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Western Localisation Of Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE Features Costume And Age Changes

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Multiple actually. Both Tsubasa when she mentions her age, and the photographer dude when he sees Tsubasa in her costume. That's only the beginning of the game too, who knows how deep it goes.

I almost forgot about that. They basically sacrificed the cost of a dub in order to free up cost in re-rerecording lines, if my speculation is correct.

As Duckroll stated, it's baffling, but as others have said as well, it could be because they want to crush any potential source of controversy #FE could bring. Because of their own potential disinclination towards the project, they don't want it being troublesome in any way for them moving forward. They'd want it to release to the niche audience it's clearly for and... that's that. No more having to think about #FE from that point onwards.

Ah, that makes sense. Basically it's worth doing the trouble to avoid controversy while doing as little work otherwise possible. Still, quite baffling. And not very good to their fans and fans of games like these.
 
They should've just let Atlus publish the game in the west and distanced themselves from it completely if they didn't want it, like they did when they gave XSEED The Last Story and Pandora's Tower. Atlus would've released it uncensored and we wouldn't be discussing any of this.
It's a game with FE(Fire Emblem) in the title with Fire Emblem in it. It'd be impossible to completely separate themselves from it.

It really does make me keep thinking that the people at Atlus were like, "Since we're not paying for this, let's experiment a whole lot so we can take the lessons learned from this game into our own projects in the future." They decided to go nuts, and Nintendo was there to also guide them along a specific path, but at no point did someone go "Maybe we shouldn't go too crazy?"

I guess that can sorta be taken as the only positive. Like someone/s over at Atlus wanted to make this kind of game and clearly got the freedom to do so. So they didn't foot the bill, got to make the game they wanted, and it was well received by the few people who played it. Success?
 
I'm baffled as to why Nintendo wants to waste so much effort in getting people more riled up.
Just a business-decision based guess, but most of this is probably fulfilling some contract which, long before this product was finished, included a NA release. Most bad decisions in the game industry tend to be related to contractual obligations--especially the trainwrecks.

Don't really care about the censorship but I'm also not the audience for this game.
 
Only question is, if NOA didn't want this game, wouldn't they try to do as little editing as possible and throw it out?

Instead we're seeing quite the volume of edits, including a voice change, which I believe is the first time in localization history that a Japanese spoken line was changed to match a censored item.

We also would've never gotten it in Europe if Atlus would end up publishing it themselves.
 
I really dont understand Nintendo, they increased the age of the underage character and they are STILL censoring the whole game and making it sooooo different to the intended game that I cant wrap my head around it
 
At this point, I'm kind of excited just to see what other minor modifications have been made.

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At least with the Devil's Third it seems everyone more or less recognized that and acknowledged it before it was even released. Barebones distribution, zero marketing, and they even agreed to let Valhalla go shop the multiplayer component around on PC to their own satisfaction. I would say that's making the best out of a bad situation they were already in.

Here it feels like they're dragging out their own suffering. It takes MORE effort to comb through a game and to enforce edits and changes both in text and in graphic assets. Doing all this to somehow make the game seem less embarrassing to some imaginary audience that would appreciate or care for that? What a waste of time. The people who are open to playing this game in the first place and buying it would be fine with what it is. It's not like this is some lewd perverted child touching game. It doesn't seem any more "lewd" than the Rise stuff in Persona 4, which touched on the same idol themes. The people who don't care for idols, waifus, fanservice, or the heavy modern Japanophile-centric themes, are not going to care about the game with or without these edits.

I'm baffled as to why Nintendo wants to waste so much effort in getting people more riled up.

Pretty much. What should've just been a straight localization turned into some weird edit fest.
 
honestly if NoA doesn't want any attention on this game, why even do a physical release

why are they even doing a special edition release?

it's like half going all out on it and half trying to hide it and hope no one notices it and makes a stir
 
I said it earlier in the thread, but yeah. The mere fact that this game exists is mind boggling. I can't help but think Atlus willfully sought to make the least marketable game they could for Nintendo. And Nintendo was too stupid to say "Hey wait a minute this isn't gonna sell too well outside Japan"

A straight SMTxFE crossover would've had infinitely more appeal, and no doubt have been easier to market. Even a really barebones "portals open up and now all these characters are thrown together go kill the generic big baddie."
 
honestly if NoA doesn't want any attention on this game, why even do a physical release

why are they even doing a special edition release?

it's like half going all out on it and half trying to hide it and hope no one notices it and makes a stir

Maybe the preorder number from retailers is actually good, idk, wishful thinking I guess.
 
