Same. And I plan to upgrade to 4k over the holidays this year. The console cycle works perfectly for me.
PS4K information (~2x GPU power w/ clock+, new CPU, price, tent. Q1 2017)
- Thread starter OsirisBlack
- Start date
Same. And I plan to upgrade to 4k over the holidays this year. The console cycle works perfectly for me.
I am starting to think the same thing about my Wii U, but not my Xbox One because it still replaces my 360. With the news that NX could be coming this year, I am really not sure if I am gonna jump on the NX bandwagon day 1. No backward compatibility + no Metroid + no proper Pokemon game is a no buy for me. Will most likely wait for a Mario Kart 8 style bundle, where it will come with a game and a special controller.
RoadHazard
Gold Member
The fuck? That makes zero sense on so many levels.
You would have waited 3.5 years to even get a PS4 if you had known there would be a mid-cycle refresh? If not, what else would you have done differently?
Thinking more on this, it seems like PC players reap the biggest benefit from this type of console fragmentation.
The old "code to the metal" paradigm rings hollow now that we're in an x86 era, as the benchmarks and analysis have shown the PS4/X1 to perform within the appropriate range of its hardware.
Instead of coding and optimizing for a specific batch of specialized hardware we're seeing developers transition to scaling engines where the dev locks down the settings for a particular console spec.
What worries me more is that Sony pulled a bait and switch with respect to PSVR. The hardware in the PS4 was never able to really run the platform, judging by the commentary here, but they've always insisted the PS4 would be fine. I wouldn't really want to buy PSVR without PS4K now.
The old "code to the metal" paradigm rings hollow now that we're in an x86 era, as the benchmarks and analysis have shown the PS4/X1 to perform within the appropriate range of its hardware.
Instead of coding and optimizing for a specific batch of specialized hardware we're seeing developers transition to scaling engines where the dev locks down the settings for a particular console spec.
What worries me more is that Sony pulled a bait and switch with respect to PSVR. The hardware in the PS4 was never able to really run the platform, judging by the commentary here, but they've always insisted the PS4 would be fine. I wouldn't really want to buy PSVR without PS4K now.
A console development environment is not the same as a PC one, especially when you take into consideration that SCE and MS have first-party studios to really push their systems to the limit. Or else, we would never gotten Halo 4 (2012) or The Last of Us (2013) on 360 and PS3 respectively especially when the back-then rumored PS4 and XB1 were right around the corner. It didn't stop people from the games nor the new consoles. The devs were also very happy for the more than needed upgrade.
Kssio_Aug
Member
I think its pretty clear he meant exclusives. And I am of the same opinion as he is.
Mr. Giggles
Member
lol, I see what you're getting at but here is my rebuttal.
Did you save up to buy that ferrari and was that ferrari just released? if yes, how would you feel spending all that cash then realizing that for almost the same price you paid and despite ferrari JUST releasing the model you bought, they went and for about the same price released a much MUCH better and faster ferrari.
The car analogies don't work here, but Im trying to compare apples to apples - also there is a reason car manufacturers release on a yearly basis as opposed to months apart
Not bought one at all?
How can you feel certain about it?
Without a PS4K any exclusive title is specially designed to deliver the best performance that is possible with the PS4 hardware. You basically get a tailor-made game for this single specific SKU.
With a PS4K you still get (propably) most or all exclusive games on the PS4 as well. But the games will be designed for the PS4K so you'll get a game that is still (hopefully) running fine on PS4 but you will notice that it wasn't designed for your "old" SKU. Basically every PS4K game will underperform on your PS4 compared to the same game if it was designed for the PS4.
Mass Appeal
Member
Idk about that.
I feel like every game the ps4 sees now(exclusive and third party) will be a downgraded port of the ps4k. Compare that to now where games are actually being made for the ps4, I just don't think Developers will put as much time into ps4 games like they do now.
I mean what's the point if you can just make games that run better on the other system and port them down. You will always be playing a port of a game optimized for a better system.
Opus Angelorum
Member
I'll take 1080 / 60 over 4K / 30 all day.
