Support NeoGAF

[Armaros]

I honestly hope his campaign goes to the very end just to piss you off, Googleplex. Why are you so insecure? She has this in the bag, why worry? I'm a huge Bernie supporter, and I hope he tries to at the very least make her go to the far left.

Calling her unqualified.

Getting surrogates that call democrats whores.

Calling southern democratic votes a distortion of reality.

Sending false accusations of illegal campagin financing so he put it in a fundraising email. (Why didn't he sent anything to the FEC if something illegal was being done?)

Are to push Hillary to the left?

 

[teruterubozu]

Sanders will do what he feels is appropriate to support Clinton, he's as committed to preventing a Republican from winning as anyone.

That said, he was awfully convincing to many people that Clinton isn't a 'real liberal'. That's about as impressive of an accomplishment as anything he's done throughout the process. I didn't think he was that slick of a politician.

Obama already laid the groundwork in 2008. Honestly it's not that hard.

 

[ApharmdX]

Sanders will do what he feels is appropriate to support Clinton, he's as committed to preventing a Republican from winning as anyone.

That said, he was awfully convincing to many people that Clinton isn't a 'real liberal'. That's about as impressive of an accomplishment as anything he's done throughout the process. I didn't think he was that slick of a politician.

She described herself as "centrist". His job wasn't a hard one, lol.

 

[Fenderputty]

There's zero solid basis for this but okay.


His chances are slim but not non-existent. <-- That isn't up for debate. It's factual.

He will very likely lose but that doesn't matter if not everyone has had the chance to vote yet. For his whole political career he's always been one to champion democracy. In his view, it's not over until everyone has their say. The principle is important to him and it is to many of his followers. That shouldn't be reason to have no respect for someone.

What the fuck is "slim"? It's factual because "slim" is some arbitrary word that could mean anything above non existent. I'll tell you what "slim" really is:

Somewhere slightly above zero but not anywhere near close enough to continue on hurting Hillary's shot at the white house. Which is all he's doing at this point.

How the fuck do you campaign for someone effectively after calling them crooked and unqualified? How does he close the rift among leftists that he's helped create? With each passing day his ability to help Hillary will diminish and so will my respect. It's not like he, or any of his supporters give a shit, but that's the way I feel. Bernie can go get fucked if he's not dropped out by end of next week.

 

[Prodigal Son]

What the fuck is "slim"? It's factual because "slim" is some arbitrary word that could mean anything above non existent. I'll tell you what "slim" really is:

Somewhere slightly above zero but not anywhere near close enough to continue on hurting Hillary's shot at the white house. Which is all he's doing at this point.

How the fuck do you campaign for someone effectively after calling them crooked and unqualified? How does he close the rift among leftists that he's helped create? With each passing day his ability to help Hillary will diminish and so will my respect. It's not like he, or any of his supporters give a shit, but that's the way I feel. Bernie can go get fucked if he's not dropped out by end of next week.

You seem pretty upset, my man. Relax. It's cool. Hillary's got this in the bag. She's fortunate enough to be running against a likely insane Republican candidate. They'll try to pivot to the center but nothing will change the crazy stuff they've said before. She will and has capitalized on that and it'll likely take her straight to the white-house.

 

[marrec]

How the fuck do you campaign for someone effectively after calling them crooked and unqualified? How does he close the rift among leftists that he's helped create? With each passing day his ability to help Hillary will diminish and so will my respect. It's not like he, or any of his supporters give a shit, but that's the way I feel. Bernie can go get fucked if he's not dropped out by end of next week.

This question is easy.

The collective memory of US voters during Primary season is so short as to be almost non-existent. Bernie could drop out today, endorse Hillary tonight, and be shilling for her tomorrow and only die-hard kids from Reddit would blink an eye.

Forget it Jake, it's Politics.

 

[Aaron Strife]

This question is easy.

The collective memory of US voters during Primary season is so short as to be almost non-existent. Bernie could drop out today, endorse Hillary tonight, and be shilling for her tomorrow and only die-hard kids from Reddit would blink an eye.

Forget it Jake, it's Politics.

