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[Admiral Woofington]

If this is marketed as a slimmer/newer model... like a hardware refresh and is priced at $399. with the PS4 being $299, then I see a lot of people upgrading... At $499 I don't see it getting much transaction.

With the Elite 360 model, HDMI and wireless were built it. Though all other hardware remained and performed the same.. The marketing and pricing of the PS4K will be essential. Needs to be sold as premium PS4, rather than updated specs I think

But that'd be basically a lie though. Elite 360 included accessories and plug ins for them. So it could be sold as a deluxe model.

Marketing could go that way but when certain developers start saying "game runs at 1080p and 60fps on ps4*

*IQ and frame rate based off ps4k.

On the standard ps4 it runs at 900p and 30 fps"

Or something to that note it'll be an issue.


Though as long as they automatically make the game recognize the console and not have people choose a settings in option for ps4k it might not ever become a massive issue.

 

[geordiemp]

Though as long as they automatically make the game recognize the console and not have people choose a settings in option for ps4k it might not ever become a massive issue.

I could imagine thats a big job, they would have to check every single game on Ps4K and release a patch setting for each and every game. Interesting times for sure.

 

[family_guy]

TV upscalers are usually shit and add latency, so I'd hope the PS4 upscales the image itself.
As for why I'm guessing that OG PS4 games will drop resolution, is that as the PS4K will raise the bar on graphics I'm guessing that they'll try to keep as much of those as possible in PS4, though I suppose just lower graphics settings is just as possible. idk

That's not completely true. Depends on the model. If you're using budget TVs as a reference, then yeah it's not as good.

 

[MogCakes]

Whole lotta powerlust for this thing. Will be hilarious if it's $599 and people eat it up in stark contrast to the ps3.

 

[Xander Crews]

No same laser but needs a firmware update.

Sony employees (3 different people) say in 2013: 1) The PS4 can support 4K media, 2) The PS4 has a HDMI 2 port, 3) The PS4 hardware is feature proved to support many new coming features.

Based on your posts, it's pretty clear the PS4 has the capability to support 4k media and playback, but I wonder if they will make that exclusive to the new model to give it more distinct reason to exist and to justify a price point.

They never sold the PS4 as a 4k capable machine, so it's not like they are taking away from the system we purchased or going back on any promises, so I could see them making 4k exclusive to the new model. It makes sense from a marketing and sales position. Even more so if they call it the PS4k.

 

[SmiteOfHand]

Whole lotta powerlust for this thing. Will be hilarious if it's $599 and people eat it up in stark contrast to the ps3.

I could see that happen if only because there could be a $300~ model also available. Sticker shock reduces a lot when there are options.

 

[Ragona]

I can understand the psychological effect of suddenly not having the most powerful hardware on the market anymore, when (if) the PS4k comes out, but I dont see why people would be afraid of being treated like 2nd class citizens.
If anything, the past has shown that Publishers and devs prefer to stay where the money is at for as long as possible, and that is where the biggest and most active install base is at. For almost a decade now, PC players know that feeling and complain about how much 'outdated console hardware is holding the PC back'.

I think the same thing is gonna apply to whatever a possible PS4k is gonna be:
Sure, maybe some (maybe even most) games will run with better fps, more AA or some added effects, but no way in hell is it gonna be a day and night difference, caus thats the last thing publishers want aslong as the biggest install base is on the lower specced console.
(We have seen in the past how Publishers and devs artifically hold PC versions back to not look drastically better than the console counterpart, even if denied)
I think It's gonna be a proper entusiast version of the current console with beefier hardware and VR advantages to keep selling hardware and I can only hope, that they get the message right.

(Not a native speaker, so excuse possible mistakes)

 

[boredandlazy]

I could see that happen if only because there could be a $300~ model also available. Sticker shock reduces a lot when there are options.

Because people always remember the initial price of the PS3 as $499 don't they?

 

[MR ARCADE FOREVER]

The sentence along with this gif is soooo funny.

Hahaha yes indeed!

 

[Boke1879]

Damn checking out prices of 4k tvs at best buy and these things really aren't all that expensive.

 

[CosmicQueso]

Damn checking out prices of 4k tvs at best buy and these things really aren't all that expensive.

Give them another 6 months and the prices should come down to where it'd be silly to not buy a 4K capable TV, if you're in the TV buying market.

