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[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Especially if you play with the "Young Geralt" mod.

I don't even, what's the point?

I think it was mostly Geralt describing himself as an ugly-faced freak, but the man hates literally everything about himself in the source material, so I wouldn't trust his opinion. Later on most of that world's most powerful and attractive women were drooling in his general direction, as Sapkowski's writing got progressively pervier.

Because he was exotic and because Yennefer made him her territory, Witches don't really care for looks that much. Pretty sure it comes up quite often that he's ugly, narration and self introspective.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

Fair point and I understand.

But nothing that comes out of our studio is random, so if I read that our work is sexist I hear: "they think we intentionally made it sexist, they think we perceive women as sexual objects".

But sure, I might be overreacting, please excuse me. It`s Friday


And as I said: it`s my personal opinion, don`t take my posts as "CDPR response on social medias".

As has been iterated, I don't think anybody here thinks CDPR or its employees are sexists. But that doesn't mean an aspect of a piece of work can't potentially be sexist. Even I, one of those dreaded 'SJW' hated by many am guilty of doing or saying something sexist. When it's pointed out to me I attempt to dismiss my initial defensiveness and try to understand why what I did could be perceived that way so that I can become better. I think overall CDPR has, and will continue to learn from criticism. It's sort of why your games keep getting better and better, and why many of us, myself included, are looking forward to Cyberpunk 2077.

 

[aeolist]

When devs potentially start to feel pressured into changing things due to outrage it may not directly infringe on me but I worry as a collective for freedom of speech/freedom of artistic merit.

artists are under pressure from everyone at all times to make things that appeal to them. this has been the case since art was first created.

treating critiques like this as being different from people who bitch about FPSs or short games or pixel art is idiotic. things you like will still exist.

 

[RealityPales]

Not a smart move to burn bridges like that...

 

[User 73706]

1. Most powerful character in the entire *world* is a woman

This argument is no different than "racism ended when Obama became president".

When devs potentially start to feel pressured into changing things due to outrage it may not directly infringe on me but I worry as a collective for freedom of speech/freedom of artistic merit. I love videogames and I guess it's just a weakness of mine to take this debate so seriously. I think the government argument is more directly aimed at me, considering it's my PM David Cameron who was/is toying with the online porn banning stuff. Where there is smoke there is fire though, and without a doubt the topic of sex causes all sorts of moral debates and verges into censorship arguments globally. Like said women in certain countries who couldn't even show off a leg. Sexual repression is rampant in our world as well. Thankfully not in most Western countries, but the topic of it rears it's head here on occasion.

I think you're aiming that second part at the wrong guy, or have misunderstood my point. I was replying to that poster with trying to say most of us do know how to behave, but how do you stop those who don't at a public event? I know there doesn't need to be a law but in reply to that poster I was trying to draw out how tricky it is to en-masse curb such behaviour in public. Hence why I brought up the beach.

Gamedevs make the deliberate decision to switch to 60FPS / dynamic resolution as opposed to 1080p60 in order to suit development constraints in-engine: game will be suck unless change is made, developers aren't working hard enough
Someone brings up that gamedevs should treat women like people: THOUGHTCRIMES

 

[Cabbagehead]

Right, but why highlight these circumstances vs. any others in the trailer? It's not as though the developers simply *had* to highlight an incident involving a very sexualized woman. The choice is an artistic one, and it can be critiqued as yet another instance of intense female sexualization in the games industry.

Whenever you make art, you have to think about context and history. Showing a bunch of white people enjoying watermelon is different than showing the same scene with black people, because of context and history. Right now, the context and history of the games industry is one of intense female sexualization and sometimes objectification. That's going to change how scenes like this one are interpreted.

That's right interpreted, does not make it the right observation of the events happening in the trailers. Only one aspect of that work is being highlighted by that person or group. Regardless of context.

 

[Risk Breaker]

Look at those twitter replies, jesus, all the lamergators showing up at once

And yeah, I also find CDP games kind of sexist. It's also the main reason why my girlfriend won't play The Witcher, although she really likes the genre.

 

[Tecnniqe]

this tweet was badly put, but the bigger problem is people hearing "sexist" (or racist or whatever) as a criticism directed at a creative work and taking it personally

Well its kinda hard to not take it personally when you are working on the art being poorly criticized to begin with.