Yeah, I don't think it'll be that big of a deal. There will always be dead enders, but remember the shit people said about Obama in 08? Clinton and Biden both made very disparaging comments towards him and they became his #3 and #2 respectively.

It is shitty however seeing Bernie engage in negative character attacks after running explicitly "on the issues."

 

[OuterLimits]

So Cruz said this morning that "Trump supporters should just put Hillary stickers on their car" For some reason, he keeps attacking the voters and not just the candidate. Seems like a bad strategy to me.

In NY he came in dead last with the evangelical vote.((22%) Granted, the evangelical vote was only 30% of the total, but that is still about 200,000 voters or so. His support among evangelicals seems to be dropping. He struggled with them some in the South as well, but not this bad. That should be one of his strongest support groups.

 

[Maxim726X]

This question is easy.

The collective memory of US voters during Primary season is so short as to be almost non-existent. Bernie could drop out today, endorse Hillary tonight, and be shilling for her tomorrow and only die-hard kids from Reddit would blink an eye.

Forget it Jake, it's Politics.

There is certainly historical precedence for this, and you only have to go back to 2008.

Ultimately, once the bat-shit crazy Republican candidate debates Hillary, I have a sneaking suspicion that hard-core Bernie supporters will gladly support Hillary.

 

[Fenderputty]

You seem pretty upset, my man. Relax. It's cool. Hillary's got this in the bag. .

Not according to your average Bernie supporter. You know, the people who keep pushing for him to continue on with his "message". There's a reason conservatives are happy he's staying in. There's a reason they're not attacking him. I wonder why that is .....

This question is easy.

The collective memory of US voters during Primary season is so short as to be almost non-existent. Bernie could drop out today, endorse Hillary tonight, and be shilling for her tomorrow and only die-hard kids from Reddit would blink an eye.

Forget it Jake, it's Politics.

Maybe, probably. Still upset. This Primary fucking blows.

 

[Kid Kamikaze10]

How the fuck do you campaign for someone effectively after calling them crooked and unqualified? How does he close the rift among leftists that he's helped create? With each passing day his ability to help Hillary will diminish and so will my respect. It's not like he, or any of his supporters give a shit, but that's the way I feel. Bernie can go get fucked if he's not dropped out by end of next week.

The same way Hillary did for Obama?

I mean, I'm pretty sick of how Bernie and especially his supporters have been handling this primary, but Clinton/Obama got mighty ugly too.

 

[Wolfgunblood Garopa]

Eh, his target was Hillary Clinton.

She's consistently one of the most polarizing politicians. A large minority of voters just can't accept a powerful, no nonsense woman. So convincing a lot of people that she's not a "real liberal" was fairly easy.

He probably could have convinced them that she's a lizard person.

Obama already laid the groundwork in 2008. Honestly it's not that hard.

She described herself as "centrist". His job wasn't a hard one, lol.

I'm used to the decades of right wing narrative that she's an extreme hard left liberal. Apparently that was a nothing all this time.

 

[Prodigal Son]

Not according to your average Bernie supporter. You know, the people who keep pushing for him to continue on with his "message". There's a reason conservatives are happy he's staying in. There's a reason they're not attacking him. I wonder why that is .....

Because they expect him to be an easier target than Clinton? They pretty much emptied out the magazine on what they can attack Hillary with. They'll attack her, but they don't have anything 'new'. They expect that hammering in on Bernie's socialism will somehow be his undoing and turn all those 'Bernie-bros' and half of the democratic party away from him. Republicans have never been the smart ones.

 

[Irnbru]

Because they expect him to be an easier target than Clinton? They pretty much emptied out the magazine on what they can attack Hillary with. They'll attack her, but they don't have anything 'new'. They expect that hammering in on Bernie's socialism will somehow be his undoing. Republicans have never been the smart ones.

They'll attack him on his tax plan and that will be his undoing, just check out the Bernie tax thread here for a taste of what higher taxes discussion will do.

 

[teruterubozu]

I'm used to the decades of right wing narrative that she's an extreme hard left liberal. Apparently that was a nothing all this time.

Nah, the right paints her as corrupt, more than a uber liberal socialist.

