ThatsMytrunks
Member
Considering the recently released Wii U hacks allowing for undubs and stuff, this'll be fine eventually.
-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
Western Localisation Of Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE Features Costume And Age Changes
- Thread starter Storm Chamber
- Start date
- Status
I literally posted this from Nintendo's official blog....on the last page.....
oops lol
The wall of text might look scary, but very insightful and I completely agree with all of the points you've made. In the past I used to think the German changes to games were so absurd that I felt sorry for you guys... But since a few months ago I've been living in said country, so now I feel like I'm entering a minefield whenever I want to buy a game. I always need to check websites online to make sure that 1: It's not censored, and 2: I can actually change the language to english, because you people got used to dubbing everything in German. Thank god for online shopping :^)
Either way, ladies and gentleman, please stop your crusade against virtual boobies or the ones who enjoy them. There is nothing wrong when a game decides to be a little more risky, be it with violence or sex appeal. It can make the story a lot more interesting, and even with stuff like Senran Kagura, where the "plot" is mostly boobs, its meant to be taken in good fun. My German girlfriend was actually completely unaware that so much stuff got censored in Germany before she met me, and whenever I show her the censored content, be it boobs or violence, she can't understand why such changes get made... She is completely fine with that stuff. Which makes me wonder exactly who these companies are trying to "save" with their righteous moral compass. I also strongly dislike the level of violence in God of War, not for the content itself but because Kratos is an asshole, so what do I do? Not play it, problem solved. If you love GOW, knock yourself out dudes, I'm cool with it.
And while I'm at it, R.I.P. R.Mika's backside. You shall live forever in our minds, Youtube and PC modded versions of SFV.
Eolz
Member
Blargh. Just seen them promote that on twitter too, at least they got mostly negative reactions for that...
Still behaving like it's the 90s and nobody knows what's happening with localizations or what is the content in a game that has been released months earlier in another region.
Think of the children!
Or something like that, even if its' completely optional and not changing anything to the ratings. It's just dumb.
Really good post, and I fully agree. I have no problems with changes, but I really get annoyed when they change stuff, call it censorship or whatever you want, when they release it in another region.
Palculator
Unconfirmed Member
Great post! And yeah, I agree with FluxWaveZ that it deserves its own thread.
cj_iwakura
Member
When all's said and done, they're a business. Businesses rely on customers. And when you do moves that alienate a key demographic, you're going to lose customers.
So yes, they can do whatever they want with it, and they shouldn't be surprised when the game's sales here make the Japanese launch look like a chart topper.
Yeah, it only took like a week for people to undub and uncensor Xenoblade X. Seems like this might require more work, though.
Astral Dog
Member
this is horrible.
Robert at Zeboyd Games
Banned
It's obvious that they think they're making it more appealing to key demographics & that any demographic that they're alienating is a minor one.
If that's the reasoning then someone over at NOA is a bigger idiot than I could have dreamed.
cj_iwakura
Member
This.
Robert at Zeboyd Games
Banned
NoA isn't a niche localizer. They don't want niche successes - just look at how long they hesitated on Xenoblade and that was a game that was already localized and released to critical acclaim. They leave TMS unedited and sell to the niche, what? Maybe 25k? That's a failure for them.
They edit it and lose maybe 5k-10k max of that niche, but gain a 5% chance that the game takes off to a more mainstream audience (like Fire Emblem did) and I can see why that's a move they wanted to make. For a big company like Nintendo, better to have a small chance to have a hit game that they can monetize with sequels and merchandise than to have a small niche success.
Honestly, if it wasn't for the triple combination of 1) Atlus involvement (who probably pushed for an English release since their margin for success is tight), 2) Wii U library being very light this year and 3) Fire Emblem taking off in a big way recently, I wouldn't have been surprised if Nintendo wouldn't even bother to release the game outside Japan. And if the game's not a hit, I think they're going to be even more reluctant to localize similar games in the future, especially if NX takes off and they get those mainstream successes they're searching for.
There is no way that this is the impetus for the decision, as has been discussed ad infinitum in here.
The miniscule number of people likely to not buy it because of localisation changes, as a reason for poor sales, pales in comparison compared to it being a JRPG firmly based around a pop culture that has little mainstream appeal outside Japan on a dying platform. I don't think anyone at Atlus or Nintendo is going to be looking at sales of FE (or Xenoblade X for that matter) and think 'if we had only left the swimsuits in, it would have been a success!'.
A handful of vocal angry fans on the Internet are rarely a representative sample of a 'key demographic', and I imagine the number of lost sales due to localisation changes rather than other stuff (like the whole theme of the game) is going to be tiny in comparison.