There's a likelihood this game sells better in the West than it even did in Japan. It's more like, "Hey wait a minute, this isn't gonna sell too well."
Yeah, this is sort of my expectation. If anything the NA release is probably an attempt to recoup resources since it seems like it bombed in JP.
 
Even though this game won't make a profit, it's still going to sell more in NA and EU than it did in Japan, so...I guess that's where the question of 'why put so much effort into it?' gets its' answer. Especially because Fire Emblem is seen as a major property for Nintendo right now.
 
Not sure I can support buying this new. Might have to cancel my preorder.

Hopefully someone undoes all the changes via Wii U homebrew.
 
Not sure I can support buying this new. Might have to cancel my preorder.

Hopefully someone undoes all the changes via Wii U homebrew.

There probably won't be a lot of copies printed or a reprint given its nature and how late it is releasing. That and it's a Nintendo published and owned title. Bear that in mind if you want a physical release.
 
Yeah, this is sort of my expectation. If anything the NA release is probably an attempt to recoup resources since it seems like it bombed in JP.

I still feel like a big reason the game is coming westward in the first place is because it was essentially promised to the western audience years ago when it was announced. I really think they expect very little of sales for this game which is sad since I think it looks like a good game. Hope they can get their resources back.
 
I still feel like a big reason the game is coming westward in the first place is because it was essentially promised to the western audience years ago when it was announced. I really think they expect very little of sales for this game which is sad since I think it looks like a good game. Hope they can get their resources back.

The thing is, if they wanted it to sell better, they pretty much did everything wrong.
 
There probably won't be a lot of copies printed or a reprint given its nature and how late it is releasing. That and it's a Nintendo published and owned title. Bear that in mind if you want a physical release.

Yeah. If you want to buy it used specifically because you don't want to show support, it may still be smartest to still purchase used near release date.
 
The thing is, if they wanted it to sell better, they pretty much did everything wrong.

I think they expect it to not do well. I suppose to them it's not worth "ruining" the image of family friendly Nintendo for a game they expect to not sell well in the first place.

Which leaves us in an awkward place. Glad were getting it and thr censoring doesnt bother me too much, but its still annoying.
 
I still feel like a big reason the game is coming westward in the first place is because it was essentially promised to the western audience years ago when it was announced. I really think they expect very little of sales for this game which is sad since I think it looks like a good game. Hope they can get their resources back.

My guess is they're doing it out of respect for Iwata and because of the Zelda delay. They wouldn't touch it otherwise and would probably be happy to not serve the demographic that wants the game to begin with. NX software is going to be very interesting to see going forward.
 
There probably won't be a lot of copies printed or a reprint given its nature and how late it is releasing. That and it's a Nintendo published and owned title. Bear that in mind if you want a physical release.

If you want W101 you can still get it for $25 easy enough. If you want the SE for this game, yeah order it now. Enough stores are stocking this game that there will be "some" stock.
 
There probably won't be a lot of copies printed or a reprint given its nature and how late it is releasing. That and it's a Nintendo published and owned title. Bear that in mind if you want a physical release.

They did recently open up preorders for the SE at Best Buy, which was previously exclusive to Amazon and Gamestop. Given how quickly it sold out on Amazon each time it was up, I wonder if they're slightly raising expectations for the title.

What's more surprising is that Best Buy is going to carry the game in store now, so the supply might be bigger than originally anticipated.
 
I was too until I saw how the main developer has been acting. Very disappointed in his professionalism and conduct.

Kind of late here but I just wanted to note that this post is fucking embarrassing. Now I get that sometimes we can't or don't want to separate an artist from their work. Like if you hear that so-and-so supports re-instituting slavery, that may warrant concern about the person getting your money. But what I've seen in here is pretty civil debate about localization. It's fine if you disagree with his take, but taking a shot at a fellow poster's livelihood in this manner just because he doesn't like the same content you do is really petty.
 
As Duckroll stated, it's baffling, but as others have said as well, it could be because they want to crush any potential source of controversy #FE could bring. Because of their own potential disinclination towards the project, they don't want it being troublesome in any way for them moving forward. They'd want it to release to the niche audience it's clearly for and... that's that. No more having to think about #FE from that point onwards.

