IceBringer
Banned
#TeamBlackPanther
#TeamKillBucky
So hopefully Black Panther kills Bucky
#TeamKillBucky
So hopefully Black Panther kills Bucky
New clip presents the superhero registration debate in Captain America: Civil War
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DrunkShogun
Member
Have to give credit to Chris Evans because l always thought captain America was the cheesy patriot character but can honestly say he's my favourite character in the marvel universes. Team cap all the way.
I just want to see the Iron Spider, but the more clips I see I highly doubt it at this point.
Here ya go. It's the best you'll probably ever get.
Here ya go. It's the best you'll probably ever get.
Yeah that's nice and all, but now do the SUPERIOR Spider-Man outfit.
That looks great.
NHarmonic.
Member
So there's only one reasonable option right? #TeamIronMan
The Artisan
Member
team avengers
Hades Hotgun
Banned
This about sums up the reality of the situation and also expresses why people who are pro-cap/anti-reg are so utterly baffling. There is no defense for the unregulated use of power by a group of unelected people in violation of the individual and collective rights of citizens and states. It is an asinine proposition, but it will be magically right in a constructed narrative designed to appeal to the irrational distrust within the population at large.
"Governments elected by, and representative of, the people are bad, give us super powered god kings instead!
The government can't be trusted! Let me drive to see this movie on these government built highways in my government approved vehicle eating government approved food in a government secured land while also hating the government because cognitive dissonance!"
...So what you're saying is that you're #TeamIronMan?
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
I thought we were brothers
AlfredX1990
Banned
Team Thanos
Sibersk Esto
Banned
It's pretty cool that this is actually being discussed.
blame space, noooooooooooo
Extra Sauce
Member
I'm starting to be concerned that they will make me hate MCU Tony Stark, and I love MCU Tony Stark.
The Artisan
Member
wrong movie bruh. wait a couple years
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
What the comic books did to Tony during Civil War is far worse than anything we've seen from these Civil War trailers so far.
NHarmonic.
Member
This a great argument.
Wheeljack539
Member
I don't think they will. Marvel's stated that they wanted people after they see the movie to walk out and be able to argue which one was right so they can't quite kill Tony's character to do this.
Don't encourage this shit.
BronsonLee
Member
Bitch you like TMNT
it'd be funny if it ended up a better movie than this!
And there's no 'teams' or rabid fanboys for that movie.
You're a goddamn mark Bronson.
Keep dreaming, mark.
Why? Winter Soldier made it clear that Steve wouldn't agree with extreme oversight and Ultron showed the guilt Tony felt at his actions having reverberating effects that would lead to everyone dying and blaming him for it.
Treaties aren't laws. Noone is a citizen of the world government.
The better point someone else made is that you don't automatically have the right to choose how you maintain order. Even then this is wrong but it is much closer to the truth.
Cap's personal rights do not supersede the rights of everyone else who brought into the social and legal rules of their respective countries.
Cap has the potential to be self sufficient but he still has to negotiate with the people representing millions even a billion in 2 cases. He can't expect them to put up with his my way or the highway approach to peacekeeping just like these countries constantly don't put up with themselves in order to be more collaborative with each other.
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
X-men do the libertarian thing a lot better, since they have the allegory of racism where a lot of people really do hate and fear them and bad things could conceivably happen under a big registration plan where you're put under strict scrutiny from birth just for your genes and if the racist public creates a racist government, they'll use any tiny mistake found in that scrutiny to put you in chains.
Unfortunately Captain America's argument sounds a lot more like the type of people that hate that the government doesn't always do what they want, and they need a bunch of guns in case they need to have a revolution for being taxed too much.
He's shit.
Discotheque
Banned
Team Stark. not only is he like 1000% more charismatic alone than the entirety of team cap but also even going on arguments...he's actually right in this scenario.
i know the comics play it out differently with totalitarianism and racist allegories and apparently makes Stark a huge shit heel but in here....cap's argument is literally the same thing pro-second amendment people have been spouting lmao.
i know the comics play it out differently with totalitarianism and racist allegories and apparently makes Stark a huge shit heel but in here....cap's argument is literally the same thing pro-second amendment people have been spouting lmao.
LegendofLex
Member
I like how they've made Captain America a stereotypical stand-in for people who hail from the same era that he's from.
also his name has America in it.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
That's...sort of where I come down. "I will defend my right to exercise extra-judicial force against the perceived evils of the world" comes out of the mouths of shitheels in real life
OmegaSmash
Member
Character development, what's that?
Did Tony ever see repercussions for his illegal action from Iron Man 1? Outside of a stern talking to by Pepper and a few jokes thrown at Terrence Howard? No? Then did he change his mind purely so that he would come into conflict with Captain America?
Vault Dweller 111
Member
Cap has the right idea.
Tony has the more awesome team.
