Star Fox Zero |OT| The Fox Awakens

TDLink said:
I think reviews are legitimate impressions but reviewers also literally have to play the game (except in Polygon's case where they decide to not do their job). If it's a game they have no interest in to begin with that can create a bit of resentment naturally. Additionally it means they're under pressure to finish the game as fast as possible in order to move on to the next one. This means they aren't always playing in the same way the average person would, or exploring all the game has to offer. Typically their job is to just get to the credits unless there's a major multiplayer component, and in this game's case getting to the credits does not showcase all of the levels. I'm generalizing of course, some reviews out there do more fully explore a game before putting out a review. But I understand the general distrust of review scores (except when they're reaffirming what people already wanted to think of course lol). And this has definitely led to some amazing games being treated pretty unfairly (like Wonderful 101) by reviewers due to them not having time to really comprehend and the pressure to finish creating greater frustration/lack of desire to comprehend.

I personally do find longer term impressions much more valuable and I'm waiting to see how it all hashes out. I don't think buying on day one is a necessity. This way there will be enough genuine impressions not colored by "hype" or whatever.
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Fair enough
 
Long-term impressions will go one of two ways:

1) More people try the game, make a hasty decision they don't like it after spending a few hours with it and not learning it, and then write it off

or

2) More people spend more time with the game, actually learn how to play it, and discover it delivers meaningful new gameplay depth that is addictive and fun


This is a game where you need to put in time and learn.

Imagine if you were tasked with reviewing a fighting game but didn't know how to do QCF, QCB, HCF, HCB, etc. Imagine if you played the game but never bothered to learn. Of course you wouldn't think it's very fun, because you'd only be scratching the surface of its potential — barely the tip of the iceberg. And chances are you'd be growing frustrated in scenarios that expect you to put in the time and learn.

Fighting games don't have that problem, of course, because they're well-established in their conventions by this point. But Star Fox Zero might as well be a whole new genre. The world's first twin-stick twin-screen motion-enhanced asymmetric shooter.

Those who learn it, will love it. Those who try it and can't be bothered will just add to the chorus of naysayers.
 
balladofwindfishes said:
hmm-mmm a high quality rip of Star Wolf's theme

This game is making want Wolf back in Smash so badly. The Wolfen Walker needs to be a Final Smash.
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If the next smash still has everyone from Star Fox in a landmaster I'm going to flip. We've got plenty of Final Smash friendly vehicles now! Arwing swoops in and chicken modes! Or the Boringwing! Some variety please and give Falco a goddamn flying machine, even if it stays on the ground and looks like a chicken.
 
Neiteio said:
Long-term impressions will go one of two ways:

1) More people try the game, make a hasty decision they don't like it after spending a few hours with it and not learning it, and then write it off

or

2) More people spend more time with the game, actually learn how to play it, and discover it delivers meaningful new gameplay depth that is addictive and fun


This is a game where you need to put in time and learn.

Imagine if you were tasked with reviewing a fighting game but didn't know how to do QCF, QCB, HCF, HCB, etc. Imagine if you played the game but never bothered to learn. Of course you wouldn't think it's very fun, because you'd only be scratching the surface of its potential — barely the tip of the iceberg. And chances are you'd be growing frustrated in scenarios that expect you to put in the time and learn.

Fighting games don't have that problem, of course, because they're well-established in their conventions by this point. But Star Fox Zero might as well be a whole new genre. The world's first twin-stick twin-screen motion-enhanced asymmetric shooter.

Those who learn it, will love it. Those who try it and can't be bothered will just add to the chorus of naysayers.
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So basically anyone that doesn't like it just doesn't know what they're talking about. Gotcha.
 
Zomba13 said:
If the next smash still has everyone from Star Fox in a landmaster I'm going to flip. We've got plenty of Final Smash friendly vehicles now! Arwing swoops in and chicken modes! Or the Boringwing! Some variety please and give Falco a goddamn flying machine, even if it stays on the ground and looks like a chicken.
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There's Falco Smash Land Master reference in SF:Z!

He says, word for word "personally, I prefer the air" when you first start using the Land Master. Which is his exact line when using his Final Smash. It's delivered roughly the same.

Fox can keep the Land Master, but Falco should get the chicken or something. Or just an Arwing. His Land Master will never make sense. Wolf returning with a recolored Land Master would be disgusting, since the Wolf Walker exists and is badass.
 