Censorship causes controversy though. Leaving it as is with a skeleton crew localization and no advertising would have helped more in letting it be forgotten.
 
My guess is they're doing it out of respect for Iwata and because of the Zelda delay. They wouldn't touch it otherwise and would probably be happy to not serve the demographic that wants the game to begin with. NX software is going to be very interesting to see going forward.

uh, that bad, eh? less japanese games for NX it seems.
 
Censorship causes controversy though. Leaving it as is with a skeleton crew localization and no advertising would have helped more in letting it be forgotten.

Well, obviously I'm on the side that thinks no one would have batted an eye to any of the content originally in #FE, but Nintendo obviously doesn't think so because these changes have been made. Knowing this, all we can guess is *why* Nintendo did this, and a reasonable conclusion is because they wanted to utterly destroy any potential point of controversy from the general public.

I don't think controversy from the people discussing it right now really matters to them or to the image they want to preserve. There's the fact that I personally think the people riled up about this have a direct line to the actual consumers who were going to buy this game in the first place but, again, that's obviously not Nintendo's thought process.
 
I said it earlier in the thread, but yeah. The mere fact that this game exists is mind boggling. I can't help but think Atlus willfully sought to make the least marketable game they could for Nintendo. And Nintendo was too stupid to say "Hey wait a minute this isn't gonna sell too well outside Japan"

A straight SMTxFE crossover would've had infinitely more appeal, and no doubt have been easier to market. Even a really barebones "portals open up and now all these characters are thrown together go kill the generic big baddie."

I agree that a straight SMTxFE would appeal to more people, but after seeing all the bizarre edits this games has suffered I don't think that project would have resulted in something people actually wanted. If something as tame as TMS got this treatment, I really doubt Nintendo [specifically NoA] would have been willing to go all the way with some of the content commonly found in SMT.
 
I agree that a straight SMTxFE would appeal to more people, but after seeing all the bizarre edits this games has suffered I don't think that project would have resulted in something people actually wanted. If something as tame as TMS got this treatment, I really doubt Nintendo [specifically NoA] would have been willing to go all the way with some of the content commonly found in SMT.

Most SMT content would have been fine since they usually don't have as much pandering in this manner. It may have just meant they would have gotten an 'M' rating depending on the topics and conflicts they decided to go over which seems like what even Nintendo may have been initially expecting.
 
Kind of late here but I just wanted to note that this post is fucking embarrassing. Now I get that sometimes we can't or don't want to separate an artist from their work. Like if you hear that so-and-so supports re-instituting slavery, that may warrant concern about the person getting your money. But what I've seen in here is pretty civil debate about localization. It's fine if you disagree with his take, but taking a shot at a fellow poster's livelihood in this manner just because he doesn't like the same content you do is really petty.

I'm still going to support Zeboyd and am excited for Cosmic Star Heroine, but I don't see an issue with that if there's still a big ideological difference that some wouldn't want to support. Censorship has become a hot topic lately, and some aren't going to take too kindly to those that go out of their way to support it regardless of what they think of the content itself. kiryogi doesn't care that someone doesn't like the content, but rather that someone is so against it that they support what some consider to be backwards practices put into place to neuter said content.

I don't see it as much different than not buying The Vanishing of Ethan Carter because the developer is part of Gamergate, or not buying Fez because Phil Fish is an asshole.

And I mean, Zebody has million sellers under their belt. A few angry people on gaf aren't going to make a difference.
 
If you want W101 you can still get it for $25 easy enough. If you want the SE for this game, yeah order it now. Enough stores are stocking this game that there will be "some" stock.


You're comparing a game by Platinum Games that came out in the first year of the Wii U to a JRPG by Atlus that came out in the last and involves the Fire Emblem IP.

There's a first for everything but, this has low print rare game written all over it, special edition or not. Nintendo knows a lot of Nintendo RPG fans will spring for special editions, that's why it exists. Game is still going to be rare.

NOA clearly aren't comfortable with this game, so don't expect to ever see it again necessarily.
 
It's a game with FE(Fire Emblem) in the title with Fire Emblem in it. It'd be impossible to completely separate themselves from it.

