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[MegaManTrigger]

GameFreak doesn't like having Pokemon do things that they had no canon reason not to do before. It's why Leafeon doesn't evolve via leaf stone and why you need to use some dumb insense to make a Mantyke.

That's a very complicated way to think about evolutions. It's more likely that GF just wanted to introduce as many new and gimmick evolution methods to keep things fresh without having an overreliance on existing evolution methods.

 

[Shadow Broker]

ORAS is the one that introduced the universe thing iirc

Multiple universe thing is just a way to include major rework on old Pokémons without killing the past games lore.

Multiple Universes is the one thing I wish GameFreak takes back. Shit is fucking stupid.

This isn't comic books.

 

[GiantBreadbug]

I don't know, ask GameFreak. They seem to consider it a huge problem, to the point where they created a whole new universe to justify Mega Stones. I think it's really annoying personally, I hate having a Pokemon evolve via Ancient Power.

The examples you've listed don't really have much to do with Eviolite. I don't see how the softcore lore of a Pokemon being able to use a new item changing is something they'll care much about if they want to introduce a new evo.

 

[Menitta]

Multiple Universes is the one thing I wish GameFreak takes back. Shit is fucking stupid.

This isn't comic books.

This. It's like every game franchise ever needs a Zelda timeline.

 

[Already Torn]

That's a very complicated way to think about evolutions. It's more likely that GF just wanted to introduce as many new and gimmick evolution methods to keep things fresh without having an overreliance on existing evolution methods.

I don't think so. If that were the case I don't think they would go to such great lengths for something like Wynaut. At the very least you'd expect to see at least one Pokemon level up normally if they didn't consider this an issue. Using a Dusk Stone isn't exactly an exciting new thing either when we've been using stones since Gen 1.

The examples you've listed don't really have much to do with Eviolite. I don't see how the softcore lore of a Pokemon being able to use a new item changing is something they'll care much about if they want to introduce a new evo.

Having Dunsparce suddenly be able to use the Eviolite is the same as having Eevee suddenly able to use a Leaf Stone. I'm sorry if you don't see it. Notice how the only new evolution we've had since Eviolite's introduction was for a Pokemon that could already use Eviolite? 😏

 

[Azuran]

Multiple Universes is the one thing I wish GameFreak takes back. Shit is fucking stupid.

This isn't comic books.

How is that less stupid than space and time altering Pokemon?

 

[Joqu]

I don't know, ask GameFreak. They seem to consider it a huge problem, to the point where they created a whole new universe to justify Mega Stones. I think it's really annoying personally, I hate having a Pokemon evolve via Ancient Power.

The why is that GameFreak never does it that way.


Growing pains.

I don't know man, I'm not convinced GameFreak would shy away from changes like that now, as long as they feel like they've got a good reason to do so. I really think the Mega Stone thing was just them taking a new gameplay mechanic as an opportunity to tell a (dumb) story.

 

[Kouriozan]

How is that less stupid than space and time altering Pokemon?

Praise Arceus! He can make legendary eggs appear just like that!

 

[wmlk]

How is that less stupid than space and time altering Pokemon?

Acknowledging the existence of multiple universes is huge. The Gen IV Legendaries bring introduced still meant that it was considered as part of one singular canon and universe.

 

[Already Torn]

I don't know man, I'm not convinced GameFreak would shy away from changes like that now, as long as they feel like they've got a good reason to do so. I really think the Mega Stone thing was just them taking a new gameplay mechanic as an opportunity to tell a (dumb) story.

Oh, I agree. It also has the benefit of allowing them to stop coming up with bullshit reasons to evolve past Pokemon though, which is nice.

 

[God Dayumm]

I hate it that Pokemon went full Marvel

 

[Kouriozan]

I hate it that Pokemon went full Marvel

This isn't even their final form!

 

[Abstrusity]

Yes but when are we going to get a game that I can get every pokemon in without having to do trades on the GTS where many will be hacked?

 

[MegaManTrigger]

We can assume that Gligar has been able to have its stats boosted by the Eviolite since Gen 2, it's just that we didn't get the chance to try it out until Gen 5 because there was no Eviolite in previous games.

We know for a fact that Eviolite doesn't work on Dunsparce.

The bolded makes no sense when you consider its cross-gen evolution never happened in Gen II, only in Gen IV. So how could its stats have been boosted in Gen II? The whole need to explain things makes it needlessly complicated. This is about a series that somehow manages to find and retcon in 100+ new species of Pokemon despite that Gen I only had 151.

I don't think so. If that were the case I don't think they would go to such great lengths for something like Wynaut. At the very least you'd expect to see at least one Pokemon level up normally if they didn't consider this an issue. Using a Dusk Stone isn't exactly an exciting new thing either when we've been using stones since Gen 1.

