Support NeoGAF

[L95]

And this one showing they cover the boss monsters boobs with smoke during the cutscene, but not during the battle.

lol, I don't understand, that boss monster is

Spoiler

Aversa

and

Spoiler

she.

had a similar outfit in Awakening (and even boob juggle in her starting class).

I'm confused.

 

[kiryogi]

Yep.

The Project Zero 5 hobbubb about how changing the mc's lingerie outfit would have this massive negative impact on her chatacter arc turned out to be a bunch of nonsense as well.

This will be the exact same thing.

Edit: And her new outfit that replaced the, sort-of tasteless, bikini thing looks much better.

Well of course no one would notice a difference here at all, they rewrote the scenario!

Saying it's tasteless clearly says something about you, if you don't realize why it was there in the first place regardless of how it looks.

 

[Riposte]

For what it's worth, I am much more sympathetic towards the controversy regarding TLOU. I never bothered playing that game, but everything I know about tells me that game had cogent ideas about violence and society, and expressed it through the violence in game. Censorship there actively damages the message of the artist. When a lot of anime games get censored, no real message is lost. Unless boobs somehow constitute a message

It is foolish to see art as nothing more than vehicles (or tools) for messages. The "experience" of art is more fundamental than any message, which is ultimately something the audience creates through interpretation. This only becomes more and more true as you move away from non-fiction writing and towards spectacle (and then even more with interactivity). Any sort of imagery, whether tacky or erotic, is not necessarily about "getting a point across", but it's always an expression of aesthetics - likely of beauty and sexuality, in this case. The appeal of anime-themed games, and the appeal of foreign, especially Japanese, games, is definitely linked to their unique aesthetic; changing that without good reason while carrying it over is going to draw criticism for this obvious reason.

If you can't stand seeing people bothered by the removal of content (e.g., censorship), you can just not read this thread which is entirely about it. You come off as completely ridiculous and insincere trying to beat up people with implied stories of victimhood in an oppressive regime. If you want to see free speech in oppressive regimes discussed, you will likely find it in threads about oppressive regimes.

What Palculator is saying is fairly on the mark, I've tried to say as much before. Calling it localization, for example, does not resolve the matter in the slightest. Localization can and has included censorship on moral principals, but there's no reason for someone to accept that it is the exact same as any other change. The little game of taking away words in hope the intent and meaning will crumble without them is not productive to worthwhile discussion. Moreover, it wasn't played until videogame forumites, not outsider zealots, found themselves on side that is very sympathetic to censorship to the point they will aggressively argue about it.

 

[bomblord1]

It is foolish to see art as nothing more than vehicles (or tools) for messages. The "experience" of art is more fundamental than any message, which is ultimately something the audience creates through interpretation. This only becomes more and more true as you move away from non-fiction writing and towards spectacle (and then even more with interactivity). Any sort of imagery, whether tacky or erotic, is not necessarily about "getting a point across", but it's always an expression of aesthetics - likely of beauty and sexuality, in this case. The appeal of anime-themed games, and the appeal of foreign, especially Japanese, games, is definitely linked to their unique aesthetic; changing that without good reason while carrying it over is going to draw criticism for this obvious reason.

If you can't stand seeing people bothered by the removal of content (e.g., censorship), you can just not read this thread which is entirely about it. You come off as completely ridiculous and insincere trying to beat up people with implied stories of victimhood in an oppressive regime. If you want to see free speech in oppressive regimes discussed, you will likely find it in threads about oppressive regimes.

What Palculator is saying is fairly on the mark, I've tried to say as much before. Calling it localization, for example, does not resolve the matter in the slightest. Localization can and has included censorship on moral principals, but there's no reason for someone to accept that it is the exact same as any other change. The little game of taking away words in hope the intent and meaning will crumble without them is not productive to worthwhile discussion. Moreover, it wasn't played until videogame forumites, not outsider zealots, found themselves on side that is very sympathetic to censorship to the point they will aggressively argue about it.