I bet if you spend day in and day out creating a game and get slammed with "Ahh this game is just as sexist as their previous one" you'd take that personally.

saying a game has a problem with depictions of women doesn't mean every single person who was involved with its creation is a misogynist wife-beater

It doesn't mean ANYONE involved is any of those things.

 

[Kinyou]

Ignoring criticism doesn't magically make it go away, especially since this is something that people have brought up many times in the past.

The lack of people of colour was a hot topic after Witcher 3 launched, and so CDPR added people from Ofier in Hearts of Stone.

Nobody's perfect, no art free from problems, so why should they ignore a chance to improve themselves, when they've already evolved from the devs who made sex a set of collectible cards?

Do we know that it was a response to critic or was it perhaps always planned that they play a role in the Dlc?

 

[Audioboxer]

I edited to improve clarity and focus. No information was lost

Anyway, I agree with your point but I think it's worth pointing out that systemic sexism acts like blinders on society: it gives tacit approval to problematic behaviour and it suggests that women have limited roles to play, especially in relation to men.



Women can be sexy, and you can enjoy that. Where it becomes problematic is when women are asked to objectify themselves for the sole reason of satisfying the sexual pleasures of men. That's hugely disempowering and exploitative.



Strawman. Nobody is asking for such things. Certainly not me.



You do not have a "right" to consume objectification.

I understand your point, but to further engage in the debate I want to play devils advocate. Instead of viewing it from someone being asked to be sexy, what happens if it's the individual asking to be sexy?

I mean for many it can be empowering to sexually present themselves? Personally I'm too shy and introverted to ever want to be the center of attention in real life, but personalities like that do exist. These people can't really be negatively put down as making themselves sexists can they? Possibly if it's misguided and mentally they are unstable, but if not, is it really exploitative for a man or women who wants to be sexually provocative to be so? As anyone sane has to agree sex in itself is completely humane, normal and can be part of a healthy lifestyle.

Heck we all do it to some extent when we engage in the human mating game called flirting.

tl;dr Not all women/men who want to appear sexy/engage in sexual acts are asked to do it, some might ask themselves to do it.

artists are under pressure from everyone at all times to make things that appeal to them. this has been the case since art was first created.

treating critiques like this as being different from people who bitch about FPSs or short games or pixel art is idiotic. things you like will still exist.

You're right. I just want Cyberpunk 2077 to be bad ass \m/

 

[xamidoxhua]

Why is a female presented this way in this picture that Cyberpunk fans post over and over again as if it is something to be proud of?

It's a familiar story 'trope' in the genre to have 'femme fatale' androids. Think Pris in BladeRunner, or if you've seen it the murderous android pleasure bots in Ghost in the Shell.

Cyberpunk as a genre deals a lot with sex, drugs and seediness - among other recurring themes are hedonism, sexuality and sexual exploitation, isolation, loss of humanity and moral decay.

Would you suggest that these sorts of depictions such as those of the female android in the trailer be avoided or not used? That creative teams self censor?

 

[aeolist]

Well its kinda hard to not take it personally when you are working on the art being poorly criticized to begin with.

I bet if you spend day in and day out creating a game and get slammed with "Ahh this game is just as sexist as their previous one" you'd take that personally.

i get that it's hard to take criticism but that's just something you have to deal with when you put yourself out there as an artist. it comes with the job.

I doesn't mean ANYONE involved is any of those things.

yeah that's my point

 

[xevis]

Right, but why highlight these circumstances vs. any others in the trailer? It's not as though the developers simply *had* to highlight an incident involving a very sexualized woman. The choice is an artistic one, and it can be critiqued as yet another instance of intense female sexualization in the games industry.

Terrific post!

 

[Velkyn]

When devs potentially start to feel pressured into changing things due to outrage it may not directly infringe on me but I worry as a collective for freedom of speech/freedom of artistic merit. I love videogames and I guess it's just a weakness of mine to take this debate so seriously. I think the government argument is more directly aimed at me, considering it's my PM David Cameron who was/is toying with the online porn banning stuff. Where there is smoke there is fire though, and without a doubt the topic of sex causes all sorts of moral debates and verges into censorship arguments globally. Like said women in certain countries who couldn't even show off a leg. Sexual repression is rampant in our world as well. Thankfully not in most Western countries, but the topic of it rears it's head here on occasion.

