I think Battlefront may be using Frostbite's internal res scaling to hit 900p which makes it scale better overall. I know it looks better on my 1080p display than other 900p games in terms of clarity.
PS4K information (~2x GPU power w/ clock+, new CPU, price, tent. Q1 2017)
- Thread starter OsirisBlack
- Start date
Crimson_Gold
Member
I want it tonight. I'm serious. I want to watch UHD Blu-rays
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Ah yes, that is the case I believe as well now that you mention it. And it truly does look better than most other 900p games. I sometimes forget it is 900p unless I try really hard, or play a super crisp 1080p game like Until Dawn for days and go back, then it is slightly noticeable.
Kralamoonard
Member
Looool
Gopher, while you're here, would this theoretical new PS4 console see a separate announce leading to E3 or at the press briefing on June 14th?
Omnistalgic
Member
Yeah, its been hinted at for quite some time. Many of us were thinking along the lines when Cerny did his PS meeting speech about the architecture and following interviews.someone else read the article.
PS4's design was fantastic. And yes they will use efficiencies to reduce tdp, but only of the og model which can be $199 post 28nm. Sony will want a premium model however, and that means more power.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=749096&highlight=
The ship has probably said on this topic. Nonetheless, I have a feeling the purpose the "need for GPU power" is not vthe motivation behind this business move.
Looking at the new TV sets and new HDR feature it all kind of makes sense to me. For example, what if Sony just made a playstation that had HDMI 2.0, could read and play 4K blu-ray disc. Looking at the cost of the only blu-ray 4K HDR device from Samsung and we're talking about 400 USD. Let's say Sony sells this playstation for 450 USD. How many units would Sony have to sell to make money? Would you buy it? Probably not. Probably not high enough numbers to make money. Personally, I would not buy a 4K HDR playstation blu-ray play if the games will look exactly the same.
I see the talk of the upgrade in GPU (and CPU) as a way to add value to this unit. More importantly, a way to justify the mark up to the device and perhaps quicker to make a profit. Second, think of the number of units sold in total. Those that will buy a new 4K UHD HDR TV and have a playstation will mostly likely update their playstation. If there is a way to sell a second playstation, this is it. It's great for presenting numbers to convince developers that the playstation is where its at.
So drop in an APU with a more advanced GPU and maybe CPU and sell it for 500-600. You can buy the Samsung player for 400 or for 100 USD more get a Playstation 4 with it.
Sony tried this with the original playstation models. I can't think of anyone who cared for any of the additional features the had nothing to do with gaming besides the increased hard disk space. The advanced/premium Playstation 4 makes total sense to me from a business perspective.
Looking at the new TV sets and new HDR feature it all kind of makes sense to me. For example, what if Sony just made a playstation that had HDMI 2.0, could read and play 4K blu-ray disc. Looking at the cost of the only blu-ray 4K HDR device from Samsung and we're talking about 400 USD. Let's say Sony sells this playstation for 450 USD. How many units would Sony have to sell to make money? Would you buy it? Probably not. Probably not high enough numbers to make money. Personally, I would not buy a 4K HDR playstation blu-ray play if the games will look exactly the same.
I see the talk of the upgrade in GPU (and CPU) as a way to add value to this unit. More importantly, a way to justify the mark up to the device and perhaps quicker to make a profit. Second, think of the number of units sold in total. Those that will buy a new 4K UHD HDR TV and have a playstation will mostly likely update their playstation. If there is a way to sell a second playstation, this is it. It's great for presenting numbers to convince developers that the playstation is where its at.
So drop in an APU with a more advanced GPU and maybe CPU and sell it for 500-600. You can buy the Samsung player for 400 or for 100 USD more get a Playstation 4 with it.
Sony tried this with the original playstation models. I can't think of anyone who cared for any of the additional features the had nothing to do with gaming besides the increased hard disk space. The advanced/premium Playstation 4 makes total sense to me from a business perspective.
Kralamoonard
Member
Yo, you should honestly contact a mod about getting a perm junior back then for something so trivial.
I got stump to unjunior me in a OT thread (because I had been banned for 3 months and I think juniored for another 3 as I had created a duplicate thread), so you should honestly contact him as well as he'll get rid of it for sure.
I mean 5 years is more than enough lol for something that wasn't even junior worthy to begin with and that turned out to be true.
I say this because you're posts are interesting and I enjoy reading them; seeing threads like that would be more welcome.
Yup that was the big deal with the PS3. Back then blu ray players were about the same price as a PS3. It would have made more sense to just get a PS3 to watch blu ray and look at it being able to play games as an added bonus.
One thing that caught me off guard with the PS3 was it was able to playback 3D Movies with a firmware update. (again, IIRC)
Which is wild because Sony made no hints about Vue (IIRC) while MS went all in on TV TV TV. Then it seemed like out of no where...Sony is going to compete with cable companies offering channels.