This is all I can think of based on what you were quoting

 

[Yasumi]

It's the weird small things that they edit. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_y1RVMplNAc

Like right here.

Why change her from laying on the couch to sitting on it? It's so inconsequential. Is it because she looked more vulnerable laying down? Like, why?

The redubbed line reading sounds kind of bad too. In the original, he sounds exasperated, shocked. In the redub, he sounds like an infomercial salesman or something.

So much effort for something so dumb.

 

[Eila]

Of course. But censorship isn't the only issue effecting video games. It's hardly even a particularly important issue in an industry still grappling with terrible pay, poor work/life balance, the seemingly unsustainable costs of AAA development and the widespread mysoginy and racism, both within the industry and amidst the fanbase. Combine that with how niche games like DOA Extreme are, and it's clear that the amount of controversy is disproportionate.

THERE ARE STARVING KIDS IN AFRICA
This is a thread about the western localization changes of #FE. Not sure why so many come in to derail about how localization is not censorship, or how there's other issues in the industry. Why not make a separate thread?

 

[dakkumauji]

It's the weird small things that they edit. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_y1RVMplNAc

Like right here.

Why change her from laying on the couch to sitting on it? It's so inconsequential. Is it because she looked more vulnerable laying down? Like, why?

The redubbed line reading sounds kind of bad too. In the original, he sounds exasperated, shocked. In the redub, he sounds like an infomercial salesman or something.

So much effort for something so dumb.

hell it looks like they just removed the girl on the couch completely lol

and i'm not following up on the plot or the reason of it, but just based off those two pictures shows to me two different scenarios are happening

 

[Jotamide]

All these changes are hilarious. Putting all this effort to not even show the game at E3, Nintendo gonna Nintendo.

 

[Olengie]

Y u do this to me Nintendo.

 

[ShinNatsume]

Im canceling my order until we the know the full extent of these changes.

Im fine with some minor cuts that make somehow sense but i wont buy a nintedo surprise package like this.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

It's the weird small things that they edit. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_y1RVMplNAc

Like right here.

Why change her from laying on the couch to sitting on it? It's so inconsequential. Is it because she looked more vulnerable laying down? Like, why?

The redubbed line reading sounds kind of bad too. In the original, he sounds exasperated, shocked. In the redub, he sounds like an infomercial salesman or something.

So much effort for something so dumb.

Oh come on. That just seems like nonsense; I cannot fathom why that pose would matter in the least. Really, really weird stuff going on with this game.

 

[Pancake Mix]

Cia from Hyrule Warriors got through with zoom in included...in a Zelda game, that pushed more than 1 million copies. Even the 3DS version that came out a little over a month ago wasn't changed.

That was Iwata-era Nintendo.

This is absolutely stupid changes era Nintendo, in which they censor minute things which would never have changed the rating and that they wouldn't have starting in the late 1990's. They think that they're localizing the game when really they're just wasting money and pissing off fans.

With re-dubbed lines, I wonder how much of this may have been changed during development itself?

Yeah, given the Kiria change making its way even into the Japanese version, as well as the quick and quiet change of a preorder face towel bonus, I think you might be on to something.

 

[Zolo]

Oh come on. That just seems like nonsense; I cannot fathom why that pose would matter in the least. Really, really weird stuff going on with this game.

With re-dubbed lines, I wonder how much of this may have been changed during development itself?

 

[-shadow-]

It's the weird small things that they edit. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_y1RVMplNAc

Like right here.

I actually prefer the new outfit over the bikini. Not entirely sure why. I'm not for the change, but I don't really mind it either.

But having that woman sitting instead of laying down however. I'm not sure if anythinf I for a minute thought aomethinf was going on there. Wow was that edit for the worst...

 

[Nyoro SF]

With re-dubbed lines, I wonder how much of this may have been changed during development itself?

