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[The Abominable Snowman]

There have been all manner of responses to this. Some I understand. It's a bummer to feel like you bought into an ecosystem only to see it supplanted by a superior product before you perceive you've gotten an acceptable amount of value out of it. This is the most dangerous backlash that console makers would face trying to move to an iterative model. Eventually you iterate to the point where you're dependent on each marginal improvement moving the needle predictably to meet sales targets, and I think Smartphone manufacturers are starting to show that the ride is bumpier than one would hope.

This can be applied to just about every piece of tech released after 2010.

Smartphone sales for the main manufacturers are still up, with the only thing changing being the rate of growth with each iteration.

And even then, the real comparison would be other smart STBs, like ChromeCast, Apple TV, Fire TV, etc.

 

[ekim]

That CPU is still laughably weak.

oh sorry. I did read GPU and not CPU. You are right.

 

[Newtype-001]

Actually expect the opposite. The major boost in performance here is the GPU and not the CPU. Visual differences will be a much larger factor than raw performance. Framerates in many games are very CPU dependant

I was hoping this was the case, id rather get more bells and whistles if i feel lile upgrading.

 

[anothertech]

This will be good for Sony come fall.

But for developers, I can't help but feeling like this will be a 32x situation all over again. Devs not getting extra benefits from sony won't bother making NEO mode meaningful and crossplatform titles become more complicated to the point of abandonment.

We'll see I guess. Games are releasing more broken than ever these days, another SKU to test for probably won't change things that much, even if it is a headache for devs.

Seriously makes me wonder what happens when someone like Activision of EA says "we don't want to support this NEO mode, we don't have time, so we're not gonna, and if you really don't like it, we just won't come back next time around."

i don't see the issue.

Devs make games for PC regularly, while having to account for thousands of possible configurations and settings.

Here... There will be 2. Normal and Ultra. What's so complicated?

I feel like devs will rejoice their games can breathe finally with the extra power Neo will bring, with critics and consumers constantly berating them with the 1080/60 stick this Gen so relentlessly.

Games with the fidelity and iq of The Order and AC Unity will be able to run at 60fps. This is a huge deal for devs.

 

[Tistru]

No dude. It is the other way around. CPUs follow the X86-64 ISA.

GPUs change their ISA from generation to generation. This was alleviated by drivers, but thin drivers like those on consoles don't hide these architectural differences.

True, except that GCN is still the same underlying architecture used on the GPU side for Polaris. It isn't using a brand new architecture so it's building upon features established in previous GCN versions.

 

[Inuhanyou]

I think his point is that the NX will be a much larger jump from Wii U.

Its Nintendo though....they have the ability, but do they have the will, and not at a mass market price point a new brand new unit affords...

 

[...Scatter...]

Actually expect the opposite. The major boost in performance here is the GPU and not the CPU. Visual differences will be a much larger factor than raw performance. Framerates in many games are very CPU dependant

In comes Cerny with the GPGPU talk.

 

[Ozzykamikaze]

1080p --> 4k
2 player co-op --> 4 player co-op
Unlocked 30/60fps --> locked 30/60fps

And they're charging the same price (more in Canada) for these marginal, negligible "upgrades" as the original PS4. Of course people are upset we're not getting a proper console upgrade.

I dunno where you got those numbers from. That seems like pure speculation at this point.

People are mad that the better console is the same price? or they were expecting a whole new console (aka PS5)? You lost me on this.

 

[ethomaz]

That CPU is still laughably weak.

AMD CPUs are weak...

Actually they don't have tech to make strong CPUs.

 

[ramshot]

Sony needs to work with retailers to provide a trade program which allows you to trade in your old PS4 and upgrade for a decent cost, or then run such a program themselves. The way I see it, this is the only way they will not have a huge part of their userbase upset.

If they don't do this, the market is going to be absolutely flooded with used PS4s, leading to it losing value, meaning that upgrading to the new version will cost a good bunch of money. I bought the PS4 at launch, but many, many people have gotten it only recently, and telling these people they need to pony up 400USD+ again to have the best experience would not be pretty.

They could then sell the old models for dirt cheap to expand their user base.

 

[Daft Punk]

I mean, If I have to get a shiny new console with a shitty cpu, I'd rather the one with the unique library

 

[Ominym]

I don't know what's worse about this thread. The people freaking out posts or the holier-than-thou "I can't believe you people are freaking out" posts.