One thing you can say...Sony are some sneaky SOBs. lol.
Well played Sony, well played.
Crimson_Gold
Member
So the PS4 announcement all over again. Hot damn. This generation is something. I'll give credit to Kaz and PlayStation leadership. They won't let the 360 situation happen again
MatrixMan.EXE
Member
2 x GPU is not a big bump. Especially if that CPU is still there acting a bottleneck, which is still up in the air.
potatohead
Member
The hunger is real.
I'm just glad today's PlayStation/SCE/SIE is not forgetting it.
gundamkyoukai
Member
More rush how ?
By the time the PS4k user base get that big if it ever get that big .
Devs will know the in and out of PS4 , in fact i sure some devs already know .
Also a lot of of users are going to blame PS4k when PS4 ports get worst .
When this would have happen with or with out PS4k.
Last gen is a perfect eg of this late in the cycle.
In regards to the GPU upgrade and 4K I don't really see a problem. The GPU does not need to run 4K native games, it just needs enough processing power to make the games look better at 4K. I'm thinking run higher resolution textures, better effects, etc... Anything that adds detail over the 1080P version. .
It's all in the messaging. It's amazing how Sony learned from ALL of their mistakes regarding the PS3. MS made the biggest mistake in how they revealed the Xbox One and their early policies didn't help either. While the messaging with PS4 hasn't changed all that much it's clear they are moving into other avenues with Vue.
Ok, I have changed my mind...kind of.
If PS4K is released fall 2017, I'm ok, coz that would be a 4 year cycle.
If it comes out this year, I will still buy it in late 2017 or later.
But Sony needs to really really deliver on the exclusives front, because I'm planning to get all multiplats on PC and exclusives are the only pro console argument left for me.
PS4K is competing against a GPU upgrade next year, so dear Sony you have a lot of hard work ahead of you...marketing slogans alone won't cut it for me. If the PSK doesn't include "greatness" at launch I'm done with consoles alltogether.
Issue solved.
If PS4K is released fall 2017, I'm ok, coz that would be a 4 year cycle.
If it comes out this year, I will still buy it in late 2017 or later.
But Sony needs to really really deliver on the exclusives front, because I'm planning to get all multiplats on PC and exclusives are the only pro console argument left for me.
PS4K is competing against a GPU upgrade next year, so dear Sony you have a lot of hard work ahead of you...marketing slogans alone won't cut it for me. If the PSK doesn't include "greatness" at launch I'm done with consoles alltogether.
Issue solved.
mejin
Member
Which smartv did you get?
Interesting how much more positive posters like Nullpointer sounded in that thread. [not calling him out for any particular reason except he is a really good rational poster that I like]
I wouldn't hold my breath. I love Shu, but his management of wws wasn't great and it will take a few years to see what Layden will bring.
pixellated_man
Member
Excellent post.
Look people, Xbox 1.5 is happening regardless of what Sony do and everything you are afraid of now , like ps4 no longer getting as much love from developers, you no longer getting the best version of a game etc. you will still be fretting over without the existence of a ps4k.
And you know what? A lot of you will buy Microsoft's box to play the best versions of your favourite multiplats and the rest will be cheering Sony on for a more powerful ps4.
wapplew
Member
Doesn't explain 2x GPU power thou. Why not skip that and keep the price low.
I think $299-349 4K output PS4 will be more attractive than $399-499 PS4K for average custermer.
gundamkyoukai
Member
Yes because it's not that much more powerful and they are not going force pubs.
Going from 30fps to 60fps eats up all that power .
Going from 900p to 1080p with some added effects will also do that .
did you miss phil's "no x1.5" announcement?
Crimson_Gold
Member
We can't just flip a switch.
Kinect will never not be sold with XBO.
The company track record causes this statement to be viewed with great doubt
JumPeRJumPzZ
Banned
Yup. Its just PR talk... i can already see them announcing a new Xbox as soon as Sony announced their PS4k.
XboxOne would end up being even worse than before Hardware wise.
Battlefield 5 in 1080p or 720p? yeah
I'm probably super late on saying this, but my big worry is that considering the extent to which companies have been willing compromise performance in favor of visuals, what's to stop them from just doing the same thing with the ps4k and leaving the ps4 versions in a state that would be borderline unacceptable? I'm thinking worst case scenarios here, but I really don't want Hyrule Warriors Legends to become the norm.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
I got the 49" X830C, only because they had an 'open box' when I walked in to purchase the W800C (1080p) set for $700 as a hold over until OLED gets more players from Sony or Samsung to drive prices down in hopefully a year or two. I wanted a larger display for when UC4 hits (been gaming on a 1080p 27" IPS monitor for the PC/PS3/4).
