Support NeoGAF

[Jawmuncher]

They shouldn't have gotten greedy and tried to chase the avengers cash.
Should have did more build up.

 

[PhoncipleBone]

Justice for backing HDDVD

They were one of the few studios supporting both formats, and it was WBs decision to go Blu only that killed HDDVD.

 

[Permanently A]

But sources with firsthand knowledge of the situation say the studio has no such plans. One says the filmmakers naturally will evaluate what went wrong with BvS, but when it comes to Justice League, "we're not going to take a movie that's supposed to be one thing and turn it into a copycat of something else."

holy clickbait batman!

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

Its hard to love a character whose only movies in the last few deacdes have been a boring as fuck indecisive sequel/remake/reboot and a depressive as fuck punch-fest that made him even more dark and emo than BATMAN, if such a thing is even possible...

I think what the poster meant was that even if WB made the most perfect Superman it would still lag behind Batman in terms of popularity and sale because DC puts more marketing towards Batman than any other character they have. There's a reason Batman usually has the better writers, the best games, the best comics, the best at everything.

 

[Version 3.0]

Those aren't just characters, those are people's childhood (and some adulthood) heroes. Those are symbols of heroism and justice and hope that people have clung to throughout the past century during dark and bleak events. They MEAN something to so many people across the globe.

So the audience desire was simply to see a film worthy of those characters. And by and large the audience simply didn't get that.

Oh, I agree. Like I said: simple answer, but difficult to execute. Yes, certainly people want a great film. I'm not saying they don't. But firstly, if they got the characters right, I think that would go a long way towards making a good film. And secondly, what I'm saying is that if they nailed the characters, they'd have made a successful film by delivering the #1 thing fans wanted. That being getting the characters right. Not necessarily a great film, but a successful one. Like The Force Awakens, for example. Is that a great film? I'd say no. But it's a good one, it definitely delivered what (at least most) fans wanted, and it enjoyed tremendous success.

 

[Josh5890]

How long before they get desperate and reboot Lord of the Rings?

Please.....don't.....suggest.......that.........out loud.

 

[Dahbomb]

What's this DC event movie planned for Oct 2017?

NVM I misread.

 

[Inferno313]

How long before they get desperate and reboot Lord of the Rings?

An epic, 6 part saga from the mind of Peter Jackson:

THE SILMARILLION.

What's this DC event movie planned for Oct 2017?

I can't believe that WB is still on track for Justice League in November of this year. Movie has not even started started shooting yet.

November of next year.

 

[shortsFortallPeople]

What's this DC event movie planned for Oct 2017?

I can't believe that WB is still on track for Justice League in November of this year. Movie has not even started started shooting yet.

it likely starts with a bat and ends with a man

 

[DeathyBoy]

The mid 00's is a nostalgia trip to a bygone era? Also, how does attempting to translate what is considered some of the best incarnations of these characters a wrong move? JL/JLU proved that they know how to tie everything together and make every character of the JL feel unique and important.

The same way that Singer making a sequel thirty years later to Superman II was a bad move - nostalgia doesn't sell.

But all this is irrelevant given Timi and Dini have gone on record as saying they don't want to do it, and Dini doesn't think a DC universe in live-action will work, period.

If they need someone to oversee it, go get Berlanti. The dude's done wonders with a CW budget on three shows, and deserves a promotion to the big leagues.

 

[Forsaken82]

Jupiter Ascending
Pan
In the Heart of the Sea

How can non-industry people like us KNOW that these would be total bombs but the execs being paid ton$ of money greenlighting them had no idea? Someone tell me

I didn't need to see the trailers for any of them either. I couldve told them right off that dumping $150 million into Jupiter Ascending was a bad idea.

You seriously expect people to ignore that the tagline "From the directors of the Matrix" doesn't sound like a way to get the masses into the theater? Come on... from a marketing standpoint its brilliant. If Spongebob and Fifty Shades don't come out at the same time, Jupiter Ascending probably has a fairly decent opening week primarily because of "From the Directors of the matrix" tag line before it ultimately dies off do to bad customer feedback. Instead families brought there kids to Spongebob and girlfriends dragged there boyfriends to Fifty Shades.