Nonetheless, going to be an interesting year either way. Especially at E3, I can't wait to see how this is messaged and marketed. Glad to see Giant Bomb getting its spotlight as a news outlet once and awhile too.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

I think you mean 2013* You know since the ps3/x360 didn't have significant upgrades. Its amazing how many people act like people should of seen this coming 3 years into a consoles life span.

Nobody is saying you should have seen this coming, but it's looking more and more like a fairly small upgrade, so buy the system or keep your old one, but this attitude like you are owed something, or that Sony can't do something different because they have never done it before, I just don't see how that is reasonable at all.

 

[Hatty]

Sold my PS4 for $320 thanks to P.T. so I'm ready for whatever the console makers decide to do. This is pretty exciting

 

[Jacqli]

I think you mean 2013* You know since the ps3/x360 didn't have significant upgrades. Its amazing how many people act like people should of seen this coming 3 years into a consoles life span.

Yep, and it is our fault for not seeing it coming.

I am so disappointed. I wanted to buy a whim and chose PS4 because of the rumours about an upgraded xbox one (how silly I was) and now I cannot stop regretting the purchase.

Sold my PS4 for $320 thanks to P.T. so I'm ready for whatever the console makers decide to do. This is pretty exciting

But you must keep your account linked to that console, right?

 

[GhostTrick]

AMD CPUs are weak...

This one is weak even by AMD standards. Which is why I don't understand the point of such a bigger GPU which might be limited in many scenarios by the CPU.

 

[Lord_Santa]

That's not even such a huge bump in specs, I don't see what the fuss is. Neo mode will probably just allow for minor visual improvements and a frame rate boost.

I think the main reason for doing this is to become sort of a pioneer in 4k media, having an inexpensive 4k blu-ray player/streaming device could be a huge boon for Sony in the future; the same way the PS3 push forward Blu-Ray as an industry standard. Not to mention the whole VR aspect of things, with rumours that the PS VR processing box will be integrated into the console; it could mean cheaper VR and a more attractive package.

 

[Obliterator]

In comes Cerny with the GPGPU talk.

I mean that's all well and good but at the end of the day that CPU will only take you so far with framerates.

All that GPU tech is a hell of a lot easier to use for things like effects and AA then trying to offload CPU tasks to the GPU to improve framerates.

 

[icespide]

i don't see the issue.

Devs make games for PC regularly, while having to account for thousands of possible configurations and settings.

Here... There will be 2. Normal and Ultra. What's so complicated?

I feel like devs will rejoice their games can breathe finally with the extra power Neo will bring, with critics and consumers constantly berating them with the 1080/60 stick this Gen so relentlessly.

Games with the fidelity and iq of The Order and AC Unity will be able to run at 60fps. This is a huge deal for devs.

you're gonna be disappointed

 

[killatopak]

Time to save some cash.

 

[Inuhanyou]

I'll get it. It sucks but I'll get it. Just like I'll get an upgraded Xbox. Devs are going to have their hands full getting the most out of NX, Next Box, and PS4.5 while trying to continue to optimize for PS4 and XBO.

Who says they will bother getting the most out of those platforms as opposed to sticking with PS4 and XB1 for the base work and porting up?

 

[Schnozberry]

This can be applied to just about every piece of tech released after 2010.

Smartphone sales for the main manufacturers are still up, with the only thing changing being the rate of growth with each iteration.

Apple's latest financials speak otherwise, as do HTC and LG. Samsung seems to be bucking the trend. Continually revolving your user base forward is difficult, even in markets with heavily subsidized hardware. It's a new frontier for games. I'm interested to see how it works.

 

[TheSadRanger]

For those arguing about other electronic devices having yearly upgrades, phones/tablets, etc. Than just give me a fucking a contract and let me roll my PS+ subscription into it and get 4-5 AAA retail games per year as digital downloads which are only playable under an active contract depending on the contract you are currently under. I.E (For $60 a month for three years you get X amount of games)

If we're going to do this shit, than let's go all the way.

 

[ethomaz]

This one is weak even by AMD standards. Which is why I don't understand the point of such a bigger GPU which might be limited in many scenarios by the CPU.

This is a good question...

But can you list any game developed to PS4 showing the CPU is holding it?

They will optimize to what the console has and you won't see difference.

For exemple the latest game I played didn't had any perceptible drop in framerate... R&C.

 

[Mediking]

Its Nintendo though....they have the ability, but do they have the will, and not at a mass market price point a new brand new unit affords...

I already have a PS4. I'm not upgrading until the PS5. I rather buy a NX since... I...you know... actually love Nintendo IP.

 

[...Scatter...]

