More and more people are deciding to move to PC for various reasons. Simplicity, better costs, better performance. The problem MS/Sony will continue to face is that they're continuously catering towards the crowd that can/will spend the money to build their own PC, because MS/Sony have hammered it into peoples' heads that graphics are the most important thing when it comes to playing a game.
Emily Rogers: NX Not Using x86 Architecture - Won't Blow Away Current Gen Consoles
- Thread starter dancrane212
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Psycho_Mantis
Banned
Not the case anymore.
In fact, the console versions of The Witcher 3 comprised 70% of the games sales, with the PC version representing the other 30%.
Not sure if people are moving to pc.
PdotMichael
Banned
You are living in a crazy echochamber.
Even crazy PC centric series like the Witcher sold overwhelming more on consoles than PC.
KungFucius
King Snowflake
This bit me in the ass this gen. I bought all 3 consoles and there have been very few exclusives worth playing on them over playing third party PC games. The Xbox was the biggest waste with the big exclusives coming on PC now. I was expecting PS360 level of awesome exclusives and got 2 paper weights that I boot up 1-2 times per year. I haven't even bought UC4 yet and am not sure when I will have a weekend to devote to it.
fabricated backlash
Member
That's what I did. My ps4 at this point is exclusively a Naughty Dog machine and a BluRay Player for my wife.
Aside from the fact that pc Games are on average cheaper even when new, I have no reason to get 3rd Party Games on consoles anymore.
And that's before we get to the topic if online paywalls.
GhostTrick
Banned
Truth to be told, The Witcher 3 PC SKU sold more than The Witcher 2 as a whole and faster. Console release expanded it but also marketing budget too.
You also have cases of console centric series selling more on PC.
But yeah, I dont believe PC is eating into console or opposite. Basically, the trend moving forward is about ecosystems.
i'll add to the crazy echochamber - the witcher is not indicative of the success on consoles versus pc. undertale, bastion, hotline miami, gone home, stardew valley, risk of rain, and minecraft are what you should be looking at. those are games that wouldn't have reached the same install base they did on pc if they were on console. on dedicated hardware, there's a sort of class system where a game at retail inherently has more importance and clout versus something that's digital only. platforms like steam have become the great equalizer so that all sorts of games and new ideas can flourish.
the witcher 3 plays into the huge aaa-budget game-loving audience that's been cultivated by microsoft and sony on their platforms for the last decade. of course something like that does well.
and to be really fair, that's not to say that digital games aren't big or can't be big on ps4 and xb1 (or some nintendo platform too). i'm saying that dedicated hardware is not where all the new and interesting ideas are coming from anymore. it's because as platforms, they don't have the kind of freedom to do so, which is linked to what they are and what kind of business model they rely on, and also what kind of audience they pull.
PdotMichael
Banned
The fact that there are games or type of games which are big on PC isn't really relevant if we talk about the narrative that console games are moving away from consoles to PC.
Which isn't what we can see based on the sales. Getting your games on consoles is still one of the most important milestones even for indie developers.
Which isn't what we can see based on the sales. Getting your games on consoles is still one of the most important milestones even for indie developers.
GhostTrick
Banned
The narrative itself is flawed. Based on the sales, there's a growth for multiplatform developpement.
well i don't know about console gamers moving to pc. but the old model of the dedicated platform with specialized stores and specialized media is decaying rather quickly, yes. i think ghosttrick has it right by saying that ecosystems are developing as the new platforms. third-parties are even trying to set up their own bases in this new frontier. instead of playstation dedicated platform 5 and 5.5, you'll see playstation 5 platform (across several kinds of devices).
Yesterday in the investor day EA was actually promoting the idea of an EA players network that would have common saves, common friends (and achievements I think) between the platforms. So, yes, the trend is towards more platform agnostic systems.
http://wccftech.com/ea-build-player-network-works-platforms-gamers-connected/
KonradLaw
Member
Even if that's true..there's no way it will stay like this forever. Sooner or later PC version of W3 will outsell console ones.
