You missed his point. Yeah, he joked about blowing up the door, but that wasn't the crux of it. The point was that at one point in the game, you can get through a locked door through a contextual time rewind. Other times, you can't. That is sloppy game design.
Angry Joe Quantum Break Review.
- Thread starter Gamezone
- Start date
You missed his point. Yeah, he joked about blowing up the door, but that wasn't the crux of it. The point was that at one point in the game, you can get through a locked door through a contextual time rewind. Other times, you can't. That is sloppy game design.
I do think talking about how well a particular style-use in a game worked out should rely on having experienced them in context. Similarly, saying on principle that a story format is good/bad is a weak perspective in a discussion about a specific game, especially using that as a counterpoint to people who did see it themselves.
Gravy Boat
Member
Your comparison doesn't work. The TLoU comic is external from the game. It's entirely optional. The episodes in QB are part of the game that you purchased. Wether or not they're optional from a narrative perspective is almost irrelevant. They're a part of the game and a part that I think is done badly. If they want to tell a different story within the same universe, seperate the two and let people acquire them seperately or find a way to integrate the story into the actual game.
I disagree, I don't need to play it to know whether or not I think 20 minute episodes at the end of each chapter is something I'll enjoy, especially in the age of YouTube where I can extensively check out a game before buying it. I'm not talking about a gameplay decision here, this is something I can easily come to a decision on without playing since the part Im talking about doesn't actually involve playing.
Or even higher level:
-He really didn't like the TV show quality wise
-He thought the fusion of Game / TV worked against the actual game
-he felt that having large chunks of world-building in emails in action game was fucking dumb and ruined the pacing
- he didn't care for any character arch
.. And then there's the minor stuff.
Honestly, people are just having a hard time swallowing the fact that the game is not the revered classic that they want it to be, trying to devalue his opinion based on how he plays, or on his personal stake in things, when he actually goes to great lenghts to show and explain how this game fails. People who are too invested to comprehend that their opinion is not shared, AND less important than a public figure like Joe's. it's sad really. And funny.
Goose_Se7en
Banned
Although I continue to defend the live action scenes and will keep doing so, the game certainly isn't without its flaws this being one of them.
I always liken it to the GTA series. How do you get into a vehicle in GTA games? On console, by pressing the Y/Square button.
GTA has set the standard -mostly- on how you enter vehicles in GTA, now imagine it being different car to car. That's off putting because the devs have trained the player "hey this works like this" then if they change it up, it can be jarring.
Same principle applies to Quantum Break and here Remedy failed. Agree with this part of Joe's assessment 100%.
Multiple pages in a row it's been pointed out that his example was wrong. In fact, that area is all kinds of jacked up.
The area he shows where you can...is part of a stutter/broken time.
The area you can't isn't suffering from broken time or a stutter.
I guess this will have to be pointed out on every page from here on out.
He had a few valid points, that one was incorrect with the examples he gave.
At least the people that have actually played the game are bringing up some good points and backing them up with info directly from the game...that they actually played.
I also disagree with his AI thing. I've only seen the AI be "stupid" a couple times. 99% of the time they're pretty darn smart. I wouldn't even think to list the AI as a negative. They flank like champs, rush you if they find an opening, and retreat (if they're able).
The game never crashed on me....in 24+ hours of play to this point.
If this game were not an exclusive we wouldn't be discussing this. A lot of people had a lot riding on this game emotionally and are upset that it isn't the AAA blockbuster it's been hyped as for 3 years. When the defense is "he's playing wrong" or "hard is the only difficulty to play it on" then the game failed in delivering to 90% of its audience and deserves the average scores it received.
What would be the difference if they let you read the comic in the game itself?
And commenting on how badly the episodes are based on ... what, exactly?
It's explained that Jack's power to rewind time is limited to 'time triggers', its not a use whenever on whatever type of power. It's never something he has total control over or completely understands. It's never shown to be. Some time triggers he cant manipulate at all.
Just for some context: Some objects are like stuck in a stutter of time. Jack can move them in a state they were during a different moment temporarily and the objects will then reset back shortly after.
Jack does not have an universal time reversal power to rewind objects in general that randomly doesn't work. And the game never implies otherwise.
Gravy Boat
Member
If it were in the game then my views would be the same. If you're going to put story into the gamein one form or another, actually integrate it into the game play. If you want it to be some separate optional thing, then keep them separate.