I spent about four hours with it and beat it. I think I spent enough time with it.

I died 3-5 times during the campaign, and found the boss a pain because of terrible design.
 
Xaero Gravity said:
So basically anyone that doesn't like it just doesn't know what they're talking about. Gotcha.
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A lot of the people who dislike the game seem to be struggling with the controls and twin-screen setup, which yes, would suggest they don't know how to play. I suck at fighting games and don't enjoy them (traditional ones, I mean) but I still recognize they're good games once someone understands their controls.
 
Neiteio said:
Long-term impressions will go one of two ways:

1) More people try the game, make a hasty decision they don't like it after spending a few hours with it and not learning it, and then write it off

or

2) More people spend more time with the game, actually learn how to play it, and discover it delivers meaningful new gameplay depth that is addictive and fun


This is a game where you need to put in time and learn.

Imagine if you were tasked with reviewing a fighting game but didn't know how to do QCF, QCB, HCF, HCB, etc. Imagine if you played the game but never bothered to learn. Of course you wouldn't think it's very fun, because you'd only be scratching the surface of its potential — barely the tip of the iceberg. And chances are you'd be growing frustrated in scenarios that expect you to put in the time and learn.

Fighting games don't have that problem, of course, because they're well-established in their conventions by this point. But Star Fox Zero might as well be a whole new genre. The world's first twin-stick twin-screen motion-enhanced asymmetric shooter.

Those who learn it, will love it. Those who try it and can't be bothered will just add to the chorus of naysayers.
Click to expand...

While I agree with your general sentiment, "can't be bothered" seems like an overly harsh generalisation. It's possible for one to dedicate time to learning something but still end up disliking it. Accusing them of laziness or lack of effort is unfair.
 
I still need to play Guard. I kind of avoided it because it sounds like it might not be for me. I hate starting things then not beating them.

Using different cameras sounds like it could turn me off. So could difficulty.
 
I posted this elsewhere, but I figured I'd share my thoughts here as well in case someone wants more impressions

It took 2 sessions and a little over 6 hours, but I beat and unlocked every stage in Star Fox Zero so I feel like I can express how I felt about the experience. It took me a little over 3 hours to get to and beat Andross, which was to be expected. What I did not expect was that there was only 1 Andross fight, unlike Star Fox 64. From what I've read thee are 19 unique paths to Andross, but only 1 version, which I have to admit is disappointing. The fight itself is dependent on how well you've adapted to the controls, it can range from frustrating to a pleasant challenge. Overall I had fun on that first run.

The controls were certainly a huge barrier for a lot of people and there were reports before the game even went out that they were not really usable by the developerrs (I would love to know the full story about this in a few years when we can hear directly from the development team about this story. I'm in the opinion that this was FUD spread around to insiders, but of course this is speculation on rumors so I know nothing about what happened). Anyways the controls do present a higher barrier of entry than is necessary for a Star Fox game, but they can be learned with patience and dedication. I felt like they clicked 1 and a half hours in give or take, but I would not hold it against someone who didn't like them. One thing that does bother me (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) but the D-pad is useless in the game.

For the vehicles, I did like them all, but the walker in particular was a rough learning curve due to the nature of its movement.

Star Wolf battles, like in Assault are the high point and I really like what they did with the fights.

In terms of the "slow gameplay" from e3 and whatnot, I didn't really feel like the game was slow. There were few times I was waiting to do something, the screen almost always had something for me to shoot at. Maybe I should give Sin and Punishment 2 another shot to understand this complaint

Now to the negatives, like I said earlier, the controls take a while to get used to and the lack of multiple endings is a bummer, but there are two other things that were stuck in my mind as I played.
1. This game was designed for 1v1 online multiplayer, this still disappoints me and with EA having the Star Wars license, I will continue to be disappointed.
2. There is no boss where Fox runs up a ship shooting it up a la Metal Gear Rising even though the intro really demonstrates that COULD be a thing.

TL;DR: I think Star Fox Zero is deserving of its 72, but I had a lot of fun with what I played and I know I will be going back soon to continue to play more as even the Star Wolf battles never get old upon replay.

