SuperStiltzkin
Member
Assuming those are plastic curtains and she's in some cyborg autopsy room.
First look at ScarJo as the Major in Ghost in the Shell
- Thread starter Blader
- Start date
- Status
Assuming those are plastic curtains and she's in some cyborg autopsy room.
GavinUK86
Member
I guess. Psylocke in X-Men The Last Stand looks more like Motoko to me than Scar Jo does here.
Huh, I didn't even consider that they were curtains. Now that image looks completely different.
Just_myles
Member
I can live with casting. It's everyone else that is involved that has me worried.
Smiles and Cries
Member
netflix day one
Subpar Spatula
Banned
I don't think a lot of Ghost in the Shell fans have read the source material or understand the meaning behind it all.
Major Kusanagi is a cyborg with multiple backgrounds who questions life and life as a cyborg. This isn't a Japanese thing, Japan is the setting. The themes are universal and can be applied every where.
There are many animes like this where the only reason they exist in Japan is because the creators are from Japan:
Princess Mononoke
Tokyo Godfathers
Perfect Blue
Almost every slice of life series
Almost every battle shounen
There are even examples of animes that are adaptions of various other sources like When Marnie Was There.
This would seem wrong if something was Americanized when the purpose behind the piece is about that country like Akira or The Wind Rises, but you have a really big hill in front of you if you want to convince people the themes and ideas presented in Ghost in the Shell are Japan based.
Creative team behind it doesn't have a good resume, though.
Major Kusanagi is a cyborg with multiple backgrounds who questions life and life as a cyborg. This isn't a Japanese thing, Japan is the setting. The themes are universal and can be applied every where.
There are many animes like this where the only reason they exist in Japan is because the creators are from Japan:
Princess Mononoke
Tokyo Godfathers
Perfect Blue
Almost every slice of life series
Almost every battle shounen
There are even examples of animes that are adaptions of various other sources like When Marnie Was There.
This would seem wrong if something was Americanized when the purpose behind the piece is about that country like Akira or The Wind Rises, but you have a really big hill in front of you if you want to convince people the themes and ideas presented in Ghost in the Shell are Japan based.
Creative team behind it doesn't have a good resume, though.
WrenchNinja
Member
they are drawing their own people. some people are just so deluded that they just only see white
The Elite
BOSS
Despite the casting of the Major the rest of the cast is diverse. Not an all white cast at all.
UnemployedVillain
Member
Of course as long as the main character is white who gives a shit about the rest lol
Razgriz-Specter
Member
Alex_Mexico
Member
She was black haired in the 1995 film. I think they're going towards that look with a hint of purple dye in the tips. That's what I can tell from that pic at least.
Alex_Mexico
Member
You can tell her costume is lame from that shot? We barely see her shoulder and neck, man. Jesus!
Slamtastic
Member
Remember Ramona Flowers? This is her now. Feel old yet?
It looks like she's wearing a duffle bag
Prototype Viktor
Member
Clearly what they modeling after
BudokaiMR2
Member
So, after my morning meetings today I decided to ask some of my co-workers their opinions on this adaptation and the casting in particular. To give some background, I am the only foreigner working an office with Japanese artists and designers who have all have 20+ years experience in the game industry. Stuff like this is their livelihood and at least half of them have Tachikomas figures on their desk.
First I asked what they thought of the shot released. They had all already seen it this morning before I brought it up, so I guess it is already making news here. I am almost always the first one to bring up Hollywood news, such as with new movie announcements and trailers so I was a bit surprised.
Everyone I asked basically said they liked the shot and appreciated that they are at least giving her the same iconic hairstyle and look. That seemed really important to the two artists I talked to in particular.
I then asked directly what they thought of casting a white actress as The Major.
Their responses all basically boiled down to this:
1) Hollywood is putting up the money so it up to them who to pick who they want and they appreciate that they care enough about the property to cough up the cash for a A-lister. If this were a domestically created movie they would take issue with picking a white actress, but that was because of the caveat that it would not have the budget to hire a good one.
2) The theme of GiTS makes it a non-issue at the core. The Major specifically has had to go through dozens of bodies throughout her life and taking issue with what one of them looks like is superficial and missing the point. One designer basically said if there is a universe where manga/anime is real The Major is probably looking down and laughing at people taking issue with something as minor as her skin color. Basically, she would be the last person to take issue with her appearance to that extent.
3) ScarJo has proven herself as a capable action lead so they think it is a good casting overall. When I brought up Rinko Kikuchi they basically just laughed and said 'no way if you can get ScarJo'.
I then went on to ask what the general consensus from Japanese fans was far as they had seen. They were surprised when I brought up the fact that people overseas were taking issue with it as 'whitewashing' as they haven't seen that response from Japanese fans. They admitted part of that is just because everyone expects for Hollywood to do things like that to make the movie more appealing.
