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[Wishmaster92]

Sony <3 developers so much, they've graciously given them not one, but two targets to hit, at the same time! Lazy developers should step up and respond to such graciousness.

Again how does it differ from pc multiplats? Sony should've went the cheap arrogant company way and just announce a ps4 slim with a bigger hdd for $399. Fuck double gpu power and the other improvements.

 

[Bl4ckSunsh1n3]

Most devs will complain about any amount of extra work. Yawn.

You do realize that there is a hell of a lot more than development that goes into making software, right? There's an entire process and adding a second set of hardware adds requirements at every single level along the way. It's not just, "oh, it's extra work, yawn." That's insulting to people who actually know what is going on.

 

[Kaako]

PC developers must be in constant hell. So many variations, oh the horror.

PC game development is hell. Fuck optimizing for all them potential system configurations! Just gimmi one baseline and lemme get this shit over with. Lol

 

[vpance]

It is a Sony issue since pissing off devs lead to less exclusives, worse ports and other general fuckery. It's kinda important to have developers happy with your system so they, ya know, develop.

Sorry that sounds ridiculous. Devs do what they're told by their managers. If PM budget the extra time for a Neo mode this is a non issue. If not then they are the dicks.

 

[Garrett Hawke]

Most devs will complain about any amount of extra work. Yawn.

I didn't know Alex St. John had a GAF account now.

 

[Harmen]

A large chunk of the customers are not either, me included.

 

[Balb]

Devs complaining? What about people who complain about bad ports on Consoles and Pc? Did devs care about us? No.

That's a publisher issue, not a developer issue.

 

[Audioboxer]

I mean, that's a different conversation but...after trying subnautica in VR, I have SERIOUS doubts about PSVR in general.

But to be fair, it's the only headset I haven't gotten to play with.

They've created a mightily fine headset ~ Specs and comfort. However the console is going to give the weakest VR experience outside of phone VR and some of the crappy PC headsets. The price of Vive and Occulus will only come down between now and the PS5, not to mention PC components dropping in price. PC will become the VR go to.

They have to do something to keep PSVR steam up till PS5. Opening it up to the PC market is one option, and has a slim chance of happening. However they want PS4s in living rooms and people using PSN, hence how I think they're going to give this a go with the upside of helping VR and 4K media and see how it plays out.

 

[pastrami]

A large chunk of the customers are not either, me included.

I'd like to see the data on this.

 

[Interfectum]

Any time someone in here comes out against this upgrade they're essentially told to stop being poor, or that their PS4 isn't going to magically become a brick, as if there isn't a ton of evidence suggesting that games developed with multiple target specs in kind often suffer on the weaker hardware. And a few devs have chimed in and given their thoughts on it and are also talked over.

Interesting how you ignore the actual devs that have chimed in on NeoGAF though, huh?

You just want to run with a tweet that says "most developers aren't happy" and whine if anyone takes it to task. Who is the source and how does this source know how "most developers" feel?

 

[Mokujin]

That's to be expected, it's going to be very interesting to see how each developer approaches the dual spec releases.

 

[CosmicQueso]

Oh this is going to be a great two months or so.

This is the most insane time. When was the last time it was this nuts?

I'd like to see the data on this.

Source: Same as Colin's tweet. The ether.

 

[Ray Down]

Here -




.

Thanks, now with these posts and Matt plus gopher, I do wonder how many dev kits there are and who has what.

I optimistic judging by Matt posts.

 

[DeepEnigma]

A large chunk of the customers are not either, me included.

Lol

 

[Yautja_Warrior]

Well the spec is optional, so they can still just make games for the base system and patch in extra stuff later if they want to, which is pretty much what they do now anyway, when they release their broken games that need patching after launch.

 

[DrROBschiz]

Any time someone in here comes out against this upgrade they're essentially told to stop being poor, or that their PS4 isn't going to magically become a brick, as if there isn't a ton of evidence suggesting that games developed with multiple target specs in kind often suffer on the weaker hardware. And a few devs have chimed in and given their thoughts on it and are also talked over.

But we have already been having this conversation with PC multiplats for YEARS now

The paradigm hasnt changed

 

[Psychoward]

Third party exclusives are nigh non existent si I don't know where you're coming from with that.

Meh, I've played quite a few this gen that i would have been sad to miss out on. And ports are still important meng, to go from the ps3 attitude of "yeah its harder to develop for but who gives a shit" and get games like Skyrim, Fallout 3, RDR, Bayonetta on the ps3 which were all much worse than their 360 versions, to the ps4 model of "yeah guys devs matter, being easy to develop matters" to back to the old way that some posters here are talking about is disheartening.

