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Batman v Superman Spoiler Thread: Don't believe everything you read, Son

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I actually didn't remember off the top of my head that both of their mothers' were named Martha. So when Superman starting screaming it, I though he was either delirious or trying to confuse Bats like Bobby Hill ("That's my purse!"). But yeah it makes sense in context, he was trying to get his attention by using a name they both had deep emotional connections too. And Bats learning that Superman had a human mother and girlfriend probably hinted that he wasn't out to rule the planet like the tyrant, since it was his home too.

As for whether the movie was good? I have no idea. I'm not familiar enough with the source material. Didn't care for Affleck's angsty Batman with the weird eyes looking through the mask. I went and watched the animated TDKR, and I like that Batman better.
 
Personally, I hate the superhearing superpower where he is able to comprehend individual sounds instead of them just being complete chaos from being overlaid together. That one never made sense to me. But it was a mechanic that let Superman kind of know his limits, so sometimes it was interesting. So...Snyder says they want to depict one thing, but they were going to do that by doing it only when his personal mother is in danger, and he was going to ignore the rest of the cries for help because he's looking for his own mom right now?

Part of hte reason this film has such problems is that it's just questionable material altogether, but even working with good material, Snyder has problems conveying his intended message. He says it's a comment on how Superman can only do so much and has to pick what problems are not his to solve. On paper, that's a pretty good concept.

But the way he describes this scene would have only conveyed that Superman only bothers listening when he has personal stake in troubles and ignores the ones that aren't his problem.

Edit: thank you Alienous, proves my point exactly.
 
There is actually a scene like that in Superman Returns where he's floating above the Earth just listening toe everything going on and then picks out a bank robbery and decides to intervene there.

I can see Snyder making it even clearer that there are other negative things going on. Returns doesn't really go in that direction and perhaps that's for the better. I can imagine the shit storm that would have erupted if he kept that in. Completely ignoring that this is a real issue for Superman that he has to not act on some things either because he can't be everywhere at once, can't be playing god all the time, would remove the purpose of actual law enforcement, etc. This is one of the more complex issues with Superman, his power, and how it's used. It's also something I can see people pushing back on in a big way if you get far to detailed regarding it. Especially if they're inclined to already have a negative opinion of the film. I do think for some people the very fact Superman is not written as a imperfect god pisses some people off. For as much talk as there about how Superman isn't relatable, etc there is a group of people that don't care and want him to be all powerful, no mistakes, always knows what to do, and do it with a never ending smile.

I heard someone say this one time, might have been recently but not sure, and it made sense. Superman if he were on Krypton would just be another guy going about his life. He's special in terms of powers because he's on Earth. Outside of the powers he's just a guy that happens to be from another planet. Yet rightly or wrongly there are people that do not want him to have issues that normal people have because he has that costume, S, and powers. The idea that he would struggle with something is wrong to them. I don't think that's fair at all. Regardless of it being put forward on screen well the very idea flaws would be apart of the Superman character is just wrong to some people and they will refuse to accept regardless of how it's done. I think that is why there is a lot of dislike at times for what Superman does and is like in Superman Returns (doubt, jealousy, etc), MOS, BvS. I think the Reeves films get off easy because you have that do no wrong Superman and that's what people focus on. However the more "human" elements where he is lost, doesn't know what to do, etc are there but they're never given a focus like they should outside of maybe one or two scenes a film and then they go away.
 
I went to the movies yesterday saw it on IMAX 70mm goodness, saw it at 3:20pm granted everyone in NY is working at that hour. Anyhow, i really enjoyed the movie my only gripes is the choppy editing and the constant jumping of scenes ( like dream sequences come out of nowhere ). Outside from that i enjoyed the experience and pre-ordered the ultimate edition.

I'm just a little perplexed about batman killing several people it's like Snyder put some steroids into Frank Miller batman, i dont mind the brutal aspect of batman but jeez lol oh and i was indifferent to Luther so bleh. I'll give the movie a solid B.
 
Dead said:
You won't believe what scene Zack Snyder cut from the film for being too dark!

http://www.ign.com/articles/2016/04...ene-explains-pivotal-batman-v-superman-moment

For those wondering why Superman didn't hear Martha being kidnapped

No word if its in the director's cut
Click to expand...

He's apparently always listening for Lois though.

Also, instead of taking in some people's cries for help for a few seconds, he decided to go fight Batman and threaten him with death instead. That's cool.
 
thecouncil said:
He's apparently always listening for Lois though.

Also, instead of taking in some people's cries for help for a few seconds, he decided to go fight Batman and threaten him with death instead. That's cool.
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In a way, Supes saved KGBeast's life. Then he encountered Batman a second time.
 
dan2026 said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDMQ3tXNKgM

This guy gets it. This guy understands about Superman.
Where Hollywood doesn't seem to have a clue.