I'm not even commenting on how bad the cutscenes are in terms of acting or whatever. I'm talking about story relating to the game being tacked on in a way that takes me out of the game for 20 minutes at a time. I don't need to play the game to know that's not something I'd enjoy. If they're going to go through the effort of creating these characters and giving them a story, seperating them from the game is a poor decision in my opinion. I'm not sure why you think I need to play the game to come to that opinion. We're talking about an element of the game that doesn't involve gameplay and is essentially a way of delivering narrative. Even if the narrative is good, I don't think that's a good way of presenting it to the player.
Goose_Se7en
Banned
But you don't have a sense of the ratios between gameplay and episodes, or how much they interact and on what level. You're just planting your flag in the ground that it doesn't work, or at least won't for you.
That's your opinion formed in a bubble of limited information, but shared with people who might know more. So I don't know, I guess you don't like it.
The Jackdog
Member
have you played it? its contextualized in the form of a puzzle. no other time does some door lock behind you or something like that.
you cant just go around rewinding things and then suddenly cant rewind this one door
hes straight up wrong
Soapbox Killer
Grand Nagus
I loved this game and I think it is very much based on if the story grabs you or not. Its an experience tied to the narrative in a way not yet perfected but this is by far and away the closest to that mark. A solid 8/9 game.
Plus his name is "Angry" Joe, he makes his bones on gaming anger. I take his reviews with a grain of salt. But to be fair on the other side, I purchased an XboxOne (2 days ago) to play QB so take what I say with a pinch of pepper.
Plus his name is "Angry" Joe, he makes his bones on gaming anger. I take his reviews with a grain of salt. But to be fair on the other side, I purchased an XboxOne (2 days ago) to play QB so take what I say with a pinch of pepper.
Goose_Se7en
Banned
You're beef isn't with the game itself but the way the narrative is delivered correct? Regardless of whether you experienced it yourself or not I can see why you would disagree from a distance on the narrative devices that Remedy used in building and fleshing out their world.
It has to be said that this game was designed and conceived -I'm assuming here- during the time that MS was focused on TV SPORTS TV TV TV era of the Xbox One and this game, Quantum Break was maybe supposed to be vanguard of this movement.
Ultimately MS switched course, but it makes me wonder how other games could have been designed with this type of philosophy and the acceptance or outcry over these types of efforts by devs.
Gravy Boat
Member
I do know about the ratios. You're pretending g that there aren't extensive reviews that can tell me exactly how much gameplay to watching I should expect. I know exactly how they interact, and how the choices you make affect what happened in the episodes. I don't need to play the game to learn any of this. If I were criticising gameplay then You'd have a point but I don't need to play the game to criticise having 20 minute episodes at the end of each chapter instead of actually integrating those stories into the game.
Exactly. It could be the best story ever told but I can't see (and have yet to be told) how doing what they did is any better than telling the whole story through the game itself. If someone can explain why this is better than traditional video game story telling then please do because at the moment there's quite a few people challenging my opinion but no one has actually explained how what they've done is actually a benefit to me as a video game player.
Salty Rice
Member
I disagree with Joe a lot but this review is spot on.
Its just an average game with multiple problems. People giving this a 8 or 9 are crazy.
Its just an average game with multiple problems. People giving this a 8 or 9 are crazy.
The Jackdog
Member
eh, any other dev id agree, but not remedy. this feels like something they wanted to do. narrative and TV tropes have always been big in their games
Pretty much all of Joe's reviews are for people who have either already played the game or don't plan on playing it at all. For story based games, he almost always goes into spoiler territory.
I agree with everything he said in the review. (Edit: Although I do actually enjoy the live action show bits... No complaints there, my husband has enjoyed watching them too.)
However, I still give it an 8/10 as the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. The way they handled time travel in the story was done pretty well and how it applied to gameplay was great.
I love the concept/idea of time travel. If the story handled time travel poorly and/or it didn't have the excellent sound design it does have I would give it a 6 or 7.
Same
The Tv-show is cutscenes, and the comparison with American Dreams don't make a lot of sense.
Firstly. It is not as if american Dreams is interweaved into the game. It is a totally separete entity which acts as a prequel. It gives you some background on Ellie and you know what she is talking about in the final scene of the game. Ingame Ellie is a totally formed character with growth as a character ingame.
