Support NeoGAF

[Mooreberg]

Have you ever had a game where they shoot American soldiers? Every other nations gets killed by them, it's definitely pandering to the American love for their military.

Is "they" supposed to be the player? Every multiplayer shooter that is not sci-fi has players shooting Americans. MW2 had an entire segment of the campaign where you are tearing through American special forces units. Obviously, the majaority of enemies you gun down in historical shooters are German. In modern games, it is either Chinese or Russian soldiers, or mysteriously secular Arab nationalists. I am not seeing where American soldiers get less chaos directed towards them in these games than the close American allies do.

I cannot remember a thread that burst into so many different arguments, so quickly.

 

[Razgriz-Specter]

Have you ever had a game where they shoot American soldiers? Every other nations gets killed by them, it's definitely pandering to the American love for their military.

Metal Gear
Modern Warfare 2 - American General was the big bad, leading to you killing him and his unit of Americans

and Black Ops 1 had you as a WW2 era Russian killing British SAS.

 

[-Amon-]

Considering that WW1 was more an European war, and American effort in it was much less important than the other mayor players, Dice could have gone with an even less conventional approach, like not having an American soldier on the box.

 

[Switch Back 9]

No problem with Harlem Hellfighters being on the cover, but it would be cool to have country specific covers too as special editions or something. To the UK, Australia, NZ, Canada, France etc. who were in it from the start, WWI has a huge place in the 'national psyche'. Every one of these countries has a unique 'fighting man' legend associated with the great war, there's a lot of cool content they could make around this. Not to diminish their contribution - 2 million Americans fought in the war, but the US only formally entered the actual fighting in 1918, so to audiences outside of the US, America is not really associated with WWI.

Fixed that for you.

 

[leatherhat]

I
They are as french as any other french solider (outside of the skin color). If having a french solider on the cover is a problem, yeah i guess its a problem.

Are you serious here? They're American, from America. How many mental hoops do you have to jump through for them to end up French?

Second, Russians didn't fight in the pacific theater, so it is a poor analogy.

They absolutely did.

I really hope this thread gets shut down. It's been a absolutely disgraced. Everyone was in it no matter the country. Trying to argue who matters more and who deserves it more is a real shame.

Not its not. So many nations and people fought and died in brutal conditions for years, America was not "in" until the very end. If they put smaller countries that fought on the cover it would be great. Somebody floated the idea of covers for each nation- also a great idea. Putting an American on the cover is blatant pandering to the largest sales base.

Coming next Battlefield:Napoleon - featuring the impressed American sailor.

 

[nOoblet16]

Why are we making this a big deal by talking about it?

The very fact that we can't even have a non white dude without a "debate" or developers making a statement is what the issue is.

 

[jakonovski]

The actual issue is Americans vs. others. It's clear that marketing believes that an American focus, even a tortured one, is required for good sales in the US. But is that actual fact?

 

[-Amon-]

Why are we making this a big deal by talking about it?

The very fact that we can't even have a non white dude without a "debate" or developers making a statement is what the issue is.

For me it's not a matter of race, but nationality related to the war the game is set in.

 

[Mivey]

I bet in game the Hellfighters will be fighting side by side with white Americans.

You know, this is a video game, so you could even have an army of Harlem Hellfighters go up against an army of female Beduin warriors, even though they were technically fighting on the same side.

 

[Rooster]

Hoping the 130,000 or so Sikh soldiers that fought in WW1 are included somewhere.

 

[jakonovski]

You know, this is a video game, so you could even have an army of Harlem Hellfighters go up against an army of female Beduin warriors, even though they were technically fighting on the same side.

Is this a "video games are for fun so the way they depict a subject matter is irrelevant" kind of argument? Because it's a bit unclear what you mean.

 

[Mass One]

Are you serious here? They're American, from America. How many mental hoops do you have to jump through for them to end up French?


They absolutely did.