That's one of the few feasible situations given how much it costs to record new lines. I find it superbly bizarre that there would be essentially 2 versions of the game in development though.

It's very sad that so much effort was dedicated to such meaningless censorship.

 

[Pancake Mix]

That's one of the few feasible situations given how much it costs to record new lines. I find it superbly bizarre that there would be essentially 2 versions of the game in development though.

It's very sad that so much effort was dedicated to such meaningless censorship.

Especially after Nintendo spent all that money giving Atlus a budget too for their first HD JRPG ever.

The cost of making all these changes...while I will probably still love the game myself, I don't think western sales will justify the effort put in. So weird.

I think Zolo might have figured it out. Cuts were likely made during development given the extra voice work, but only Kiria's outfit and a preorder face towel was changed in Japan.

 

[Bumbletron]

I'm not really bothered by the changes. They seem minute enough that I can't see it affecting my experience with the game.

 

[-Horizon-]

The cost of making all these changes...while I will probably still love the game myself, I don't think western sales will justify the effort put in. So weird.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

The cost of making all these changes...while I will probably still love the game myself, I don't think western sales will justify the effort put in. So weird.

And even if this is a case about preserving Fire Emblem's virtuous public image or whatever, #FE definitely won't attract enough eyes for Fire Emblem's image as a whole to be even slightly affected by it.

 

[bobbychalkers]

The cost of making all these changes...while I will probably still love the game myself, I don't think western sales will justify the effort put in. So weird.

Pretty much where I stand, I totally understand the logic behind the XCX and the Fatal Frame V changes...and it had no effect on me buying those games but I'm just baffled on why they put so many resources behind some of the extensive changes in this considering that they're just going to dump it out mid-Summer with little to no press and no showing at E3.

 

[TheRook]

The more changes I seen in this game, the more I believe that Treehouse is doing this to be spiteful...I don't think there is any other explanation for this level of petty changes.

 

[Eolz]

Those new changes seem like a quite a waste of money.
Wonder how and why they greenlighted spending money for so ridiculously uninteresting changes...

 

[rhandino]

The cost of making all these changes...while I will probably still love the game myself, I don't think western sales will justify the effort put in. So weird.

You are working on the assumption that the changes were not budgeted during development (which they most likely did considering some of the minor changes like Kiria costume change and edited MV for Reincarnation showed) and even then it's not like make some costumes changes and adittional lines of dialog is going to broke the bank

Spoiler

more than the overall game already did in Japan

.

And there is also the fact that they are saving a good deal of coins with the "no dub" thing.

 

[Battlechili]

I sometimes wonder if Nintendo of America really wants to localize these sorts of games. Some changes seem really weird. I intend to write emails to NoA and Atlus USA about this, but if the responses are anything like the norm, not really anything will come of it. Still worth a shot though.

It is foolish to see art as nothing more than vehicles (or tools) for messages. The "experience" of art is more fundamental than any message, which is ultimately something the audience creates through interpretation. This only becomes more and more true as you move away from non-fiction writing and towards spectacle (and then even more with interactivity). Any sort of imagery, whether tacky or erotic, is not necessarily about "getting a point across", but it's always an expression of aesthetics - likely of beauty and sexuality, in this case. The appeal of anime-themed games, and the appeal of foreign, especially Japanese, games, is definitely linked to their unique aesthetic; changing that without good reason while carrying it over is going to draw criticism for this obvious reason.

What Palculator is saying is fairly on the mark, I've tried to say as much before. Calling it localization, for example, does not resolve the matter in the slightest. Localization can and has included censorship on moral principals, but there's no reason for someone to accept that it is the exact same as any other change. The little game of taking away words in hope the intent and meaning will crumble without them is not productive to worthwhile discussion. Moreover, it wasn't played until videogame forumites, not outsider zealots, found themselves on side that is very sympathetic to censorship to the point they will aggressively argue about it.