I'd give this a 8/10 and recommend you look to rent the game first if you are interested but on the fence. If motion controls make you hesitate I wouldn't recommend it at all and would suggest you spend your money elsewhere
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Zomba13 said:
I know, and it's an issue with the game. I know they are lined up correctly to the cockpit, but they shouldn't on the screen. The screen should show where the shoot will go. Like, there should be two crosshairs, one for the TV screen, one for the gamepad, they shouldn't use the same on both because it's stupid. I have no problems in SF64 having my shots go where I expect them to. I don't have to adjust the crosshair so the square is just to the left or right of the weak point, I point it on the weakpoint and my shots hit where it says they will.

What if it was the other way? Like it lined up correctly on the TV screen but was off in the cockpit?

It's just something that forces you to look at the gamepad. Yeah you can play without doing it but your shots aren't accurate. It's ok when sweeping over a lot of enemies or hitting a bit target but then when you need to be accurate and it turns out that your shots will always miss unless you take your eyes off the screen it sucks.

The crosshairs are wrong on the TV screen. It doesn't matter that they are lined up with the ship, that isn't the view you have on the TV! It'd be like excusing the aim in a TPS "well of course the crosshairs are wrong! It's lined up for the guy not you!"
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I just watched some starfox64 and it's not how I remembered, it's actually closer to zero. The reticules don't show where the shot will go, the are indications of how the shot will travel through space, just like here. I think what makes it harder here is that the motion controls change the trajectory relative to the ship and the ship is smaller on the screen so it moves more.
 
TrueBlue said:
While I agree with your general sentiment, "can't be bothered" seems like an overly harsh generalisation. It's possible for one to dedicate time to learning something but still end up disliking it. Accusing them of laziness or lack of effort is unfair.
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Fair enough. Soften the wording to "those who try but give up before it clicks." For some people it clicks in the first hour, for others it will take many times longer.

I used fighting games as an example. Another example would be tank controls in old-school Resident Evil titles. It wasn't until this year that they finally clicked for me with REmake, and then I went on to finish RE2 and RE3. Now I love tank controls and understand their unique advantages.

But it took time to understand. It took me longer than other players, but when I got it, I got it.
 
This is gonna be one of those games like Kid Icarus Uprising or RE6 where I wish I could warp to the person's house and see how they're attempting to play the game
 
I got the game the yesterday but forgot to post here. Co-op is excellent, by far the best way to play. Communication during boss fights is so important. Since I was on gamepad through the whole story, it also allowed me to get a hang of the motion controls for single player. I've already gotten really good at the game and beat arcade mode.

I'm really enjoying the game!

I don't have Guard yet, sadly. I only had enough for Zero so I went with eShop.


Anyone ever play Star Wars Arcade on the 32x? Fun game. Co-op is very similar.
 
Is there no way to gift people games on the eShop? I sometimes feel the urge to buy things for people.

I'm not Mr. Pennypacker or anything, but sharing things that make people happy is worth it.
 
Nanashrew said:
I got the game the yesterday but forgot to post here. Co-op is excellent, by far the best way to play. Communication during boss fights is so important. Since I was on gamepad through the whole story, it also allowed me to get a hang of the motion controls for single player. I've already gotten really good at the game and beat arcade mode.

I'm really enjoying the game!

I don't have Guard yet, sadly. I only had enough for Zero so I went with eShop.


Anyone ever play Star Wars Arcade on the 32x? Fun game. Co-op is very similar.
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That's makes me want to give a shot through co op.
 
Xaero Gravity said:
That's makes me want to give a shot through co op.
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It's legit good! It's definitely more intense too in some levels having to communicate and line up the vehicle and your shots. One person controls the vehicle and single laser on the front, the other uses the gamepad to shoot their own lasers and use bombs anywhere they want same as Star Wars Arcade.

Feels like me and my brother are actual partners rather than always doing our own things to reach the end of a level.
 
Yeah, coop is a real blast in this and really shines during a lot of the boss encounters. Teaming up against the Aquarosa is a really neat experience when you have to coordinate together to make the most out of your attack runs on it.
 
Nanashrew said:
It's legit good! It's definitely more intense too in some levels having to communicate and line up the vehicle and your shots. One person controls the vehicle and single laser on the front, the other uses the gamepad to shoot their own lasers and use bombs anywhere they want same as Star Wars Arcade.

Feels like me and my brother are actual partners rather than always doing our own things to reach the end of a level.
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I've had a good experience with co-op as well mostly due to the fact that you do feel like partners and have to communicate with one another, very fun.
 