But as the salesperson was heading to the back to get one, he noticed I was watching a PS4 stream on the X830C. He then said, "we have an open box, but the TV was never taken out, it was opened to give the guy screws for the base stand that his internet ordered one did not come with. We have let you have this for $600." (it retails for $900 and change).
It was a no brainer decision. 4K set, 120hz, X1 scaler, IPS (while not as deep blacks as VA, I am used to them from PC for better viewing angles), and perfect 4:4:4 Chroma 4K @ 60Hz for PC input, brand new for $600?, less than the 60hz 1080p set? Uh, YES! And they even discounted the extended warranty to be $40 less too. (Florida is the lightning capital of the world, while I never had an issue, better safe than sorry.)
I also lucked out, because I guess they gave him the stand brackets that screw to the TV and stand as well (the screw bag was taped to it), so I did not need the screws from Home Depot, they opened another box the next day and gave me the screws and brackets since it was mislabeled, and will correctly label the new open box so it isn't an endless cycle, lol.
All I got to say, Daredevil in 4K on Netflix... BRUHHHH!!!! (Just wish they did not have that silly noise filter, I get they wanted to add style, but the already crystal sharp bricks in the distance could be even sharper, lol) I will say though, make-up artists will have to be good as fuck going forward with 4K... you can spot all the imperfections and the makeup lines in the neck when not blended properly.
The GPU doesn't need to run 4K native games. It just needs to be powerful enough to make them look better. As long as there is a noticeable difference so consumers perceive a value with the device. Second, why would Sony sell an updated 4K HDR HDMI 2.0 PS4 (without the GPU/CPU upgrade) for anything less than 400 USD? Samsung's 4K HDR player is 400 USD. Why should Sony lose money by under cutting? How do you estimate Sony's cost to re-design and produce this playstation and determine selling it for 300-350?
cHaOs667
Member
Maybe i did not get the statement right but you can already purchase Kinect without an XB1... just look into the official Microsoft stores.
Crimson_Gold
Member
I know. I'm quoting statements the company has made in the past and how they've switched their stances. I take nothing they say seriously. This is a business.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Yup. Its just PR talk... i can already see them announcing a new Xbox as soon as Sony announced their PS4k.
XboxOne would end up being even worse than before Hardware wise.
Battlefield 5 in 1080p or 720p? yeah
Yep... read between the lines as well. It is 'PR Talk' because of their technical decisions with the Xbox One (shortcomings to not be able to do the leap until HDM or the like is console affordable, hence why he also said, "we are looking and bigger jumps"... it is because they have not choice to.)...
CosmicQueso
Member
Why keep the price low?
The early adopter set doesn't care about price. At all. They want the latest and greatest and will pay for it.
You're talking as if they want to go full mass market day 1. Why would they want to do that?
The goal is to get early adopters at the highest price possible, then the next customer segment at the highest price possible, then the mass market at the highest price possible and then the laggards at the highest price possible. Each step is a lower price tier.
But why sell to the early adopters at a discount? Theres absolutely zero benefit in doing that.
On a side note...I've used the Poker analogy quite a few times.
This round could really get expensive for Sony.
What if MS releases
a) a Xbox1.5 with the same specs BUT Spencer is allowed to open the warchest to subsidize the new console to undercut Sony in price or
b) it's more powerful but the price will be same as PS4K
So, in this scenario Sony then will have released a console that won't increase the console market but put them back into a position where hardware is not sold at profit at launch.
No matter how long this discussion will go on, but imo this is a plan with some serious risks on Sony's side.
This round could really get expensive for Sony.
What if MS releases
a) a Xbox1.5 with the same specs BUT Spencer is allowed to open the warchest to subsidize the new console to undercut Sony in price or
b) it's more powerful but the price will be same as PS4K
So, in this scenario Sony then will have released a console that won't increase the console market but put them back into a position where hardware is not sold at profit at launch.
No matter how long this discussion will go on, but imo this is a plan with some serious risks on Sony's side.
Bitch Pudding
Member
Yeah, presented with one of MS' classic PR spins: "It has more than twice the power of the old one so we called it XBOX Two..."
I understand that some people are excited about the possibility of ps4k/nextbox. But there's some really extreme expectations in this thread.
Amd will be releasing 14nm products soon, but we don't have anything beyond samples yet, right? Besides, you can't get twice the power, half the size, and half the tdp with a shrink to 14nm. You can either cut the die size roughly in half (which cuts the tpd), or you can use the same die size and double the circuitry. Not both at once. And wasn't one of the problems with the esram that is wasn't particularly easy to shrink?
We've had 14nm processes for a while, we know what to expect from it, both in performance and pricing. I get the excitement, but we really don't need to head down the road toward mr.x level crap again.