Presumably they are not talking about buying a game once and playing it on any device though.
No or not yet, but still they try to remove some of the platform specific hurdles.
One thing i read but couldn't remember where, which was interesting... NX would not have the same amount of RAM as XBO/PS4. Appearantly i just found out, i read it on 10k's twitter.
But it raises an interesting point. If Nintendo does go with an ARM CPU which is +/- 30% above PS4 (LCGeek), if they use a modern Tegra (X1 or P1) with paper specs on par with XBO... what about RAM? Is RAM a bottleneck for the XBO/PS4? How much do they use for the OS?
But it raises an interesting point. If Nintendo does go with an ARM CPU which is +/- 30% above PS4 (LCGeek), if they use a modern Tegra (X1 or P1) with paper specs on par with XBO... what about RAM? Is RAM a bottleneck for the XBO/PS4? How much do they use for the OS?
Roland1979
Junior Member
And they barely have any third party support and they pretty much dropped Wii U support and they have no new Zelda until 2017. To be honest i have lost all interest in Nintendo. They have some great 1st party games, but PC offers such a vast amounts of games i can barely tackle my backlog. I don't think i will be buying an NX, which is the opposite of what i thought a few months back (in on day one).
Nintendo likes strange things.
6GB (4GB games, 2GB OS) in LPDDR4 sounds like something they will do. For the home console of course. It checks the "no ps4/xbone amount", low power, and cheaper than GDDR5 (I believe?) cases.
Bots are better than you
Banned
And you, and the poster you quoted, need to realize that numbers on paper and the comparison to other numbers are rather pointless if Nintendo goes with a different architecture for their console.
We would need a dev actually working with the system to talk about performance to make a real comparison. I somehow doubt that Nintendo is going to throw out statements about in-depth performance power at the NX event.
michaelius
Banned
What crazy demands of PS4 neo? Looking at leaked stuff all devs need to do is slap better AA level on the game to meet minimal neo version upgrade.
I'm not sure. Historically, their systems have not been RAM starved. WiiU had 4x more (total) RAM than PS3/360. It depends i guess if 4GB for games would be a bottleneck, with that setup.
Skittzo0413
Member
The other thing which strikes me as odd about his post (and similar ones) is that these are all just rumors and to essentially write off a product that you previously were going to buy day one, based on one unverified and unconfirmed rumor? That's oddly over-reactionary.
Well maybe not odd for a video games forum, but still it's quite absurd.
Yes, but graphics cards are not semi-custom. This is a totally different business. Nvidia sells the actual GPUs to AIB partners.
Roland1979
Junior Member
You ignored my other points. I don't care about raw power that much, but i do care about how easy it will be to port to and Nintendo's relations with 3rd parties. That combined with my other points means even if they will have a very powerful machine, if 3rd parties will not be on board then neither will I.
Except it's not based on this rumor, it's based on their lack of Wii U support and no Zelda until 2017. This thread was what made me realize i lost interest in Nintendo. Which is obviously a popular opinion in a Nintendo thread. Or better, i care about some first party games, but not enough to justify buying a new console. Zelda is almost the sole reason i would buy a Nintendo console.
Forgive the somewhat snarky post, but this is how it works. People like to make kneejerk reactions and won't wait for more details. Or make a full 180 when things start to look better in their eyes.
Apparently porting won't be a problem; games apperaing on PS4/Xbox One work on this supposed NX set-up. It's been mentioned several times in the thread. Third parties actually publishing games on the system? Different story.
Skittzo0413
Member
Well if you do take these rumors into account, we've pretty much heard only good things about porting PS4/XB1 titles, so that doesn't appear to be a problem as others have said. Again, rumors though.
Lack of Wii U support and Zelda delayed to 2017 can only mean GOOD things for the NX, so I don't quite understand that reasoning. Nintendo has shifted all their development to NX games, so that it will launch with a much better lineup and schedule than the Wii U did. And again, how does the news that there is no Wii U support and Zelda delayed to 2017 make you think, based on THIS thread, that you now are not going to buy a console you would have a few months ago? That logic doesn't track for me.