Jesus fuck.

How do you avoid Andross's grab attack? Do you just gotta shoot his hand enough before hand?
 
Kriken said:
I posted this elsewhere, but I figured I'd share my thoughts here as well in case someone wants more impressions
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Wait. You don't boost at large enemies in all range mode and switch to walker just as you get there to run across their bodies and hack them or whatever?

I love doing that :3


Neol said:
Jesus fuck.

How do you avoid Andross's grab attack? Do you just gotta shoot his hand enough before hand?
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I used bombs there
 
The Arwing stuff plays well enough and I see the potential, but the chickenwalker and gyrocopter back to back was pretty terrible. Wondering if I just threw $60 away.
 
Neol said:
Jesus fuck.

How do you avoid Andross's grab attack? Do you just gotta shoot his hand enough before hand?
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The electric grapple? Yeah you need to be pretty accurate when shooting him and not stop. I feel like I occasionally get better results if I pull back? But it might be placebo. Use your bomb if you can't get it down since it basically stuns him in one hit.
 
Are the controls precise when you get used to them, or is it always a novelty thing? I'm thinking specifically of Skyward Sword, which I still love the ambition of, but had to fight the imprecision all the way to the end credits.
 
Does anyone know why the gyrowing changes color?

I could swear that in the commercials it is blue but the first time you use it the color is green and now that i replayed the levels it was blue, so weird.
 
Elfforkusu said:
Are the controls precise when you get used to them, or is it always a novelty thing? I'm thinking specifically of Skyward Sword, which I still love the ambition of, but had to fight the imprecision all the way to the end credits.
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I find them super precise. You will need to recalibrate occasionaly, but it's instantly done with the press of a button.
 
I agree; once you get the hang of it the controls are super precise and allow for some really accurate distance shots among others.
 
TheDinoman said:
I was looking at the voice acting cast for this game on Behind The Voice Actors, and I noticed something interesting about Wolf: he's actually voiced by his Brawl actor, Jay Ward. Most of the game's VA cast seems to be carried over from SF643D where Wolf was voiced by Jaz Adams, so that's kinda surprising.

http://www.behindthevoiceactors.com/characters/Star-Fox/Wolf-ODonnell/
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I don't remember what he sounded like in 3D but I really love Wolf's voice in this one so I'm definitely not complaining
 
Kyzon said:
I used bombs there
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NotLiquid said:
The electric grapple? Yeah you need to be pretty accurate when shooting him and not stop. I feel like I occasionally get better results if I pull back? But it might be placebo. Use your bomb if you can't get it down since it basically stuns him in one hit.
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nckillthegrimace said:
Yes. It's easier to line up on the gamepad.
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Thanks for the advice.

That last boss felt more frustrating then intuitive. Problem I found was that it got to disorienting when you have to go into arwing and dodge the lasers as well as dodging Andross's attacks with Walker. Also the way the camera and walker movement worked felt very clunky when you have to face an opponent.

Otherwise the game and controls are good. Played a good amount of Splatoon which I felt help me pick up the controls pretty fast.
 
As a self professed loather of Kid Icarus' 3DS control scheme, Star Fox Zero has been a delight. Beat it earlier and while I'm still digesting the whole experience, I honestly can't wait to play more. Eyes dancing between the TV and gamepad in concert, wiping out lines of flying shitheads with a twist of the wrist, braking over a cluster of enemies and tilting the gamepad downward to drop a bomb on them, then arcing upward to blast a weak spot. This game is the business and holy crap, do I love it.

Guard is also something else. To an extent, it's similar to Captain Toad, in that it evokes that classic NES/arcade feeling found in Wrecking Crew, Gyromite and the like. As much as I've enjoyed Zero, a game like Guard is why I play games. Pure, no nonsense, "here is game. play game" design with just a splash of upgrades/itemization.

Still, it sucks to see so many people having a shit time with Zero, though.
 
TheDinoman said:
I was looking at the voice acting cast for this game on Behind The Voice Actors, and I noticed something interesting about Wolf: he's actually voiced by his Brawl actor, Jay Ward. Most of the game's VA cast seems to be carried over from SF643D where Wolf was voiced by Jaz Adams, so that's kinda surprising.

http://www.behindthevoiceactors.com/characters/Star-Fox/Wolf-ODonnell/
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NO WAY

NO FREAKING WAY

Best Wolf actor is best Wolf actor. That's why I like Wolf so much in this game. I couldn't quite put my finger on it.