I mean that's all well and good but at the end of the day that CPU will only take you so far with framerates.

All that GPU tech is a hell of a lot easier to use for things like effects and AA then trying to offload CPU tasks to the GPU to improve framerates.

PC GAF will have to educate me on this one, but while on the PC side they have much stronger CPUs with per core performance, aren't PC games bad at maximizing multi-core processing which is why these weak ass Jaguars can keep up because there's 8 of them bitches and they're getting fully utilized?

 

[Sarobi]

Sony preparing for "ItPrintsMoney.gif" part 2

 

[Amon37]

The specs don't wow me. I have a ps4 now and will need some visual convincing and dev support announced before I trade up.

 

[AmyS]

True, except that GCN is still the same underlying architecture used on the GPU side for Polaris. It isn't using a brand new architecture so it's building upon features established in previous GCN versions.

And besides, anything custom to PS4's GPU would still be present on PS4 NEO's GPU.

AMD semi custom group is only adding on to that in terms of CUs.

18 CUs / 1152 shader processors / ALUs

36 CUs would mean 2304 shader processors / ALUs

 

[UnrealEck]

Devs make games for PC regularly, while having to account for thousands of possible configurations and settings.

Lovely. It wouldn't be a new console hardware thread and how it stacks up against PC without gross exaggerations and misconceptions being thrown around.

 

[EricTheCleric]

Man. I wasn't really worried about this but now I am. Since I bought my PS4 at launch, I hope there isn't much of a difference in the games between the two. If there is, this is really gonna make me regret getting a PS4.

So you will regret owning a PS4 and playing games on it these last three years just because of this?

Grow up.

 

[Sjefen]

so when I buy a "slim" version this gen, I will get more horsepower under the hood. Call me crazy, but how is this a bad thing? No need to answer, because I have read threw the tread and cant find what I find is a good argument against.

 

[Inuhanyou]

This one is weak even by AMD standards. Which is why I don't understand the point of such a bigger GPU which might be limited in many scenarios by the CPU.

Cause they could do it, presumably.

 

[anothertech]

you're gonna be disappointed

A lot of people are going to be surprised.

 

[TLZ]

Honestly just expect sony to push 60fps on PS4K, since they have been really pushing it in remasters.

That's not even such a huge bump in specs, I don't see what the fuss is. Neo mode will probably just allow for minor visual improvements and a frame rate boost.

Enough for me if every game will come with 60fps.

you're gonna be disappointed

Why?

 

[tuxfool]

True, except that GCN is still the same underlying architecture used on the GPU side for Polaris. It isn't using a brand new architecture so it's building upon features established in previous GCN versions.

It very much is GCN, but it should be quite a significant iteration. Either way, given that they're still using Jaguar, a design that does not have any reason to exist at 14/16 nm except for consoles, suggests that they're targeting compatibility above all even beyond ISA considerations.

 

[Hexa]

Lovely. It wouldn't be a new console hardware thread and how it stacks up against PC without gross exaggerations and misconceptions being thrown around.

Uh... maybe I missed something but how is that wrong?

Also everyone expecting 60fps standard is going to be disappointed. The boost is far more concentrated on resolution and bells and whistles in terms of graphics as compared to frame rate.

 

[blankempathy]

Nobody is saying you should have seen this coming, but it's looking more and more like a fairly small upgrade, so buy the system or keep your old one, but this attitude like you are owed something, or that Sony can't do something different because they have never done it before, I just don't see how that is reasonable at all.

Except my attitude isn't that sony owes me something. In fact I even said I shared some of the blame for making assumptions. However to act like I should of seen this coming is disingenuous as well. And yes people are saying that. Read some of the posts who replied to me. And I even said I would sell my system and wait and see where this all goes and the first response I got was

So you'll wait 5-6 years and forego great video games simply because you can't accept the fact that the console you have isn't the best model available? Really? How are you even getting through life with that attitude?

 

[...Scatter...]

Will it get Destiny to run at 60fps? Come on Bungie. Make this happen. So hard going back to Destiny after Halo 5.

 

[GhostTrick]

This is a good question...

But can you list any game developed to PS4 showing the CPU is holding it?

They will optimize to what the console has and you won't see difference.

For exemple the latest game I played didn't had any perceptible drop in framerate... R&C.

I'd say any open world title.

 

[Inuhanyou]

The specs don't wow me. I have a ps4 now and will need some visual convincing and dev support announced before I trade up.

I think of it like this...were you one who was *WOWED* at the PS4's GPU compared to the XB1's at launch? That was just a 50% difference on paper, maybe even a little less, and we saw clear framerate and resolution improvements. Now this is a 300% boost by comparison.