Nuno Pinto
Member
Unfortunately, things aren't that simple.
Other users already expressed their concerns about this, especially with companies that even with only one PS4 in the market already suck with the optimization. If they start targeting their games to PS4K... things won't be pretty in PS4.
Anyway, in my case I just have to wait and see how the games that I'm interested in will be affected. If they still maintain 1080p and ~30fps without sacrificing the game vision then fine by me.
Wrong. The PSVR made with the PS4 in mind. There's nothing that will change that.
"I will miss out on PS4 exclusives because 3,5 years later a new SKU will arive"
Like this?
Angelus Errare
Banned
PS4 wasn't "JUST" released. It came out in 2013, we're nearing year 3.
For some console ports this might in some instances be true, but most not because you can throw all the left over power at IQ as well. As just one example of how lower power PC's doesn't hold back PC games; it took everyone a decade's worth of PC upgrades to run MSFS at full graphical fidelity.. And good luck trying to run Arma III maxed out..
Who said they will? In fact PC gaming has the most to get out of this situation as there will always be a decent enough console not to hinder next gen PC development.
Its console users that get shafted.
TheSlySoul
Member
I kind of want to flip my current set-up and get money for a new PC, but I do not want to be brash. I mostly been playing 3DS and PS Vita now honestly.
That's for sure it doesn't include First-party games. Even Batman Arkham Knight was 1:1 compared to its final release on PS4 (and PC).
Haha these posts are hilarious? I mean seriously?
Mr. Giggles
Member
Relax, he tried to "gotcha" me with a crap analogy about cars and I tried to meet him on his level.
While the PS4 wasn't released months ago, but in terms of console life cycles its still very early - that was my point.
not everyone buys launch day, some people will wait or save up until its the appropriate time to do so, that was my point.
According to rumors, games will still work on PS4 and PS4K. People are getting all frustrated that the PS4 would get the "gimped" version. Ever think that the PS4K will get the "enhanced" version instead? Developers know that there is a massive user base for the PS4 and it wouldn't surprise me if they optimize for the PS4 then port the games to the PS4K and crank up a few settings. That process is easier than starting with a game optimized for better hardware and then optimizing for worse hardware. Seems like some people are getting bitter that there will be a better version of a game that they won't have and don't want to give others the opportunity to experience the higher graphics fidelity and performance if they're able to acquire a PS4K. Sort of selfish if you ask me.
Those games that are exclusive to the PS4K - ever think that they wouldn't be possible on the PS4 without some huge sacrifices that would cause developers to not want to release their games in the state they would be on it? Contrary to belief, some developers still consider the games they make to be a work of art and not just a piece of entertainment they can make money off of.
I'm a launch PS4 owner and will be getting the PS4K day one if these rumors are true. In no way do I feel cheated and am excited for new tech to be released.
Those games that are exclusive to the PS4K - ever think that they wouldn't be possible on the PS4 without some huge sacrifices that would cause developers to not want to release their games in the state they would be on it? Contrary to belief, some developers still consider the games they make to be a work of art and not just a piece of entertainment they can make money off of.
I'm a launch PS4 owner and will be getting the PS4K day one if these rumors are true. In no way do I feel cheated and am excited for new tech to be released.
Like we do now from PC versions?
That's what I'm not understanding about the argument, this gen more than others before, the console versions are purely the pc one "downgraded" (or optimized if you wish).
The only question is if developers will spend the time to make this process good to everyone. I don't see any (smart) developer choosing to gimp the PS4 version of the game when there would be like 50 million consoles in the market at the time the PS4K comes out. I personally see the first year of ps4k games being very similar to the ps4 one, barring resolution and some added VFX, AA and AF.
As i said in a comment yesterday, i would be more concerned about the XB1 versions of multiplatform games, than the PS4's, as the XB1 will probably be the lowest target spec.
What? It wasn't like the game can no longer be purchased after 3.5 years.
If we go by what most devs and publishers really want. We are already at mid-gen. 5 years cycle are usually preferred by 3rd Party studios/publishers.
