PS4K information (~2x GPU power w/ clock+, new CPU, price, tent. Q1 2017)

QuickSilverD said:
No, it doesn't. PSVR already comes packaged with it, I doubt that little box adds more than 20 usd to the manufacturing cost, so no point in removing it and create even more confusion
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Unless, you know, there's a hardware bundle that includes the PS4k and the PSVR together. Or, perhaps, people won't want the extra box if they can just plug it in directly.

They don't have to make another PSVR SKU for it.
 
CosmicQueso said:
Unless, you know, there's a hardware bundle that includes the PS4k and the PSVR together. Or, perhaps, people won't want the extra box if they can just plug it in directly.

They don't have to make another PSVR SKU for it.
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Right, but that would mean all PS4K buyers would have to be forced to buy PSVR, or pay for the incorporated breakout box and potentially buy a second external one if they buy PSVR later. It's too messy.
 
FrozenCell said:
kinda like iPad Air 2 owners feel about the new 9.7" iPad Pro which just came out with a faster SoC at $200 higher pricepoint
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Great example...I literally just bought my IPad Air 2 in December. iPad Pro comes out and you can use the pen, better processor, better screen, more Ram, whatever...I could care less, I love my air 2 as it suits my needs just fine.

I think when we look back, it's going to be hard not to poke fun at some of the hyperbole here. I mean even if ps4k doesn't sell that well, the worse case scenario is its ignored and ps4 keeps trugging along.

Yet you really have people talking about "consoles are dead" or "this will backfire" or "Sony is screwing over everyone"

...

Um...what?
 
AndyD said:
Right, but that would mean all PS4K buyers would have to be forced to buy PSVR, or pay for the incorporated breakout box and potentially buy a second external one if they buy PSVR later. It's too messy.
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Completely disagree. But whatever. Stupid conversation anyways.
 
AndyD said:
That might raise the costs unnecessarily for those not going for VR though.
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And would essentially leave Sony double paying for the equipment for those who are going to get PSVR. It isn't like the breakout box and cables aren't still going to be part of the SKU when you buy a PSVR. The only way it pays off for them is if there's a bundle.
 
jeff_rigby said:
The two video streams coming out of the PS4 HDMI 2 port is another point confirming it has a HDMI 2 port.
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But the second video stream for e.g. Playroom VR is transmitted via USB. It uses the resources allocated for video recording / remote play / streaming and thus disables recording during such games. Only the stereoscopic image for the headset is output via HDMI.
 
FrozenCell said:
kinda like iPad Air 2 owners feel about the new 9.7" iPad Pro which just came out with a faster SoC at $200 higher pricepoint
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I'm an iPad Air 2 owner. When I bought my iPad Air 2 I knew there would be yearly revisions. Also, I couldn't care less how games perform in my iPad, I use it for web surfing and watching youtube videos.

PS4 on the other hand, is all about having games that run great on the system, and when I bought it I expected Sony to support it and develop AAA games for it for at least 5 years, and the industry to use it as a baseline for the development of their games due to it's big installed base.

I know bussiness is bussiness and Sony must do whatever they consider in their best interest. But I would have liked for them to have told us that this generation was going to be iterative if, as it seems, they knew from the beginning.

There is people right now, somewhere in the world, that are buying PS4s thinking they are buying a 1st class ticket for console gaming in the next 3 years. People that would maybe wait one more year if they knew a better PS4 is coming so soon. But Sony doesn't tell them about it because they want them to buy a PS4 and lock them in their ecosystem. How is that ok?
 
David Ricardo said:
I'm an iPad Air 2 owner. When I bought my iPad Air 2 I knew there would be yearly revisions. Also, I couldn't care less how games perform in my iPad, I use it for web surfing and watching youtube videos.

PS4 on the other hand, is all about having games that run great on the system, and when I bought it I expected Sony to support it and develop AAA games for it for at least 5 years, and the industry to use it as a baseline for the development of their games due to it's big installed base.

I know bussiness is bussiness and Sony must do whatever they consider in their best interest. But I would have liked for them to have told us that this generation was going to be iterative if, as it seems, they knew from the beginning.