 

[Boke1879]

Give them another 6 months and the prices should come down to where it'd be silly to not buy a 4K capable TV, if you're in the TV buying market.

I'm definitely in the market for a new TV around the holidays. So the timeline is perfect. If PS4k launches this year I can definitely see myself getting a new 4k capable tv as well.

 

[Souldestroyer Reborn]

Based on your posts, it's pretty clear the PS4 has the capability to support 4k media and playback, but I wonder if they will make that exclusive to the new model to give it more distinct reason to exist and to justify a price point.

They never sold the PS4 as a 4k capable machine, so it's not like they are taking away from the system we purchased or going back on any promises, so I could see them making 4k exclusive to the new model. It makes sense from a marketing and sales position. Even more so if they call it the PS4k.

I'm sure that when the PS4 was announced that they were touting 4K capable comments around.

I'm not 100% but I'm pretty confident.

 

[MogCakes]

I could see that happen if only because there could be a $300~ model also available. Sticker shock reduces a lot when there are options.

Lol that pic. It could work in their favor, by boosting OG unit sales once people see the price of the 4K. The problem with the PS3 was there were cheaper SKUs than the $599, but people remember that the most vividly.

 

[Prisoner KSC2-303]

I'm sure that when the PS4 was announced that they were touting 4K capable comments around.

I'm not 100% but I'm pretty confident.

Yep, I seem to recall something along those lines. However, 4k capable was a term often touted, and deliberately vague for many reasons, in part because the road to agreeing UHD BD standards hasn't exactly been smooth. Just look at how many 4k TVs have muddied the waters by launching early, claiming 4k compatibility (which is technically still true), but lacking HDR capability.

Right now, I'm leaning towards this refresh being a PS4 specifically aimed at 4k TV owners, maybe with Sony's dedicated line up of players coming later in the year (conspicuously absent from CES) and the PS4k to arrive in early 2017 as a bargain player / console hybrid. I'm certainly not expecting any PS4k exclusives.

 

[Daffy Duck]

I'm sure that when the PS4 was announced that they were touting 4K capable comments around.

I'm not 100% but I'm pretty confident.

They did say 4K videos and photos would be playable on the PS4.

 

[Dreathlock]

Imagine they add something like "Sony Freesync" which only works with Sony (4K) TV´s.
Games could hover at 40-50 fps and be silky smooth.

Not impossible. This would boost sonys tv market significantly.

 

[SmiteOfHand]

Because people always remember the initial price of the PS3 as $499 don't they?

It could go either way, it depends on Sony's messaging and what the PS4K actually is. There were a lot of factors that went into five hundred and ninety nine us dollars. Saying I could see it happen doesn't preclude other possibilities.

 

[kabel]

I could see that happen if only because there could be a $300~ model also available. Sticker shock reduces a lot when there are options.

I don't know how its outside of Germany but you can get a PS4 here for 299€ already.

And it's not just flash sales.
Since last december you could always buy a standard PS4 500GB for 299€-320€.

Sony just needs to make the 299€ the official pricepoint and then they can launch the PS4K at like 450-499€. Console casuals and enthusiasts would be covered.

 

[Muzicfreq]

People weren't reading into subtext or using a crystal ball. It is called experience and intuition. When Mark Cerny got on the stage and announced they were switching to x64 architecture anyone who knows anything about systems architecture saw this possibility a mile away.

Didn't know architecture types were what determined the path of how hardware is supposed to be.

 

[Crimson_Gold]

Didn't know architecture types were what determined the path of how hardware is supposed to be.

The architecture lends to easier upgrade paths that do not preclude BC. The PlayStation meeting included discussion of PlayStation as a platform. They even discussed playing PlayStation games on things other than a PlayStation. You now see PS Now on TVs. PlayStation hardware, starting with the ps4, was never meant to adhere to the traditional console hardware path

 

[Aisen]

I kinda wonder if a new revision will also add some of the PSVR breakout box capabilities just to lessen the amount of cables and setup you have to do. Would be nice bonus to be able to just plug the PSVR directly into the PS4K.

 

[CosmicQueso]

I kinda wonder if a new revision will also add some of the PSVR breakout box capabilities just to lessen the amount of cables and setup you have to do. Would be nice bonus to be able to just plug the PSVR directly into the PS4K.

