This seems different though since Sony is supposedly mandating two versions for every PS4 game.
And judging from the all the DSi and n3DS games that take advantage of the extra power, sounds like they figured it out to avoid the hassle.
Colin Moriarty of Kinda Funny: source says "most developers are not happy with PS4.5"
- Thread starter Chobel
- Start date
This seems different though since Sony is supposedly mandating two versions for every PS4 game.
And judging from the all the DSi and n3DS games that take advantage of the extra power, sounds like they figured it out to avoid the hassle.
Zomba13
Member
From what we know games releasing in the "September" window will need to have a Neo Mode patch made and games launching from October onwards must have a Neo Mode. Neo Mode must provide performance equal to or better than Normal Mode (where I assume the "equal to" is for things running already at 1080p60fps where you can't get better).
Youve talked to all 40 million? I never got a call from u.... nobody ever calls me.... sigh
Darryl M R
Member
This is also what I thought. I hope someone can weigh in on this. I don't understand the fallout.
The rumor is that Sony will require devs to make a "Neo" mode of any future PS4 games that runs "better". What that entails remains to be seen.
Pretty much. Developers gain almost nothing from developing for the Neo if the "base" PS4 co-exists. It's just extra work. This is why the requirement from Sony's end makes sense.
I wish I was BFF with "most" devs and we'd just trade PMs all day and they'd tell me about their feelings regarding unannounced HW and games. We'd also setup chill sessions at local parks where we'd get high as hell and talk about video game ideas and concepts.
IF you are a video game dev and that sounds good to you, feel free to PM. Must be local, DDF & 420 friendly.
IF you are a video game dev and that sounds good to you, feel free to PM. Must be local, DDF & 420 friendly.
GamingOblivion
Banned
Um, yes. What kind of fucking company does this if not thinking they can do whatever they want and shit on developers and consumers alike? If this doesn't benefit either of us, then why does it exist?
Maybe not "most," but "many" would be a possibility, given that the PS4.5 was a hot topic of discussion among developers during GDC a few weeks ago.
But no western developers makes games for New 3ds. This is entirely new for them!
Bitch Pudding
Member
They most likely already realized that PS4 doesn't have its predecessors legs when it comes to long-term sales. The classic PL model is outdated (just look at any other entertainment hardware) Unless they come up with a significant new gimmick (like Kinect or Move) consoles will peak within the first 2-3 years.
The fact that Sony doesn't rely on PSVR (alone) to generate further PS4 sales momentum actually says a lot.
Audioboxer
Member
Uh, the "get used to it" attitude is what resulted in PS3 and also how Nintendo eventually started their downfall (when other options opened up and developers were sick of Nintendo's attitude of you'll deal with it cause what else are you going to do).
Consoles can't survive without developer support. It's not good to just tell them to f* off. In fact Sony had learned that lesson and that's one reason PS4 was getting such good support (where as MS was doing the deal with it attitude towards developers).
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Yeah i can sympathize. I like the idea of a PS4.5 but this isnt going to be too much fun for developers who already have to maintain three different versions of their games.
Psychoward
Banned
You're missing the part where I said there are two options and either of them are bad. Even if they don't have any exclusives then devs are forced to put in more time for small returns, ps4 og owners are left feeling cheated and the ps neo owners and devs don't get to play/make games that warrant a gen upgrade. It's shit whichever way it ends up working out.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Yeah, shit is coming so fast, that when I went to my phone on lunch I glossed over and had a different train of thought on the subject, lol.
demigod
Member
Thanks for the insight. Did not know it required that much work on PC. I'm sure its easier once the presets are in. People are making a big deal out of this. PC devs and iOS devs should feel right at home.
Devs have to ensure that a game runs well at the target specification on a console, which requires significant optimization. Ignoring that though, there's a built audience of 100m PC gamers which means more copies sold. PSNeo has no audience to sell to other than people trading in their PS4s for the Neo, which doesn't exactly mean much for software sales.
qa_engineer
Member
Mesoian, please tell us what the year 2019 is like. You're clearly from the future.
vpance
Gold Member
That is a publisher and project management issue, not a Sony/MS/Nintendo one.
family_guy
Member
So do people who develop PC games think this is that big a deal?
RedAssedApe
Banned
That or for whatever reason they are "scared" of being the weaker console compared to the NX and/or whatever Xbox might have in hinted at. A bit odd considering past history of stronger consoles not being the best selling ones.
NullPointer
Member
Or even less optimized PS4 games at release as developer focus gets split across base and NEO versions, x2 for each console platform that goes this route.
I could be jazzed about this kind of hardware power bump mid-cycle if games released in better states. But for many of the heavy hitters you're better off waiting for a patch or two before jumping in, if the game even gets patched.