They should have had him say "What's the matter, scared?" when you did a flip or something. I would have freaked out.
 
i haven't played the game yet, but i heard some of the soundtrack.

when the original starfox soundtrack gonna get some love? yes, this game has a couple tunes of the corneria theme, but since adventures, i only heard starfox 64 rearranges and not from the snes one.

i mean, i really wanna hear some new remixes taken from This amazing soundtrack.

but anyway, i am pleased of the whole work. It's a good soundtrack overall.
 
Just did the first corneria level, got silver medal on my first try. The regular arwing bits basically control exactly like old Star Fox, which is great. Don't even need motion for them. The dual screen stuff during all range mode is disorienting at first but I got used to it by the end of the first boss
 
FrostuTheNinja said:
As a self professed loather of Kid Icarus' 3DS control scheme, Star Fox Zero has been a delight. Beat it earlier and while I'm still digesting the whole experience, I honestly can't wait to play more. Eyes dancing between the TV and gamepad in concert, wiping out lines of flying shitheads with a twist of the wrist, braking over a cluster of enemies and tilting the gamepad downward to drop a bomb on them, then arcing upward to blast a weak spot. This game is the business and holy crap, do I love it.

Guard is also something else. To an extent, it's similar to Captain Toad, in that it evokes that classic NES/arcade feeling found in Wrecking Crew, Gyromite and the like. As much as I've enjoyed Zero, a game like Guard is why I play games. Pure, no nonsense, "here is game. play game" design with just a splash of upgrades/itemization.

Still, it sucks to see so many people having a shit time with Zero, though.
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Same for me. I couldn't get past the controls in Uprising but boy howdy is Zero another story. Great experience all around. Finding the medals and exploring the stages is very addictive.
 
TheDinoman said:
I was looking at the voice acting cast for this game on Behind The Voice Actors, and I noticed something interesting about Wolf: he's actually voiced by his Brawl actor, Jay Ward. Most of the game's VA cast seems to be carried over from SF643D where Wolf was voiced by Jaz Adams, so that's kinda surprising.

http://www.behindthevoiceactors.com/characters/Star-Fox/Wolf-ODonnell/
Click to expand...
Yeah, I noticed this the other day. I'm glad he was able to come back and work the voice into his own thing instead of just being told to mimic Grant Goodeve like in Brawl. Nothing against Jaz Adams doing it, but he too was forced to mimic a previous actor in 3D so it's not like there was really too much of an attachment there.

While I'm here, might as well say I really like how Mike West evolved the Fox voice for Zero, it feels a lot more natural now. The original was fine for 64 (and was probably supposed to mimic Mark Hamill as Luke in A New Hope) but for stuff like Smash 4 it was kinda getting a little grating.
 
mavo said:
Does anyone know why the gyrowing changes color?

I could swear that in the commercials it is blue but the first time you use it the color is green and now that i replayed the levels it was blue, so weird.
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When uou first use it in the colony it's just a general Cornerian army vehicle but afterwards it somehow transfers ownership to team Star Fox.
 
I just beat
Fichina
and MAN, do you lose your center fucking fast. I don't get why the game doesn't use the Sensor Bar for some re-calibration. It's such a big flaw with Gyro controls.
 
Just finished my first play through. The game got pretty easy towards the end when realize you should be utilizing the walker, but holy shit some of these boss fights and levels are easily the best in the series. That might be my favorite
Andross
fight in the series too. Game is incredible.
 
Jay Ward being Wolf is even weirder, since Jazz Adams was already the voice of Peppy, Andross and Bill.

They specifically picked his Brawl actor for some reason. The only main character (I believe) in the game not voiced by his 643D actor.

My mind is racing with Smash 4 NX conspiracies about this, and I need to stop.

Edit: Oh wait, Pepper/ROB got a new actor too. His SF64 Actor! Pigma is back to his 64 actor as well. They really went out of their way to make the voice acting in this game authentic

So these are the changes from 643D I could find (none of the peons like Caiman and "generic lizard boss man" are noted on BtVA)

Wolf: Brawl voice
Pepper: 64 Voice
Pigma: 64 Voice
ROB: 64 Voice (same actor as Pepper)
Andrew: Mike West now voices him

Crazy that they got these guys back.
 
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