I'm not using it in a fanboy way against XB1, just to put it in relative perspective of the jump over the OG PS4

 

[AzaK]

Slippery rope......not like the competition is healthy. NX will have to rock it out the park.

Unlikely based on Emily Roger's tweets. Will be interesting to see what happens though. If this thing comes out in October and it's 2x the NX (Assuming NX is PS4) then I think NX will be risking being Wii U'd. Hopefully they bring out the SCD thing.

Either way, my wife has been asking to get a second PS4 so we can both game at the same time so maybe this will be it.

 

[Donthizz#]

so we can expect two PS4 bundles for the next COD game right? regular version and the ungraded version.

 

[Obliterator]

PC GAF will have to educate me on this one, but while on the PC side they have much stronger CPUs with per core performance, aren't PC games bad at maximizing multi-core processing which is why these weak ass Jaguars can keep up because there's 8 of them bitches and they're getting fully utilized?

Yeah you are pretty spot on I'm just saying the only change to the CPU is an upclock which is gonna give about a 30% performance increase. This isn't something to just write off but it's also not a game changer for 60fps. Basically expect games like FFXV that vary on framerates to be much closers to a rock sold 30fps without dips with that instead of jumping to 60fps.

All that extra GPU horsepower however can be used for things like effects, resolution, and AA without effecting framerates much at all as it's essentially "free real estate" the standard PS4 GPU doesn't have.

In other words with this hardware set up by and large it will be easier for developers to make visual improvements to titles than substantial framerates increases over the PS4 version

 

[Hatty]

But you must keep your account linked to that console, right?

Not entirely
I had P.T. on my throwaway European account so my main account is safe

 

[StrongBlackVine]

Will it get Destiny to run at 60fps? Come on Bungie. Make this happen. So hard going back to Destiny after Halo 5.

No. The sequel will likely go for a more open world approach so no 60fps. Maybe for competitive, but I still doubt it.

 

[Consumer]

Would this go against the "no additonal features" policy or would just be considered an upgrade to a feature on PSpoor?

From the article:

That said, so long as both systems have the same feature, the NEO can run an improved version. A local co-op game that features four players on the base PS4 could offer an eight player co-op mode on the NEO, for instance. But again, don't expect those differences to transfer to online modes.

I'm speaking about offline co-op of course. Obviously ps4k won't have anything like that on online modes. So yes it's just an upgrade to PSpoor.

I dunno where you got those numbers from. That seems like pure speculation at this point.

People are mad that the better console is the same price? or they were expecting a whole new console (aka PS5)? You lost me on this.

What? The numbers will obviously vary per game; my post merely gave an example. Some games will go from 2 --> 4 players and some 4 --> 8. Some will upgrade to locked 30fps some will be upgraded to unlocked 60fps, etc.

The "better console" is not the same price as the ps4, it's $100 USD more expensive. (Or will be at launch). We're pissed because of this AND because we don't want consoles to go the way of PC in that we get marginal upgrades every couple months/years.

 

[Hexa]

This is a good question...

But can you list any game developed to PS4 showing the CPU is holding it?

They will optimize to what the console has and you won't see difference.

For exemple the latest game I played didn't had any perceptible drop in framerate... R&C.

Assassins Creed Unity:

“Technically we’re CPU-bound. The GPUs are really powerful, obviously the graphics look pretty good, but it’s the CPU [that] has to process the AI, the number of NPCs we have on screen, all these systems running in parallel. We were quickly bottlenecked by that and it was a bit frustrating, because we thought that this was going to be a ten-fold improvement over everything AI-wise, and we realised it was going to be pretty hard. It’s not the number of polygons that affect the frame-rate. We could be running at 100fps if it was just graphics, but because of AI, we’re still limited to 30 frames per second.”

http://www.inquisitr.com/1612173/xb...ty-cpu-bound-and-slower-on-the-playstation-4/

But in general the CPU being relatively weak with recommendations of shifting over to GPGPU to really get power out of the system was something I think even Sony said back when the PS4 came out. Unfortunately that hasn't materialized enough to compensate for the weak CPU though.

 

[TheSpecialOne]

Enough for me if every game will come with 60fps.



Why?

That won't happen. I'd taper my expectations if I were you.

 

[icespide]

Enough for me if every game will come with 60fps.



Why?

framerate is cpu intensive and the big bump here is in the GPU. you're gonna get more solid 30fps with slightly better looking everything else potentially at 4k