One thing was interesting was how they compared it to the AoT movie made domestically. According to them that was an example of casting Asian actors in roles that they shouldn't have, to the point that it basically destroyed the entire point of a single character. I don't know much about AoT as I haven't watched or read it yet so I was having trouble following. I guess in the original a character named Mikasa(?) was the last Asian left (like on the planet I guess?) and that casting Asian actors for everyone ruined the setting and more specifically her characterization.
These are obviously just anecdotes from a handful of people, but I thought it might be worth sharing.
First I asked what they thought of the shot released. They had all already seen it this morning before I brought it up, so I guess it is already making news here. I am almost always the first one to bring up Hollywood news, such as with new movie announcements and trailers so I was a bit surprised.
Everyone I asked basically said they liked the shot and appreciated that they are at least giving her the same iconic hairstyle and look. That seemed really important to the two artists I talked to in particular.
I then asked directly what they thought of casting a white actress as The Major.
Their responses all basically boiled down to this:
1) Hollywood is putting up the money so it up to them who to pick who they want and they appreciate that they care enough about the property to cough up the cash for a A-lister. If this were a domestically created movie they would take issue with picking a white actress, but that was because of the caveat that it would not have the budget to hire a good one.
2) The theme of GiTS makes it a non-issue at the core. The Major specifically has had to go through dozens of bodies throughout her life and taking issue with what one of them looks like is superficial and missing the point. One designer basically said if there is a universe where manga/anime is real The Major is probably looking down and laughing at people taking issue with something as minor as her skin color. Basically, she would be the last person to take issue with her appearance to that extent.
3) ScarJo has proven herself as a capable action lead so they think it is a good casting overall. When I brought up Rinko Kikuchi they basically just laughed and said 'no way if you can get ScarJo'.
I then went on to ask what the general consensus from Japanese fans was far as they had seen. They were surprised when I brought up the fact that people overseas were taking issue with it as 'whitewashing' as they haven't seen that response from Japanese fans. They admitted part of that is just because everyone expects for Hollywood to do things like that to make the movie more appealing.
One thing was interesting was how they compared it to the AoT movie made domestically. According to them that was an example of casting Asian actors in roles that they shouldn't have, to the point that it basically destroyed the entire point of a single character. I don't know much about AoT as I haven't watched or read it yet so I was having trouble following. I guess in the original a character named Mikasa(?) was the last Asian left (like on the planet I guess?) and that casting Asian actors for everyone ruined the setting and more specifically her characterization.
These are obviously just anecdotes from a handful of people, but I thought it might be worth sharing.
I guess. Psylocke in X-Men The Last Stand looks more like Motoko to me than Scar Jo does here.
Huh, I didn't even consider that they were curtains. Now that image looks completely different.
Slamtastic
Member
I think this is a really solid series of tweets about the inherent Japaneseness of GiTS. https://twitter.com/jontsuei/status/720803388355530753
PatThePassive
Member
Its an artificial body and its based on a pleasure model with military grade insides to blend in and not stick out as a police artificial body. Its not whitewashing if in that's how it was originally written
Subpar Spatula
Banned
Tech advancement isn't something explored in GitS 'cause it seems they're all on equal footing IE it seems a lot of shit is cross nation with America.
unholyrevenger72
Banned
Cabbagehead
Member
Crazy people trying to justify this movie. Happens all the time, with this stuff.
An when its bad like always a good chunk of the time. We ask "Why did they make this?".
Also japan does not have a great track record either with scfi adaptions of their own content. So i don't think i can take their word for it either.
An when its bad like always a good chunk of the time. We ask "Why did they make this?".
Also japan does not have a great track record either with scfi adaptions of their own content. So i don't think i can take their word for it either.
DryEyeRelief
Member
These are obviously just anecdotes from a handful of people, but I thought it might be worth sharing.
dragonball evolution deja vu
I'm trying to pretend this shit doesn't exist for as long as possible. I'll admit they got the look down: color, hair, jacket, etc. But right now I've got no confidence in the direction of this project. Somehow I don't even think Kitano is gonna be able to salvage it. He'll probably just do the best with what's handed to him.
Personally I don't think GITS is an inherently Japanese story. It's a cyberpunk cop story. I do think however that directly using the GITS license and then casting white actors is an erasure of Asian faces. I also think this just speaks of typical Hollywood casting, like not much imagination was put into who might actually be best for the role. That's what makes me think this is going to end up being a typical sci-fi action flick instead of a heady cyberpunk mystery.
And that's the thing: I'd love to see Hollywood do a full-blown cyberpunk thing with careful application of today's special effects technology. It could look incredible. It's the one reason I'm even slightly interested in Blade Runner 2. I'd almost rather Hollywood do an original story that's just based on a story by Masamune or Oshii, like how The Departed is a remake of Infernal Affairs, or how Black Swan looks A LOT like Perfect Blue.