#teamCapwinsbutBlackPantherandSpideychangeteams
Tony has the more awesome team.
#teamCapwinsbutBlackPantherandSpideychangeteams
Hades Hotgun
Banned
Not at all. I love both characters and the rest of the Avengers and Marvel Universe pretty much equally.
If anything, it is just that this seems like it will be a poorly thought out story point but I hope the move is still good.
-------------------------------------------
On the original topic of the trailer though, I would love for this to be a genuinely thoughtful debate about two reasonable choices that can be rationally argued for. However, that seems unlikely given the tone of the trailer and the way that Cap's argument seems made to appeal broadly to people who don't bother to think about the (admittedly, entirely fictional) issue.
I assume that there will be some ridiculous element to these accords that makes them bad and I think the U.N. really would not be an effective body for the task of overseeing the Avengers.
Sadly, that probably isn't the argument that Cap will make. He will spout platitudes, as he does in this trailer, about freedom, despite the fact that he is arguing for his right to violate other people's freedoms. It is essentially the same logic as the religious liberty bill in North Carolina.
When your freedom of choice is the right to choose to violate someone else's rights, then what you are talking about is not freedom but rather dominion.
I think that there should simply be an acceptance that super heroes be accountable for violating laws to the same degree as anyone else. So if a superhero works in cooperation with the law, then they have no problem, whereas if they act as a vigilante, then there is a conflict. As such, they can be accountable for casualties and property damage for which the can be found to be legally responsible either through negligence or malice.
An example of this would be the Avengers, the X-Men, the Fantastic Four, and the Justice League. All of whom had direct or at least implicit governmental approval and operated legally throughout much of their respective publication histories.
On the other hand, the Punisher, X-Force, etc... did not do so, and were rightly treated as criminals by the fictional authorities as well as other superhero groups and as anti-heroes by the storytellers. This didn't make them evil and it didn't require that they always be wrong. It just meant that they were outlaws.
A few characters were in something of a gray area, like Spider-Man, and this made for great storytelling, by dealing with a fairly believable scenario in which certain people would be seen as both hero and vigilante by different groups.
For years this was the accepted state of things in super hero comics, until Mark Millar stumbled in and decided to get some cheap mileage out of blowing up that reasonable status quo in his characteristically classy way. I believe he had a bunch of school children get murdered on a reality tv show. It's not quite up there with the forced incest rape and boobytrapped wombs that he would get to later, but it still has the same general feel.
Mark Waid's Daredevil actually dealt with this whole thing very recently from both sides, as DD went after a vigilante anti-hero while working in conjunction with the San Francisco police. Prior to that however, Daredevil found himself up against the police force and even the entire legal system in New York City, after it had been infiltrated by bad guys. In that case he used the law to unmask and defeat them. At no point did Waid resort to having Daredevil insist that he had a right to be free of accountability to the local laws. Even when Matt illegally entered Wakanda to extract American prisoners, he still used the law and understood his place within it.
I don't expect the writers, or fans, or really any sane person to think about this issue as much as I do, but I wish they would think about it a little bit more than they do.
The mutant registration act absolutely works better, and very much because of the reasons you posted. I think the need for the act can be defended by the inherent danger of mutants, which is well presented in the stories, and the possibility for discrimination is so strong and the threat of that so real that it makes it a much more interesting plot point and serves to open up great avenues for storytelling.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
His arc across five films is actually pretty good. He goes from the guy who doesn't give a shit to the guy who gives too many shits, and wants to protect the whole world with Ultron. And screwing up on that magnitude finally convinces him: no one person should have this much power
Tesseract
Banned
well, it beats getting your head cut off
When you put it like that it works. Too bad Joss Whedon completely dropped the ball in Age of Ultron to complete the character arc. But I do see your point.
Whedon didn't drop the ball in any way with Tony's development.
Frostinferno
Member
His character arc was handled just fine in AoU.
flaxknuckles
Member
I hope Bucky blasts War Machine out of the air and then his suit explodes, destroying his face. Iron Man then wastes Bucky. Spidey shoves Cap's shield up his ass, causing ruptures in Captain America's ****. Then Falcon is elected as the new Captain America and War Machine gets facial reconstruction and is revealed as Terrance Howard.
Considering the place that Tony needed to be in for Civil War to work, he did. With the way Age of Ultron was made, and the way it ended, Tony's development in that movie was pretty much a:
"I don't trust anyone to do the job, so I'll do it all myself by building Ultron,"
Decision bites him in the ass.
A bunch of interpersonal bickering within the team at Hawkeye's farm and Avengers tower during Vision's birth
Some bonding before heading out to Sokovia where he then he learns to trust other people, "We'll beat you together",
And in the end he hands off the keys to the Avengers to Cap, since he trusts him to protect the world.
This kind of Tony wouldn't be the kind to suddenly put all his faith in the UN.
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