TheSlySoul
Member
That is a valid point, unless MS announces XB1.5 then that will make a whole other mess.
Multiplats still have to run on XB1.
LordOfChaos
Member
My main problem with any of this is I don't for the life of me trust Cert to deny any game that doesn't hit 30fps on the "old" hardware. If dev targets shift and they start slipping on older hardware performance, we may see more of the issues we already do see, with sub 30fps dips, frame pacing issues, etc.
If the certification process was actually more strict, and no exclusives were allowed, this could be fine. Though we may still not see all the juice squeezed out of the 1.0s
If the certification process was actually more strict, and no exclusives were allowed, this could be fine. Though we may still not see all the juice squeezed out of the 1.0s
Neuro
Member
And this is when games actually start to take advantage of the system...There is a reason why we are see a lot of top tier games coming out this year versus Year 1 and 2. There is currently no need for another system to flood onto the market and make this system the 'inferior' one.
GAF is hilarious at times...I remember when they went ape shit crazy over steambox machines and how it was the future of gaming...I havent heard anything about those machines in terms of sales or any solid numbers or it remotely becoming the next big thing
This will not work out for the PS brand will just confuse consumers and leave people who are on the edge of picking up a VR just wait for longer till tech x price is at the sweet spot
Yeah, it does put it in a weird place right now. Unless MS go the modular route, replacing a new console every 3 years for a .5 style upgrade feels a little off. If this is all true of course...
mangochutney
Member
You could have only just bought it, though.
I support this idea, but the only people who have any right to moan are those who have just purchased and also would have been willing to wait some more and pay more to get the latest device.
Mostly if you've waited this long it will be because you're not into having the newest device around, it takes you a while to save for things and/or you wanted it to fall in price to get the best value.
If you fall into that category, you wouldn't be buying the PS4K anyway.
If you were an early adopter then you've been enjoying your console for 3 years. If you would have not purchased at launch and held out, then why would you buy the PS4K either? Just hold out because in a couple years the PS5 will be out. And why buy that, because the PS5K will be out. And so it would continue.
64bitbros
Member
What if....What if in stead of the Xbox 360 Elite.... MS had made a Xbox 365? Same console, but 2x as powerful. And the Xbox One after that would be a more powerful version of that 365? Think REALLY hard about this one. What would that have meant for the Xbox brand and its userbase/marketshare? Would people have jumped ship to the Playstation eco-system?
Guess what Sony is doing with the Ps4k? In stead of resetting the market every 5 a 6 years and hope for the best you now get a roadmap where people are locked into your eco-system with a clear upgrade path and no need to look at the competition.
Guess what Sony is doing with the Ps4k? In stead of resetting the market every 5 a 6 years and hope for the best you now get a roadmap where people are locked into your eco-system with a clear upgrade path and no need to look at the competition.
Papacheeks
Banned
What do you mean stay relevant? Sales are ALMOST AS good as the PS2 generation? Consoles are selling very well?
How would this help them stay relevant by pissing off all those millions of people who bought consoles this past year, and are going to this year?
If I look back at those 2,5 years, there simply haven't been enough games that justify early adoption. Launch line-up was meh, 2014 was shit. None of you is going to change this subjective view and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one. This gen hasn't really started yet, especially exclusives-wise.
This is what I would have done:
I would have gotten earlier into PC gaming (early 2015) to play must-haves like Witcher 3 ,MGSV and Fallout 4 .... Bloodborne is the only game I would have missed in that case. But on the other hand paying 400$ for one exclusive game is beyond insanity.
So, I'm really trying to figure out right now what games Sony will release in the next 2 years that could possibly make me want a PS4K. They better be gud. Really, really gud. Otherwise, bye bye consoles. Or hello used PS4K in 2018 + all the exclusives at sale.
I'm a gamer, but I'm also a very consumption aware person. I don't see lots of anti-upgrade Gaffers here saying "those who support this are mindless consumption sheep" either.
Krisprolls
Banned
I think outside of GAF there will be a lot less outrage.
I suspect most people won't care. But will they buy the PS4k ? I doubt it.