Personally I don't think GITS is an inherently Japanese story. It's a cyberpunk cop story. I do think however that directly using the GITS license and then casting white actors is an erasure of Asian faces. I also think this just speaks of typical Hollywood casting, like not much imagination was put into who might actually be best for the role. That's what makes me think this is going to end up being a typical sci-fi action flick instead of a heady cyberpunk mystery.
And that's the thing: I'd love to see Hollywood do a full-blown cyberpunk thing with careful application of today's special effects technology. It could look incredible. It's the one reason I'm even slightly interested in Blade Runner 2. I'd almost rather Hollywood do an original story that's just based on a story by Masamune or Oshii, like how The Departed is a remake of Infernal Affairs, or how Black Swan looks A LOT like Perfect Blue.
BudokaiMR2
Member
Well he has a point on a certain level, but it doesn't take into account the personal characterization of The Major IMO. A big part of her character is the disconnect between her soul (ghost) and her body (shell). It is titled Ghost in the Shell that for a very obvious reason and not just because it sounds cool.
And as much as I love high tech government espionage, I have personally always been more interested in the philosophical aspects of GiTS about how societies deals with transhumanism. I think most fans would make the case that the series has always been at its best when it is working within that theme. It is part of personal preference however.
Whether or not the movie can acutally play on those themes in a meaningful way is something I am not confident about, but I am not willing to
write it off just because they chose a white actress to play Kusanagi.
PatThePassive
Member
Even in the original movie Motoko and the body the puppet master enters have the exact same face and eyes the only difference between the two is the hair.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
Do you think ScarJo will wear super revealing clothes throughout this movie and casually hangout naked?
unholyrevenger72
Banned
Does it matter who it's for? Lucy, a mediocre, franchise-less RATED-R movie no less, made almost half a billion dollars with only Scar Jo's star power, and i guess Luc Besson's fan base.
PatThePassive
Member
If its an exact live adaptation with the same music and is basically a shot for shot remake I believe it could have a great following and would love to see it. When I pitch the movie to others they back down after they hear its an anime. however it probably wont be good but goddammit more GITS is never a bad thing.
Finaika
Member
Why would she do that?
Shouta
Member
Right. This is the most interesting aspect about all this to me. It actually runs counter to one of the major things that GITS focuses on across all of its iterations.
To me, It's disappointing to not see an Asian actress in the role. At the same time, it doesn't make me mad, just a bit sad, because of the content of the series.
I don't think he makes any real good argument about the core themes and ideas behind GITS being uniquely Japanese at all. He describes the context in which it was created but he doesn't really talk about GITS directly.
Cabbagehead
Member
An you better believe that she will play herself in this movie. Not the character, really don't think i have the confident in her ability to deliver the dialogue, themes, about personal worth and the intellectual talking points that are Transhumanism. Plus Scarjo is oversatuated in my opinion and i would have been totally fine with someone else a little less in movies all the time but with better performances. An a better director, producers and writers.
(Those last three scare me to death, that the heart of GITS will go straight throw their heads and they won't trust us to understand whats going on because they couldn't)
Its a weighty topic and concept and if its not presented right? then the whole movie will fall apart and it won't be GITS. Because its not all about action at its core that's just the reaction, so if they fuck that up and think we need action every fifth minutes then they might aswell put this on Red Box.
veloxStrix
Banned
Of course, Lucy also had a pretty insane marketing campaign, lots of press before it came out, trailers in almost every movie, and that generic kind of premise that appeals to most people. But mostly star power.
You guys kill me with these movie threads. I can't stay out of them but I can't bear to read them sometimes.
Let me tell you a story. I once took three years of Japanese in High School. It was a private school and we had a lot of people from all over the country - all over the world even. In this Japanese course, there was this one Chinese boy; comes from new money, lived with his sister in their own apartment, etc. Nice guy, really. Never flaunted his money around, always willing to help out. But he had one issue. He was an expert on Asian culture. Despite the fact that he had NEVER actually been to an Asian country, despite the fact that he was born in California, this guy had to voice his opinion on every single issue that was related to anything Asian. As is usually the case in these stories, he was very often wrong (and he was right sometimes as well, in his defense). He thought he was seeing things through the Asian point-of-view, but he was really just seeing things through the Californian point-of-view with a slight Asian tinge.
That's about all this tweet reminds me of.
PatThePassive
Member
In the movie she wears an optic camo skin suit under her gear normally when needed she uses it. in the TV series they gave her a swimsuit type version and then just said no go back to the skin suit but its black not basically see through
Subpar Spatula
Banned
It's weird because other people wear camo gear that they can effectively work in as well.
unholyrevenger72
Banned
Suit? No, the optic camo was built into her skin in the movie thus being naked.
- Status