Also, i think Kingsman started spreading great word of mouth around that time as well also eating up sales. So yeah... Jupiter Ascending... garbage movie... would have probably made bank however had those 3 films not existed in theaters simultaneously.

 

[Succinct Verbosity]

Why DC/WB trying to force Cyborg on us like Roman Reigns as of late?

Diversity. But it really is odd. DC already has a John Stewart who is far more popular and could have far more interesting stories to tell. I mean, we could have both Cyborg and GL and that'd be great too, but if I had to pick one I'd rather the latter.

 

[MHWilliams]

How long before they get desperate and reboot Lord of the Rings?

Looking at the timeline? Probably 2020+. Being completely serious.

Lord of the Rings (2001, 2002, 2003)
The Hobbit (2012, 2013, 2014)

Alternatively, they pick another well loved fantasy epic and try to make a go of it.

Diversity. But it really is odd. DC already has a John Stewart who is far more popular and could have far more interesting stories to tell. I mean, we could have both Cyborg and GL and that'd be great too, but if I had to pick one I'd rather the latter.

Because Geoff Johns wants Hal Jordan in the Green Lantern role and has enough pull to make it happen. Given that, the Justice League is low on minorities, hence Hawaiian Aquaman and Cyborg. Of course, John Stewart's inclusion in Justice League in the first place was a "token" role. (If you can't tell, I find the idea of "token" to be weak at best. Execution is everything, not intent.)

 

[The Artisan]

It's not entirely his fault, but considering where screenwriters stand on the hierarchy of movie creatives, Snyder was absolutely in a position to go "Hey, this plot makes no sense". He also would probably be heavily involved in the script revisions.

The dour tone and "Superman as Jesus" theme is probably him. Everything visual as him. So while he might not be 100% to blame for the failure that is BvS, he's just responsible for nearly everything that failed to work.

If that's the case then the others should be as blamed as much as him, yeah? Because if this is the case it isn't fair to make his name synonymous with this movie's failure.

Bale was never replaced.

The story of his version of the character concluded. Nolan wasn't interested in making anymore, Bale wasn't interested in making anymore, the story had finished. I think it would've only been a bad thing if they tried to get Bale to do this. That take on the character is terrific as a standalone trilogy, but trying to retroactively fit that trilogy into a cinematic universe where aliens and gods exist would've not worked at all.

Also, even if they could've gotten Bale to do BvS and the Justice League movies, there's no way he'd also want to do another trilogy of solo films.

Are you trying to give the "grounded in reality" argument? Because there's no way I will believe that

-some ninja-terrorist-illuminati group (League of Shadows)
-or some drug that could make Batman look like this to scare people but then make people try to kill him (Scarecrow Fear Toxin)
-or a psychopathic murderer could singularly figure out months and months of planning to blow up ferries and a hospital (Joker)
-or a man who can punch through concrete (Bane)

could ever exist in a "realistic" world, which there is only one; ours. Reality. None of this crap is plausible the way we know things.

And as far as the story goes, I'm pretty sure that when BvS was still in development, Snyder wanted a Batman that was sort of a veteran, who was older and has been Batman for a while...and Bale's interpretation of that character would've fit the bill fine with that. Even the new aesthetics (aside from the bat symbol) and the voice modulator; all that would've made sense so that Bale wouldn't be doing that growl anymore.

 

[PBY]

If that's the case then the others should be as blamed as much as him, yeah? Because if this is the case it isn't fair to make his name synonymous with this movie's failure.
Are you trying to give the "grounded in reality" argument? Because there's no way I will believe that

-some ninja-terrorist-illuminati group (League of Shadows)
-or some drug that could make Batman look like this to scare people but then make people try to kill him (Scarecrow Fear Toxin)
-or a psychopathic murderer could singularly figure out months and months of planning to blow up ferries and a hospital (Joker)
-or a man who can punch through concrete (Bane)

could ever exist in a "realistic" world, which there is only one; ours. Reality. None of this crap is plausible the way we know things.