Ha yeah, I'm aware. This one just especially stuck out to me since he explicitly said he was going to be in on day one before this "news." Not to mention that even if this rumor is true, we don't know if the real world performance will be better or worse than PS4. I bet if the NX console does perform better than the PS4 people will be jumping down Emily's throat saying she was wrong or lied or what have you, even when she explicitly says these are raw numbers only.
Oh well.
Dr. Buni
Member
I hope. Retro > third parties to me.
Bots are better than you
Banned
The most powerful hardware doesn't translate to full 3rd party support, just as a rather "weak" hardware doesn't translate to no 3rd party support.
Weak in terms of not being more powerful than current gen systems by a huge margin, that is.
It's Nintendo's job to provide a system, thats just powerful *enough* for 3rds to work without a hassle (providing tools, support, engine support(!) are there), and for Nintendo to price accordingly. A simple PS4K clone wouldn't do anyone a favor.
You can't expect the situation with 3rds to magically turn good just because of hardware, and especially not during one gen. With NX, Nintendo should focus to get the 3rd party mainstream games back on the system while improving their own output and make the "Nintendo userbase" more healthy as it was pre-Wii U (no, not Wii levels).
Show the 3rds that your system(s) can be a viable enough option, then situation can really begin to improve further.
Nah, it's just jumping to conclusions, and Nintendo threads or rather threads about Nintendo hardware are somewhat the world championship of jumping to conclusions.
Roland1979
Junior Member
I meant to say their lack of Wii U support is telling about how they treat customers. I did not read this entire thread, too long, but the third party support is good. No Zelda until 2017 might be good for NX but it's not for my Wii U that is gathering dust. I only want to buy one console, that's why third party support is very important for me.
No but if they went with a system completely different from XB and PS it won't help. Powerful is (at least somewhat) relevant when it is the latest console, released well after the XBO and PS4 launched. Though i don't think many people will expect Nintendo to release something that focusses on pushing graphics.
Skittzo0413
Member
Well that's a fair point for sure. But the Wii U sold disastrously so it's hardly unexpected that they would put off some of their support in attempt to strengthen NX support. I personally do not regret my purchase because my PC lets me play pretty much anything else I want to (besides Bloodborne, which is not worth $400 to me yet) and the Nintendo games which did release on Wii U have been some of their best ever.
Also, if you do pay attention to the rumors and speculation going on, you'll notice that there's a distinct possibility that the NX will be a single shared library across handheld/console devices, and that future console generations might simply be upgrades added to the NX console, so that you will essentially end up being able to buy one piece of Nintendo hardware and having access to all of Nintendo's games for at least the next 10 years. Third party support is a different question which rests likely on the size and makeup of the install base, rather than the actual hardware specs.
So my point is, we have a lot of information suggesting that the NX will correct a lot of the problems you seemingly had about the Wii U, so instead of writing it off right now based on this rumor, you'd be better off waiting to see what it actually is. Since to be honest we really know nothing for sure.
The problem is though, that we don't know when (or if) the PS5/XBT will hit. Could be merely 2 years behind NX, and we'd again be facing a Wii/WiiU scenario... unless SCD's can prevent that.
It's not gonna happen. Using Wii U's CPU again would be too slow, even as an 8-core version, on top of being expensive due to how antiquated it is. Plus, we're hearing that it'll use an Nvidia GPU.
Well, shouldn't you be happy then? You just saved yourself $200-300 that wouldn't have satisfied you anyway.
First of all, the "no ps4/xbone amount" was a 10k rumor, so you can throw that in the garbage. Second, in order to hit that amount Nintendo would need to use either one chip on a 64-bit bus, or two 3GB chips on a 128-bit bus. This would mean extremely low bandwidth unless they go with embedded memory again. I doubt they'll do that after the cost that it added to Wii U. They could, and then they'd also have 3GB chips for the handheld, but I think that a 256-bit bus with 8 or 12GB LPDDR4 is a lot more likely. Plus, we're hearing that it's easy to port to. That could not be the case if it has less RAM.