Not sure I see where you're going with Wynaut, considering it's one of the few Baby Pokemons that evolve regularly, IIRC. Just because they have access to new methods, doesn't necessarily mean they need to always push it. A dusk stone is at least a new stone that gives new ways for Ghost Pokemon to evolve via stones. Sure, it's no different from stone evolution, but that it gives a new and viable way for Ghosts to evolve is a good thing.

Yes but when are we going to get a game that I can get every pokemon in without having to do trades on the GTS where many will be hacked?

Never, trading and inter-console communication has always been a fundamental part of Pokemon. If anything, they need to beef up their hackcheck, especially when it's so pathetically easy to tell which Pokemon are hacked.

 

[Chuck]

so many fan evolutions...

I remember when XY came, you literally couldn't google images of the proper evolutions without getting 90% bullshit.

 

[Brawly Likes to Brawl]

How is that less stupid than space and time altering Pokemon?

It's pointless to introduce an alternate reality to justify a game mechanic when nobody really would've cared.

It also doesn't help that the concept was introduced in-game by a sociopath that was using the dumbest logic ever to explain why she was screwing up an effort to prevent the apocalypse.

 

[BGBW]

Wait, so is Pokémon a series that tries to claim that everything possible now would have been possible in Red and Blue but the conditions weren't there or a series full of parallel universes?

 

[Azuran]

Acknowledging the existence of multiple universes is huge. The Gen IV Legendaries bring introduced still meant that it was considered as part of one singular canon and universe.

If a Pokemon is able to control space, what's stopping it from creating alternate universes? We had the Distortion World in Platinum so it's not like alternate worlds is a new thing in the series. There's also Hoopa with the whole space warping and travel thing.

 

[PseudoViper]

Wow, these starter designs lol really?

Edit: BTW, how can y'all like the OWL over the CAT?! I think the cat is a wayyyyyyyyy cooler design.

 

[Already Torn]

The bolded makes no sense when you consider its cross-gen evolution never happened in Gen II, only in Gen IV. So how could its stats have been boosted in Gen II?

Not sure I see where you're going with Wynaut, considering it's one of the few Baby Pokemons that evolve regularly, IIRC. Just because they have access to new methods, doesn't necessarily mean they need to always push it. A dusk stone is at least a new stone that gives new ways for Ghost Pokemon to evolve via stones. Sure, it's no different from stone evolution, but that it gives a new and viable way for Ghosts to evolve is a good thing.

Gligar could evolve into Glisscor in Gen 2, you just were unable to meet the evolution conditions as a player because you couldn't get the evolution item.

Wynaut can only be created when you breed Wobbuffet with a special incense that can only be acquired in Gen III. You could theoretically breed a Wynaut in Gen II if you had the incense, but you can't get the incense in Gen II.

I think you're missing the key concept here.

I don't think Dusk Stone is a ghost type stone. It's just a new stone they had to make because they needed a new stone because they can't use the old stones that were previously available. When the dusk stone was introduced, only one of the Pokemon it worked on wast ghost type.

GameFreak has exclusively given new evolutions and pre evolutions conditions that couldn't be met in previous games. The idea is that when you say "Why couldn't this pokemom evolve before then?" they say "Oh it could, you just didn't meet the conditions". It's all about consistency.

 

[AetherZX]

So, we're taking Zinnia's concern about multiple universes as the holy truth?

 

[Diprosalic]

Mega Evos suck.
the fact that we won't get normal evos for past 'mons makes them even worse.

 

[AetherZX]

Mega Evos suck.
the fact that we won't get normal evos for past 'mons makes them even worse.

After gen 4, I don't miss regular evos at all.

 

[Qurupeke]

We got Sylveon though. Best Eevee.

 

[MegaManTrigger]

Gligar could evolve into Glisscor in Gen 2, you just were unable to meet the evolution conditions as a player.

Wynaut can only be created when you breed Wobbuffet with a special incense that can only be acquired in Gen III. You could theoretically breed a Wynaut in Gen II if you had the incense, but you can't get the incense in Gen II.

I don't think Dusk Stone is a ghost type stone. It's just a new stone they had to make because they needed a new stone because they can't use the old stones that were previously available. When the dusk stone was introduced, only one of the Pokemon it worked on wast ghost type.

The logic in your example doesn't quite add up. Even if you try to bridge the gap and explain things, you're still stuck with dealing with the fundamental disconnect in that the games are split between Gen I-V being treated as self-contained stories vs. retconning in new information with each generation. But then again, we're talking about a series that doesn't care to put effort nor emphasis on explaining changes with each gen (at least not until the multiverse nonsense with regards to Mega-Evolution in ORAS).