There is people right now, somewhere in the world, that are buying PS4s thinking they are buying a 1st class ticket for console gaming in the next 3 years. People that would maybe wait one more year if they knew a better PS4 is coming so soon. But Sony doesn't tell them about it because they want them to buy a PS4 and lock them in their ecosystem. How is that ok?
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yes you don't care because your primary use for ipad air is not gaming but movies. So you are saying you would be pissed if Apple suddenly had a better display, it ran movies better, it had better sound?

There are people in the world right now who probably think a lot of things, but if you want to make an informed purchase then you do research. and how do you know they aren't giving a year's notice, they haven't even published a release date yet. The ps4K wont sell to those people anyway because they wouldn't be an enthusiast and that uninformed.
The enthusiasts here are already selling their ps4 lol.
 
TheLegendOfMart said:
The reason games are capped at 30 and 60fps is that most TVs refresh at 60Hz or multiples thereof which means games look relatively smooth.

If games run at FPS outside of those refresh rates you get stuttering and if you disable vsync you get screen tearing.

Freesync means that the TV will refresh at the output rate of the device connected to it to get silky smooth framerate without screen tearing regardless of framerate.

I doubt Sony would go that far, there really would be a shitstorm.
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It would be glorious though.

Both the TV/PS combo and the shitstorm.

I mean can you imagine in the future, gaming on a nice big 80 odd inch 4K TV with freesync? Amazing.
 
scorcher59 said:
Welp! so much for getting the most out of the PS4 hardware now that they've thrown it under the bus big time!
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That isn't necessarily the case. Sony could essentially come out at E3 or whenever and say that PS4 will still be the base platform for game development, however PS4K will get "up ports" via system specific patching to improve performance and resolution far beyond what the original base SKU could handle.

So God of War 4 could come out developed for PS4 for example, getting the most out of the hardware. And then PS4K could take advantage of the extra power to give performance or framerate boosts on top of that.

So your essentially still having the PS4 as the minimum standard it is now, just with a higher tier option for consumers to give those wanting a better experience an option besides moving to PC.

My only thing is that the generation has to be extended by a few years if they are going this route. 6 years only works if your on a single SKU that's long in the tooth. A PS4K is going to take off a lot of pressure to upgrade to more powerful components.

I think this is more about Sony covering their bases in terms of power, giving a premium offering to get more sales from upgraders
 
Inuhanyou said:
That isn't necessarily the case. Sony could essentially come out at E3 or whenever and say that PS4 will still be the base platform for game development, however PS4K will get "up ports" via system specific patching to improve performance and resolution far beyond what the original base SKU could handle.

So God of War 4 could come out developed for PS4 for example, getting the most out of the hardware. And then PS4K could take advantage of the extra power to give performance or framerate boosts on top of that.

So your essentially still having the PS4 as the minimum standard it is now, just with a higher tier option for consumers to give those wanting a better experience an option besides moving to PC.

My only thing is that the generation has to be extended by a few years if they are going this route. 6 years only works if your on a single SKU that's long in the tooth. A PS4K is going to take off a lot of pressure to upgrade to more powerful components.

I think this is more about Sony covering their bases in terms of power, giving a premium offering to get more sales from upgraders
Click to expand...

Doesn't have to be longer generation.
PS4k 3 years later ps5 ps4k replaces ps4 price bracket ps5 takes its place. and so on with ps5k and ps6 etc...
 
Horohoro said:
Doesn't have to be longer generation.
PS4k 3 years later ps5 ps4k replaces ps4 price bracket ps5 takes its place. and so on with ps5k and ps6 etc...
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I don't think 3 years is enough at all. PS5 is supposed to be a huge upgrade hence the 5, yet this will cut into that and make it far less impressive to witness.

So they are going to have to extend the gen and wait for hardware to advance to a reasonable point to make the jump to a new base standard worth it i think.

So instead of 6 years, i'm going to say 7 or 8 years.
 
Muzicfreq said:
Sure... Where the hell am I going to put an 80" screen?
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On the wall of course.

I am just disappointed that True 4K projectors are still insanely priced ($25K) and I will need to trade in my 100" 1080P for a 75-78" display and lose 40% real estate.

Hopefully the added benefits of HDR and 4K will make up for the loss.

quality>quantity
 
joecanada said:
yes you don't care because your primary use for ipad air is not gaming but movies. So you are saying you would be pissed if Apple suddenly had a better display, it ran movies better, it had better sound?