People blame Snyder because he has a history of making bad movies.

 

[Dahbomb]

NVM JL is in Nov 2017. That's more reasonable.

 

[Inferno313]

You seriously expect people to ignore that the tagline "From the directors of the Matrix" doesn't sound like a way to get the masses into the theater? Come on... from a marketing standpoint its brilliant. If Spongebob and Fifty Shades don't come out at the same time, Jupiter Ascending probably has a fairly decent opening week primarily because of "From the Directors of the matrix" tag line. Instead families brought there kids to Spongebob and girlfriends dragged there boyfriends to Fifty Shades.

Yeah, just like it worked for Speed Racer and Cloud Atlas.

 

[Dash_Riprock]

The same way that Singer making a sequel thirty years later to Superman II was a bad move - nostalgia doesn't sell.

*Looks at Jurassic World and The Force Awakens.*

Um...

Spoiler

Granted, they were good movies on their own (despite what GAF might say). But you cannot deny Nostalgia was a HUGE factor in their BO gross.

 

[Alandrus Sun]

The same way that Singer making a sequel thirty years later to Superman II was a bad move - nostalgia doesn't sell.

But all this is irrelevant given Timi and Dini have gone on record as saying they don't want to do it, and Dini doesn't think a DC universe in live-action will work, period.

If they need someone to oversee it, go get Berlanti. The dude's done wonders with a CW budget on three shows, and deserves a promotion to the big leagues.

That is a totally different situation. It's not like anyone is saying to make a continuation of the Animated Series but to have people in charge who understand the characters and have experience creating a connected universe. As for Berlanti, when Arrow gets good again then he can ask for a promotion.

 

[Sibersk Esto]

There's no way potter or LOTR gets remade

 

[DeathyBoy]

If that's the case then the others should be as blamed as much as him, yeah? Because if this is the case it isn't fair to make his name synonymous with this movie's failure.
Are you trying to give the "grounded in reality" argument? Because there's no way I will believe that

-some ninja-terrorist-illuminati group (League of Shadows)
-or some drug that could make Batman look like this to scare people but then make people try to kill him (Scarecrow Fear Toxin)
-or a psychopathic murderer could singularly figure out months and months of planning to blow up ferries and a hospital (Joker)
-or a man who can punch through concrete (Bane)

could ever exist in a "realistic" world, which there is only one; ours. Reality. None of this crap is plausible the way we know things.

It's always been ridiculous to hear people say Nolan's world couldn't have superpowers. Just say they didn't exist before, have MOS play out (a better version) and have Nolan's Batman get involved. Presto, the universe has expanded.

 

[The Artisan]

People blame Snyder because he has a history of making bad movies.

I don't know what his history/catalogue is, well maybe there are some movies of his I've seen that I didn't like and didn't know was directed by him, but WB picked him to direct for whatever reason, you know.

 

[Garlador]

You seriously expect people to ignore that the tagline "From the directors of the Matrix" doesn't sound like a way to get the masses into the theater? Come on... from a marketing standpoint its brilliant. If Spongebob and Fifty Shades don't come out at the same time, Jupiter Ascending probably has a fairly decent opening week primarily because of "From the Directors of the matrix" tag line before it ultimately dies off do to bad customer feedback. Instead families brought there kids to Spongebob and girlfriends dragged there boyfriends to Fifty Shades.

Also, i think Kingsman started spreading great word of mouth around that time as well also eating up sales. So yeah... Jupiter Ascending... garbage movie... would have probably made bank however had those 3 films not existed in theaters simultaneously.

"From the Directors of the Matrix" hasn't been relevant since the first film in 1999. Good lord, it's been 15 years...

You know what else came out in 1999? The Sixth Sense. But general audiences by now don't look at "from the director of The Sixth Sense" and get warm feelings anymore... Not after Lady in the Water, no doubt.