I think you're aiming that second part at the wrong guy, or have misunderstood my point. I was replying to that poster with trying to say most of us do know how to behave, but how do you stop those who don't at a public event? I know there doesn't need to be a law but in reply to that poster I was trying to draw out how tricky it is to en-masse curb such behaviour in public. Hence why I brought up the beach.

Like I've said elsewhere in the thread; saying "Hey devs, could you maybe take a look at how you portray women in your games?" does not equal censorship. There's no artistic merit in seeing panties, just like there was no artistic merit in the sex cards in W1, and just like there's no merit in having Quiet shove her ass into the camera in MGSV and there's no merit to that loli character in the new Star Ocean game to be in panties. Changes to these things are so utterly inconsequential because they are simply there to draw men's eyes to them, nothing more. Changing these things would not effect anything in the slightest in the game as a whole.

As to your second point: You stop those that won't stop being lecherous at a public event by warning them, and then removing them from the area. I've been a part of cons in the past, and it's really not complicated. The rules are generally: don't be a creep, and if you are you don't have a reason to be here.

I'm not attacking you personally by saying you should know not to stare, by the way. Just reinforcing my assumption that people are not fundamentally jerks at heart.

 

[Tecnniqe]

i get that it's hard to take criticism but that's just something you have to deal with when you put yourself out there as an artist. it comes with the job.



yeah that's my point

True, criticism is nice to have, but the way this was thrown out is out of place.

A company does not simply say "This company is sexist, AGAIN" and thats all they state.
For it to be useful criticism they would need to explain why and so on.

 

[Risk Breaker]

It's a familiar story 'trope' in the genre to have 'femme fatale' androids. Think Pris in BladeRunner, or if you've seen it the murderous android pleasure bots in Ghost in the Shell.

Cyberpunk as a genre deals a lot with sex, drugs and seediness - among other recurring themes are hedonism, sexuality and sexual exploitation, isolation, loss of humanity and moral decay.

Would you suggest that these sorts of depictions such as those of the female android in the trailer be avoided or not used? That creative teams self censor?

CENSOR, lol. It's called listening, thinking about people's feedback, avoiding tropes and trying to create something fresh, new, with meaning and inspired. You know, trying to improve oneself and one's work, to leave a positive mark on the world and make people think as well.

I never felt the trailer treated sexual exploitation or loss of humanity at all. It's just a cool looking action trailer with a hot android chick killing dudes. I mean, even Watch Dogs deals more with those themes.

 

[ElTorro]

I mean for many it can be empowering to sexually present themselves? Personally I'm too shy and introverted to ever want to be the center of attention in real life, but personalities like that do exist. These people can't really be negatively put down as making themselves sexists can they? Possibly if it's misguided and mentally they are unstable, but if not, is it really exploitative for a man or women who wants to be sexually provocative to be?

I've been to large public parties (Goth, Cybergoth) where women literally dress up like in the photo that we are discussing here or even in more revealing ways. One of my ex girlfriends, for instance, enjoyed that immensely and put a lot of effort into her costumes I'd find it pretty condescending to imply that these women are not doing this out of their own free will and not simply because they enjoy it. It is fine to discuss sexism, I do not want to take away all legitimacy out of such issues. But some people seem to assume that only men enjoy sexualized outfits and content or that women who participate are victims of systemic circumstances. That is simply incorrect.

 

[Generalpsyduck]

The Chinese room are one of the biggest jokes in the game industry.

Spoiler

hell most of the stuff they have developed have been shitty walking simulators

 

[Kinyou]

True, criticism is nice to have, but the way this was thrown out is out of place.

A company does not simply say "This company is sexist, AGAIN" and thats all they state.
For it to be useful criticism they would need to explain why and so on.

Yeah, they explain nothing, so I don't really fault any dev who might take that critic personal.

If people want a better response from devs to criticism than the criticism should also be at least a little substantial. The previous example with the Spelunky dev taking the criticism from Sarkeesian to heart might have ended differently if she had just pointed at his game saying "sexist"

 

[Fantastapotamus]

In the first image you can see the hate in the actress's glare. What does the second one say about anything? Nothing.