It always makes me happy to see someone who appreciates the artistic integrity of works. You're pretty cool Riposte.

I really hate it when works get edited in localization or have cut content; it feels as if its wattering down the original work, however small the changes may be. Ideally I'd love to see these sorts of games brought over without these sorts of edits.

 

[Nyoro SF]

And there is also the fact that they are saving a good deal of coins with the "no dub" thing.

That is a good point, not doing a dub frees up quite the margin, given that a dub is by far the most expensive cost of a localization. You don't have to worry about costs of performing changes to the game after that.

 

[Wowfunhappy]

Looking through this thread, I actually appreciate a lot of these costume changes. Some of the older ones just feel kind of leering.

It makes zero difference in terms of my purchasing decision—I was going to get this game anyway—but, well, I'm glad the modifications are happening.

(Arbitrary age changes, on the other hand, are universally dumb)

 

[Greddleok]

The more changes I seen in this game, the more I believe that Treehouse is doing this to be spiteful...I don't think there is any other explanation for this level of petty changes.

Yeah...They're deliberately trying to annoy fans so the game doesn't sell. Nintendo really doesn't need any game to sell right now.

 

[Zolo]

What games does Nintendo have coming up anyway? If so, you think they'd want to put more effort into this if they don't really have any.

 

[Maneauleau]

It's the weird small things that they edit. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_y1RVMplNAc

Like right here.

Why change her from laying on the couch to sitting on it? It's so inconsequential. Is it because she looked more vulnerable laying down? Like, why?

The redubbed line reading sounds kind of bad too. In the original, he sounds exasperated, shocked. In the redub, he sounds like an infomercial salesman or something.

So much effort for something so dumb.

It looks more "weird" to me with her sitting and we don't see her behind the guy...

 

[Nyoro SF]

Yeah...They're deliberately trying to annoy fans so the game doesn't sell. Nintendo really doesn't need any game to sell right now.

Censoring games doesn't cause any meaningful sales drop.

What games does Nintendo have coming up anyway? If so, you think they'd want to put more effort into this if they don't really have any.

Their Wii U output has come to an almost full stop but regarding the 3DS I don't know.

It is also possible that they just don't have titles to focus their efforts on at the moment so they have time to forcibly direct Atlus instead!

 

[Dali]

Taking the cheesecake out of the cheesecake. Pre order cancelled.

 

[-Horizon-]

You are working on the assumption that the changes were not budgeted during development (which they most likely did considering some of the minor changes like Kiria costume change and edited MV for Reincarnation showed) and even then it's not like make some costumes changes and adittional lines of dialog is going to broke the bank

Spoiler

more than the overall game already did in Japan

.

And there is also the fact that they are saving a good deal of coins with the "no dub" thing.

Its not gonna change the fact that this game is clearly being sold to a specific audience and no amount of changing it isn't gonna suddenly gonna cause it to become the next Awakening. If anything, its gonna turn off some of the people who was part of the original audience. The subject matter is as niche as it gets already.

 

[kunonabi]

It looks more "weird" to me with her sitting and we don't see her behind the guy...

Yeah, the censored version actually looks way worse and the other new changes are even more terrible. This whole release is just such a dumpster fire at this point.

 

[muteki]

I have to wonder if the inconsistencies in edits is more of a "just wait, we haven't gotten that far yet!" and everything will be consistent for the final version.

But the more and more trivial they get is getting more and more hilarious. They are just screwing with us now.

 

[rhandino]

What games does Nintendo have coming up anyway? If so, you think they'd want to put more effort into this if they don't really have any.

Their 3DS line is very diverse with games like Kirby: Planet Robobot, the Dragon Quest games and a new generation of Pokemon.

Poor the WiiU though =/ (at least I have DLC for Hyrule Warriors to look forward)

 

[dakkumauji]

Yeah, the censored version actually looks way worse and the other new changes are even more terrible. This whole release is just such a dumpster fire at this point.

pretty similar to the whole curtain incident in Fire Emblem Awakening
made it more suggestive than what it actually was

so good job again nintendo!