I didn't say that the Dusk Stone is a Ghost-only stone, just that it gives Ghost Pokemon new ways to evolve, since logically speaking, you wouldn't expect a Ghost Pokemon to evolve with a Fire/Water/Leaf/etc. Stone, unless you intentionally built the Ghost Pokemon with the element(s) in mind. Though I should mention Dark types too as Honchkrow evolves as a result of the Dusk Stone, so that's two types that could use the Dusk Stone as logical means to evolve.

 

[Already Torn]

The logic in your example doesn't quite add up. Even if you try to bridge the gap and explain things, you're still stuck with dealing with the fundamental disconnect in that the games are split between Gen I-V being treated as self-contained stories vs. retconning in new information with each generation. But then again, we're talking about a series that doesn't care to put effort nor emphasis on explaining changes with each gen (at least not until the multiverse nonsense with regards to Mega-Evolution in ORAS).

I didn't say that the Dusk Stone is a Ghost-only stone, just that it gives Ghost Pokemon new ways to evolve, since logically speaking, you wouldn't expect a Ghost Pokemon to evolve with a Fire/Water/Leaf/etc. Stone, unless you intentionally built the Ghost Pokemon with the elements in mind. Though I should mention Dark types too as Honchkrow evolves as a result of the Dusk Stone, so that's two types that could use the Dusk Stone as logical means to evolve.

My example is rock solid. Please explain why you think otherwise. Tell me why anyone should think that Eviolite wouldn't boost Gligar's stats if you could obtain it in Gold and Silver. In the logic of the game please.

 

[Menitta]

We got Sylveon though. Best Eevee.

Are we just going to ignore Umbreon?

 

[GiantBreadbug]

My example is rock solid. Please explain why you think otherwise. Tell me why anyone should think that Eviolite wouldn't boost Gligar's stats if you could obtain it in Gold and Silver. In the logic of the game please.

Because it doesn't have an evolution in Gold and Silver, but now it does?

That's not that crazy of an idea.

Why does Jigglypuff suddenly take neutral rather than super effective damage from fighting moves?

Retconning.

They do it literally all of the time.

 

[Already Torn]

Because it doesn't have an evolution.

It does have an evolution, Glisscor. You just need to level it up at night with the sharp claw or whatever nonsense item.

Or did you try that in Gold and Silver and it didn't work?

 

[GiantBreadbug]

It does have an evolution, Glisscor. You just need to level it up at night with the sharp claw or whatever nonsense item.

Or did you try that in Gold and Silver and it didn't work?

I really don't know what you're trying to say.

As new items and new Pokemon are introduced, they interact in new ways. And sometimes those are in direct conflict with old things, so they get updated. It happens very frequently.

 

[Mista Koo]

not bad

Adorable, in fact too adorable to be actual evolutions!

 

[Already Torn]

I really don't know what you're trying to say.

As new items and new Pokemon are introduced, they interact in new ways. And sometimes those are in direct conflict with old things. It happens very frequently.

The way they design evolutions and pre-evolutions is so that, in theory, these evolutions always existed.

 

[mStudios]

Being the 20 Anniversary and all that. Will this game reach the 20m copies sold?

 

[MegaManTrigger]

My example is rock solid. Please explain why you think otherwise. Tell me why anyone should think that Eviolite wouldn't boost Gligar's stats if you could obtain it in Gold and Silver. In the logic of the game please.

Because you're operating under the assumption that the item and evolution were available in the original game after being revealed in the future game, when the games themselves have not made that clear link (In other words, Gen II isn't the same as Gen IV unless you focus on HGSS). Furthermore, the multiverse theory problematizes the idea even more, because you still have fundamental story issues where Gen II and HGSS are now technically being treated as two completely different parallel worlds and by extension GSC and HGSS are standalone from each other, so how can anyone say that what happened in Gen IV can be thought of as happening in Gen II? The series never bothers to provide a good enough explanation for the issues surrounding changes and multiverses, it's needlessly complicated.

Which goes back to my original point, the more you try to explain things like this in a series that doesn't exactly care to explain changes pre-Gen and post-Gen VI, the more you're going to find holes and inconsistencies with its retcons.

 

[DecoReturns]

Being the 20 Anniversary and all that. Will this game reach the 20m copies sold?

It could with great marketing.

I'm sure they got something up their sleeves for this game

 

[Firemind]

The way they design evolutions and pre-evolutions is so that, in theory, these evolutions always existed.

Don't Chansey and Golbat evolve through happiness? Chanseys and Golbats in Kanto are miserable confirmed.