Amd will be releasing 14nm products soon, but we don't have anything beyond samples yet, right? Besides, you can't get twice the power, half the size, and half the tdp with a shrink to 14nm. You can either cut the die size roughly in half (which cuts the tpd), or you can use the same die size and double the circuitry. Not both at once. And wasn't one of the problems with the esram that is wasn't particularly easy to shrink?
We've had 14nm processes for a while, we know what to expect from it, both in performance and pricing. I get the excitement, but we really don't need to head down the road toward mr.x level crap again.
vpance
Member
They will do both if what Boogz is saying is true.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
There is no more 'warchest' to sell at a loss with the new direction the CEO is taking with the company. They cannot same spec it because of the ESRAM issue. They are forced to wait for HBM to be mainstream enough for consoles, hence his PR talk. But by that time, it may be too late, and we will just get the Win10 hybrid machines onQ and others have been talking about. Which again, still fits his PR of 'no 1.5'.
It was a win/win PR quote based on their technical bottlenecks at this point.
Sony is in the driver seat with market and mindshare, etc., much like they were with the PS2. It is them who will make or break this, and I do not think MSFT has any relevance on this outcome for Sony at this point in time for this 'gen'.
Yep this is why Sony entered into the console business in the 1st place to get their store front on your TV & MS entered to stop them because it was a threat to home PCs if people start just using the TV to do all the internet stuff that they used to buy computers for. While Sony & MS was fighting over the TV Google & Apple took over the world with smartphones & tablets then Amazon came in the picture.
I knew what was happening but I'm still surprised that Sony is in such a good position right now with this & think only Amazon , Google or Apple can somehow stop them. Netflix can also pull a move that alter PlayStation TV take over by getting live TV streaming.
Why would they leave out 4K gaming on a 4K console?
David Ricardo
Member
Well, if they want to sell PS4s that support 4k tv, 4k video streaming, 4k blu-rays, etc... The cheaper they make them, the more they will sell.
The only reason I see for Sony to release this 2xGPU PS4 that is 200$ more expensive is because they need that power for something, and that something is VR. 2xPS4 GPU is what oculus games require to work. So a PS4.5 with that performance could receive ports of all the VR games made for Oculus that the PS4 just can't run at all.
4k video is just the icing on the cake. This is about VR. But they are never going to say that to their customers because then they wouldn't buy VR for the PS4 if they feel like they are going to have to also buy a PS4k to have a non fisher price VR experience.
CamelCloud
Member
Has to be at least 3x as powerful as the PS4, disappointing.
gundamkyoukai
Member
Sony already has the PS4 which they are going to sell for cheap .
They are going to want to make profit off this new hardware .
Double the power is a way to do that .
This is not about only VR , this about everything Sony does from hardware , media and software .
There are not a huge amount of people will 4k sets that you want to go for mass market price right away .
Plus adding more power makes more people want to upgrade even if they don't care about 4k or VR .
Or 4k on PC, yeah,Yup. Its just PR talk... i can already see them announcing a new Xbox as soon as Sony announced their PS4k.
XboxOne would end up being even worse than before Hardware wise.
Battlefield 5 in 1080p or 720p? yeah
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Agreed. I remember messing with the Sony/MSFT partnered WebTV thing at a Tweeter Store (think they closed down now) back just before the PS2 came out.
Then the PS2 came out, Sony ended the WebTV partnership with MSFT, and two years later, low and behold, we get the Xbox.
Some are just too young to remember the details. Good new is for gamers, is these 'Trojan Horses' built up the gaming business to what it is today since they had to with the telecom monopolies over the past several decades, and now company's cultures are a part of it, so they are never going to go away, just co-exist and evolve as a service platform.
If TV took off faster than the game growth, the console industry would have collapsed by their own accord.
4 times, so they can do the true
game
Or 4k on PC, yeah,
There is always one.
OsirisBlack
Banned
That is not at all what Phil Spencer said read the article not the title which is very misleading. Anyone that believes MS isn't working on something very similar is not paying attention. The only things you can take from that article when actually reading it is that if they are working on something it definitely wont be called the Xbox 1.5 and that it would be more powerful than a smaller incremental upgrade. I personally want to see which of the big 3 announce something first.
well they post less slightly negative things on the twitter and message boards as they hand over their cash
Something about your response sounds reasonable to me, but then again, this is MS we're talking about.
Would you agree with me that given PS4K really happens, will MS "call","raise" or "pass".
With "passing" I'm talking about lowering hardware commitment or pulling out of hardware business (licensing "Xbox" to hardware manufacturers = steam machine)
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
Once again. It would be pointless for Sony to release an updated PS4 without a significant bump in performance. Simply having a PS4 capable of UHD bluray playback would not be enough.
So xbox4k it is.