 

[Palculator]

It is foolish to see art as nothing more than vehicles (or tools) for messages. The "experience" of art is more fundamental than any message, which is ultimately something the audience creates through interpretation. This only becomes more and more true as you move away from non-fiction writing and towards spectacle (and then even more with interactivity). Any sort of imagery, whether tacky or erotic, is not necessarily about "getting a point across", but it's always an expression of aesthetics - likely of beauty and sexuality, in this case. The appeal of anime-themed games, and the appeal of foreign, especially Japanese, games, is definitely linked to their unique aesthetic; changing that without good reason while carrying it over is going to draw criticism for this obvious reason.

If you can't stand seeing people bothered by the removal of content (e.g., censorship), you can just not read this thread which is entirely about it. You come off as completely ridiculous and insincere trying to beat up people with implied stories of victimhood in an oppressive regime. If you want to see free speech in oppressive regimes discussed, you will likely find it in threads about oppressive regimes.

What Palculator is saying is fairly on the mark, I've tried to say as much before. Calling it localization, for example, does not resolve the matter in the slightest. Localization can and has included censorship on moral principals, but there's no reason for someone to accept that it is the exact same as any other change. The little game of taking away words in hope the intent and meaning will crumble without them is not productive to worthwhile discussion. Moreover, it wasn't played until videogame forumites, not outsider zealots, found themselves on side that is very sympathetic to censorship to the point they will aggressively argue about it.

Excellent post.

 

[StereoVsn]

English dub would have gotten them by far more sales then any of these minute (and some fairly dumb) changes they are doing. From business perspective it's hard to figure out what prompted the whole thing.

 

[MrSaturn99]

It's the weird small things that they edit. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_y1RVMplNAc

Like right here.

Why change her from laying on the couch to sitting on it? It's so inconsequential. Is it because she looked more vulnerable laying down? Like, why?

The redubbed line reading sounds kind of bad too. In the original, he sounds exasperated, shocked. In the redub, he sounds like an infomercial salesman or something.

So much effort for something so dumb.

Personally, I'm more shocked that the word "half-assed" is in a Nintendo game.

The more changes I seen in this game, the more I believe that Treehouse is doing this to be spiteful...I don't think there is any other explanation for this level of petty changes.

"Spiteful"? Really?

 

[Azuran]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=446732

And:


Heh:



Like I said, though: no real waves made.

I'm not too outraged. Or, I'm not at all, actually. This is a relatively niche game for a dying (or dead) system in already tough times for the industry. I don't want to condone or advocate this practice, but I'm not running with my pitchfork to Nintendo's headquarters anytime soon. Nintendo has done wonderful things to keep niche alive in the US.

Plus, Fire Emblem Fates may be my GOTY. Plus plus, swimsuits are pretty much always just disposable bullshit. The only game that I can think of that was truly MADE, or brought to the next level by the swimsuits is Dead or Alive Xtreme 3.

 

[LordGorchnik]

It is foolish to see art as nothing more than vehicles (or tools) for messages. The "experience" of art is more fundamental than any message, which is ultimately something the audience creates through interpretation. This only becomes more and more true as you move away from non-fiction writing and towards spectacle (and then even more with interactivity). Any sort of imagery, whether tacky or erotic, is not necessarily about "getting a point across", but it's always an expression of aesthetics - likely of beauty and sexuality, in this case. The appeal of anime-themed games, and the appeal of foreign, especially Japanese, games, is definitely linked to their unique aesthetic; changing that without good reason while carrying it over is going to draw criticism for this obvious reason.

If you can't stand seeing people bothered by the removal of content (e.g., censorship), you can just not read this thread which is entirely about it. You come off as completely ridiculous and insincere trying to beat up people with implied stories of victimhood in an oppressive regime. If you want to see free speech in oppressive regimes discussed, you will likely find it in threads about oppressive regimes.