Also I really must watch those Fleischer cartoons.
Click to expand...
That Fleischer cartoon has better animation and fluidity than most stuff that comes out in the current decade LMAO!

Dead said:
You won't believe what scene Zack Snyder cut from the film for being too dark!

http://www.ign.com/articles/2016/04...ene-explains-pivotal-batman-v-superman-moment

For those wondering why Superman didn't hear Martha being kidnapped

No word if its in the director's cut
Click to expand...
This relates back to Man of Steel when Clark first discovered his hearing ability and was traumatized then Marth told him that if the world is too big then make it smaller like an island.

Lois Lane is his island now. I mean that's what most people assumed anyway but this deleted scene hammers home that point even more.


I think the scene might be too dark due to content of the cries for help. People dying, getting mugged/raped etc.
 
Dead said:
You won't believe what scene Zack Snyder cut from the film for being too dark!

http://www.ign.com/articles/2016/04...ene-explains-pivotal-batman-v-superman-moment

For those wondering why Superman didn't hear Martha being kidnapped



No word if its in the director's cut
Click to expand...

That sounds great. I have always wondered why Superman wouldn't go save children from pedophiles and is only concerned with stopping bank robbers and people falling off buildings. it just felt so childish.

If anything this shows that Superman can never work in todays world where someone somewhere is getting raped, murdered and held hostage. He is too powerful and can hear everything. Why would he fool around with Louis in a bathtub when there are millions of people screaming for help at that very moment.
 
That's because most Superman stories are aimed at a younger audience. You probably don't want your Superman stories based around Superman hunting pedophiles because then you would have to explain to your younger audience what a pedophile is and why what they are doing is wrong.
 
SlimySnake said:
That sounds great. I have always wondered why Superman wouldn't go save children from pedophiles and is only concerned with stopping bank robbers and people falling off buildings. it just felt so childish.

If anything this shows that Superman can never work in todays world where someone somewhere is getting raped, murdered and held hostage. He is too powerful and can hear everything. Why would he fool around with Louis in a bathtub when there are millions of people screaming for help at that very moment.
Click to expand...

The scene ahs im trying to hone in on her tho, meaning he is able to filter it.

And if hte limit is hte distance between metropolis and smallville, how was he able to hear lois in the middle east?
 
Dahbomb said:
That's because most Superman stories are aimed at a younger audience. You probably don't want your Superman stories based around Superman hunting pedophiles because then you would have to explain to your younger audience what a pedophile is and why what they are doing is wrong.
Click to expand...
Didn't stop WB from making a Supemran movie mentioning sex sl.....
Veelk said:
I mean, didn't stop BvS from depicting sex slavery
Click to expand...
Well, there you go.
 
Sethista said:
And if hte limit is hte distance between metropolis and smallville, how was he able to hear lois in the middle east?
Click to expand...

I think it's implied that Superman was already near the village, he was following Lois because he knew she'd get into trouble.

But if that's the case not sure why he didn't intervene and attempt to save Jimmy lol

But I'm not sure 100%
 
The final fight with Doomsday made me realize I never again wants to see the "group of heroes vs armies of goons" shit ever again. Heroes working together against one enemy is so much more satysfing for a finale.
 
Pai Pai Master said:
I think it's implied that Superman was already near the village, he was following Lois because he knew she'd get into trouble.

But if that's the case not sure why he didn't intervene and attempt to save Jimmy lol

But I'm not sure 100%
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Didnt we see him breaking the sound barrier when he was coming in tho?

That requires some distance to achieve right?

Well, we can safely say its not clear in the movie, and that in on itself is bad .
 
KonradLaw said:
The final fight with Doomsday made me realize I never again wants to see the "group of heroes vs armies of goons" shit ever again. Heroes working together against one enemy is so much more satysfing for a finale.
Click to expand...

I like the ending of the avengers more. the army of goons was great to show what every one of the heroes is best at.

Hawkeye with a birdlike view supporting everyone, cap and the black widow on the ground on crowd control, iron man protecting the perimeter.... THat was very well done.

Same on ultron
 
Sethista said:
Didnt we see him breaking the sound barrier when he was coming in tho?

That requires some distance to achieve right?

Well, we can safely say its not clear in the movie, and that in on itself is bad .
Click to expand...

If he'd started in Kansas or Metropolis he wouldn't be breaking sound barriers by the time he hit Africa, he'd have done so on the flight over. I'm thinking he was close enough to get there quickly if something bad happened, but not so close as to be a provocation. Granted, that didn't really work out, but still.
 
i wonder what this Bruce Wayne's stance on the hiring of previous offenders giving he's one of the largest employers in Gotham city. If his companies don't hire non violent offenders then isn't he part of the problem?
 