 

[Serick]

That's a publisher issue, not a developer issue.

That isn't entirely true either.

 

[Black Duke]

Exactly. This will be a case by case thing I think. For example, Monster Hunter games run well on both but are clearly enhanced by New 3DS (although this is partly due to the extra nub, and control wise nothing will likely change with PS4 Neo).

Of course there is really no difference in the majority of N3DS games, and it seems like sony is mandating a NEO mode. So it will be interesting to see how this plays out.

For multiplatform console games, they will still target PS4 and Xbox One userbase first, and then enhance for PS4K. I don't think they'll develop a X1 version of the game and a PS4K version of the game, then downgrade the latter to PS4 base model.

 

[Three]

I wonder if some smaller devs can't afford to 'get used to it' and will just keep their game on PC, instead.

Oh sh*t I can't afford to make a game for two iterations of hardware guess I'll just make it for the platform that has several orders of magnitude more iterations.

 

[Maintenance]

But we have already been having this conversation with PC multiplats for YEARS now

The paradigm hasnt changed

Except you can bruteforce your way on PC (most of the time). Good luck doing that with the PS4. (Talking about "multiple target specs in kind often suffer on the weaker hardware").

 

[Boke1879]

With anything you'll have some people ok with this and not ok with this.

We have devs here in our very own forum explaining the situation logically that's being ignored. Of course it'll be more work. These versions just aren't going to make themselves.

That said the devs give a very logical explanation about how this will play out.

 

[[Agent]ZeroNine]

The negative sentiment around the PS4K is literally crying about options.
The only necessary change i can think of is having a longer form to fill out
when submitting content for approval. From what we've heard, NOTHING
is mandating a customer to buy other than they're emotions. Same for
devs. Whatever. I'm in, and I'll continue to shake my head at those whining
without a legitimate issue. Internet gonna internet or something like that i
suppose.

 

[KOHIPEET]

I think we've reached a point where a poll is needed.

Do you like the idea of incremental updates for consoles?

No.

No.

Spoiler

Yes

 

[Bots are better than you]

Interesting how you ignore the actual devs that have chimed in on NeoGAF though, huh?

You just want to run with a tweet that says "most developers aren't happy" and whine if anyone takes it to task. Who is the source and how does this source know how "most developers" feel?

Well, just like you're trying your best to ignore the devs that this Colin talked to. Someone in this thread wrote that this dude should have some solid sources in the industry and at Sony, so if this is true, then i guess he really talked to devs.

 

[TheXbox]

It's another platform. This can't be a shock to anyone.

 

[TetraGenesis]

Not saying his source is wrong, but Colin is adamantly against the idea of NEO (to an obnoxiously shouty degree) so the information he seeks out and shares is going to be biased in that direction. I like Colin generally but I had to turn off PS I Love You today because the 25 minutes I listened to were nothing but him yelling in my ear.

 

[DrROBschiz]

I imagine any Dev that doesnt "code to the metal" of PS4 will have little issue with this

Hell a lot of Multiplat devs still make PS3/360 games

 

[Psychoward]

I'd like to see the data on this.

Maybe the 20 million people that bought a ps4 in the last year. If you think those people are gonna be jumping the gun at a new upgrade for a gaming console you're pretty insulated in the hardcore community.

 

[Clockwork5]

Meh. They will manage. Exact same architecture, just throw better AA on or add a few FPS and call it a day.

Anyway with drudging performance on a significant portion of the library of this "new" gen, who is to blame here?

 

[sflufan]

Bioware has done so.

No, BioWare has not done so.

Greg Zeschuk (who made those comments) retired from Bioware years ago.

 

[davepoobond]

"not happy about programming for X as it is different than Y"


when is it ever not true?

 

[Gaz_RB]

There is literally zero way in which it's bad for consumers (unless dev frustration ends up with bugs in games).

Delays, less games in general, more time spent on graphics/optimization across two specs and less on gameplay

 

[Audioboxer]

Oh sh*t I can't afford to make a game for two iterations of hardware guess I'll just make it for the platform that has several orders of magnitude more iterations.

And ignore pub fund and other tools MS/Sony may be able to aid me with...

 

[NullPointer]

You do realize that there is a hell of a lot more than development that goes into making software, right? There's an entire process and adding a second set of hardware adds requirements at every single level along the way. It's not just, "oh, it's extra work, yawn." That's insulting to people who actually know what is going on.

And seriously, how many games are releasing these days completely finished and performing well across all versions?

Where is this extra time to polish yet another revision coming from?

Something has to give.