Project X Zone 2 was released only a few months ago, it has Fire Emblem and Xenoblade characters in it, advertises the fact and is basically full blown over the top fanservice all the way (not just sexy fanservice though, that's just one flavour of it, it's basically "90s Videogame Culture Fanservice - The Videogame"). This didn't turn heads or lead to any sort of devaluation of either Fire Emblem nor Xenoblade nor Nintendo - The Brand™. I think in this regard TMS is actually far enough away from classic Fire Emblem (and SMT) that it really seemed more like a sort of "Persona: Fire Emblem Allusion Edition". I could see this flying under everyones radar if published by Atlus or XSeed or even Nintendo themselves because.. it really IS pretty harmless content in the JP version to begin with.

Sadly, this isn't so much the case with modern JRPGs. You pretty much have to put up with some level of fan-service no matter what you buy these days, even in the ones that aren't specifically designed as wannabe almost-porn titles like Criminal Girls. It's highly annoying for people who like the genre but don't like the pandering.

Yeah, there are a lot of pandering games out there. I agree with you in the regard that it would be actually nice to have more games for more different tastes in general - and many RPGs feature content which I can strongly see why many people dislike it (same as with the shooting games in my "violence"-based example btw.). Nevertheless, the answer isn't to start cheering for change in products during localisation that already are a certain way in their original form. While people who dislike pandering might at first "get their way", this sends a message. "It is OK to change tone, intention and even whole storylines during localisation for the sake of *insert current perceived as problematic content*." This is a very selective and anti-media stance in my opinion. Say someone is against bikinis in games so this feels like a sort of progression, but 2 years later localisation changes now omission all religious subtones in a game about religion or - and this is possible when political and social climates change, even in countries with very modern worldviews - companies decide to remove any mention of homosexual relationships from a work. Actually, we’ve still had that only a couple of years back in videogames in their US translations.

You single out RPGs and optional bikini outfits here, but those aren't the only things getting changed during localisations, it's just the case in the current examples. As someone who had to deal with all sorts of localisation changes in all game, movie, book, music, comic etc. genres during my whole life, this is terribly shortsighted and really a double-edged "progress" if you want to call it so. A real progress IMO would be to promote the games that aren't like Criminal Girls or that Atlus Dungeon Crawler we don't talk about on GAF to help those other games getting more exposure and in progress... getting more like them done instead of changing something which is already there into something else. Promote Falcom RPGs (Trails in the Sky/Cold Steel series, Ys - though newest upcoming entry VIII seems to have some fanservice -), Ni No Kuni, Dragon Quest Joker spinoff and the upcoming DQ7-remake, Pokemon, Valkyria Chronicles (the first one at least), Souls-series (it is a Japanese made RPG, if anyone disagrees, let's take it to another thread :D), Shin Megami Tensei IV (unless you're arguing that demon designs are fanservice as well), Tactics Ogre, Resonnance of Fate and the like. Hell, you're making Cosmic Star Heroine which is a game that looks amazingly fun and is a game I absolutely have on my radar. I like fanservice in some games, myself, but it isn’t the only thing I enjoy in this world and I also enjoy all sorts of games and contents. Actually, as I've pointed out, I actively welcome games and companies producing games which are more inclusive, non-pandering and wholesome the same as I welcome companies doing over the top grindhouse style pulp games. I just do not welcome changing an already finished product for an intended audience to... make it something else.

Also, though this isn't really an excuse for the status quo, but something which sometimes makes me wonder when it comes up in arguments about Japanese-made RPGs in general... it wasn't a lot better back in the day. I mean, I get where you are coming from in a way (apart from the PC98 and other computer-styled games such as Dragon Knight, there weren't as many JRPGs which DEFINED themselves through fanservice). But there was a lot fanservice back in the day as well, it was just pixelated or reduced to dialogue and concept/coverart. From the skintight bodysuits and flimsy skirts of Final Fantasy IVs Rosa and Rydia and VI with Celes to the bikini armour in Dragon Quest series and the dancers in Dragon Quest IV to the Dragon Ball-style sexy jokes in Chrono Trigger and Secret of Mana, the leatherstring-onepiece wearing Nei in Phantasy Star II, Lunars bikini- and nude-intro-walking scenes, Grandias sometimes crude humour, ... that is now of course a very selective set of games but I really have trouble to think of any retro JRPG without fanservice right now... Terranigma, Lufia, Tactics Ogre, Front Mission and Suikoden 1 maybe? I must admit I haven't played many more than those I've mentioned here because a lot of them weren't released in Europe and importing stuff was super expensive back then.