This is just weird. Comparing a real human to a CGI human is weird enough, but first of all I don't "see the hate" at all and second I don't understand your point. I understood the rest of your post even though I disagree with some of it, but this I just don't get.

f she were a killing robot weapon, shouldn't she just have no clothes, no hair, and be made of machinery? Why did they have to pick that particular portrayal: skimpy tight tube short dress with clear view of of her crotch? Why did she have to be kneeling like that as opposed to a battle position on her feet, since she was killing 14 people? (By the way, the dumbest thing in that trailer has to be the bullets shattering on her skimpy dress lol)

Not that we know anything about the story, but in the original Cyberpunk, as far as I remember, there was a Virus going around turning people/robots insane. So she doesn't have to be a "killing robot weapon" and could have been a regular person (or whatever) who went rogue, and then realised what she did. Again, this is all speculation. Maybe she is a Robot, maybe not. I don't remember how the Cyberpunk universe works.

 

[Cabbagehead]

I've been to large public parties (Goth, Cybergoth) where women literally dress up like in the photo that we are discussing here or even in more revealing ways. One of my ex girlfriends, for instance, enjoyed that immensely and put a lot of effort into her costumes I'd find it pretty condescending to imply that these women are not doing this out of their own free will and not simply because they enjoy it. Some people seem to assume that only men enjoy sexualized outfits and content or that women who participate are victims of systemic circumstances. That is simply incorrect.

It's a really bizarre mindset. People are their own people, no one is making them wear what they wear. Especially in the context of con or large gathering.

 

[thumb]

That's right interpreted, does not make it the right observation of the events happening in the trailers. Only one aspect of that work is being highlighted by that person or group. Regardless of context.

I agree. But sexist/racist/etc. actions do not have to be motivated by deep-seated prejudice. They can also represent unthinking, implicit endorsements of predjudical ideas. For example, reproducing common female tropes in video games without considering their current cultural meaning.

 

[Chû Totoro]

• Sexy is not sexist.
• Not liking an art direction (with sexy content) doesn't mean it has to be sexist so you can justify your opinion and erase everyone else's because politically incorrect.
• Not everything is black or white and context is really important.

People should learn to think by themselves instead of trying to put things in boxes so they could categorize them more easily.

Also learning to live with our differences is the way to go instead of trying to erase them.
Women are beautiful, they can be sexy. When I see a sexy woman I just think that I see a sexy woman, no need to make short cuts and jump to conclusions without more information. Actually it's thinking that a women dressed like this is a bad thing that is wrong thinking for me. Like saying that women shouldn't wear sexy clothes at all.

I was hesitant to post in this thread because it's almost always the same when people discuss homosexuality, sexism, racism... they are trying to look the more inclusive and tolerant possible on the Internet while I' sure a lot don't act accordingly in their lives.

CD Projekt Red shouldn't even acknowledge the existence of this tweet since it's imo an insult more than anything else to them.

And of course Chinese Room can have an opinion and find it sexist (I'm curious to know why) but if you just throw something like that then it's useless. Better keep your opinion for you.

PS: the behind the scene is very interesting (way better than all the drama around this very beautiful woman who may be embarrassed if she hear about this while she probably was happy and enjoyed doing this).

 

[Wagram]

CDProjekt RED, company of 370 employees, a lot from around the world, many women (brilliant and talented) but also minorities: gay, transsexual (we might have been one of the few companies who had transsexual lead), all treated equally with only respect and support.

But we`re called sexist for showing a boob or panties. Really?

We always aimed to tell stories about people. And there are people with boobs and people with panties. Sometimes both.





***this is my personal opinion and not of my employer***

Reanimator - you and the fine folks over at CDPR need to keep doing what you're doing. You've made awesome games for the past decade and I don't expect that to stop. There's a difference between Sexy and Sexist. Some of the shit Triss does is the series is insane (in a good way).

 

[SturokBGD]

"""politics"""

No, just regular politics.

 

[FunkyDealer]

If anything, the games are an accurate portrayal of the books. Which contain at least as much mature content.

 

[xevis]

I understand your point, but to further engage in the debate I want to play devils advocate. Instead of viewing it from someone being asked to be sexy, what happens if it's the individual asking to be sexy?

[snip]

... is it really exploitative for a man or women who wants to be sexually provocative to be so?

Two things:

1. It is possible for women to be portrayed as sexy and not be exploited. Context and framing is hugely important though. In the medium of games Bayonetta could be one such an example, though it's easy to argue the opposite (and many have).

2. As discussed, some women choose to present in an exploitative way, whether for pleasure or possibly to attain some perceived advantage, usually from men. You might even call the individual acts "empowered" but that would be wrong because they do nothing for the positive representation of women more broadly. i.e. usually these are just cases of women working successfully within the system rather than fighting against it.