 

[Lady Gaia]

Yep, it's the price of a new gen with none o the benefits.

From a developer perspective it's a fraction of the price with only some of the benefits. Same architecture, same tools, one software SKU shared across two consoles. The most obvious extra cost is qualification, and time will tell whether it literally means doubling QA staff to test everything twice or if developers can find ways to mitigate that effort.

Smoothing out the generation shifts is in everybody's interests. Time will tell if this works out well or not.

 

[OrbitalBeard]

Meh, I've played quite a few this gen that i would have been sad to miss out on. And ports are still important meng, to go from the ps3 attitude of "yeah its harder to develop for but who gives a shit" and get games like Skyrim, Fallout 3, RDR, Bayonetta on the ps3 which were all much worse than their 360 versions, to the ps4 model of "yeah guys devs matter, being easy to develop matters" to back to the old way that some posters here are talking about is disheartening.

I still can't grasp why you're comparing a boost in specs to PS3's Cell.

Yes, it's going to be more work for the developers (no shit) but man, the hyperbole in your posts keeps growing.

Maybe the 20 million people that bought a ps4 in the last year. If you think those people are gonna be jumping the gun at a new upgrade for a gaming console you're pretty insulated in the hardcore community.

If only upcoming PS4 games worked on their current hardware....

I bought a PS4 seven months ago. I'm gonna' be fine. I'm probably not buying this revision for awhile and I'll survive!.

 

[TGO]

Not surprising when no one really asked for it.

But they did.
this has been a topic on GAF for over a year.

 

[KORNdoggy]

I wonder if any of them are the same devs who released PS3/ 360 versions of their games 2 years into this consoles cycle? I'm curious.

 

[Risk Breaker]

Yeah, sorry...I just re-read you're post and we're saying the same thing.

Hahah, it's cool. I just read your post a few times and was tremendously confused. Had a long day at work

 

[Serick]

Delays, less games in general, more time spent on graphics/optimization across two specs and less on gameplay

People who work on gameplay don't work on optimizing graphics and engines. :|

Edit:

Spoiler

In before "but but indies do all the things!". They're also not targeting cutting edge graphics :|

 

[Blanquito]

Actual, real, human developers posting their thoughts here... being completely ignored.

It's been quite the trend lately.

 

[Boke1879]

Maybe the 20 million people that bought a ps4 in the last year. If you think those people are gonna be jumping the gun at a new upgrade for a gaming console you're pretty insulated in the hardcore community.

And they don't have to. They can continue to play their current ps4 and games. No problem

 

[thelastword]

Are these consoles made for these devs "who are clearly not optimizing their games" to resolution and frame perfect products? or are these consoles made for the millions of people who will buy them? Also, who are these devs btw?

When the NEO gets a huge fanbase and sells a truckload, what will they say then...

 

[DrROBschiz]

Maybe the 20 million people that bought a ps4 in the last year. If you think those people are gonna be jumping the gun at a new upgrade for a gaming console you're pretty insulated in the hardcore community.

Umm the mass market will just... not buy it?

 

[Alucrid]

Well, just like you're trying your best to ignore the devs that this Colin talked to. Someone in this thread wrote that this dude should have some solid sources in the industry and at Sony, so if this is true, then i guess he really talked to devs.

it says he talked to a source and it was that source who talked with the devs.

 

[vpance]

You do realize that there is a hell of a lot more than development that goes into making software, right? There's an entire process and adding a second set of hardware adds requirements at every single level along the way. It's not just, "oh, it's extra work, yawn." That's insulting to people who actually know what is going on.

Of course there's extra work. If the time lines don't change to accommodate that then that is on Ubi/Acti/EA. So sure, I would complain about it too since we know how crazy crunch time can be and what assholes pubs are, but that is not on Sony.

 

[Psychoward]

The negative sentiment around the PS4K is literally crying about options.
The only necessary change i can think of is having a longer form to fill out
when submitting content for approval. From what we've heard, NOTHING
is mandating a customer to buy other than they're emotions. Same for
devs. Whatever. I'm in, and I'll continue to shake my head at those whining
without a legitimate issue. Internet gonna internet or something like that i
suppose.

We don't live in a vaccuum where the Neo won't affect the ps4 at all.

 

[Xando]

PS4K/XB1.5 idea seems to get worse and worse.

Devs are unhappy because they have even more work and players are unhappy because they get to pay 400€ for rather underwhelming tech (spec wise) again.

Of course MS and Sony are the ones making money from having consumers pay 800€ rather than 400€ per gen.

 

[Flopfan]

what a mess.

and sony had such goodwill with the developers too.