Not its not. So many nations and people fought and died in brutal conditions for years, America was not "in" until the very end. If they put smaller countries that fought on the cover it would be great. Somebody floated the idea of covers for each nation- also a great idea. Putting an American on the cover is blatant pandering to the largest sales base.

Coming next Battlefield:Napoleon - featuring the impressed American sailor.

I disagree the premise of this thread is a disgrace.

When people move and live in other countries they don't become that nationality, no? I don't think its a stretch to say that fighting in another country uniform would make you said nationality. You can be born somewhere else but later become another nationality, it's not genetics. It's not a mental loop in the slightest. May I ask did you look into the history at all. It isn't a stretch some on them were there before America officially join the war.

 

[Tenki]

Honest question: who are those Harlem Hellfighters?

 

[Mivey]

Is this a "video games are for fun so the way they depict a subject matter is irrelevant" kind of argument? Because it's a bit unclear what you mean.

I am not arguing anything, I am pointing out what cool things you could see.

 

[MMaRsu]

Because we don't yet live in a world where you can "just" have a black person on the cover.

we cant?

 

[The_Lump]

I just wish it had been a black French troop on the cover instead. As an American I don't like an American being on the cover of a WWI game.

I'm not so fussed about the cover, but I'll be kinda bummed if the majority of the story is US-centric. Because the conflict of course was not US-centric at all (unless it's based solely on the last 6 months of course)

 

[Eumi]

Honestly, I'm pretty happy they are featuring them since this is literally the first time I've ever learnt about any African-American involvement in WW1. I mean I knew they were involved but I had no idea what it was like, so shining a spotlight on a group of people whose efforts might be less known seems like a cool thing to do. More interesting than generic white guy at least, that's for sure.

 

[leatherhat]

I disagree the premise of this thread is a disgrace.

When people move and live in other countries they don't become that nationality, no? I don't think its a stretch to say that fighting in another country uniform would make you said nationality. You can be born somewhere else but later become another nationality, it's not genetics. It's not a mental loop in the slightest. May I ask did you look into the history at all. It isn't a stretch some on them were there before America officially join the war.

They didn't move to France. Being assigned to French command doesn't make them French and not American, or do you also think British troops under Eisenhower in WW2 became American? French people fought in multiple countries uniforms in WW2, they didn't become members of that country.

 

[Mass One]

They didn't move to France. Being assigned to French command doesn't make them French and not American, or do you also think British troops under Eisenhower in WW2 became American? French people fought in multiple countries uniforms in WW2, they didn't become members of that country.

Did the British troops wear american uniforms? Stay in american barracks? Use American Armaments? You keep ignoring that to make a analogy. I'm not saying everyone was but you could pretend that the one on the cover is the case.

 

[leatherhat]

Did the British troops wear american uniforms? Stay in american barracks? You keep ignoring that to make a analogy. I'm not saying everyone was but you could pretend that the one on the cover is the case.

I stated in my post French troops wore many uniforms including American. They did not become American. Why you can't see how blatant a marketing angle this is I'll never know, but keep doing what you can to try and turn (Proud) American troops into Frenchman.

 

[jakonovski]

The cover dude has a Mauser so I think he's German.

edit: he also has a Bergmann, 100% German. Hitler's brother maybe.

 

[Jack The Nipper]

Seems like if anything it does all dice needs it to do, get people to talk about a cover when they otherwise wouldn't

 

[Mass One]

I stated in my post French troops wore many uniforms including American. They did not become American. Why you can't see how blatant a marketing angle this is I'll never know, but keep doing what you can to try and turn American troops into Frenchman.

Did they? A sizable chunk? But the WWI wasn't on American soil. Still not similar. Even now the French Foreign still exist to where if you serve you become a french citizen. Why can't you understand like I said not all not of them fit under the condition I stated but some and you could pretend for your own mental benefit that is the case.

What isn't a marketing dude. What could have been on the cover to were it isn't a marketing angle? This is why I said that the premise for this thread is a disgrace.

 

[Principate]

The cover dude has a Mauser so I think he's German.

edit: he also has a Bergmann, 100% German. Hitler's brother maybe.