I'd argue that this argument works just as well for the opposite side. Tokyo Mirage Sessions is Nintendo & Atlus' game. They can do whatever they want with it. If they want to tone down the fan-service in the US version because they'd like to get paid for their work (or have the game be successful enough to fund a sequel) and think it'll be more successful with the changes (or for whatever reason), it's their game, it's their prerogative and by complaining about the changes, you're saying that they should cater to your wishes. If it's a dealbreaker, don't buy the game and maybe next time, they'll make a different decision.

Companies make these kinds of changes all the time in other industries as well. Just look at movies - there are tons of examples where they'll tone things down slightly (or up) because they want a specific rating so that they can reach a specific audience.

I agree, I even argued that in my post as well. Doesn’t mean I think this is a positive change or way to handle this sort of content, instead I think it sets precedents which can backfire in really shitty ways later down the line. (again, I wouldn’t care at all if the original work already would contain little or no fanservice, it’s really this „change something, change the tone, change the characters, …“. I see many European and German posters agreeing with this idea, I am not sure where you live or in how far you’ve encountered companies or governments or both in unison changing products because they disagree with it before).

Bonus: As I've pointed out, as a German I am more than used to movies, comics, literature and games being changed. Sometimes changed a lot. Mostly in regards to violence, abusive dialogue, politically sensitive themes. Some of the content changed, I actually on a personal level think "It would be good to have less media with this kind of content" but at the same time think "If it doesn't actively break laws or is hate speech, it SHOULD be allowed to exist in a healthy media environment.". Which is maybe a reason why I feel so strongly about any sort of change, because I've already seen how this sort of mindset of "we have to change media for our customers/country people" works, and it gets worse over time and more intrusive even. Though as pointed out in this thread already before, in Germany over the last couple of years, it finally began getting better. Maybe this is a reason why I feel so strongly about this topic, because after taking a breath now we get to enjoy "changed localised media" again because of certain current American standards. Edit: And maybe that's a reason why especially Anime fans in the US are also against these changes - back in the 90s, lots of Anime regardless of rating got cut for their US releases and Anime fans actually fought a long and hard fight for changing this with petitions, fanzines, articles, speeches on conventions... and they've partly won with new companies coming up who strongly opposed changing or cutting Anime, old companies changing their policies and they were successful. That was also funnily around the time Anime finally hit mainstream. Now this kind of mindset from back then is coming back full force (in Japanese videogames) and that feeling kind of sucks for longtime fans of both Anime and games, I imagine.

I never go buy a game in a German store (or a movie, book, comic for that matter) without beforehand checking actual German resource pages about cut movies, comics, games, books, ... And the "FSK18" sticker doesn't hold the ... localisators back. Though we actually have a government-funded agency on their backs who can and did very often in the past pull products from the shelves completely. Did you know that buying, selling, talking about (in non academic/negative context) or showing to anyone in public the game Dead Rising 1 (and I think 2 as well) is a small criminal offence in Germany :P (It is actually "Beschlagnahmt", which is the second level of "not allowed to be officially sold", the first one being "Indiziert" which just means you can't publicly sell it or talk about it but are still allowed to buy in 18 years and older shops... getting Resident Evil 2 in the 90s meant to go to the backroom where they also kept the hardcore pornography and pull it out of the shelves there. Most didn’t have it in stock because selling a product you can’t advertise publicly is bull). Or that I of course didn't jump through loops with Steam and do not own Left 4 Dead 2 in its UK version because why would I do that it's verboten, I am totally fine with my version without any splatter or gun usage feedback :P....

It is quite interesting being a fan of action, horror, scifi, even fantasy and superheroes in Germany. For the semantics amongst us, censorship is forbidden by law in Germany actually so they do all this and it's really just localisation even if it is the state making the decisions because otherwise the government would break the law itself :P
 
I'm still going to support Zeboyd and am excited for Cosmic Star Heroine, but I don't see an issue with that if there's still a big ideological difference that some wouldn't want to support. Censorship has become a hot topic lately, and some aren't going to take too kindly to those that go out of their way to support it regardless of what they think of the content itself. kiryogi doesn't care that someone doesn't like the content, but rather that someone is so against it that they support what some consider to be backwards practices put into place to neuter said content.