Liam Burke and Beth Cooper aren't. Without the show there motivations are very unclear. Do you need it to follow the plotpoints? No. Is it the kind of texture you can expect in a welltold story? Yeah, only the 'show' takes a bit more time for that (without making them compelling at all imo). Also, the show is greatly tied to the junction moments, which are ingame. Without the show they loose a lot of context and meaning. And then there is the fact that some characters don't get a proper intro at all in the game. You go save the doctor lady without knowing who she is if you skip the show. The Last of Us has none of that.
Secondly, and most importantly.: i can give American Dreams to someone who didn't play the game or knows anything about it, and it will be an easy to follow story. The comic is self-contained. The 'show' in QB isn't, without Jacks story it would be incrompehensible. All the characters in the show are actually reacting to the problems jack causes to monarch, but you barely see him in the show or know what he is doing. This makes the 'show, i, fact cutscenes. They might tell mostly backstory that is (albeit not completely) skipable to follow the game, but they are not self-contained in itself like a tv-show would be. It does not matter if they aren't spread out trough the gameplay (though they are, just condensed to 4 times 20 minutes), it doesn't matter if they are live action, it doesn't matter they tell the b-story of the badguys: they are not a tv-show, but just cutscenes disguised as one.
That Halo show that came with the mmc, that is a tv-show...
This is probably spot on for this thread..haha.
That's a shame. I'd put this game on par with not even trying Uncharted 2, Gears of War, Souls, or TLoU.
It's different, and a lot of people have found it to be really good to amazing. A few may not like it at all...seems Joe is in that small group.
UrbanDandy
Member
Just saw the review. I was expecting at least a 3/10. From his playthrough, he was just angry at the gameplay, glitches and didn't like the TV show tie in overall. The only things Joe liked were the graphics.
Tatsumi Oga
Banned
I haven't finished the game yet and i am not going to watch this until i do. He tends to show things from games i don't want to see or talk about spoilers i don't want to know.
For a lot of reviews of his i have always agreed with him, but from what i am hearing about this one, from a friend who saw the review, it sounds more like bitching for the sake of bitching. Bugs and glitches...i encountered zero so far. Complains about some puzzles apparently.....hell i wish there were more of them. He didn't like the show, again, i really do like it. I have none of these problems with the game he seems to have.
The game is a huge blast for me to play and i am sad knowing that i am nearing the end, i want more.
Really? He had not one positive thing to say about the awesome stutter segments in the game? The fantastic shooting mechanics that are absolutely satisfiying? The time powers? The lovely audio? Heh.
For a lot of reviews of his i have always agreed with him, but from what i am hearing about this one, from a friend who saw the review, it sounds more like bitching for the sake of bitching. Bugs and glitches...i encountered zero so far. Complains about some puzzles apparently.....hell i wish there were more of them. He didn't like the show, again, i really do like it. I have none of these problems with the game he seems to have.
The game is a huge blast for me to play and i am sad knowing that i am nearing the end, i want more.
Really? He had not one positive thing to say about the awesome stutter segments in the game? The fantastic shooting mechanics that are absolutely satisfiying? The time powers? The lovely audio? Heh.
The Jackdog
Member
thats a bummer, personally i think its the best thing ive played all year.
in a time when games are trying their hardest to sell you extra, keep you on the grind more, and spread their paper thin story out over too long, quantum break is so refreshing. tight, well paced story, different/interesting combat, and new ideas. maybe some dont work perfect, but the whole package together just really blew me away.
am i gonna put as much time into it as i did with destiny/division/diablo? nope.
is the shooting as tight as halo 5? nope.
is the show better or on par with something on HBO? nope.
but its one of the only games ive played this year where what it DOES have, top to bottom, its pretty stellar.
-COOLIO-
The Everyman
but these "gamey" things will never approve if we always look past them without question. even if improvement is just a matter of finding better ways to obfuscate invisible walls.
UrbanDandy
Member
Time segments - he was positive. Rest of it - he did not like.
Pretty much my thoughts
The Jackdog
Member
but its not.
its not like theres half the doors in the game you can rewind and half you cant, randomly.
its a contextualized puzzle in a "stutter" that happens in the game.