Eh... Can we just get a Gamestream app instead? That would probably do more for sales than third-parties at this point honestly, especially if it's weak.
Yeah. I'm thinking it'll have A57 cores.
Roland1979
Junior Member
A slowly dying Nintendo (that's how it looks to me at least) is not something to be happy about.
So, there is only one console for you thats ps4? Can't see sony surviving on there own. Not counting pc. But it would bring back sony their sales they want.
Skittzo0413
Member
Restructuring doesn't mean dying. Hell, they've been profitable overall for the past 3 years despite the Wii U disaster. They have billions in cash, not counting assets.
What have they said or done lately to indicate that they are dying? How does ANYTHING you are hearing say to you that Nintendo is slowly dying?
But the problem now is that most western publishers don't see an audience for their games on Nintendo platforms, with said audience not being on Nintendo systems for a long time.
Roland1979
Junior Member
How did you come to PS4? And dying is not dead. What does PS4 have to do with this? I don't even have a PS4 also, so..?
That's true, they are very wealthy and may make money. But it looks like they keep losing market share and in the West, it looks like they keep losing popularity, even amongst fans. They might be far from dead but it does look to me like the end of the console manufacturing Nintendo has begun. And a handheld or mobile phone Nintendo is something a lot of people would see as a Nintendo that has lost, even if they would make a lot of money.
Indeed, and it's a big problem. Both an image problem and a problem of Nintendo's relations with a lot of 3rd party publishers in the past.
Schnozberry
Member
I think people base this entirely off of hardware sales, which ignores Nintendo's rather successful software and licensing business.
Skittzo0413
Member
Perhaps it's just wishful thinking on my part but it's very very obvious to me that the NX will be fixing the majority of their dedicated hardware problems:
-First, one of the main reasons the Wii U failed -which people often forget- is that Nintendo was focusing most of their development time on the 3DS which failed to sell nearly as well as they had hoped. The 3DS started selling quite a bit after that software came out but then the Wii U started sputtering because there was little in the way of software support after launch. So in essence the 3DS was one of the reasons the Wii U failed to sell.
One of the things we KNOW is that the NX will solve this problem because they have combined handheld and console divisions and made a conscious effort to make development between two devices much easier. This information came straight from Nintendo.
-Second, Nintendo has discussed several times that they do not like the console cycle which creates this situation of the consumer buying new hardware and then "starting from zero," library and install base wise. I believe it was Iwata who said that one of the main focuses of the NX is to set a single unified games platform going forward, such that every subsequent NX system (or SCD upgrade) will be backwards compatible with previous NX systems, and that publishers will feel confident releasing their games on new systems because they will likely be able to be compatible with previous systems. Forward and backward compatibility, essentially.
This is in stark contrast to how the Wii U works, and in stark contrast to how the Wii U to NX transition will work, unfortunately. Unless of course the "absorbing the Wii U architecture" means that they have a BC solution, which I doubt.
-Lastly, Nintendo has made it clear that they want the young guys (Splatoon garage-type teams) to start having greater input in not just the garage games, but the future hardware and overall direction of the company. This will likely revitalize some of their stagnating IPs judging by the success of Splatoon, and should be taken as an indication that Nintendo understands that some of their past decisions have been a bit old fashioned.
This all indicates to me that Nintendo is in a major period of restructure, and are focusing greatly on improving their dedicated hardware business, not at all backing away from it. You may get that idea from games like Federation Force and the new Paper Mario, but I see those games as essentially filler games that weren't considered important enough to be delayed to the next console. Again, that could be wishful thinking but I think it's clear that they have solved or are in the process of solving a great deal of their hardware problems.
Now none of this addresses third party support but that's a whole other animal which isn't necessarily that relevant to your point.
Theanine3D
Member
Nintendo consoles haven't been viable for this in a long time I'm afraid. Probably best you forget Nintendo even exists unless the only third party support you like is Japanese, in which case the NX handheld might be enough for you.