 

[TheOfficeMut]

Because they expect him to be an easier target than Clinton? They pretty much emptied out the magazine on what they can attack Hillary with. They'll attack her, but they don't have anything 'new'. They expect that hammering in on Bernie's socialism will somehow be his undoing and turn all those 'Bernie-bros' and half of the democratic party away from him. Republicans have never been the smart ones.

Uhm, that's what the poster you quoted was saying in other words. But are you refuting that Bernie would take a greater beating in the GE? I'm confused by your tone.

 

[dramatis]

.

Hey, could you all seriously shut up about how mean the other side is being to you? If you think a user is breaking the rules, notify a moderator. Otherwise, address the topic, or go do something else.

 

[ApharmdX]

Not according to your average Bernie supporter. You know, the people who keep pushing for him to continue on with his "message". There's a reason conservatives are happy he's staying in. There's a reason they're not attacking him. I wonder why that is .....



Maybe, probably. Still upset. This Primary fucking blows.

It's an important message, the most important one in American politics today. I love that he is still in this.

You seem pretty upset, my man. Relax. It's cool. Hillary's got this in the bag. She's fortunate enough to be running against a likely insane Republican candidate. They'll try to pivot to the center but nothing will change the crazy stuff they've said before. She will and has capitalized on that and it'll likely take her straight to the white-house.

Yeah, against any reasonable candidate a weak politician with a record like Hillary's would be in a ton of trouble. The GOP is literally running Hitler and Mussolini (Trump and Cruz). She can survive a heated primary and still win this thing.

I'm used to the decades of right wing narrative that she's an extreme hard left liberal. Apparently that was a nothing all this time.

Yes, that was a nothing. No surprise there. Shit, to them, George W. Bush is a leftist.

 

[Prodigal Son]

Uhm, that's what the poster you quoted was saying in other words. But are you refuting that Bernie would take a greater beating in the GE? I'm confused by your tone.

They'll have more fresh attacks to throw at him. I'm questioning how effective they'd be. That's all.

They'll attack him on his tax plan and that will be his undoing, just check out the Bernie tax thread here for a taste of what higher taxes discussion will do.

I doubt it'd be is 'undoing' but taxes are also something I hadn't considered in my post. That's a good point.

Yeah, against any reasonable candidate a weak politician with a record like Hillary's would be in a ton of trouble. The GOP is literally running Hitler and Mussolini (Trump and Cruz). She can survive a heated primary and still win this thing.

.

 

[Fenderputty]

Because they expect him to be an easier target than Clinton? They pretty much emptied out the magazine on what they can attack Hillary with. They'll attack her, but they don't have anything 'new'. They expect that hammering in on Bernie's socialism will somehow be his undoing and turn all those 'Bernie-bros' and half of the democratic party away from him. Republicans have never been the smart ones.

Conservative radio was thanking Bernie this morning and it wasn't because they think he has a shot. They're thanking him for his continued attacks.

 

[mozfan12]

I'd like to know what your idea of her further moving to the left would be with regard to her current stances. What about her current views would have to change in order for her to be considered more left?

Someone else just said that this primary has been filled with a lot of empty promises (I don't need to point out which side has been considerably more unrealistic with his goals), and by that virtue, realistic expectations are now considered to be of moderate or conservative values, the minimum wage issue being one of them.

I'd like to know what your idea of her further moving to the left would be with regard to her current stances. What about her current views would have to change in order for her to be considered more left?

Someone else just said that this primary has been filled with a lot of empty promises (I don't need to point out which side has been considerably more unrealistic with his goals), and by that virtue, realistic expectations are now considered to be of moderate or conservative values, the minimum wage issue being one of them.

For one, I would love to see her recognize the right of the Palestinians to their own statehood and treating them as equals. Acting as if Isreal is protecting itself is disgeninous and gross when it is partly responsible for some of the worst human rights crimes in modern current history. I could never vote for someone who still defends Isreal after the crimes they have committed.


Second, her foreign policy seems to folllow the typical neoliberal response of throwing a chewed out bone to Latin America. How many Salvador Allendes do we have to go through? It's unforgivable that she is still sympathetic to a war criminal like Henry Kissinger.