You aren't supposed to care about Liam Burke's motivations outside of the show. That's one of the elements where they provide insight for someone who would otherwise only be a
mini-boss
Kidnapping that doctor lady
doctor for the bad guy
I'd agree that the TV show doesn't work standalone, but that wasn't the point in what I was discussing. The point was whether the game works standalone, which it absolutely does. Just as Ellie's "I lost someone" in The Last of Us has less weight
when you are completely oblivious to who Riley is
what occurred that placed that character in that role
And no, they aren't cutscenes. As I've said in this thread multiple times, cutscenes are the narrative glue that connect gameplay moments in a game. The episodes exist seperately and do not connect gameplay moments.
Watched the video and hardly surprised to read that there's an uproar from some here considering its Joe and a hyped up exclusive.
Having not played QB but having a passing interest, the more footage I saw with time, the less enthusiastic I was on it and now Joe brings across criticisms of the game quite well.
Nice to see a lot of folks enjoyed it though, I had fun with TO:1886 last year which is universally panned (by Joe too) and I wasn't ever bothered by it.
Having not played QB but having a passing interest, the more footage I saw with time, the less enthusiastic I was on it and now Joe brings across criticisms of the game quite well.
Nice to see a lot of folks enjoyed it though, I had fun with TO:1886 last year which is universally panned (by Joe too) and I wasn't ever bothered by it.
tattooed_dwarf
Member
It reminds me of people complaining of cover shooter mechanics of Uncharted when you could actually move a lot. Or people complaining of Titanfall being "CoD with mechs", without actually embracing Wall running and hopping around. People should really use gameplay mechanics provided to them.It doesn't surprise me that people don't put much effort in. (not directed at you) This game has some of the most amazing combat mechanics I've seen in a long time. You can do wonders with them. You can stack bullets, change the timing of when attacks hit, who they hit, etc.
Plus...it looks amazing in typical Remedy fashion.
Tatsumi Oga
Banned
Yeah, ridiculous. The shooting is what makes the gameplay so damn fun. I just heard from my friend that he says Alan Wake and Max Payne are much better with it. I suggest Joe fires up Max Payne then, because the shooting in QB is MUCH better, lol.
Gravy Boat
Member
A cutscene isn't defined as strictly as you're making out. Flashbacks for example don't always connect gameplay moments. In any other game people would call any video (in game or FMV) as a cutscene. For the purposes of this discussion they're the same thing. You watch them to learn more about the characters and world the game is trying to build.
holygeesus
Banned
Sorry I wasn't clear about the area I was referring to. The second live-action show where there is the
party
interrogate Jack
make the conference speech
warping guards and Jack escaping
Going to blow some minds here, but QB has both In-Game cut-scenes, in-engine cut-scenes (usually between levels), and the Live Action Show.
I love Max Payne, but the oomph of QB is ridiculous. Obviously Joe wasn't playing this with 5.1+ cranked in his video either.
The sound is like nothing I've ever experienced in a game....it's insane.
Huh, that's pretty cool. In my game
he dies in the TV show and I never met him in the game as a boss fight.
Gravy Boat
Member
I don't believe I ever said it didn't, just that they're fundamentally the same thing.
Messofanego
Banned
Disappointed with this review, especially on the gameplay front.
Angry Joe's criticisms of the gameplay in Quantum Break, I found to be in general pretty weak and surprisingly lacking examples or proof when he's usually good at this (hence why his video reviews are half-hour lengths). I'm agreed with the lack of hip firing and inconsistent platforming in terms of what you can climb but the stuff with the doors (dude spends 3min on invisible walls lol) is just some of the weakest criticism ever and can be applied to every videogame in existence as no videogame is perfect on invisible walls. Apparently invisible walls now equals "stinks of lazy level design" and the game "not sticking to its own rules". I didn't find myself wrestling with the camera. I didn't find the gunplay stiff, and he doesn't even give an example of these couple of criticisms. This is his argument he uses to support the "gunplay is not very good" criticism: "it's a cover-based shooter without a cover system!!!" (who ever said it was a cover based shooter? The game never does nor did any of the creators in interviews). His example of "dumb AI" is literally focusing on 1 grunt enemy with the weakest pistol from far away who doesn't want to come close while he's behind a rock. If the default AI is not good, how come he couldn't find at least more than 3 examples than just this one? Most of the time, the enemy will flush you out of cover and they're pretty darn good in general. "But in the videogame, It'll take 15 clips (huh?) to kill the dudes [referring to Striker enemy]", but it takes less than a clip from the front
, and fewer shots if you flank them from the back to hit the backpack, or just one shotgun shell from the front.