 

[Audioboxer]

This argument is no different than "racism ended when Obama became president".



Gamedevs make the deliberate decision to switch to 60FPS / dynamic resolution as opposed to 1080p60 in order to suit development constraints in-engine: game will be suck unless change is made, developers aren't working hard enough
Someone brings up that gamedevs should treat women like people: THOUGHTCRIMES

I take a little bit of a hump with your boiled down argument in that someone from CDPR has already came in and confirmed the most important thing, the studio treats all sexes and sexual orientations as we would hope for. What these artists and devs agree on behind closed doors for their narrative should be second to that when narrative is fantasy.

Like I've said elsewhere in the thread; saying "Hey devs, could you maybe take a look at how you portray women in your games?" does not equal censorship. There's no artistic merit in seeing panties, just like there was no artistic merit in the sex cards in W1, and just like there's no merit in having Quiet shove her ass into the camera in MGSV and there's no merit to that loli character in the new Star Ocean game to be in panties. Changes to these things are so utterly inconsequential because they are simply there to draw men's eyes to them, nothing more. Changing these things would not effect anything in the slightest in the game as a whole.

As to your second point: You stop those that won't stop being lecherous at a public event by warning them, and then removing them from the area. I've been a part of cons in the past, and it's really not complicated. The rules are generally: don't be a creep, and if you are you don't have a reason to be here.

I'm not attacking you personally by saying you should know not to stare, by the way. Just reinforcing my assumption that people are not fundamentally jerks at heart.

There is merit in most of what you listed, sometimes though it is simply sexual flaunting. Sexual flaunting however isn't illegal and happens in real life. We've verged onto discussing that with women who may be empowered to dress as a certain cosplay character they like. One has to look at sexuality on an individual case by case basis. I think with the post from the guy/girl at CDPR in here we can safely assume they are being sexual for entertainment reasons and not for any worryingly morally shady reasons from the heads of the writers.

It's the world of being open and honest. Kojima wasn't, CDPR don't shy away from being honest some of the sex and nudity is simply there for gratification. That can be critiqued like any placement of content in a narrative, but it doesn't make the creators sexists if it's coming from humane people. It just means like in real life sex can be everywhere. I don't masturbate at times for a profound reason, nor were some of the random sexual experiences with my last GF (single just now... :'(). Games don't need to throw in rather mundane or pointless acts from real life, but at the same time it doesn't cause much harm when they do. Most people these days want realistic graphics and games to try and approach movie/tv quality writing ~ It's hard to find any adult TV/Movie content without some sort of sex these days, because sex happens every day everywhere.

I'm glad most are civilized at conventions, but yeah some aren't. It's about stepping up and reporting them when you see it.

I've been to large public parties (Goth, Cybergoth) where women literally dress up like in the photo that we are discussing here or even in more revealing ways. One of my ex girlfriends, for instance, enjoyed that immensely and put a lot of effort into her costumes I'd find it pretty condescending to imply that these women are not doing this out of their own free will and not simply because they enjoy it. Some people seem to assume that only men enjoy sexualized outfits and content or that women who participate are victims of systemic circumstances. That is simply incorrect.

This. It is simply a matter of fact some people enjoy sexually provocative dress code/cosplay. There is absolutely nothing wrong with it at all. It can garner more looks, which the cosplayer will probably expect, but they will also expect respect still to be in play and no not for people to stare unreasonably, or jeer or attempt to touch. That is out of order and harassment.

 

[udivision]

CDProjekt RED, company of 370 employees, a lot from around the world, many women (brilliant and talented) but also minorities: gay, transsexual (we might have been one of the few companies who had transsexual lead), all treated equally with only respect and support.

But we`re called sexist for showing a boob or panties. Really?

We always aimed to tell stories about people. And there are people with boobs and people with panties. Sometimes both.





***this is my personal opinion and not of my employer***

Most companies today can claim to be diverse and inclusive... because for the most part they are. That doesn't have much to do with how your output is interpreted. At worst, it may be viewed as a deflection.

 

[Lasthope106]

Completely disagree, and even if it were true that they are be sexist, their female characters are some of the most complex, and well written in all of gaming past and present.

 

[Flipyap]

Because he was exotic and because Yennefer made him her territory, Witches don't really care for looks that much. Pretty sure it comes up quite often that he's ugly, narration and self introspective.