I have trouble understanding who'll buy that. Not kids and casual PS4 players. Not most core PS4 fans either because if they cared so much about performance they would buy a $1000 PC instead.
I'm interested but I have a hard time justifying the upgrade when every version roughly looks the same now with diminishing returns. PS4 games run very well, you don't really need more of anything, just new ideas.
So it's hard to say why you'd pay 400 again, especially since apparently old games won't get an improved version.
I suspect most people won't see a lot of difference and games will still be optimized for the base PS4.
Wait and see could be the better choice here. Let's see if it brings anything major compared to PS4.
I suspect most people won't care. But will they buy the PS4k ? I doubt it.
I have trouble understanding who'll buy that. Not kids and casual PS4 players. Not most core PS4 fans either because if they cared so much about performance they would buy a $1000 PC instead.
I'm interested but I have a hard time justifying the upgrade when every version roughly looks the same now with diminishing returns. PS4 games run very well, you don't really need more of anything, just new ideas.
So it's hard to say why you'd pay 400 again, especially since apparently old games won't get an improved version.
I suspect most people won't see a lot of difference and games will still be optimized for the base PS4.
Wait and see could be the better choice here. Let's see if it brings anything major compared to PS4.
Iztok Mravlja
Banned
This is exactly what I was afraid of, and is huge mistake in my opinion. It put me off consoles immediatelly, exclusives be damned. I don't like feeling cheated or being squeezed for money.
I understand why they want to do this, but you don't go from a 10 year generation to a 3-4 year one.
I think this will backfire, badly.
I understand why they want to do this, but you don't go from a 10 year generation to a 3-4 year one.
I think this will backfire, badly.
outunderthestars
Banned
You are confusing "expected" with "having the option"
I don't remember them being a thing. Did they ever come out officially?
Actually I believe the opposite will happen.
A parent or a mainstream gamer, wont like the fact that consoles are getting regular hardware upgrades.
A hardcore gamer can justify that much easier.
Happens all the time...if you bought a 2015 Ferrari 458, guess what happened the following model year?...Ferrari released the 488...
You could make the argument that 458 to 488 is like PS4 to PS5...but even within the 458 model run...after 2 years you got the 458 Spider, a Special Edition after 3 years, and during the 4th year you had the Speciale, and the Spider version of that...
All of which offered something over the "vanilla" 458 that early adopters would have bought in 2009...
Well, if I want to play the optimal version. It's the same as with a PC.
GlamFM
Banned
They will share the exact same architecture. It´s just about scaling stuff around. This is not 360 and PS3.
Mr. Giggles
Member
I agree.
The average console life cycle is between 5-7 years and with what you said this would place us past mid (5 year life) to early-mid (7 year life)
But I wan't you to just pause for a moment, and just think of the balance between keeping publishers/3rd parties happy and keeping consumers happy - publishers wanted a way to eat in to second hand sales (remember that?) and what happened? MS came about with their initial strategy of always online etc.
What the publishers/developers want is to receive as much profits as possible, they don't give two shits about the consumer until it hits their wallets. A generation of on disc DLC and micro-transactions show this
No one is force to upgrade to the new PS4K or XB1.5
No one is force to deal with poor 3rd Party games performances, if they can't match the quality or even the performances of 1st party titles.
No matter how you word/phrase it, the console versions of 3rd party will always be the gimped version. No question asked.
No one is force to deal with poor 3rd Party games performances, if they can't match the quality or even the performances of 1st party titles.
No matter how you word/phrase it, the console versions of 3rd party will always be the gimped version. No question asked.
MilkyJoe
Member
I see what you are getting at, but the reality is it is going to to be not far short of OG Xbox to Xbox 360 launch duration, 3 1/2 years is still a wee bit of time. And the games you play on your PS4s or Xbones are still going to be there, still going to be the same graphics, as if the new boxes never existed. Just think, when you are ready to upgrade, maybe closer to when PS5X and Xbox 2 are ready to drop, then you can pick up PS4K for dirt cheap... It's not a bad deal, really.