People keep saying that this is impossible, but it makes complete sense to try and make happen.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

I kinda wonder if a new revision will also add some of the PSVR breakout box capabilities just to lessen the amount of cables and setup you have to do. Would be nice bonus to be able to just plug the PSVR directly into the PS4K.

I'm sure its possible, but I don't think they will as the PS4K is said to be twice has powerful and smaller. The chips in that breakout box are substantial enough to require a fan a 36W rated power supply. That's quite a chunk of a 120-150W box.

 

[Muzicfreq]

The architecture lends to easier upgrade paths that do not preclude BC. The PlayStation meeting included discussion of PlayStation as a platform. They even discussed playing PlayStation games on things other than a PlayStation. You now see PS Now on TVs. PlayStation hardware, starting with the ps4, was never meant to adhere to the traditional console hardware path

Easier upgrade paths that can make backwards compatibility and compatibility between things easier. Also software development more streamlined rather than devs struggling on using strange hardware types.

Means nothing to when new consoles come out though. The 2 are separate.

 

[SmiteOfHand]

The architecture lends to easier upgrade paths that do not preclude BC. The PlayStation meeting included discussion of PlayStation as a platform. They even discussed playing PlayStation games on things other than a PlayStation. You now see PS Now on TVs. PlayStation hardware, starting with the ps4, was never meant to adhere to the traditional console hardware path

And to be clear, it isn't like the Cell architecture was incapable of incremental upgrades, just that it would require significant investment, many times over what we are looking at here. Not to mention other problems they would need to overcome, such as Cell not being adopted well.

This is also why I have been overall positive on remasters even though people like to shit on them, and I get why - content droughts are totally a thing, but the more stuff that gets ported to PS4 the more likely it will be available in perpetuity. You really want Demon's Souls to be entirely tied to Cell forever?

 

[dc89]

I'm in at the right price with a nice trade in deal.

 

[Crimson_Gold]

Easier upgrade paths that can make backwards compatibility and compatibility between things easier. Also software development more streamlined rather than devs struggling on using strange hardware types.

Means nothing to when new consoles come out though. The 2 are separate.

The point was to have software developed in a manner that would allow it to be used on separate hardware. You want an ecosystem that is easy to develop for. The various consoles offer access to that ecosystem at various performance points. I don't see why this is hard to understand

 

[GamerMax73]

And to be clear, it isn't like the Cell architecture was incapable of incremental upgrades, just that it would require significant investment, many times over what we are looking at here. Not to mention other problems they would need to overcome, such as Cell not being adopted well.

Yeah, I was going to say something similar.

The choice of x86 or ARM comes down to how widely they have been adopted in the marketplace. There's nothing exotic about some of the other architectures, especially not PowerPC.

What Sony, and Microsoft, have gained in adopting x86 (and ARM would have given this as well) is the ability to leverage the R&D AMD are already doing anyway for the wider PC market. That reduces development costs for Sony and speeds up the rate of change.

It's the later point which really makes the iterative console model possible and why some of us second guessed it when PS4 was launched and think it's the likely direction this rumour is now pointing us in.

Apple pretty much made the same decision for the same reasons a decade ago for the Macintosh.

 

[Muzicfreq]

The point was to have software developed in a manner that would allow it to be used on separate hardware. You want an ecosystem that is easy to develop for. The various consoles offer access to that ecosystem at various performance points. I don't see why this is hard to understand

Sorry, I just don't make connections like this then claim it to be true. Must be that I only have Foil Hat1.0 I need Foil Hat 1.5

 

[scorcher59]

Welp! so much for getting the most out of the PS4 hardware now that they've thrown it under the bus big time!

 

[Crimson_Gold]

Sorry, I just don't make connections like this then claim it to be true. Must be that I only have Foil Hat1.0 I need Foil Hat 1.5

The snark is not needed. The industry supports x86 in a way that allows this type of development and advancement. This was a logical progression for the industry as it hopes to avoid resets of user bases and development tools.

Welp! so much for getting the most out of the PS4 hardware now that they've thrown it under the bus big time!

Why can't devs put as much into the ps4 version as possible and then build the PS4k version from there?

 

[jelly]

I wonder if they'll use the same PS4 case and the normal PS4 gets a slim case. How confusing, maybe not.