There are people in the world right now who probably think a lot of things, but if you want to make an informed purchase then you do research. and how do you know they aren't giving a year's notice, they haven't even published a release date yet. The ps4K wont sell to those people anyway because they wouldn't be an enthusiast and that uninformed.
The enthusiasts here are already selling their ps4 lol.
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It is all about expectations. People expect a new iPad every year. When an iPad releases, you know if you buy it at launch you have the best iPad there is for a year.

But, it's great that we got to this example. Because there was an instance when an iPad released earlier than expected. IPad 4 released only 7 months after iPad 3 launch, as opposed to the expected 1 year between iPad iterations. A lot of people felt cheated. Because they didn't expect a newer version so early that was much better than the previous version.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/busi...08d1ce-1d44-11e2-ba31-3083ca97c314_story.html

Maybe PS4k is a great success and it oversells the PS4, and developers keep feeding both for years, and everybody is happy, etcetera.

But a lot of PS4 buyers feeling cheated should come to no surprise.
 
David Ricardo said:
It is all about expectations. People expect a new iPad every year. When an iPad releases, you know if you buy it at launch you have the best iPad there is for a year.

But, it's great that we got to this example. Because there was an instance when an iPad released earlier than expected. IPad 4 released only 7 months after iPad 3 launch, as opposed to the expected 1 year between iPad iterations. A lot of people felt cheated. Because they didn't expect a newer version so early that was much better than the previous version.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/busi...08d1ce-1d44-11e2-ba31-3083ca97c314_story.html

Maybe PS4k is a great success and it oversells the PS4, and developers keep feeding both for years, and everybody is happy, etcetera.

But a lot of PS4 buyers feeling cheated should come to no surprise.
Click to expand...

I don't think many people are surprised by some customers feeling cheated with a mid generational upgrade of the PS4. I think that what many are arguing is that it won't matter as much as others are expecting it to matter, in terms of harming the Playstation brand or its business.
 
III-V said:
On the wall of course.

I am just disappointed that True 4K projectors are still insanely priced ($25K) and I will need to trade in my 100" 1080P for a 75-78" display and lose 40% real estate.

Hopefully the added benefits of HDR and 4K will make up for the loss.

quality>quantity
Click to expand...

Hmmm nope can't.Can't even fit a 50" in my room but this 40" I have is fine.
 
David Ricardo said:
But, it's great that we got to this example. Because there was an instance when an iPad released earlier than expected. IPad 4 released only 7 months after iPad 3 launch, as opposed to the expected 1 year between iPad iterations. A lot of people felt cheated. Because they didn't expect a newer version so early that was much better than the previous version.
Click to expand...

Does the average consumer really have the hardcore gamer expectation of a 7-8 year console generation? I get the feeling if you asked, they couldn't tell you the length of the last three console generations.

GAF expecations might not be a good litmus for predicting average consumer expectations.
 
-ImaginaryInsider said:
Does the average consumer really have the hardcore gamer expectation of a 7-8 year console generation? I get the feeling if you asked, they couldn't tell you the length of the last three console generations.

GAF expecations might not be a good litmus for predicting average consumer expectations.
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That and people who frequent places like this kinda do know technology well enough to somewhat understand.
Talking with many people on PS4 don't even know who or what NeoGaf is and if they do their opinion is pretty sour.
 
Inuhanyou said:
I don't think 3 years is enough at all. PS5 is supposed to be a huge upgrade hence the 5, yet this will cut into that and make it far less impressive to witness.

So they are going to have to extend the gen and wait for hardware to advance to a reasonable point to make the jump to a new base standard worth it i think.

So instead of 6 years, i'm going to say 7 or 8 years.
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Agreed. I think this move is actually to extend the current gen, not cut it short.
 
Muzicfreq said:
That and people who frequent places like this kinda do know technology well enough to somewhat understand.
Talking with many people on PS4 don't even know who or what NeoGaf is and if they do their opinion is pretty sour.
Click to expand...

everyone on the internet hates gaf...even people frequently on gaf :D
 
David Ricardo said:
IPad 4 released only 7 months after iPad 3 launch, as opposed to the expected 1 year between iPad iterations. A lot of people felt cheated. Because they didn't expect a newer version so early that was much better than the previous version.

But a lot of PS4 buyers feeling cheated should come to no surprise.
Click to expand...