Poodlestrike said:
If he'd started in Kansas or Metropolis he wouldn't be breaking sound barriers by the time he hit Africa, he'd have done so on the flight over. I'm thinking he was close enough to get there quickly if something bad happened, but not so close as to be a provocation. Granted, that didn't really work out, but still.
Click to expand...

Sure, that is a possibility. Too bad snyder felt no need to set those boundaries and rules for something that played a very important part in the end with martha being kidnapped.
 
KonradLaw said:
The final fight with Doomsday made me realize I never again wants to see the "group of heroes vs armies of goons" shit ever again. Heroes working together against one enemy is so much more satysfing for a finale.
Click to expand...

That's my thought process as well. Faceless armies get tiresome. It worked here because there were only three players and a civilian; and it worked in Star Wars 7 because there was one antagonist, which then cuts to the X-wing team with a singular mission. Nothing more. Justice League better have compelling goals for each of the characters during its bombastic climax.
 
Dahbomb said:
This relates back to Man of Steel when Clark first discovered his hearing ability and was traumatized then Marth told him that if the world is too big then make it smaller like an island.

Lois Lane is his island now. I mean that's what most people assumed anyway but this deleted scene hammers home that point even more.


I think the scene might be too dark due to content of the cries for help. People dying, getting mugged/raped etc.
Click to expand...

That already happened in Superman Returns:

https://youtu.be/RFxsgJfux44?t=130

Sure, you don't "hear" the people dying and getting mugged, but the implications are the same.
 
Dahbomb said:
This is Zack Snyder we are talking about here. The content of his cry for help are going to be pretty damn brutal if they had to cut it out.
Click to expand...

Oh, I know Snyder's version is, um, different. I'm not arguing about why it was cut out at all. I just meant thematically similar scenes in 2 dissimilar movies.
 
Sethista said:
I like the ending of the avengers more. the army of goons was great to show what every one of the heroes is best at.

Hawkeye with a birdlike view supporting everyone, cap and the black widow on the ground on crowd control, iron man protecting the perimeter.... THat was very well done.

Same on ultron
Click to expand...
Ultron's final battle was an uncoordinated mess (much like the Doomsday fight in BvS). There was a lot more thought put into the action staging of the first Avengers film.
 
inky said:
Oh, I know Snyder's version is, um, different. I'm not arguing about why it was cut out at all. I just meant thematically similar scenes in 2 dissimilar movies.
Click to expand...

I think it's the opposite, really. Content-wise, yes, they're identical. Superman is, by sheer action mechanics, doing the same thing: listening to all the people in trouble and picking the only one that he can help.

But themewise, Superman Returns's scene is a commentary on a kind of moment of powerlessness Superman feels in not being able to help literally everyone, and his regret for leaving.

Now, we haven't seen Snyder's version of the scene if we're going to be fair about it. However, placing that scene at the moment where Superman is searching for his mom, and ignoring the cries for help on the basis that they aren't his mothers, depicts a very different kind of theme. Probably not one Synder intends, but rather than being regretful that he can't save everyone, Superman's issue is that he can't save the person who matters to him, implying he doesn't care as much about the others.
 
Veelk said:
I think it's the opposite, really. Content-wise, yes, they're identical. Superman is, by sheer action mechanics, doing the same thing: listening to all the people in trouble and picking the only one that he can help.

But themewise, Superman Returns's scene is a commentary on a kind of moment of powerlessness Superman feels in not being able to help literally everyone, and his regret for leaving.

Now, we haven't seen Snyder's version of the scene if we're going to be fair about it. However, placing that scene at the moment where Superman is searching for his mom, and ignoring the cries for help on the basis that they aren't his mothers, depicts a very different kind of theme. Probably not one Synder intends, but rather than being regretful that he can't save everyone, Superman's issue is that he can't save the person who matters to him, implying he doesn't care as much about the others.
Click to expand...
It actually sounds like a reiteration of one of the messages from the first Superman movie. That for all of his powers, he can't save everyone, especially the one person he desperately wants to save. Of course, that movie then dropped the ball by having Superman pull a power out of his ass to save Lois.

And I'll be honest, I cannot believe they cut that scene out of the theatrical cut. Superman is way too eager to fight Batman without it.
 
jackdoe said:
It actually sounds like a reiteration of one of the messages from the first Superman movie. That for all of his powers, he can't save everyone, especially the one person he desperately wants to save. Of course, that movie then dropped the ball by having Superman pull a power out of his ass to save Lois.