I dunno. The part about Yennefer certainly plays a large part in this, but the women do describe him as "attractive," especially compared to the "smug wimps" they usually deal with.
He seemed like he could have had an ugly mug in the short stories, but I feel like his descriptions changed somewhat in the novels.

 

[BennyBlanco]

Who?????

 

[Tye The Czar]

So because a woman feels sexy and empowered its sexist cause she takes her clothes off?

Wait, how is a camera staring at a woman's ass empowering again?

Let's stop beating around the fucking bush. Fanservice and scantily clad outfits on women are primarily made, consciously or unconsciously, for titillation in straight male audiences.

I won't say that I hate fanservice and specialization. But I won't deny the creator's intention is anything more than base.

 

[Audioboxer]

Wait, how is a camera staring at a woman's ass empowering again?

Let's stop beating around the fucking bush. Fanservice and scantily clad outfits on women are primarily made, consciously or unconsciously, for titillation in straight male audiences.

I won't say that I hate fanservice and specialization. But I won't deny the creator's intention is anything more than base.

It certainly can be and a lot of the time it is. This is where CDPR seem honest about it, no Kojima like nonsense to try and explain it. Sex sells, people enjoy sex.

But to be honest completely, even if a small percentage, some women do enjoy titillation as well. People have their vices regardless of gender or what stereotypes are usually valid. Sex can be and is just as pleasurable for women. Heck I follow a girl gamer on twitter who seems to be worse than most of the crazed anime guys with busty statues and what not.

I also find Nathan Drake to be a hotty, and I'm a straight guy. Heh. Not to mention I always end up making my male protagonists look eye pleasing in games. Struggle to do that Dark Souls funky face playthrough *spends 2 hours in character creation*.

Liking something eye pleasing or making an avatar eye pleasing for YOU in YOUR personal playthrough of something doesn't make you a bad person. Nor does enjoying straight up sex for sex reasons scenes. It's all about the personality behind who is enjoying, and first and foremost who wrote the content.

 

[mckmas8808]

Having not played games from either company, what's to gain from The Chinese Company starting drama like this? They don't seem to be trying to make any kind of dialogue, it's literally just shots fired. Comes off as really immature on their part.

This is the question of the day.

 

[frontovik]

A blunt but unprofessional PR move.

 

[Dance Inferno]

You don't seem to understand what's happening.

A woman with an addiction to cybernetic implants went clubbing.

The thing about cyborgs in the Cyberpunk universe is that people who do a lot of mods eventually go crazy and kill people. It's a stat in the tabletop game's mechanics iirc. Forgetting the official term for it, but that's what she is. She is a person who took body modification too far. She was out clubbing (hence the mention that she killed a bunch of people in a nightclub in the trailer).

Psycho Squad recruited her rather than killed her. The description of the trailer is "how Psycho Squad might find a new recruit" or something, iirc.

So you have a woman who's dressed up to go clubbing, not "a killing machine."

Why did they choose to represent her clubbing in a skimpy outfit? Why wasn't she wearing a suit at work? Or in her pajamas at home? Or wearing jeans and a t-shirt at the pier?

I'm sure there's a "reasonable" explanation like you just listed, but that's no more "reasonable" than Quiet being buck naked because "HAY GUISE SHE BREATHZ THRU HER SKIN OK? IT'S CANON!"

Dollars to donuts if they chose a man instead of a woman for that trailer he wouldn't be half naked.

 

[Cabbagehead]

I agree. But sexist/racist/etc. actions do not have to be motivated by deep-seated prejudice. They can also represent unthinking, implicit endorsements of predjudical ideas. For example, reproducing common female tropes in video games without considering their current cultural meaning.

So they should be aware of the cultural meanings of the real world, at the detriment of presenting the characteristics and ideals of a fictional world that's following the foundation of the genre itself?. Which is heavily established in the decay of society and the downfall of humanity in some way or other. The Cyberpunk pen & paper games is the exploration of civilization at its most chaotic and the addiction to cybernetic's, mods, brain dance and futurism is at its core.


Which fits the narrative perfectly. The setting has to be right to rely the story for better or worse in all its attributes. So they can set the stage to apply the dressing and move into the meat of the story. Which is far greater then the scene in that trailer. Tropes are not bad, insensitive at times but within the context the're usually fine. As you know already, now rather or not it reflects the real world or the genre and the fictional world alone is debatable.