I don't see it as much different than not buying The Vanishing of Ethan Carter because the developer is part of Gamergate, or not buying Fez because Phil Fish is an asshole.

And I mean, Zebody has million sellers under their belt. A few angry people on gaf aren't going to make a difference.

I'm going to be straight here. I'm honestly tired of the word censorship being tossed around as though it automatically adds gravitas to the situation. There's this belief that censorship is inherently bad and I think it makes some of these conversations tiring. You know when censorship is alarming? When it's a government censoring journalists from reporting on human rights violations. You know when it's not inherently egregious? When we are talking about corporations marketing and branding products for local markets in an endeavor to generate profits.

Robert expressed an opinion on how this game could be marketed tailored to him. The idea that differing viewpoints merits condemnation of his professionalism is ridiculous. He has an opinion. Others disagree. That's fine. But pretending that which side of the divide you're on in this important matter of whether or not to tone down fanservice in the Western localizations is absurd.
 
I wasn't on the fence about this game at all, I've been looking forward to it for a long time. I still want to play it, but I'll make sure to get it used so that Atlus and Nintendo don't get a dime. If I can't find a used copy honestly the censorship has killed my enthusiasm to the point where I'd be fine not playing it too.

I have bought censored games in the past when I felt the changes were understandable. Something like DT2 for instance, or Monpiece. But unless someone from Atlus or Nintendo comes out with a really good explanation for these changes I can't understand them at all.

The word censorship does have an inherently negative connotation to it Steve. Whether you refer to these changes as censorship or localization basically just depends what side of the issue you're on.
 
I'm going to be straight here. I'm honestly tired of the word censorship being tossed around as though it automatically adds gravitas to the situation. There's this belief that censorship is inherently bad and I think it makes some of these conversations tiring. You know when censorship is alarming? When it's a government censoring journalists from reporting on human rights violations. You know when it's not inherently egregious? When we are talking about corporations marketing and branding products for local markets in an endeavor to generate profits.

Robert expressed an opinion on how this game could be marketed tailored to him. The idea that differing viewpoints merits condemnation of his professionalism is ridiculous. He has an opinion. Others disagree. That's fine. But pretending that which side of the divide you're on in this important matter of whether or not to tone down fanservice in the Western localizations is absurd.

"What about government-driven suppression on human rights violations"? Really?

People use charged language to condemn things they don't like all the time. I don't see how engaging in whataboutism makes the practice more or less valid.
 
Most SMT content would have been fine since they usually don't have as much pandering in this manner. It may have just meant they would have gotten an 'M' rating depending on the topics and conflicts they decided to go over which seems like what even Nintendo may have been initially expecting.

It's not really pandering that I would be worried about. There are a lot of elements of SMT, like its use of religion to drive its Law/Chaos thing, that I could easily see getting greenlit over in Japan and then scrubbed clean when NoA gets their hands on it. Seeing how TMS has turned out, they completely didn't make it with an international audience in mind, so I imagine it would have been the same case with a straight SMTxFE.
 
Robert expressed an opinion on how this game could be marketed tailored to him. The idea that differing viewpoints merits condemnation of his professionalism is ridiculous. He has an opinion. Others disagree. That's fine. But pretending that which side of the divide you're on in this important matter of whether or not to tone down fanservice in the Western localizations is absurd.

I think it's more that people don't want to support the muzzling of authorial intent, which can be disappointing when that view comes from a fellow creator, something that absolutely could be a sign of a lack of professionalism. Saying something along the lines of "I wish this didn't have as much fanservice" is different than supporting actual story cuts and making a dungeon that originally showed the seedier sides of the idol industry into something completely devoid of meaning. It's very much a "let me convey the message I want to convey" thing, something works of art should be allowed to do. When the business side comes along and hinders that, people won't be happy. When the creative side agrees with that, people will be even less happy on an individual level.
 
"What about government-driven suppression on human rights violations"? Really?

People use charged language to condemn things they don't like all the time. I don't see how engaging in whataboutism makes the practice more or less valid.

My point is that "Robert doesn't like thing I like" is a shitty reason to condemn him of unprofessionlism and trying to frame it as "he supports censorship" is a disingenuous way of making it seem like more of an important issue worth boycotting than it really is.
 