And I'll be honest, I cannot believe they cut that scene out of the theatrical cut. Superman is way too eager to fight Batman without it.
Click to expand...
From the way Snyder describes it, it sounds like it takes place before he goes to Lex Tower where Lois is thrown off, like he goes to smallville to talk to his mom and can't find her, figures out something is wrong, and is then alerted to the issue with Lois
 
Dead said:
From the way Snyder describes it, it sounds like it takes place before he goes to Lex Tower where Lois is thrown off, like he goes to smallville to talk to his mom and can't find her, figures out something is wrong, and is then alerted to the issue with Lois
Click to expand...
If that's the case, then it won't solve the eagerness issue (unless there's an additional scene that they cut) but would solve that WTF transition from mystery mountain to Metropolis for Superman.
 
jackdoe said:
If that's the case, then it won't solve the eagerness issue (unless there's an additional scene that they cut) but would solve that WTF transition from mystery mountain to Metropolis for Superman.
Click to expand...
Yeah, the cut from the mountains to then him in metropolis is way jarring. This fixes that.

As for the eagerness thing, I dont think there is a scene missing there, plus Lex literally set a timer
 
oh man, just remembered reading a spoiler on gaf that Jimmy Olson dies at the beginning of BvS. Totally forgot this and didn't think about this while seeing the movie, till it came to my mind just now. wtf Snyder.

We just did it as this little aside because we had been tracking where we thought the movies were gonna go, and we don’t have room for Jimmy Olsen in our big pantheon of characters, but we can have fun with him, right?
Click to expand...
 
Donos said:
oh man, just remembered reading a spoiler on gaf that Jimmy Olson dies at the beginning of BvS. Totally forgot this and didn't think about this while seeing the movie, till it came to my mind just now. wtf Snyder.
Click to expand...

That's a big warning in case Zack Snyder ever calls and asks you to have fun.




You gon' get murderized.
 
KonradLaw said:
The final fight with Doomsday made me realize I never again wants to see the "group of heroes vs armies of goons" shit ever again. Heroes working together against one enemy is so much more satysfing for a finale.
Click to expand...

the only issue i have with just a single big bad is it makes the non superpower people look useless. example batman did nothing in that fight till it was time for him to shoot the grenade.

it should be both that way every hero has a use
 
Sethista said:
I like the ending of the avengers more. the army of goons was great to show what every one of the heroes is best at.

Hawkeye with a birdlike view supporting everyone, cap and the black widow on the ground on crowd control, iron man protecting the perimeter.... THat was very well done.

Same on ultron
Click to expand...
Meh.. faceless 1000s of useless character for heroes to easily beat, how is that fun? Low key every Marvel movie has an awful 3rd act other than the glorious Winter Soldier.
 
KonradLaw said:
The final fight with Doomsday made me realize I never again wants to see the "group of heroes vs armies of goons" shit ever again. Heroes working together against one enemy is so much more satysfing for a finale.
Click to expand...

AOU made me realize this once they retread that ground.

Working together against one enemy is better, but please make that enemy an actual character next time.
 
Veelk said:
So make him NOT a dumb killing machine. They have no reason to marry themselves to the comics when you can make a better choice with it. They certainly don't have an issue staying faithful in other respects.
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Nah, I kind of liked a destructive dumb force looking threatening, especially due to Lex's madness. For once, since I hate dumb villains generally. The biggest problem is the link itself, Facebook Luthor being a disappointment to me. If OG Cranston Lex Luthor unleashed Doomsday, it would have been better for me.
 
LegendofDragoonLives said:
Nah, I kind of liked a destructive dumb force looking threatening, especially due to Lex's madness. For once, since I hate dumb villains generally. The biggest problem is the link itself, Facebook Luthor being a disappointment to me. If OG Cranston Lex Luthor unleashed Doomsday, it would have been better for me.
Click to expand...
You don't have to lose that to get some measure of personality.
 
LegendofDragoonLives said:
Nah, I kind of liked a destructive dumb force looking threatening, especially due to Lex's madness. For once, since I hate dumb villains generally. The biggest problem is the link itself, Facebook Luthor being a disappointment to me. If OG Cranston Lex Luthor unleashed Doomsday, it would have been better for me.
Click to expand...

It would've been even better if Lex had been a compelling antagonist on his own, and Doomsday had been left for a potential Man of Steel sequel where the whole arc could feel earnt.
 
Veelk said:
So make him NOT a dumb killing machine. They have no reason to marry themselves to the comics when you can make a better choice with it. They certainly don't have an issue staying faithful in other respects.
Click to expand...
But then people would be complaining about how they messed up Doomsday as it's not like the comics.
 
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