 

[teruterubozu]

Conservative radio was thanking Bernie this morning and it wasn't because they think he has a shot. They're thanking him for his continued attacks.

So? Conservatives need to latch onto every fantasy at this point. Besides, it's just Glenn Beck, who lost a lot of relevance over the years.

 

[Joe Shlabotnik]

This question is easy.

The collective memory of US voters during Primary season is so short as to be almost non-existent. Bernie could drop out today, endorse Hillary tonight, and be shilling for her tomorrow and only die-hard kids from Reddit would blink an eye.

Forget it Jake, it's Politics.

Yep. Even Sanders doesn't mean everything he says in a heated political campaign, that's just the nature of the beast.

 

[TheOfficeMut]

They'll have more fresh attacks to throw at him. I'm questioning how effective they'd be. That's all.



I doubt it'd be is 'undoing' but taxes are also something I hadn't considered in my post. That's a good point.

But why wouldn't fresh attacks be effective? They'd be the new thing to harp on. All of Clinton's "issues" have settled in, but newly adverse information of Sanders would be a shock to many. Personally, I think Sanders would get his ass handed to him once the Republican rhetoric machine churns.

 

[Wolfgunblood Garopa]

Nah, the right paints her as corrupt, more than a uber liberal socialist.

Come on now. Right wing narrative has benefited greatly from using Hillary Clinton as the prototypical extreme liberal who has extreme left wing values that should scare everyone. The standard issue de-legitimize stuff is of course a part of the deal.

 

[marrec]

Come on now. Right wing narrative has benefited greatly from using Hillary Clinton as the prototypical extreme liberal who has extreme left wing values that should scare everyone. The standard issue de-legitimize stuff is of course a part of the deal.

I dunno about that, I was pretty conservative during the 90s and early 00s and never viewed her as an example of an extreme liberal. Her and her husband were viewed more as a prototypical corrupt political dynasty. I dunno where you were getting this part of the narrative from but I wasn't hearing it.

 

[Fenderputty]

So? Conservatives need to latch onto every fantasy at this point.

So ... my point is that he's not doing any good at this point besides helping the GOP. His message changed from pushing liberal ideals to attacks on Hillary. His liberal ideals are currently being blasted as unrealistic because he's got no ideas about how to accomplish them and they're based on magical economic number pulled from his ass.

 

[Kite]

The problem is that Bernie is swimming in money donations so how and why would he drop out without pissing off his donors? It's kinda sad though, like watching people drop $$ on a kickstarter that you know is going fail and they aren't getting their $$ back.

 

[teruterubozu]

Come on now. Right wing narrative has benefited greatly from using Hillary Clinton as the prototypical extreme liberal who has extreme left wing values that should scare everyone. The standard issue de-legitimize stuff is of course a part of the deal.

she ran as a blue collar democrat in '08. Hey, I'm an old man, maybe your memory is fresher. She's more left today than I ever remember in the past.

 

[Prodigal Son]

But why wouldn't fresh attacks be effective? They'd be the new thing to harp on. All of Clinton's "issues" have settled in, but newly adverse information of Sanders would be a shock to many. Personally, I think Sanders would get his ass handed to him once the Republican rhetoric machine churns.

Because, in an age of mass, freely available information, calling someone a 'socialist' is no longer a knock-out pejorative. Republicans make an accusation, people google it. They get the facts (which conflict with their rhetoric) and the truth comes out on top. The kind of people who wouldn't look into baseless right-wing claims are likely right-wing voters in the first place.

 

[TheOfficeMut]

What's a good website that aggregates all of the candidates' policy views? I'd like to compare more in-depth.

Because, in an age of mass, freely available information, calling someone a 'socialist' is no longer a knock-out pejorative. Republicans make an accusation, people google it. They get the facts (which conflict with their rhetoric) and the truth comes out on top. The kind of people who wouldn't look into baseless right-wing claims are likely right-wing voters in the first place.

You give access to information via the internet way too much credit. Just because it exists does not mean people utilize it to become more informed. People still gravitate toward communities and websites they feel comfortable with; communities they share common values and opinions with. We still have so many uninformed people running around despite information access having never been greater in human history.