What Palculator is saying is fairly on the mark, I've tried to say as much before. Calling it localization, for example, does not resolve the matter in the slightest. Localization can and has included censorship on moral principals, but there's no reason for someone to accept that it is the exact same as any other change. The little game of taking away words in hope the intent and meaning will crumble without them is not productive to worthwhile discussion. Moreover, it wasn't played until videogame forumites, not outsider zealots, found themselves on side that is very sympathetic to censorship to the point they will aggressively argue about it.

Damn well said. I wish this is what I could spit out when I am giving speeches about silly little arbitrary changes in works of art.

 

[Ridley327]

Personally, I'm more shocked that the word "half-assed" is in a Nintendo game.

Xenoblade X has a pretty fair amount of mid-level swearing, and they even have a fun running joke about a particular character's mislabeling of the word "asshole."

 

[Wowfunhappy]

I was under the impression that the lack of an english dub was less about budget (although of course that plays a role) and more about not being able to find good voice actors who could also sing the Japanese songs (which would be difficult to rewrite).

 

[-Horizon-]

I'm not too outraged. Or, I'm not at all, actually. This is a relatively niche game for a dying (or dead) system in already tough times for the industry. I don't want to condone or advocate this practice, but I'm not running with my pitchfork to Nintendo's headquarters anytime soon. Nintendo has done wonderful things to keep niche alive in the US.

Plus, Fire Emblem Fates may be my GOTY. Plus plus, swimsuits are pretty much always just disposable bullshit. The only game that I can think of that was truly MADE, or brought to the next level by the swimsuits is Dead or Alive Xtreme 3.

I'm not outraged as much as I am sitting here scratching my head wondering why.

 

[MrSaturn99]

Xenoblade X has a pretty fair amount of mid-level swearing, and they even have a fun running joke about a particular character's mislabeling of the word "asshole."

Really? Wow.

Just makes this whole thing more bizarre.

 

[Ridley327]

I was under the impression that the lack of an english dub was less about budget (although of course that plays a role) and more about not being able to find good voice actors who could also sing the Japanese songs (which would be difficult to rewrite).

I would think both go hand in hand. I don't think there are too many cheap VAs out there that also sing well for what the game calls for.

 

[rhandino]

Its not gonna change the fact that this game is clearly being sold to a specific audience and no amount of changing it isn't gonna suddenly gonna cause it to become the next Awakening. If anything, its gonna turn off some of the people who was part of the original audience. The subject matter is as niche as it gets already.

I don't think they are expecting to have another FE: Awakening in their hands but they seem to be very concerned about the context of some of the scenes and costumes and most likely they thought that the message they are trying to convey will not go that well/will be more shocking than intended to western audiences than to japanese ones.

I don't think that is a bad thing at all and in fact I do hope that more companies try to reflect about how some thing will be perceived in the western market so they can avoid having the next Erica (Catherine) or "trap" situation (Akiba's Trip) in their hands which may feel quirky and harmless fun to japanese audiences but they are incredible questionable for the west.

 

[Zolo]

Ironically enough, I wonder if it would have been more successful had Persona 5 came out first. Depending on how well Persona 5 does, they could have marketed it as 'From the Makers of Persona 5.'

 

[L95]

Personally, I'm more shocked that the word "half-assed" is in a Nintendo game.

I'm still mildly surprised both English released GBA Fire Emblems got away with using hell in 2003 (Fire Emblem: no English subtitle, used in dialogue) and 05 (FE: The Sacred Stones, used in a weapon name)

 

[Draxal]

I'm still mildly surprised both English released GBA Fire Emblems got away with using hell in 2003 (Fire Emblem: no English subtitle, used in dialogue) and 05 (FE: The Sacred Stones, used in a weapon name)

I'm more surprised that they added Lyn's boob jiggle for the American release. It was just odd.