It's not really pandering that I would be worried about. There are a lot of elements of SMT, like its use of religion to drive its Law/Chaos thing, that I could easily see getting greenlit over in Japan and then scrubbed clean when NoA gets their hands on it. Seeing how TMS has turned out, they completely didn't make it with an international audience in mind, so I imagine it would have been the same case with a straight SMTxFE.

Then again, there are a lot of factors at play here. In a hypothetical scenario where this was actually SMTxFE, it most definitely would have performed better in Japan and it probably would have had a higher age rating. This potential success would have possibly altered localization plans in the West, like the game being dubbed and the target ESRB rating being M.

Though, it seems that Nintendo isn't afraid of altering M rated games and SMT can do some crazy shit at times, so maybe the point is moot and a game like that would have been heavily altered for the West regardless.
 
For what it's worth, I don't care if someone uses the word 'censorship' or 'localization'. I ideally like to think though that people can recognize what's being talked about at the end of the day is content being changed not for the purpose, so that consumers elsewhere can understand the content. I feel getting into the topic of 'What is *Insert word here*?' tends to derail conversations too much from the actual topic being discussed.

It's not really pandering that I would be worried about. There are a lot of elements of SMT, like its use of religion to drive its Law/Chaos thing, that I could easily see getting greenlit over in Japan and then scrubbed clean when NoA gets their hands on it. Seeing how TMS has turned out, they completely didn't make it with an international audience in mind, so I imagine it would have been the same case with a straight SMTxFE.

I now have this funny image in my head of Nocturne trying to scrub away all religious imagery in localization, and it'd probably be easier to do with than most of the other SMT games. I also haven't played Bayonetta 2, but I'm guessing it had similar imagery anyway from what I played in Bayonetta 1, so I don't see any changes there.

My point is that "Robert doesn't like thing I like" is a shitty reason to condemn him unprofessionlism and trying to frame it as "he supports censorship" is a disingenuous way of making it seem like more of an important issue worth boycotting than it really is.
It also comes off as character attacking which this topic should try not to devolve into as well.
 
I'm going to be straight here. I'm honestly tired of the word censorship being tossed around as though it automatically adds gravitas to the situation. There's this belief that censorship is inherently bad and I think it makes some of these conversations tiring. You know when censorship is alarming? When it's a government censoring journalists from reporting on human rights violations. You know when it's not inherently egregious? When we are talking about corporations marketing and branding products for local markets in an endeavor to generate profits.

Robert expressed an opinion on how this game could be marketed tailored to him. The idea that differing viewpoints merits condemnation of his professionalism is ridiculous. He has an opinion. Others disagree. That's fine. But pretending that which side of the divide you're on in this important matter of whether or not to tone down fanservice in the Western localizations is absurd.

And I'm tired of people using localization as a replacement for censorship when the changes are done in service of an agenga people are in support of. We don't always get what we want. This is censorship done in service of a localization effort. Much like Robert you seem content to dumb this all down as simple fanservice so it isn't a surprise that you would want to steer the conversation from calling it what it is.
 
You're comparing a game by Platinum Games that came out in the first year of the Wii U to a JRPG by Atlus that came out in the last and involves the Fire Emblem IP.

There's a first for everything but, this has low print rare game written all over it, special edition or not. Nintendo knows a lot of Nintendo RPG fans will spring for special editions, that's why it exists. Game is still going to be rare.

NOA clearly aren't comfortable with this game, so don't expect to ever see it again necessarily.

I'm sure it won't get reprinted, but do you think W101 did? Do you think they had a bigger expectation for W101 than TMS? I'm sure it will be a low print run, but a number of stores are carrying it including in store (not just online). Best Buy isn't going to stock this game if Nintendo only sends them 2k.

Of course it is rolling the dice, but sooner or later either the game will sell out or these stores will have sales to get rid of the stock. I get that Nintendo likes to keep that premium price for their games, but the Wii U hasn't really stuck with that. Even games like SMB/MK8 has had holiday sales.
 
This edits transcend the whole "we're making these to increase our sales range" since they're so minute. At this point, I'm willing to believe "spite" or "we're getting paid to request edits here in America" arguments, that's how ridiculous this has gotten. Especially if you compare it to Camilla like Vena did earlier.