I don't know what his history/catalogue is, well maybe there are some movies of his I've seen that I didn't like and didn't know was directed by him, but WB picked him to direct for whatever reason, you know.

At this point, I'm starting to believe it's because he has dirt on the WB heads of staff or something.

 

[Jigorath]

And this is how my favorite film studio dies

Not with a bang but a whimper.

 

[Inferno313]

If that's the case then the others should be as blamed as much as him, yeah? Because if this is the case it isn't fair to make his name synonymous with this movie's failure.
Are you trying to give the "grounded in reality" argument? Because there's no way I will believe that

-some ninja-terrorist-illuminati group (League of Shadows)
-or some drug that could make Batman look like this to scare people but then make people try to kill him (Scarecrow Fear Toxin)
-or a psychopathic murderer could singularly figure out months and months of planning to blow up ferries and a hospital (Joker)
-or a man who can punch through concrete (Bane)

could ever exist in a "realistic" world, which there is only one; ours. Reality. None of this crap is plausible the way we know things.

I'm absolutely not. Those films obviously don't take place in our reality, but they also don't take place in a reality where Superman and Wonderwoman and Darkseid would exist. Films aren't either "realistic" or "fantasy", each film takes place in it's own universe with it's own rules.

The world of Lord of the Rings isn't anything like ours, but it's also a world that wouldn't have alien invasions happening in it.

 

[Dash_Riprock]

I don't know what his history/catalogue is, well maybe there are some movies of his I've seen that I didn't like and didn't know was directed by him, but WB picked him to direct for whatever reason, you know.

WB picked him because apparently:

1.) Nolan recommended him.

and more importantly

2.) No other director on their shortlist wanted to do MoS.

There's no way potter or LOTR gets remade

Its not a question of IF, but WHEN.

Same with Star Wars.

 

[CrichtonKicks]

Eh, Bale's smarter than you give him credit for. He had enough pull to drag Jonathan Nolan to rewrite Terminator Salvation drastically. The dude power-played big-time on that film to make it what he wanted it to be. If he joined BvS, I guarantee you he'd be fighting Snyder every step of the way re: content.

Instead Affleck did the same thing with Chris Terrio. And the results were still poor.

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

There's no way potter or LOTR gets remade

Nothing is sacred.

 

[Plasma]

I don't get why they even need to do a DC Universe, just having Batman films on their own was fine.

 

[The Artisan]

It's always been ridiculous to hear people say Nolan's world couldn't have superpowers. Just say they didn't exist before, have MOS play out (a better version) and have Nolan's Batman get involved. Presto, the universe has expanded.

exactly. To me, it is a huge missed opportunity. But anyways, we're veering off topic though as all this isn't really relevant; my original point was that it is just interesting to think about how the critical reception, box office performance, and audience perception would've/could've been IF Bale wasn't replaced.

 

[Pai Pai Master]

There's no way potter or LOTR gets remade

How much longer does WB hold the rights?

Surely they'd consider another go at it before they lose the chance

 

[DeathyBoy]

*Looks at Jurassic World and The Force Awakens.*

Um...

Spoiler

Granted, they were good movies on their own (despite what GAF might say). But you cannot deny Nostalgia was a HUGE factor in their BO gross.

JW was certainly not a good movie (it has a great third act, but the rest is pretty poor), but they don't coast on nostalgia. The films flirt with it, but ultimately they create a new experience. JW is, tonally, unlike any other JP film.

 

[Inferno313]

It's always been ridiculous to hear people say Nolan's world couldn't have superpowers. Just say they didn't exist before, have MOS play out (a better version) and have Nolan's Batman get involved. Presto, the universe has expanded.

Sure if you want to totally back-track every shred of ongoing character development and closure those films had. It would just feel gross and opportunistic if BvS opened with Baleman, living his happy life in Paris, decided "Fuck, there's a cinematic universe now? Bye babe, I'm heading back to Gotham. Fuck that John Blake kid, am I right?"

 

[Dead]

Can't WB just original stories based in Middle Earth like that Shadow of Mordor game?