I mean, I like Fire Emblem, SMT, JRPGs, have a WiiU and enjoyed Persona 4 which seemed to touch on similar themes. And even I'm looking at it and wondering whether it's really for me. It's kinda a niche within a niche on a console that's dead in the water. Which isn't to say that it's a bad game, just that I think the general response from WiiU owners partial to RPGs is going to be 'WTF?' rather than 'No hot springs?',
They killed that 5% chance when they made it subs only. They have to have zero hope for this game financially or someone has literally gone crazy.
Robert at Zeboyd Games
Banned
Lots of mega-successful RPGs don't have vocals at all - just look at Undertale. Subs-only isn't the mainstream sales death in video games that it is in anime.
Which begs the question as to why you would go even further financially in the hole to lose more of the small number of sales you're likely to have?
Crash Station
Member
They'd have to completely remake the game from the ground up for it to have any more than zero mainstream appeal. Toning down some fanservice doesn't change the fact it's about a niche portion of the Japanese entertainment industry and is sub only (which honestly makes it more niche than leaving everything as is and dubbing it)
Flame Lord
Member
Those chances were completely dashed as soon as they decided not to even give it a dub. If that wasn't bad enough, it's also a Wii U game, a JRPG, turn based, made by Allus, with a story that is way deep into Japanese culture. Nearly every single thing about this game has "BOMB" written all over it.
Point to a Japanese dub, English subbed RPG that did this.
The answer is in the post you're responding to--to have a small shot at the mainstream success that Fire Emblem Awakening had. It's a gamble, but it's the only move that *might* turn a signifcant profit.
Robert at Zeboyd Games
Banned
And Persona 5 is a turn-based Japanese High School simulator crossed with anime hijinks. Didn't stop it from trending in the Top 5 on Twitter in the United States when they released the latest trailer. If Nintendo manages to get a success along the lines of a Persona or a Tales or a Star Ocean, I'm sure they'll be quite pleased. What they don't want is <Insert Vita Fan-Service RPG> levels of sales.
You can't be serious? There's a difference between a lack of vocals all together and not dubbing audio for a certain populace. The moment they announced that they're not bothering with dubs made it clear what NoA though of TMS' financial chances in the West.
Not to mention the whole assortment of other reasons that would turn off a general populace such as a focus on idols, turn-based mechanics, anime character designs, and a weird ass title. There is zero, absolutely zero, chance that this game is going to do gangbusters. Even Xenoblade, and that was infinitely more geared towards a Western audience, didn't smash down doors.
And Persona 5 doesn't focus on idols, an even more niche aspect of otaku culture.
Nintendo making these changes to a super niche game on a super niche console and turning off what few fans were going to buy this game makes no sense. If gives fans no faith in them going forward with these types of games on whatever the NX is. Which just adds to the pile that Nintendo keeps building up.
Also, did you just compare a cheap ass Undertale to a $60 niche retail release on a niche ass console?
ShinNatsume
Banned
The sales potential was already limited with its niche genre, even more niche setting, japanese dub only and now the added censoring. I doubt that it will sell well and i wouldnt even suprised if it flops in EU/NA even more than in japan.
Also you cant compare a big franchise like fire emblem thats running on good selling plattform with a small niche title on the wii-u
kunonabi
Member
The thing is they've already cut down on the people who are going to buy it by not having a dub. That 'miniscule' audience you speak of with of with such disdain is the exact audience that is willing to put up with subs only. When you're dealing with such low numbers and how incredibly niche the game is every sale counts. That's why Atlus, Xseed, etc make sure they have those people on board and work from there. The bottom line is Nintendo is going out of their way to alienate just about everyone on a project that barely has a shot of being financially viable, if at all, to begin with. It's obvious that NOA is just embarrassed by the game and is only bringing it out because they absolutely have to.
lmao, maybe the issue is that Nintendo is as deluded about Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE's potential Western sales as you are? There was 0% chance this game was ever going to even approach this after its Japanese release.
I guess all we can do is wait for the game to come out in a month for you to see this.
But Awakening had mainstream success in Japan from the get go in comparison to #FE didn't it?
Maybe Nintendo think poor PR in national press around age concerns/skimpy outfits might affect the family-friendly image on their next machine/mobile games/brand to the tune of making it worth spending the cash now?
They have to release the game as they've got nothing else, so I suspect they just want to minimise any broader concerns at the expense of annoying a minor subset of the people who follow gaming news relentlessly.
And yet they released Bayonetta 2 and have her in Smash.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
We're still doing this "they edited to get better sales!" argument?