Nothing is consistent....
What probably happened is that the game managed to cross a threshold with Nintendo that caused them to be overly reactionary. FE:F failed to actually do that so they didn't get overly worked up, not to the same extent, but this is all coming off as "we need to be sure" versus "we don't really need that swimsuit, do we?"
 
Then again, there are a lot of factors at play here. In a hypothetical scenario where this was actually SMTxFE, it most definitely would have performed better in Japan and it probably would have had a higher age rating. This potential success would have possibly altered localization plans in the West, like the game being dubbed and the target ESRB rating being M.

Though, it seems that Nintendo isn't afraid of altering M rated games and SMT can do some crazy shit at times, so maybe the point is moot and a game like that would have been heavily altered for the West regardless.

I mean, just looking at this game on its own, the edits aren't even consistent. Nintendo seems to be a wild card when it comes to what they do and don't care about, but I feel like religion is something they're extra touchy towards.
 
I mean, just looking at this game on its own, the edits aren't even consistent. Nintendo seems to be a wild card when it comes to what they do and don't care about, but I feel like religion is something they're extra touchy towards.

You'd be surprised, especially after Xenoblade X and all the crazy-ass shit that goes down in the more religious-themed sidequests.
 
What probably happened is that the game managed to cross a threshold with Nintendo that caused them to be overly reactionary. FE:F failed to actually do that so they didn't get overly worked up, not to the same extent, but this is all coming off as "we need to be sure" versus "we don't really need that swimsuit, do we?"

Yeah. Despite Atlus doing the localization, it feels like Nintendo did a lot of pre-work by already editing scenes (and even dialogue?) beforehand.
 
I mean, just looking at this game on its own, the edits aren't even consistent. Nintendo seems to be a wild card when it comes to what they do and don't care about, but I feel like religion is something they're extra touchy towards.

Well Xenoblade X didn't dance around the subject of religion, given that there's a church and that it had several sidequests where one's faith drove them to murder. So it's not like Nintendo is averse to talking about it.
 
My point is that "Robert doesn't like thing I like" is a shitty reason to condemn him of unprofessionlism and trying to frame it as "he supports censorship" is a disingenuous way of making it seem like more of an important issue worth boycotting than it really is.

I get the first half, but that's a lot of reading into intent I'm not really interested in following on the second. I just found the absurd comparison made to defend the word 'censorship' to be off the mark.

It's not just that people want to legitimize the complaint by taking on the word 'censorship', it's also because stronger language to contextually describe what is happening from that PoV doesn't exist. Stuff like 'editorial changes' and 'localization' --this is language made for the producers/developers, not for the consumers or would-be consumers. It doesn't express that something of value to them is being taken away, because on that side of the aisle this is just how things work and those terms encompass a larger process that includes changing/giving/taking things.

On the would-be/consumer side, something of value is being taken away, so people want stronger language to reflect that. 'censorship' is the closest thing. Maybe someone will invent a word so it won't be conflated with government-enforced suppression of information or whatever, but I doubt it.
 
And I'm tired of people using localization as a replacement for censorship when the changes are done in service of an agenga people are in support of. We don't always get what we want. This is censorship done in service of a localization effort. Much like Robert you seem content to dumb this all down as simple fanservice so it isn't a surprise that you would want to steer the conversation from calling it what it is.

I'm fine with calling it censorship if that's what we want to call it. That's not entirely unfair. Where I differ is in terms of whether or not censorship is inherently bad. Like I said, the government is censoring reporters from notifying the public about human rights abuses? Ok, yeah. Definitely bad. We should fight against it. A corporation making branding/marketing decisions to try and make a product more palatable for a different territory? Yeah, I'm not on board with this being some sort of civil or consumer rights fight that everyone should be fired up about.
 
I'm fine with calling it censorship if that's what we want to call it. That's not entirely unfair. Where I differ is in terms of whether or not censorship is inherently bad. Like I said, the government is censoring reporters from notifying the public about human rights abuses? Ok, yeah. Definitely bad. We should fight against it. A corporation making branding/marketing decisions to try and make a product more palatable for a different territory? Yeah, I'm not on board with this being some sort of civil or consumer rights fight that everyone should be fired up about.

I would agree if they were just censoring outfits. But they're not just doing that. They're changing scenarios and censoring story beats and themes. That's really, really bad to me no matter who does it and for what purposes, marketing or otherwise.
 
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