That is not to say that the internet does not facilitate knowledge, because it does. People are more informed of the world today than ever before, but at the same time they're just as fucking stupid because they accept the first piece of information they get without cross-checking with other outlets. And should that information align with their preconceived notions, what incentive do they have to go out and disprove their own beliefs?

 

[Wolfgunblood Garopa]

I dunno about that, I was pretty conservative during the 90s and early 00s and never viewed her as an example of an extreme liberal. Her and her husband were viewed more as a prototypical corrupt political dynasty. I dunno where you were getting this part of the narrative from but I wasn't hearing it.

she ran as a blue collar democrat in '08. Hey, I'm an old man, maybe your memory is fresher. She's more left today than I ever remember in the past.

It doesn't matter what reality was or is, she's been right wing talk's left wing boogeyman for a long time.

 

[JABEE]

So Cruz said this morning that "Trump supporters should just put Hillary stickers on their car" For some reason, he keeps attacking the voters and not just the candidate. Seems like a bad strategy to me.

In NY he came in dead last with the evangelical vote.((22%) Granted, the evangelical vote was only 30% of the total, but that is still about 200,000 voters or so. His support among evangelicals seems to be dropping. He struggled with them some in the South as well, but not this bad. That should be one of his strongest support groups.

Cruz doesn't care about winning over voters, it's all about the leverage and war games for him.

 

[Fenderputty]

Because, in an age of mass, freely available information, calling someone a 'socialist' is no longer a knock-out pejorative. .

Sure thing. Keep telling yourself that.

 

[Joe Shlabotnik]

I doubt it'd be is 'undoing' but taxes are also something I hadn't considered in my post. That's a good point.

It's political suicide in an election, or at least it is until someone proves otherwise, because it has surely proved to be true in the past. And it's not like people stopped complaining about taxes.

We'd really be taking a flyer on a paradigmatic shift in voter concerns with Sanders. We'd have to hope that the GOP tactic of laying off him in the primaries backfired in that the general electorate acclimated to and accepted his redistributive arguments by the time they start to attack them. Basically just "maybe things are different now".

 

[Zornack]

Because, in an age of mass, freely available information, calling someone a 'socialist' is no longer a knock-out pejorative. Republicans make an accusation, people google it. They get the facts (which conflict with their rhetoric) and the truth comes out on top. The kind of people who wouldn't look into baseless right-wing claims are likely right-wing voters in the first place.

29% of independents think Obama is Muslim.

 

[teruterubozu]

It doesn't matter what reality was or is, she's been right wing talk's left wing boogeyman for a long time.

Well yeah, she's a Clinton. The Clintons gave birth to people like Rush Limbaugh. But the original argument was how Bernie made her look conservative, which I'm saying it hasn't been that hard for opposing candidates.

 

[gutter_trash]

Conservative radio was thanking Bernie this morning and it wasn't because they think he has a shot. They're thanking him for his continued attacks.

Rush Limbaugh's Operation Chaos.

Fox News has been so nice to Bernie, because they have both a common enemy: Hillary
+ Bernie would be easier for the Right to Dukakiss

The Right is unable to Dukakiss the Clintons

 

[marrec]

It doesn't matter what reality was or is, she's been right wing talk's left wing boogeyman for a long time.

How long?

Obama's been THE boogeyman since 2008. Even in 2008 she was seen as the more moderate choice between the two of them.

Since then she's been painted as a conniving manipulator rather than any kind of uber-liberal.

I mean, it's not a big deal, but if you're going to continue to push this theory I'm really going to need the see some receipts lol

Yes, she's obviously a liberal and to the left of the majority of the right, but I don't think I've ever heard the narrative that she's some extreme kooky liberal.

 

[Prodigal Son]

Sure thing. Keep telling yourself that.

Yeah. I will. It's why he ever stood a chance in the first place. People did research. It's why Clinton is under fire too. Free information.

Conservative radio was thanking Bernie this morning and it wasn't because they think he has a shot. They're thanking him for his continued attacks.