Cyberpunk world's are never happy places and depict what they depict best in the right hands. These places are not big on equality but nepotism.

 

[Audioboxer]

Why did they choose to represent her clubbing in a skimpy outfit? Why wasn't she wearing a suit at work? Or in her pajamas at home? Or wearing jeans and a t-shirt at the pier?

I'm sure there's a "reasonable" explanation like you just listed, but that's no more "reasonable" than Quiet being buck naked because "HAY GUISE SHE BREATHZ THRU HER SKIN OK? IT'S CANON!"

Dollars to donuts if they chose a man instead of a woman for that trailer he wouldn't be half naked.

The difference between CDPR and Kojima here though is for the most part they are abrasively honest and always have been stretching back to the first Witcher. They have sex in their games because they want to have it and don't do mental gymnastics to justify it. A dev has come in here to clear the air with the studios employment, but you can kind of understand that as I'm sure personally they feel a little hurt at some of the comments.

 

[Dance Inferno]

Exactly how many of the female characters were made by male versus females in their studio? What gender is the artists who outlined this to begin with?

Also, exactly how many of the male characters were made by male versus females in their studio? What gender is the artists who outlined this to begin with?

I'm going off the stat that most employees in game development are male. I don't actually know the stats of CDPR, but I would wager they are mostly male as well.

Again, most of the characters fit with the set era they are in, time-wise.
Usually the "big" people we're large powerful males, and you do have some more amped up male characters with a nice appeal to them. Sex appeal is not 100% fact, its a person to person basis.

What "era"? This is not historical fiction; it's a fantasy land limited only by our imaginations. Look at the Game of Thrones books: seemingly a similar "era" in fantasy terms and the number of strong female rulers in that universe is staggering.

As an example; Olgierd looks like a handsome dude.

Yeah OK, one big character in Witcher 3 is a handsome dude. What percentage of big women characters in Witcher 3 are sexy ladies?

BTW I just want to point out - Witcher 3 was my GOTY last year. I love it to bits. I've put in over 150 hours into this game and am waiting for Blood & Wine. But let's not kid ourselves; the game's portrayal of women could use some work.

 

[Stiler]

So a CGI trailer showing a fully clothed woman is sexist according to them, even though they completely ignore the context of said trailer (the woman has lost her mind).

Yet they have no problem putting nude women in their games: (NSFW I guess, it's a nude woman in a painting)
https://youtu.be/UCrI5fYnZeU?t=49s


The current political correctness of society is getting really really out of hand because people automatically assume everything is sexist without context or setting.

This woman for instance, if you watch the trailer, she's had a ton of implants, which have left her with cyberpsychosis, which basically is when you have too many implants and your mind fragments and you start to go crazy. She's broken and as you can see in the CGI trailer pretty much her entire body is an implant as well as her arm blades.

The woman is then shown, fully clothed, as a Max Tac agent. She's now on the other side, fighting and hunting people that were once like her and went crazy.

Where's the sexism in this? Because to me the sexism would have been making her a "Victim" or having her use her body for something, they did none of that and brought her full circle, empowering her and making her come back from what she did.

 

[Audioboxer]

I'm going off the stat that most employees in game development are male. I don't actually know the stats of CDPR, but I would wager they are mostly male as well.



What "era"? This is not historical fiction; it's a fantasy land limited only by our imaginations. Look at the Game of Thrones books: seemingly a similar "era" in fantasy terms and the number of strong female rulers in that universe is staggering.



Yeah OK, one big character in Witcher 3 is a handsome dude. What percentage of big women characters in Witcher 3 are sexy ladies?

BTW I just want to point out - Witcher 3 was my GOTY last year. I love it to bits. I've put in over 150 hours into this game and am waiting for Blood & Wine. But let's not kid ourselves; the game's portrayal of women could use some work.

Well we all know The Barrons wife was a hottie <3 Heh. Still I know what you're getting at and I'm sure CDPR will always read feedback and take it on board. They are remember creating a game written from the books, and it's best to create the main characters in line with what the author wrote (as not to get burned on not being "faithful" to the novels).

 

[Acidote]

This argument is no different than "racism ended when Obama became president".

Well, the most powerful characters in that universe after Ciri are all the sorcerers and the more important of them for the story are sorceresses (and a few elven

Spoiler

from another dimension

individuals.