I know this is a joke but Hitler wasn't German.

 

[TotalHorlicks]

No matter the race, a Yank on the front cover is just utterly wrong. I hate to imagine the slant of history taught in your schools.

 

[SwaggerMcDagger]

I don't think they have much choice, to be honest. Battlefield needs a level of fantasy, otherwise it becomes ARMA.

Regardless, battlefields core mechanics are too simplistic relative to ARMA for it to ever be ARMA.


Maybe I'm being ignorant here but is there actually a group of people online who are actually upset about the HH dlc?

 

[Quasar]

I'm not so fussed about the cover, but I'll be kinda bummed if the majority of the story is US-centric. Because the conflict of course was not US-centric at all (unless it's based solely on the last 6 months of course)

Yeah. I'll be much more upset if the game itself is like that than cover art.

 

[ClosingADoor]

No matter the race, a Yank on the front cover is just utterly wrong. I hate to imagine the slant of history taught in your schools.

America was part of the war. I don't see an issue. They entered late, but they were still there.

 

[jakonovski]

I'll just put it out there: an America centric WW1 game from an American publisher is masturbatory. Although since the dev is Swedish, the sexual analogies become more complicated.

 

[Angel_DvA]

The actual issue is Americans vs. others. It's clear that marketing believes that an American focus, even a tortured one, is required for good sales in the US. But is that actual fact?

it's definitely is, american aren't interested in medias where they aren't the heroes, it's well known.

 

[Technosteve]

I am only getting this game if Dan Carlin is the narrator.

 

[Robottiimu2000]

As I said in the other thread. I'm starting to feel awkward on using real people from wars as a form of entertainment. Wars are really really awful business, and even though play war is really fun, I'd prefer we'd keep those to apart...

I don't really care whether they be black, white, men, women or children... Those who had to suffer through war deserve our respect not to be turned in to puppets for our amusment..

 

[Shredderi]

Nevermind me. I'm just frustrated with the setting and design decisions DICE made with BF1. Im over WW1/2 early war setting. Was hoping for a future setting or something different and new. Just more of the same from 12 years ago or so. Ugh.

You're in luck then since the new CoD is going into that. It's awesome how this time we can have two different kinds of FPS war games instead of both treading the same ground.

 

[Prisoner KSC2-303]

I'll just put it out there: an America centric WW1 game from an American publisher is masturbatory. Although since the dev is Swedish, the sexual analogies become more complicated.

I think a Swedish Periscope might fit the analogy.

 

[Acinixys]

Although I do kinda agree with this. Movies like saving private ryan have a semi-similar problem with just showing the American side. Not that it lessens the sacrifices made, it's just smells a bit jingo-ie.
Though based on then campaign description it seems like you would be playing as different characters from seemingly European countries. Americans being DLC is pretty fine with me.

America single handedly started, fought in, won and ended WW1 by themselves

If you were taught anything else you were lied to

Wake up sheeple

 

[j0nnyboy]

It turns my stomach. Just flat out the most offensive game I've ever seen.

I can name family members that died in this conflict, wept at the pictures and accounts of the dead and maimed that experienced this hell, was taught all the horrors of it from primary school, through my whole life, it's only ever been a symbol of the folly of war, the worst, most black and shameful era of British and European history. I've been to the actual battlefields and mass graves across Europe, held the minutes silence without fail every rememberence day my entire life, for as long as I could understand the meaning of it.

There was no glory in this war. No thrilling action or daring do, no heroes and villains, this was mass murder, a scar on the history of our species, and every single person involved in it was a victim.

This trailer, the entire concept of this game, makes me feel physically sick, and just so fucking angry.

How fucking dare anyone make a game like this about the Harlem Hellfighters.

I don't know what's worse, the sick fucking emotionless, greedy cunts that would seriously exploit this horror of an industrialised massacre, or the ignorant, soulless bastards that will give them money and enjoy it.

Anyone involved in this, or seriously think of buying this, should be ashamed of themselves.