 

[Boke1879]

The snark is not needed. The industry supports x86 in a way that allows this type of development and advancement. This was a logical progression for the industry as it hopes to avoid resets of user bases and development tools.



Why can't devs out as much info the ps4 version as possible and then build the PS4k version from there?

Because some people can do nothing but spout hyperbole.

 

[Epix]

Is it really looking like Q1 2017? I was planning to get a PS4 with UC4 in a few weeks, but obviously with this information I can't really make that purchase. Do I really have to sit on this for a year?

 

[FrozenCell]

Welp! so much for getting the most out of the PS4 hardware now that they've thrown it under the bus big time!

kinda like iPad Air 2 owners feel about the new 9.7" iPad Pro which just came out with a faster SoC at $200 higher pricepoint

 

[sandkiller]

Not sure if it has been mentioned before but can someone clarify if there's a difference between being able to play digital / stream 4k content vs play 4k / uhd discs?

I.e. would it be possible for ps4 to play digital content in 4k format such as netflix 4k which would be enabled in firmware vs not being able to play uhd discs due to the hardware (ie drive)?

 

[SmiteOfHand]

Yeah, I was going to say something similar.

The choice of x86 or ARM comes down to how widely they have been adopted in the marketplace. There's nothing exotic about some of the other architectures, especially not PowerPC.

What Sony, and Microsoft, have gained in adopting x86 (and ARM would have given this as well) is the ability to leverage the R&D AMD are already doing anyway for the wider PC market. That reduces development costs for Sony and speeds up the rate of change.

It's the later point which really makes the iterative console model possible and why some of us second guessed it when PS4 was launched and think it's the likely direction this rumour is now pointing us in.

Apple pretty much made the same decision for the same reasons a decade ago for the Macintosh.

Well said, agreed. It is kind of bittersweet that we are essentially down to 2 major players here (x86 and ARM), but I can hardly blame massive world wide companies like Sony or Microsoft for making decisions like this.

One thing I have learned when it comes to technology is from the outside people rarely understand and appreciate the realities of R&D in terms of importance and cost.

 

[AndyD]

I kinda wonder if a new revision will also add some of the PSVR breakout box capabilities just to lessen the amount of cables and setup you have to do. Would be nice bonus to be able to just plug the PSVR directly into the PS4K.

That might raise the costs unnecessarily for those not going for VR though.

 

[Comfort Jones]

Welp! so much for getting the most out of the PS4 hardware now that they've thrown it under the bus big time!

Yeah pretty much. As a pc focused gamer I wasn't getting much use out of it to begin with so this honestly kinda turns me off on doing much more with it.

I would say I'd like to trade it in but lol I have PT on it so......yeeeeaah.

 

[jeff_rigby]

I'm sure its possible, but I don't think they will as the PS4K is said to be twice has powerful and smaller. The chips in that breakout box are substantial enough to require a fan a 36W rated power supply. That's quite a chunk of a 120-150W box.

Must be the Goggles and power supply for the Goggles. All video processing occurs in the PS4 and exits via a HDMI 2 port. A HDMI 2 can have two separate video streams similar to a Display port but a breakout box is needed to separate. the two streams. This is all explained here.
.

Sony wants to use the VR Goggles and breakout box with other platforms like PCs. For that reason I don't think any VR goggles will ship without it and no PS4 will include a breakout box internally.

The two video streams coming out of the PS4 HDMI 2 port is another point confirming it has a HDMI 2 port.

 

[QuickSilverD]

People keep saying that this is impossible, but it makes complete sense to try and make happen.

No, it doesn't. PSVR already comes packaged with it, I doubt that little box adds more than 20 usd to the manufacturing cost, so no point in removing it and create even more confusion

 

[TheLegendOfMart]

Not sure if it has been mentioned before but can someone clarify if there's a difference between being able to play digital / stream 4k content vs play 4k / uhd discs?

I.e. would it be possible for ps4 to play digital content in 4k format such as netflix 4k which would be enabled in firmware vs not being able to play uhd discs due to the hardware (ie drive)?

Nope. 4K streaming requires HDCP 2.2 and firmware upgrades can't patch in HDCP 2.2, it either supports it or it doesn't. It's possible there could be a revision of OG PS4 with HDMI 2.0 and HDCP 2.2 if Sony wants a cheaper 4K trojan horse.

 

[wapplew]

Welp! so much for getting the most out of the PS4 hardware now that they've thrown it under the bus big time!