That's a pretty good example. I was one of those iPad 3 owners. I still haven't upgraded.

Maybe it's time to rip the band-aid off on console cycle expectations.
 
-ImaginaryInsider said:
Does the average consumer really have the hardcore gamer expectation of a 7-8 year console generation? I get the feeling if you asked, they couldn't tell you the length of the last three console generations.

GAF expecations might not be a good litmus for predicting average consumer expectations.
Click to expand...

This is actually an interesting question. They may not know how long each generation lasts, but they may have a rough idea how long before there is a new generation. Even if they didn't know what year the PS3 or PS4 came out, they may have a rough estimate how long they had a console before they bought another console. So even though the exact dates may not be known, they may have a rough idea how long it was based on their own buying habits.
 
RoboPlato said:
Agreed. I think this move is actually to extend the current gen, not cut it short.
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Yeah, now that i'm thinking about it more and more, i think thats a real plausible scenario.

And the more i think about it, the more i'm confident in the PS4 not changing its role and the PS4K being more of a stand alone performance expansion pack. I think they might use 16 finfet to put out a slim PS4 for a lesser price, and go with this new PS4K at a premium price to satisfy two price points and user bases at the same time.
 
Marty Chinn said:
This is actually an interesting question. They may not know how long each generation lasts, but they may have a rough idea how long before there is a new generation. Even if they didn't know what year the PS3 or PS4 came out, they may have a rough estimate how long they had a console before they bought another console. So even though the exact dates may not be known, they may have a rough idea how long it was based on their own buying habits.
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Will the average consumer even understand what the point of the 4.5 is? They probably will think its a new console and assume the graphics barely got a bump.
 
msdstc said:
Will the average consumer even understand what the point of the 4.5 is? They probably will think its a new console and assume the graphics barely got a bump.
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If they price it at 449 or 499, its intended to be a premium product for enthusiasts you know?

So..it won't be for the average consumer...the OG PS4 will probably get a price cut and sold as is
 
Corto said:
I don't think many people are surprised by some customers feeling cheated with a mid generational upgrade of the PS4. I think that what many are arguing is that it won't matter as much as others are expecting it to matter, in terms of harming the Playstation brand or its business.
Click to expand...

Read the thread. I have been accused of being poor, being stupid, being over the top, not understanding things correctly, crying because I won't have the top tier console anymore, not wanting people to have something I don't like... etc..

Purely because my concerns are that the PS4 will get worse performing games than they already do using similar assumptions that I have been making yet somehow their opinion is more valid than mine and I am just stupid.
 
Wow I'm really surprised that Sony possibly planned this from the beginning.


http://semiaccurate.com/2013/10/18/sony-takes-radically-different-approach-ps4-lifecycle/

Oct 18, 2013 by Charlie Demerjian

Even before the Playstation 4 is out there are credible rumors about its replacement that suggest Sony is going down a radically different path this time. Is the normal console life cycle dead before it even starts?
Click to expand...

Article is behind a paywall so it's not worth clicking the link.
 
wildfire said:
Wow I'm really surprised that Sony possibly planned this from the beginning.


http://semiaccurate.com/2013/10/18/sony-takes-radically-different-approach-ps4-lifecycle/



Article is behind a paywall so it's not worth clicking the link.
Click to expand...

Microsoft as well I'd wager. There is a reason they are using a hypervisor for distributing system resources. This should help going forward when it comes to compatibility with X1 titles on a new console. They probably could even get rid off the ESRAM in a future Xbox.
 
wildfire said:
Wow I'm really surprised that Sony possibly planned this from the beginning.
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Why? 3 years isn't a very long time at all. It's not as if Sony can just rock up at AMD and say "I need 10 million new chips tomorrow please". There's a lot of R&D that goes into something like this. And again it is worth remembering that neither console really uses off the self PC parts, their APU's are merely based on common technology. We know Sony have a say in the APU design and have requested specific changes.

If they are going to release a new console based on improved parts then those parts need to be researched, designed, tested, etc.

Like Playstation VR, if this rumor bears fruit then Sony had this planned since before the PS4's launch.
 
wildfire said:
Wow I'm really surprised that Sony possibly planned this from the beginning.


http://semiaccurate.com/2013/10/18/sony-takes-radically-different-approach-ps4-lifecycle/



Article is behind a paywall so it's not worth clicking the link.
Click to expand...