 

[pgtl_10]

I understand franchises make money but how about focusing on good one off movies instead of franchises? Rebuild the brand rather than going for the big paycheck in one swoop.

 

[Dash_Riprock]

Sure if you want to totally back-track every shred of ongoing character development and closure those films had. It would just feel gross and opportunistic if BvS opened with Baleman, living his happy life in Paris, decided "Fuck, there's a cinematic universe now? Bye babe, I'm heading back to Gotham. Fuck that John Blake kid, am I right?"

Call him by his REAL name, dude.

Spoiler

ROBIN!

 

[jmood88]

You seriously expect people to ignore that the tagline "From the directors of the Matrix" doesn't sound like a way to get the masses into the theater? Come on... from a marketing standpoint its brilliant. If Spongebob and Fifty Shades don't come out at the same time, Jupiter Ascending probably has a fairly decent opening week primarily because of "From the Directors of the matrix" tag line before it ultimately dies off do to bad customer feedback. Instead families brought there kids to Spongebob and girlfriends dragged there boyfriends to Fifty Shades.

Also, i think Kingsman started spreading great word of mouth around that time as well also eating up sales. So yeah... Jupiter Ascending... garbage movie... would have probably made bank however had those 3 films not existed in theaters simultaneously.

It clearly hasn't helped convinced audiences to pay for any of their non-Matrix movies.

 

[Metalingus5150]

I understand franchises make money but how about focusing on one off good movies instead of franchises? Rebuild the brand rather going for the big paycheck in one swoop.

They want that Avengers money.

 

[pgtl_10]

They want that Avengers money.

But it's not working and the field is becoming saturated.

 

[Garlador]

I understand franchises make money but how about focusing on one off good movies instead of franchises? Rebuild the brand rather going for the big paycheck in one swoop.

Shhh. Don't speak such logic here. Movie moguls would shriek at the sight of such common sense.

 

[Josh5890]

Can't WB just original stories based in Middle Earth like that Shadow of Mordor game?

Those films have huge production costs and I think they lost a lot of good will with the public after the Hobbit trilogy. It's not like they couldn't get that back with a good film, but the risk would be huge.

 

[Can Crusher]

That Constantine movie wasn't bad, by the way. Wasn't John from the books at all, but it was a pretty fun supernatural action/adventure.

I agree.

 

[AcademicSaucer]

Why dont they do one offs and build from there?

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

They want that Avengers money.

Devs making shooters want CoD money. And WB ain't BF.

 

[Puck Beaverton]

They want that Avengers money.

Yep. Read a quote where the director of Midnight Special said he had trouble getting WB on board because an exec said they weren't in the business of making 30 million dollar films that earn 50 million, they want to do 100 million dollar films that make 300 million.

 

[Josh5890]

But it's not working and the field is becoming saturated.

Agreed. I think the window of opportunity is just about shut for a Justice League universe to be as popular and successful as the Marvel Cinematic Universe. I think that by 2020 comic book films will see a soft crash.

 

[Finaika]

WB picked him because apparently:

1.) Nolan recommended him.

Nolan has bad taste.

 

[Anth0ny]

Yep. Read a quote where the director of Midnight Special said he had trouble getting WB on board because an exec said they weren't in the business of making 30 million dollar films that earn 50 million, they want to do 100 million dollar films that make 300 million.

and in the case of bvs, a 900 million dollar film that makes 1.5 billion

it's insanity

 

[AmaterasuOni]

Why dont they do one offs and build from there?

Because DC Universe.

 

[gioGAF]

The problem with BvS isn't the actors or the director, it is the story. The plot is shit, so no matter what you do, the movie remains bad. I also don't think it is the writers' fault (Terrio, Goyer), I think Warner Brothers is probably to blame.

WB is usually shit (as evidenced by their gaming products), I'm guessing there was quite a bit of studio interference going on with this film. WB wants that Marvel money, but they think they can skip all the set-up films and get right to the team-up spectacular. WB is wrong, and in the process they are ruining the set-up films.