Garrett Hawke
Member
Hawk269
Member
Lmfao. How he came to that is beyond belief. I also did not get a call from him. Lol
Risk Breaker
Member
I can't really discuss much, but people aren't really running around going crazy thinking of it.
I think cost for indies will be roughly the same. PS4 is definitely more accessible for indies than PS3 was despite being a lot more powerful. Obviously if you want to make it look fancier on a PS4k you have to put some work in it, but the amount of work depends on what you want to do and they can always simply allow 4k/60FPS + AA, turn on some effects and call it a day.
WhiskerFrisker
Member
How is VR a bad decision?
I'm Spartacus
Member
But if publishers and developers didn't ask for this, why the hell is PSNeo even a thing?
It's the only thing that makes sense for its existance.
It's the only thing that makes sense for its existance.
EatinOlives
Member
Makes sense.
Devs won't get additional sales from Neo-optimized games, as no Neo owner is gonna go "I wasn't interested in the game until a Neo-optimized profile was announced! Day 1!" Similarly, if a game DOESN'T have one, Neo owners wouldn't go "this is a deal breaker!"
So for devs it's extra work for really no pay-off.
It has to run on a Neo. I doubt Sony would make them optimize for it, though.
Devs won't get additional sales from Neo-optimized games, as no Neo owner is gonna go "I wasn't interested in the game until a Neo-optimized profile was announced! Day 1!" Similarly, if a game DOESN'T have one, Neo owners wouldn't go "this is a deal breaker!"
So for devs it's extra work for really no pay-off.
It has to run on a Neo. I doubt Sony would make them optimize for it, though.
It's early yet, and maybe things will be different come October, but if Sony is the only one making actual gaming experiences for VR, I don't see such a heavy bet paying off for them. Even with the occulus and the Vive being on store shelves (or as close as possible to them with these delays) we still don't have any real gaming related software for any VR system that's worth talking about beyond, "yes, that's a game that would probably be better played outside of VR".
We're still in such an experimental stage and Sony is better HARD that everyone and their parents is going to want a headset, and their own VR contributions are games that are probably just as good without VR.
Plus I don't think people are considering the hidden costs for PSVR yet. 95% of people are going to have to buy that 600 dollar bundle because they didn't want to buy into move controllers or cameras when the PS3 and PS4 were new.
Yatta yatta yatta, RISK. But that's risk sony's taking head on, which is fine.
The only real risk on the NEO end of things seems to be on the developer's end.
Man are you gonna wish you were back in 2016. I would give anything to be in those weeks just before e3 before I knew everything that was going to happen. It was so exciting, so free of peril.
/s
Interfectum
Member
Did you leave a voicemail or return number? I don't think you counted me towards your tally.
Some people on Gaf think they are experts. It's comical.
Psychoward
Banned
It is a Sony issue since pissing off devs lead to less exclusives, worse ports and other general fuckery. It's kinda important to have developers happy with your system so they, ya know, develop.
And we know how bad is Hyrule Warriors on OG 3DS. It's like the game was designed for the New 3DS but runs worse on the original!
Audioboxer
Member
Because the PS4 isn't powerful enough to run VR like a PC can... oh wait, better not use that argument just now xD
OrbitalBeard
Member
It's not a generational upgrade and it's not going to be marketed as such.
I think most current PS4 owners aren't going to feel cheated. They'll continue to purchase FIFA, Call of Duty, and Madden on their vanilla consoles and be just fine.
None of what you said here is going to happen.
Darryl M R
Member
Fair comparison that I hope someone can address.
CosmicQueso
Member
Actual, real, human developers posting their thoughts here... being completely ignored.
Jesus Christ the hyperbole in these threads lol
LostMyNarbles
Member
Is it really that much work? I am seriously asking because I know nothing about game development. I just figure that if PC games can have a variety of settings to mess with this would just be a matter of a developing setting up a preset selection depending on the system performance.
LordBaztion
Member
Gamer focused
Developer inspired
I think developers will eventually get along with it, at the end it benefits to them when game consoles have no longer generations.
Developer inspired
I think developers will eventually get along with it, at the end it benefits to them when game consoles have no longer generations.
Mass_Pincup
Banned
That's not really the same thing.
Really seems like a useless statement - most developers = most developers his source knows? Programmers? Designers? Producers?
The amount of work required to get something running on a faster version of the same platform is greatly exaggerated. It's vertical scaling, not porting to a different kind of architecture. From the sound of it, there isn't even a requirement to render natively at 4k, so render as high as performance allows and upscale from there.
The amount of work required to get something running on a faster version of the same platform is greatly exaggerated. It's vertical scaling, not porting to a different kind of architecture. From the sound of it, there isn't even a requirement to render natively at 4k, so render as high as performance allows and upscale from there.
Psychoward
Banned
That subtle condescension though.
And okay,if it isn't marketed as a generational upgrade but it's priced like one.... ????
I didnt either.....😣