From what i underrstand (i'm not tech savvy), the move to X-86 kind of suggested this may be the route that consoles took. After the X1 launch fiasco i wonder if both just decided to normalise the consoles as much as possible and get them out the door before another shit stormed brewed. Just reading the reactions to this news probably justifies that. But i would have preferred to know at the start of the generation.

I just watched the Uncharted 4 stuff, i think Sony and Msoft will have a hard time advertising these .5 consoles if true when a game looks as good as that running on a vanilla PS4. I would imagine that the .5 will very much be slow burner consoles so to speak.
 
Things still don't add up for me. Retailers already got the size & the price of this PlayStation close to a year before it launch?

This isn't really clicking with me, I believe Sony gave them loose information to prepare them & they could release at anytime in the next year & the price isn't set in stone yet.
 
Is $100 of extra cpu grunt really necessary is the primary purpose of this machine is to push higher resolutions and framerates? I really hope in a few years the og PS4 isn't getting totally gimped versions of games because the primary development platforms is significantly more powerful
 
AngryMoth said:
Is $100 of extra cpu grunt really necessary is the primary purpose of this machine is to push higher resolutions and framerates? I really hope in a few years the og PS4 isn't getting totally gimped versions of games because the primary development platforms is significantly more powerful
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I don't know what gives you the impression that CPU doesn't effect framerate significantly. And you go with the more expensive option so it stays somewhat capable for a longer period of time. If you are going to make a premium SKU why gimp it?
 
AngryMoth said:
Is $100 of extra cpu grunt really necessary is the primary purpose of this machine is to push higher resolutions and framerates? I really hope in a few years the og PS4 isn't getting totally gimped versions of games because the primary development platforms is significantly more powerful
Click to expand...

CPU won't push higher resolutions.

Seriously, what will change? You'll get the PC vs PS4 situation. The more powerful machine has better lod, resolution, draw distance and so on. PS4 will be just fine.
 
AngryMoth said:
Is $100 of extra cpu grunt really necessary is the primary purpose of this machine is to push higher resolutions and framerates? I really hope in a few years the og PS4 isn't getting totally gimped versions of games because the primary development platforms is significantly more powerful
Click to expand...
Frame rates can be very dependant on CPU.
 
Ok well that makes more sense then I didn't was under the impression more gpu power would be enough for higher framerates. Forgive my ignorance
 
TheLegendOfMart said:
Read the thread. I have been accused of being poor, being stupid, being over the top, not understanding things correctly, crying because I won't have the top tier console anymore, not wanting people to have something I don't like... etc..

Purely because my concerns are that the PS4 will get worse performing games than they already do using similar assumptions that I have been making yet somehow their opinion is more valid than mine and I am just stupid.
Click to expand...

Lets face it, power creep is going to happen in 2017 anyway with 14 nm.

Hell even Nx is rumoured on GAF thread to be more powerful than Ps4, and there is the Xbox Next rumour thread front page as well, and phils comments that 1.5 power is not exciting enough (not his exact words, but that was how I read it)

With all the new PC releases coming up, next year EVERYBODY is going to have more grunt except vanilla Ps4, Xb1. How does that make your feel ?

Some devs are going to make more demanding games anyway, with or without Ps4k. Once you accept these inevitabilities, then the way forward is much easier...
 
TheLegendOfMart said:
Read the thread. I have been accused of being poor, being stupid, being over the top, not understanding things correctly, crying because I won't have the top tier console anymore, not wanting people to have something I don't like... etc..
Click to expand...

The elitist crew who are trying to construct a new mini-master race position need to give it a rest. There's no place in a community for that kind of divisive banter, and I'm sure it'll get sorted out eventually. Every corner of the Internet has its share of crass behavior. Have you skimmed through any of the threads about women or LGBT issues here? Yeah, you have my sympathy but you're certainly far from alone and many others get it much worse.

Purely because my concerns are that the PS4 will get worse performing games than they already do using similar assumptions that I have been making yet somehow their opinion is more valid than mine and I am just stupid.
Click to expand...

Keep in mind that this isn't a private discussion. Most people are quite aware that they're in a public forum and are making their side of the argument for the audience, not to belittle you. It's a debate over likely outcomes not a question of whose opinion is most valid.
 
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