Yes. Unlike any other war that was just a jolly old time.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

That's mustard gas.


I just bought the Collector's Edition

So did I, fam.

 

[Machina]

It turns my stomach. Just flat out the most offensive game I've ever seen.

I can name family members that died in this conflict, wept at the pictures and accounts of the dead and maimed that experienced this hell, was taught all the horrors of it from primary school, through my whole life, it's only ever been a symbol of the folly of war, the worst, most black and shameful era of British and European history. I've been to the actual battlefields and mass graves across Europe, held the minutes silence without fail every rememberence day my entire life, for as long as I could understand the meaning of it.

There was no glory in this war. No thrilling action or daring do, no heroes and villains, this was mass murder, a scar on the history of our species, and every single person involved in it was a victim.


This trailer, the entire concept of this game, makes me feel physically sick, and just so fucking angry.

How fucking dare anyone make a game like this about the Harlem Hellfighters.

I don't know what's worse, the sick fucking emotionless, greedy cunts that would seriously exploit this horror of an industrialised massacre, or the ignorant, soulless bastards that will give them money and enjoy it.

Anyone involved in this, or seriously think of buying this, should be ashamed of themselves.

Do you feel better now?

 

[Unit 33]

Looks pretty good, other than the distracting and distorted cover of 7 Nation Army.
I'm glad it's taking a look at the many sides involved in the conflict rather than just UK/US vs Germany.

 

[Portugeezer]

What's the issue?

Some people didn't know black people fought in WW1 or that they had an important role in it.

Since the BF1 it was interesting reading up about it.

 

[Gaz_RB]

Is this still pseudo alt history?

 

[Kinyou]

Considering how few games there are about WW1 I wouldn't mind if they had their focus on the central war in europe. Trying to tell unknown stories isn't a bad idea either though

 

[Juicy Bob]

Berlin: We thought it was a cool image for the cover. When we set out on this game, we wanted to depict not just the common view of what the war was like. We wanted to challenge some preconceptions. We want to delve into some of the unknowns of World War One. Maybe people don’t know that this person fought or that person fought, that this army was involved. We’re stretching out and bringing all those stories into the game. But I can’t go into any specific details as far as which armies or characters we’re depicting at this point.

I like this. Even if it is just a silly vidya game, if it can help to bring awareness to some of the lesser-known aspects of WWI and challenge some common misconceptions then that is an admirable thing in my opinion.

 

[brawly]

Yes. Unlike any other war that was just a jolly old time.

Do you feel better now?

I think this meme is even better than the FF13 one. Fun times ahead.

 

[Chille]

And here I thought it was Simpson dlc
https://youtu.be/UM87kwGnzgA

 

[DrSlek]

I'm confused by the Bedouin warrior woman. Did they exist?

 

[Mr. Giggles]

I'm confused by the Bedouin warrior woman. Did they exist?

Bedouin warriors yes, although female ones i have no idea

 

[Heshinsi]

there’s a Bedouin woman warrior on a horse. She’s a playable character in the single-player campaign.

Nice.

I'm confused by the Bedouin warrior woman. Did they exist?

Women had more freedom in the past than they do now in parts of the Middle East.

 

[Fury451]

Hey to the haters

Deal with it. It's done.

What haters though?

Seems like OP pre-emptivly is making an issue where there is none.

The biggest backlash I've seen about the game has to do with class specific vehicles, not the inclusion of the (awesome) Harlem Hellfighters unit.

This is why you get forgettable white dudes on your cover. Put a black dude on there and suddenly people start to talk about cultural representation.

A white dude is just a dude. A black dude is black and must be pandering, only fought one year of this war and why is x country not on there even though this discussion didn't occur for wwII game covers

Well said.

Also: The "it's made by Americans, for Americans" is funny considering that DICE isn't American.

 

[Kinyou]

Nice.


Women had more freedom in the past than they do now in parts of the Middle East.

From what I read were the Bedouins pretty patriarchal.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negev_Bedouin_women#Cultural_status