The opposite will be more likely to happen. You got 40m install base as your protection, PS4K got zero, it will be the machine that under the bus.

 

[Mushroom021]

Must be the Goggles and power supply for the Goggles. All video processing occurs in the PS4 and exits via a HDMI 2 port. A HDMI 2 can have two separate video streams similar to a Display port but a breakout box is needed to separate. the two streams. This is all explained here.
.

Sony wants to use the VR Goggles and breakout box with other platforms like PCs. For that reason I don't think any VR goggles will ship without it and no PS4 will include a breakout box internally.

The two video streams coming out of the PS4 HDMI 2 port is another point confirming it has a HDMI 2 port.

Agreed, I don't see why the breakout box would go internal... what sense would that make? That would likely be saved for a revision of some sort. The idea of the headset going to PC tells me sony is all in on VR, the 4k further echos that.

 

[Markoman]

Options are good.
So when we are at it, give me a PS4K digital only machine for 350$, and since you want me in your ecosystem tell me where I can send in my old PS4. I think 150$ should cover the difference. Deal? Deal.
Thank you Sony.

Edit: I'm going to keep my old controler.

 

[TheLegendOfMart]

The opposite will be more likely to happen. You got 40m install base as your protection, PS4K got zero, it will be the machine that under the bus.

That's no protection at all. If people accept the PS4K then people will also accept worse performing PS4 games, it already can't run 1080p30 consistently as it is.

It doesn't make sense that Sony would spend millions R&D a PS4K and then let devs ignore it. I can't imagine many first party studio games wont have PS4K lead platform.

 

[PodcastFips]

Imagine they add something like "Sony Freesync" which only works with Sony (4K) TV´s.
Games could hover at 40-50 fps and be silky smooth.

Not impossible. This would boost sonys tv market significantly.

...huh?

 

[TheLegendOfMart]

The reason games are capped at 30 and 60fps is that most TVs refresh at 60Hz or multiples thereof which means games look relatively smooth.

If games run at FPS outside of those refresh rates you get stuttering and if you disable vsync you get screen tearing.

Freesync means that the TV will refresh at the output rate of the device connected to it to get silky smooth framerate without screen tearing regardless of framerate.

I doubt Sony would go that far, there really would be a shitstorm.

 

[JP]

https://www.playstation.com/en-us/e.../pulse-elite-edition-wireless-stereo-headset/
https://www.playstation.com/en-us/explore/accessories/audio/gold-wireless-stereo-headset/
https://www.playstation.com/en-us/explore/accessories/audio/silver-wired-stereo-headset/

All of them support 7.1 virtual surround. There's even a wired version, although that doesn't matter. As long as wireless bandwidth is enough, they can transmit even lossless audio.

Mock multi channel audio is not positional audio.

Positional audio is an end to end process that requires two very particular microphones that mimic the way sound moves around out inner and outer ears, there are two of them because we have to ears and that's how we hear. Sony were one of the first companies to create this hardware in the sixties.

The way people interoperate distance and position in audio is through volume as it hits both ears and by the way the audio changes as it passes through our head. Positional audio in it's oldest form was created using two microphones, one for each ear which is then processed to mimic how the sound would change inside our ears and as it passes through our heads.

Due to this your brain hears the direction and depth of the audio source.

With PlayStation VR the process is similar but obviously with the recording stage, the audio is produced natively and the processor also takes into account which way you are facing so the source will move as you turn your head.

Virtual sound is completely different process and gives a completely different result. It doesn't attempt to mimic the way our ears work at all, it attempts to fake multiple speakers
and even real 7.1 are not the best way to mimic what we hear in real life because sound in real life doesn't just originate in 7.1 directions.

Positional audio is a specifically technical process which have been used to sell audio systems that don't even come close to what positional audio actually is. You will see it many sound systems and games but it is factually incorrect to label it as such.

There are different algorithms used for positional audio and some, as you'd expect, are better than others. Below if the first recording that I found on YouTube which obviously means that you're not getting the full audio quality but it doesn't do a particularly bad job what positional audio can do.

The better your headset is, the better the experience should be and keep your eyes closed when you listen to it your ears are hearing something that your eyes aren't seeing and that can reduce the effect.

The Interrogation Chamber - Amazing Binaural 3D Sound Play