Okay, dude. I get it. You've said that a bunch already. Why are you even siding with the rationale of these people anyway? They're wrong about virtually everything else but right about this?
The democratic party is divided. It's a primary. It happens. The division ending this or next month won't be the difference between a Clinton presidency or not. If Clinton lost to Donald fucking Trump or motherfucking Ted Cruz, of all people in the world, it'll be because of her own apparent faults.

29% of independents think Obama is Muslim.

Um. Okay? Perhaps 70% of people did their research then.

If we didn't have the internet, Bernie wouldn't have ever stood a chance. The implication that mass-information's impact in these elections is minimal is silly.

 

[Kite]

What's a good website that aggregates all of the candidates' policy views? I'd like to compare more in-depth.

I like http://www.ontheissues.org

 

[Zornack]

Um. Okay? I take it 70% of people did their research then.

2015, three years since Obama last ran for office, and nearly a third of independents still believe he is Muslim. Your claim that "they get the facts (which conflict with their rhetoric) and the truth comes out on top" isn't true.

 

[titiklabingapat]

Sanders will do what he feels is appropriate to support Clinton, he's as committed to preventing a Republican from winning as anyone.

That said, he was awfully convincing to many people that Clinton isn't a 'real liberal'. That's about as impressive of an accomplishment as anything he's done throughout the process. I didn't think he was that slick of a politician.

I mean the guy conveniently became a Democrat last year. That should have been all the clue you needed.

 

[TheOfficeMut]

I like http://www.ontheissues.org

Thanks.

 

[ApharmdX]

Because, in an age of mass, freely available information, calling someone a 'socialist' is no longer a knock-out pejorative. Republicans make an accusation, people google it. They get the facts (which conflict with their rhetoric) and the truth comes out on top. The kind of people who wouldn't look into baseless right-wing claims are likely right-wing voters in the first place.

I think this isn't true, depending on age. Voters in their late 30's and 40's will remember the red scare. Better dead than red, and all those lies.

 

[Prodigal Son]

2015, over three years since Obama has ran for office, and nearly a third of independents still believe he is Muslim. Your claim that "they get the facts (which conflict with their rhetoric) and the truth comes out on top" isn't true.

Virtually everything else about this election says otherwise though. Not to mention that Obama ended up doing well with independents anyway.

How do you think a socialist did as well as he did?

Democratic socialism was a top google search during almost every Bernie-debate.

I think this isn't true, depending on age. Voters in their late 30's and 40's will remember the red scare. Better dead than red, and all those lies.

I think I remember the polls that said this. I'd like to see them now in comparison to when they were taken last year.

 

[Dash_Riprock]

Because, in an age of mass, freely available information, calling someone a 'socialist' is no longer a knock-out pejorative. Republicans make an accusation, people google it. They get the facts (which conflict with their rhetoric) and the truth comes out on top. The kind of people who wouldn't look into baseless right-wing claims are likely right-wing voters in the first place.

The only group that might do that are Millennials, and, as this Primary painfully demonstrated, those lazy bums don't vote.

 

[Zornack]

Virtually everything else about this election says otherwise though. Not to mention that Obama ended up doing well with independents anyway.

How do you think a socialist did as well as he did?

Democratic socialism was a top google search during almost every Bernie-debate

Because this is the democratic primary. A far left candidate doing well here isn't anything new. It's happened before, it'll happen again.

 

[gutter_trash]

I don't understand why Prodgial Son keeps on tryng to sell the notion that every average person today understands the definition of ''Socialist'' is in 2016

some people just want to be Dukakissed

 

[Prodigal Son]

The only group that might do that are Millennials, and, as this Primary painfully demonstrated, those lazy bums don't vote.

Pretty closed minded perspective, in my view.

Like 6% of America trusts the media.

Yet something close to 70% of America uses a smartphone last time I checked. More than ever, people conduct research.

Because this is the democratic primary. A far left candidate doing well here isn't anything new. It's happened before, it'll happen again.

Try not to conflate far left with socialism. We both know they aren't perceived the same way. Do you really think the same polls that show how few people would vote for a socialist would say the same of someone who is very liberal or progressive? Please.