 

[Nestunt]

Cmon! Triss, Yen and Ciri are probably three of the most interesting and strong Female characters in gaming and are all in the same game

 

[Lord of Ostia]

Look at those twitter replies, jesus, all the lamergators showing up at once

And yeah, I also find CDP games kind of sexist. It's also the main reason why my girlfriend won't play The Witcher, although she really likes the genre.

That's a real shame, have you ever actually played the witcher 2 or 3, or read any of sapkowski's novels? The world in which the witcher is set is sexist, yes, but his work is not sexist. It is using a fantasy world to comment on real world sexism, racism, and 'othering', just like a lot of fantasy works have done in the past. It isn't a fluff pulp-fantasy swords and bikini armor series, even if it might appear that way to some at first glance. My girlfriend is the most staunch feminist around, and she loves the series more than I do, she actually got me into it. So don't be too hasty to judge, you both might be missing out on a wonderful experience. At least give the first novel, The Last Wish, a shot.

 

[Mivey]

Having not played games from either company, what's to gain from The Chinese Company starting drama like this? They don't seem to be trying to make any kind of dialogue, it's literally just shots fired. Comes off as really immature on their part.

It's almost as if it is a one of thought, that someone posted on their phone after seeing little more than the header image of the article.
Everyone knows you should only use twitter to share deep and complex philosophical sentence. These chinese companies are the worst.

 

[Audioboxer]

That's a real shame, have you ever actually played the witcher 2 or 3, or read any of sapkowski's novels? The world in which the witcher is set is sexist, yes, but his work is not sexist. It is using a fantasy world to comment on real world sexism, racism, and 'othering', just like a lot of fantasy works have done in the past. It isn't a fluff pulp-fantasy swords and bikini armor series, even if it might appear that way to some at first glance. My girlfriend is the most staunch feminist around, and she loves the series more than I do, she actually got me into it. So don't be too hasty to judge, you both might be missing out on a wonderful experience. At least give the first novel, The Last Wish, a shot.

The books are a great read. I only read them recently after the game. For some titillation in text can be more bearable than on-screen. And there is nothing wrong with that.

 

[thumb]

So they should be aware of the cultural meanings of the real world, at the detriment of presenting the characteristics and ideals of a fictional world that put in the context of the genre itself?. Which is heavily established in the decay of society and the downfall of humanity in some way or other. The Cyberpunk pen & paper games is the exploration of civilization at its most chaotic and the addiction to cybernetic and futurism.

None of that specifically *requires* the exact scene they chose. Of course, from an artistic perspective, they can do whatever they want. But it all depends on whether they want to highlight tropes that are often interpreted as sexist and male oriented. If they're cool with that, they should go ahead. If they're not--if they want to convey something else--they should think about ways to show traditional cyberpunk themes in a more nuanced manner. They're smart and competent artists, I have no doubt they can do so.

With that said, I want to emphasize again that I'm not saying they should *have to* or some such nonsense. I'm just saying they should be conscious of how their art will be interpreted, and ask themselves what predominant interpretations they would like to create.

 

[Fantastapotamus]

Why did they choose to represent her clubbing in a skimpy outfit? Why wasn't she wearing a suit at work? Or in her pajamas at home? Or wearing jeans and a t-shirt at the pier?

I'm sure there's a "reasonable" explanation like you just listed, but that's no more "reasonable" than Quiet being buck naked because "HAY GUISE SHE BREATHZ THRU HER SKIN OK? IT'S CANON!"

Dollars to donuts if they chose a man instead of a woman for that trailer he wouldn't be half naked.

Well, they chose that partcular pose because it is a rather iconic pose in the original manual of the tabletop game IIRC. Obviously they weren't forced to do that, I'm not trying to excuse it by saying this (partly because I don't think it needs to be excused). It's just a...thing to know, I guess?

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Well we all know The Barrons wife was a hottie <3 Heh. Still I know what you're getting at and I'm sure CDPR will always read feedback and take it on board. They are remember creating a game written from the books, and it's best to create the main characters in line with what the author wrote (as not to get burned on not being "faithful" to the novels).

They didn't though, Geralt is arguably ugly in the books (though may vary), Triss is scarred on the chest (possibly only emotionally once healed) after being burnt alive and stopped wearing clothing revealing cleavage, Ciri's scar was supposed to basically brand her,...

They took more than a few liberties with the characters that didn't make it particularly unfaithful though.

Spoiler

The Last Wish did imo