 

[Brawly Likes to Brawl]

Don't Chansey and Golbat evolve through happiness? Chanseys and Golbats in Kanto are miserable confirmed.

In FRLG they actually block you from evolving those two until the postgame

 

[Nanashrew]

On the topic of Litten and the stripes. It can be seen as sulfer, but also the stripes can resemble many early anime shows and movies. They don't feel as prominent as they did then outside of maybe a few children using a very simplistic art style. Back in the early days of anime, EVERYTHING was aimed at children up until, I believe the mid-late 70's and got more mature on into the 80's.

A pic I took from The Little Prince and the Eight-Headed Dragon. I took a small pic of it cause the movie is only in anamorphic format 2.39:1

 

[MegaManTrigger]

It could with great marketing.

I'm sure they got something up their sleeves for this game

20m sales would take some godly marketing, especially when you consider how numbers-wise, Pokemon sales have been in a bit of a decline (though market-share wise it's a completely different story, IIRC XY/ORAS have much better market share for the 3DS than Gen V had with the DS overall).

 

[Pokemaniac]

So, we're taking Zinnia's concern about multiple universes as the holy truth?

There's not really a reason not to. It's been clear for a while that remakes replace the originals in canon, and this explanation for that gives Game Freak the internal consistency that they seem to crave.

 

[Already Torn]

Don't Chansey and Golbat evolve through happiness? Chanseys and Golbats in Kanto are miserable confirmed.

I think it's more likely that Red is a soulless automaton. It's why he doesn't speak in GS.

 

[GoldStarz]

Multiple Universes is the one thing I wish GameFreak takes back. Shit is fucking stupid.

This isn't comic books.

It helps if you realize what they're going for. They weren't actually saying "XY and ORAS take place in a different universe" like most people immediately jumped on. Once you take every piece into account, you realize they were saying "Each individual game is it's own universe. This Omega Ruby is a universe just for you, just like the Pokemon games you've played in the past. Each experience was your own universe." It's a cute message, in my opinion, even if it could've been made a bit more obvious.

 

[Blues1990]

I think it's more likely that Red is a soulless automaton. It's why he doesn't speak in GS.

Well, all of the protagonists (true to Nintendo tradition) are mute. Splatoon made a jab at this trope in the Single Player mode, if I recall correctly.

 

[Already Torn]

Well, all of the protagonists (true to Nintendo tradition) are mute. Splatoon made a jab at this trope in the Single Player mode, if I recall correctly.

But all of the other protagonists can love their Chanseys!

 

[Daemul]

The only way for GF to avoid the whole mega evolution in Hoenn problem would have been to either to make a Hoenn remake without mega evolution or not make a remake at all (fairy type was far less of a problem since it would just have been treated like Steel and Dark type were in FRLG), but due to money and marketing those options were never on the table at all, so they kicked ORAS to it's own alternate universe and called it a day.

 

[Sou Da]

The only way for GF to avoid the whole mega evolution in Hoenn problem would have been to either to make a Hoenn remake without mega evolution or not make a remake at all (fairy type was far less of a problem since it would just have been treated like Steel and Dark type were in FRLG), but due to money and marketing those options were never on the table at all, so they kicked ORAS to it's own alternate universe and called it a day.

So is ORAS it's own thing? Did RSE happen without megaevos in the main games?

 

[Already Torn]

So is ORAS it's own thing? Did RSE happen without megaevos in the main games?

Yeah, X Y and ORAS are their own universe I believe.

 

[MegaManTrigger]

The only way for GF to avoid the whole mega evolution in Hoenn problem would have been to either to make a Hoenn remake without mega evolution or not make a remake at all (fairy type was far less of a problem since it would just have been treated like Steel and Dark type were in FRLG), but due to money and marketing those options were never on the table at all, so they kicked ORAS to it's own alternate universe and called it a day.

It's a problem that didn't need to be fixed. The closest example is when you were blocked from evolving Pokemon like Golbat > Crobat in FRLG because the game was like "HURR DURR YOU DIDN'T GET THE NATIONAL DEX SO NO CROBAT FOR U LOL," or how FRLG/HGSS suddenly added newer Pokemon that didn't exist in the original games. They didn't need to overexplain why M-Evos are in Hoenn. They could have just treated it as something that was always in the remake version of Hoenn, just like how remake Kanto and Johto had newer things from its originals.

In a way Pokemon is starting to suffer from what Zelda is suffering in terms of forcing a connection with self-contained games that when you think about it, is simply irrelevant and contributes nothing to the saga as a whole.

 

[Blues1990]

But all of the other protagonists can love their Chanseys!

OR DO THEY?!

 

[BGBW]

Blue is in an alternative universe to Green.