Come on. This game was inherently limited by the niche subject matter. Unless NoA somehow managed to completely get rid of that, which I doubt even they could do, they're not getting a wider audience.
Come on. This game was inherently limited by the niche subject matter. Unless NoA somehow managed to completely get rid of that, which I doubt even they could do, they're not getting a wider audience.
M rated too.
At this point, they could have slapped an M rating on this, not censored a thing, brought over all the DLC and actually gained some positive news instead of whatever the hell they are doing now. As least it would be "different" in the eyes of many and may actually have attracted more attention. Any made up PR negativity over their "family friendly" image is bogus to start with and paranoid at best when they eagerly trotted Bayo 2 out to die with Nintendo Directs and some ad dollars behind her.
Wow comparing Undertale to this. I only bought that game because it was so cheap, with the trading cards being so valuable it was like $3-4 USD.
I'd never buy this game for the $70-80 they want on top of all this unnecessary crap they've put in the localization. Hope all the localization costs for the changes were worth it.
I'd never buy this game for the $70-80 they want on top of all this unnecessary crap they've put in the localization. Hope all the localization costs for the changes were worth it.
That's the most reasonable explanation and I thought we came to that conclusion a few pages back? It's the most simple explanation that fits all the points. The only thing that baffles me is how much effort they're putting in, in addition to being inconsistent with what they deem censor-worthy.
What! That idea was immediately demolished the moment the game was shown off. I'm playing through the Japanese version right now and this might be the most anime game I have played in ages. No amount of censoring and chopping is going to make this game more appealing to anyone outside of the narrow base it was developed for.
There is absolutely no gambles or maneuvers with this game that could possibly turn it into the next Persona or Tales, that is impossible. Want to know something interesting? If your game doesn't have an English dub, American retailers will heavily cut their stock order. Physical copies will be extremely limited by virtue of that alone.
Robert at Zeboyd Games
Banned
And see, I'm not saying that TMS is going to be a big hit or is even likely to be a big hit. I'm saying that Nintendo was most likely forced to release the game in NA (Atlus contract, lack of Wii U lineup) and they're gambling to have a slight chance that the game doesn't bomb completely. Better to have a tiny chance of success than just give up.
Any reliability to this NPD rumor that Xenoblade X sold drastically better in North America than in Japan? That's a very Japanese game (Anime Mecha RPG) that Nintendo edited and if true, sales didn't suffer. EDIT: Guess Neogaf didn't like that link so probably not reliable.
And Persona 3-4 AREN'T incredibly anime games?
Any reliability to this NPD rumor that Xenoblade X sold drastically better in North America than in Japan? That's a very Japanese game (Anime Mecha RPG) that Nintendo edited and if true, sales didn't suffer. EDIT: Guess Neogaf didn't like that link so probably not reliable.
And Persona 3-4 AREN'T incredibly anime games?
They already aged the girls up to 18, there's nothing to be concerned about. It's not like they were 12 years old or anything to begin with, they were 17.
True, but any PR department is going to say that, these days, adult women in fetish gear don't attract quite the same negative attention as cartoon human characters described as 17 or whatever in skimpy outfits.
20 years ago the papers here were permanently full of sex scandal, whereas now it's seen as less of a taboo. John Ronson's book 'So you've been publicly shamed' covers it quite nicely (at least regarding the UK press, happy to be proven wrong about the U.S.). Basically general western attitudes regarding the freedom of consenting adults to do their own thing have changed.
Yep, same here. NoA's ridiculously asinine behavior has soured me on Nintendo as a whole and I have some serious reservations about supporting them in the future now. I won't buy TMS and I'm no longer locked in on buying the NX.
Sure, I just think they are being overly cautious, as the financial risk of fewer copies of FE being sold is nothing compared to even the potential of being at the centre of a PR shitstorm over a game they are only even releasing because they feel obligated to. Maybe they look at it as 'it's going to be a disaster anyway, make it as safe as bloody possible, even if you have to leave chunks on the cutting room floor, then we just write off the costs and forget about it'.
I'm pretty sure that creamsugar mentioned that XBX sold north of 200k back in its debut month, which I think soundly beat the game's LTD sales in Japan. Very good numbers for any non-major franchise JRPG in the US.
Honey Bunny
Member
Release unchanged and get some positive news? Lol. The only news they'd get other than the reviews is every California based game website (like half the industry) slating them for the 'gross' sexualization.
Whether or not you think that matters in the real world is a different thing. I reckon it could only increase the sales of the game given the audience for super niche JRPGs, even on Wii U. But it's all about the PR here.
- Status