But from all the footage of him playing the game, he plays it conservatively like a cover shooter from afar rather than making use of the mobility system. Honestly believe Angry Joe played it like a cover shooter cause he just got done with The Division and was still in that mode of playing a thirdperson shooter.
I would disagree about "the lack of emotional impact" and counter with all the focus on Beth, especially in Act 4. I don't want to spoil it but the way how the plot goes backwards and develops her quest, then how it figures into the ending, left an impact on me as much as Alan Wake. Now, I would have loved if there was more than just one character who I cared that much about, but the Beth stuff is some of the most involving work in a Remedy game.
I did like the Wee Man and clone bits in this review
Angry Joe's criticisms of the gameplay in Quantum Break, I found to be in general pretty weak and surprisingly lacking examples or proof when he's usually good at this (hence why his video reviews are half-hour lengths). I'm agreed with the lack of hip firing and inconsistent platforming in terms of what you can climb but the stuff with the doors (dude spends 3min on invisible walls lol) is just some of the weakest criticism ever and can be applied to every videogame in existence as no videogame is perfect on invisible walls. Apparently invisible walls now equals "stinks of lazy level design" and the game "not sticking to its own rules". I didn't find myself wrestling with the camera. I didn't find the gunplay stiff, and he doesn't even give an example of these couple of criticisms. This is his argument he uses to support the "gunplay is not very good" criticism: "it's a cover-based shooter without a cover system!!!" (who ever said it was a cover based shooter? The game never does nor did any of the creators in interviews). His example of "dumb AI" is literally focusing on 1 grunt enemy with the weakest pistol from far away who doesn't want to come close while he's behind a rock. If the default AI is not good, how come he couldn't find at least more than 3 examples than just this one? Most of the time, the enemy will flush you out of cover and they're pretty darn good in general. "But in the videogame, It'll take 15 clips (huh?) to kill the dudes [referring to Striker enemy]", but it takes less than a clip from the front
But from all the footage of him playing the game, he plays it conservatively like a cover shooter from afar rather than making use of the mobility system. Honestly believe Angry Joe played it like a cover shooter cause he just got done with The Division and was still in that mode of playing a thirdperson shooter.
I would disagree about "the lack of emotional impact" and counter with all the focus on Beth, especially in Act 4. I don't want to spoil it but the way how the plot goes backwards and develops her quest, then how it figures into the ending, left an impact on me as much as Alan Wake. Now, I would have loved if there was more than just one character who I cared that much about, but the Beth stuff is some of the most involving work in a Remedy game.
I did like the Wee Man and clone bits in this review
So Halo Nightfall is a cutscene for Halo 5?
I'm only being slightly facetious, but I think it's equally facetious to dismiss the Quantum Break episodes as cutscenes. As I've said, they exist to tell a separate story using different characters, but is situated in the same universe. That isn't the function of most video game cutscenes.
It's just playing on the running joke in the review that doors are Jack Joyce's biggest enemy. Holy shit, why are people so stuck on this? Are you that emotionally invested into this that you can't tell an obvious joke is just that?
You've been doing a lot of hand wringing and goalpost moving to not call these cutscenes. They're pretty much cutscenes IMO, and most people seem to be calling them that as well. Insisting they're not cutscenes is what Remedy's PR has been doing, but it just comes off as disingenuous and a way to put a "cool" spin on what they're doing.
Still haven't had a chance to see it completely. Can someone tell me if Joe played the game how it is meant to be played or did he screw up how he played by just thinking it is a cover shooter?
I'd say you'd still miss on a couple of things and you'd loose out on the thing in the episode that affect or show up in the gameplay.
I'd say you'd still miss on a couple of things and you'd loose out on the thing in the episode that affect or show up in the gameplay.
You know what crazy is ? Calling people crazy who give this game an 8 or 9.
The average review score is sitting at almost 8/10 but when people give an 8 they're crazy.
Are you sure it does?
Here are the two possibilities
If you decide to make the conference speech, the next bit of gameplay (after the episode) is this:
If you decide to interrogate Jack, the next bit of gameplay (after the episode) is this: