New clip presents the superhero registration debate in Captain America: Civil War

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Slayven said:
People really arguing over this "spoiler"

That is like being mad that when you google "winter soldier" the first thing that pops up is Bucky
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I dont mind this discussion because Im not personally on black out. BUT:

I do recall book readers of ASOIAF spoiling shit during early seasons of game of thrones when expressedly asked NOT to fucking do so; I remember getting upset about it and calling them out, and having them basically tell me that:

"Knowing this won't affect your enjoyment of the show at all."
or
"Well that's not THAT big of a spoiler"
or
"You are probably better off knowing that now, because the show did a shit job of explaining it"

or some other variation thereof. Basically telling me that I could fuck off for not wanting to know certain details. Having been on the receiving end of that, and understanding that ever so slightly modifying your topic title takes little to no effort and doesn't stifle discussion of the topic at all, that perhaps taking your fellow posters feelings on this matter to heart isn't such a bad thing. But oh well I guess.
 
wildfire said:
Treaties aren't laws. Noone is a citizen of the world government.

The better point someone else made is that you don't automatically have the right to choose how you maintain order. Even then this is wrong but it is much closer to the truth.

Cap's personal rights do not supersede the rights of everyone else who brought into the social and legal rules of their respective countries.

Cap has the potential to be self sufficient but he still has to negotiate with the people representing millions even a billion in 2 cases. He can't expect them to put up with his my way or the highway approach to peacekeeping just like these countries constantly don't put up with themselves in order to be more collaborative with each other.
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I didn't mean the treaty was the law. I'm talking about the laws of the places they choose to operate in. What you are saying is not different from what I said.

We don't even know the content of the accords right now.
 
inky said:
I didn't mean the treaty was the law. I'm talking about the laws of the places they choose to operate in. What you are saying is not different from what I said.

We don't even know the content of the accords right now.
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Right this whole thing get messy in the same way the politics of all fiction are messy. The filmmakers have complete control over how they portray the accords. If they want to they can make them awful, the people behind them corrupt, and in doing so frame Cap's side of the argument as unambiguously "good"

I don't know if they are, but any arguments about weather something is a good idea or not can't be reliant on "but Hydra could secretly be behind it and wouldn't that be bad" anymore than "but Zod was in the city Superman had to fight him there" was
 
The Technomancer said:
Right this whole thing get messy in the same way the politics of all fiction are messy. The filmmakers have complete control over how they portray the accords. If they want to they can make them awful, the people behind them corrupt, and in doing so frame Cap's side of the argument as unambiguously "good"

I don't know if they are, but any arguments about weather something is a good idea or not can't be reliant on "but Hydra could secretly be behind it and wouldn't that be bad" anymore than "but Zod was in the city Superman had to fight him there" was
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Making the accords extremely realistic, without any hint of malicious intent behind them or behind the scenes evil masterminding, also opens a whole can of worms. If this aspect of the Marvel Cinematic Universe suddenly becomes realistic, what aspects of that world suddenly start seeming ludicrous in comparison?
 
I do love this clip. You can tell Tony is just so sick of Cap's argument just by his body language. And the argument between them is earned.

And unlike the actual Civil War comic, both sides are pretty even. We know why Cap doesn't trust the government, and we know why Tony thinks now is the time to regulate.
 
The only thing between Hydra and total world domination was Cap's judgment and willingness to tell his "superiors" to suck his balls.

MartyStu said:
Man, Steve is sort of a shitty soldier.

Which is not new, but it is hilarious.
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You mean because he has a conscience? Doesn't that make him the best soldier?

Nokagi said:
Here ya go. It's the best you'll probably ever get.

NLfLZTh.gif
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That's not the Iron Spider. It has four arms like the superior Superior Spider-Man suit.
 
Team Iron man. The world must be protected from those destructive mutants. Plus their team have black Panther and black widow (and spider man?).
 
TAJ said:
The only thing between Hydra and total world domination was Cap's judgment.
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Which works great as a dramatic basis for a movie featuring a character we love. But more than any other movie in the MCU (and more than almost all other superhero movies) Civil War seems to be wearing its relevance to real political concerns blatantly on its sleeve. And in the context of real political concerns "I am the vanguard against corruption" is said more by the Kim Davis' of the world than heroic figures

It thrusts the uncomfortable problem of extrajudicial vigilantism that's at the core of many superhero stories into the spotlight. Normally we sort of ignore that because, hey, its a fantasy. I really do hope the film is an actual examination of that, and it really does sound like it might be from some impressions.
 
The Technomancer said:
Which works great as a dramatic basis for a movie featuring a character we love. But more than any other movie in the MCU (and more than almost all other superhero movies) Civil War seems to be wearing its relevance to real political concerns blatantly on its sleeve. And in the context of real political concerns "I am the vanguard against corruption" is said more by the Kim Davis' of the world than heroic figures

It thrusts the uncomfortable problem of extrajudicial vigilantism that's at the core of many superhero stories into the spotlight. Normally we sort of ignore that because, hey, its a fantasy. I really do hope the film is an actual examination of that, and it really does sound like it might be from some impressions.
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I really want to believe that you are right, but if that were the case, then I feel like the conversation should have gone like this:

Captain America: The safest hands are still our own.
Iron Man: And how will you know when they aren't?
 
I'm really looking forward to what the Russo's have in store. More importantly, the options that Cap will be presented with. In the comic books, Cap is sometimes pigeonholed into an insufferable bastard. He is honestly the closest thing to a Republican super hero. He's either YES or NO and offers very few alternatives. In the Civil War series he seemed to know what right and wrong were, but offered no alternatives for the super heroes until the very end. Made him come off like a stubborn hard ass.

Heroes: Cap a meteor is gonna hit the earth, we can divert it to hit China or Russia. We've thought of every other solution but this is it.
Cap: No, there's gotta be another way.
Heroes: No really Cap that's it, Reed, Banner, Strange, T'Challa have all been stud...
Cap: NO, Too many innocent people will
Meteor Kills Everybody
The End.
 
FTF said:
Can I at least be team iron man because I think they'd win in a fight?
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Of course they would in. Hell, any one member of team Iron Man could beat Cap's entire team.

Iron Man
War Machine
Black Panther
Vision
Black Widow
Spider-Man

They are gonna have to really sell me on how it is that this isn't a complete ass kicking. Unless Cap somehow has Captain Marvel in his back pocket, this is a joke fight. Ant Man is legitimately their best chance so far.
 
Hades Hotgun said:
Of course they would in. Hell, any one member of team Iron Man could beat Cap's entire team.

Iron Man
War Machine
Black Panther
Vision
Black Widow
Spider-Man

They are gonna have to really sell me on how it is that this isn't a complete ass kicking. Unless Cap somehow has Captain Marvel in his back pocket, this is a joke fight. Ant Man is legitimately their best chance so far.
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Iron Man, War Machine, and Black Widow beating Cap's team. #TeamShitHeadStark has jokes.

Widow, Spiderman, Vision, and Black Panther are either going to switch sides or just leave.
 
The Technomancer said:
Right this whole thing get messy in the same way the politics of all fiction are messy. The filmmakers have complete control over how they portray the accords. If they want to they can make them awful, the people behind them corrupt, and in doing so frame Cap's side of the argument as unambiguously "good"

I don't know if they are, but any arguments about weather something is a good idea or not can't be reliant on "but Hydra could secretly be behind it and wouldn't that be bad" anymore than "but Zod was in the city Superman had to fight him there" was
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It's not even about specifically Hydra. The MCU government has shown that it's incompetent on an extremely unrealistic and cartoonist degree, to the extent that Cap is justified.

This is a government that was willing to nuke the avengers against every reccomendation, lead an armed manhunt through multiple countries just to grab the hulk, and was infiltrated en masse by nazis and apparently had been for many years.

Cap would be wrong if this was the real world government. But in the context of the dramatic MCU, his concerns are valid.
 
mocolostrocolos said:
Wanda is an Omega Level mutant, not that we should take that into the MCU.

I mean, she fucked up alone the whole Marvel Universe in House of M.
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i definitely think she is "nerfed" in these movies. unless they are going to go the she hasn't really learned to use her powers yet route.
 
Sax1031 said:
i definitely think she is "nerfed" in these movies. unless they are going to go the she hasn't really learned to use her powers yet route.
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So far we've only seen mind control, telekinesis and magic fireballs.

I wonder if we'll get full reality control.

She could just prevent anything from existing. I don't think they're going that route.
 
LMAO @ Tony's argument...

"If we don't do it now it will be done to us later".


That is flimsy as hell. Sounds more like he wants to get this over with rather than something he will fight to death over.
 
Dahbomb said:
LMAO @ Tony's argument...

"If we don't do it now it will be done to us later".


That is flimsy as hell. Sounds more like he wants to get this over with rather than something he will fight to death over.
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And start profiting off of many more juicy government contracts. They didn't get too deep into it in the comics, but I'm pretty sure that Richards and Stark were making money off the whole thing.

I doubt that was the actual intent, but it was there. He's still a profiteer.
 
Iron Man looks cool and I like when he's actually fighting bad guys.

But when he's out of his suit, I find him completely insufferable. He's pretty much the least sympathetic "hero" in this whole mess.
 
Dahbomb said:
LMAO @ Tony's argument...

"If we don't do it now it will be done to us later".


That is flimsy as hell. Sounds more like he wants to get this over with rather than something he will fight to death over.
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It's not really flimsy when they've been leapfrogged by the WSC in the past (Avengers 1). Nor is it unexpected that if the Sokovia Accord (or whatever it's called) doesn't go through, governments will still attempt potentially less diplomatic regulation in the future.

I think Cap shows the greater ignorance in that clip, and you can see it on Evans' face that even he isn't really buying his own side.
 
I want a superhero movie where they deliberately let the bad guys destroy like half the fucking planet, and be like "well we probably could have stopped them but you'd have bitched about us anyway."
 
Omegasquash said:
And start profiting off of many more juicy government contracts. They didn't get too deep into it in the comics, but I'm pretty sure that Richards and Stark were making money off the whole thing.

I doubt that was the actual intent, but it was there. He's still a profiteer.
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I want the f4 so badly to be in the MCU just to see Richards interacting with Stark. Two assholes at work.

Throw Stranger there too and it would be perfect.
 
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