I used to be Nintendo-only but all it did was make me bitter and angry because I kept missing out on one great third party game after another. Eventually bought a PC and now I couldn't care less about whether Nintendo gets third party support or not. Every Wii U owner in my circle of friends eventually sucked it up and bought a PS4, even the most diehard of fanboys that had trashtalked Sony constantly at the start of the gen.
This is why I want the NX to be affordable (and if that means the specs must be weaker than PS4, so be it). A second console purchase is easy to justify if the price tag is relatively low. They can win over a lot of PS4, XBO, and especially PC owners this way.
I'm sort of in the same boat.
I was always a PS1/N64, PS2/GCN, PS3/Wii guy, but even though I have a PS4, I barely touch it. The best combination for my gaming needs has been Wii U / PC. I built a rig in January of 2015, and have never looked back. A Nintendo console coupled with PC is pretty much a perfect combination for anyone who isn't really tied to any console exclusives like Uncharted. Even Forza and GoW came to Windows, so I'm a happier man every day.
Meanwhile, this keeps me from being disappointed that my Wii U has been a sporadically-used exclusive machine.
Be realistic: NX was never going to replace whatever your current primary system is. Trying to enter with an expensive me-too system doesn't have a high chance of success, and if it fails, especially while being a loss leader, they'd be up the creek without a paddle and would end up in an even worse position. It would be okay at the start of a generation, but not in the middle.
Hcoregamer00
The 'H' stands for hentai.
To be fair, Wii U doing so terribly is what forced Nintendo to do what they should have done in a long time, which is to diversify its portfolio.
In the past it was Nintendo just doing games, manga and hardware, with everything else being ignored or underdeveloped. Now we see Nintendo branching out to Amiibo, mobile, anime, movies, merchandise, etc. This is the kind of thing that Nintendo should have been doing when it was making the Wii and DS buku bucks, but doing it now is better late than to never do it at all.
At least it shows Nintendo's flexibility and ability to deal with its situation. It goes to show that Nintendo will be around one form of another for a long time to come.
I could agree with you that starting in mid gen is really bad idea. But what other options do they have? Waiting until 2020 to release a new one. They could create something that could be upgraded, but even that mostly doesn't work to keep a console alive.
The only way their console could win in mid-gen, if they bring something new where everyone is waiting on.
Roland1979
Junior Member
You're probably right :-(
The crazy part is even having demands.
In Japan this is going to be comical, the base unit is already struggling to be anything more than the lukewarm corpse at a funeral for the dedicated home market (with much of its software being held equally afloat/viable by the Vita, a fleeting unit with no successor or long term staying power), and then asking developers to start Q&Aing for a unit that will not sell at all is just nonsense. No one will want to do such a stupid thing, its a waste of time and resources.
The ecosystem for Sony is a mess in Japan, and the Neo isn't going to make things better, it will just make them more complicated. If/when the Vita finally succumbs to the neglect its been put through, the ecosystem will be in complete tatters domestically.
This is akin to expecting Nintendo to "demand" people make an NX home/portable version of every piece of software. Hopefully, they aren't that stupid.
Theanine3D
Member
No innovation means Nintendo would be giving me no reason to buy their console. They don't release first party games often enough for "first party offerings" to be a sole selling point anymore. I'm not rich enough to buy a $300 machine just to play one game a year.
They need an innovative selling point for me to even have any interest. My PC already satisfies me in "traditional ways of playing" just fine. It even has innovations of its own to boot (VR).
Same. Especially now with JRPGs coming more and more to Steam.
It's still something they should've done during the height of Wii/DS to try and help maintain mindshare instead of letting it fall by the side, only to then try it when you've lost it.
Graphics Horse
Member
I would be surprised if that SCD patent materialises as a way to upgrade a console by adding extra parts, it sounds very 32x/sega cd. (to be fair I think the gameboy player was well recieved but didn't result in a more powerful system.)
If you are expecting a Wii u sized console with no optical drive that can be significantly enhanced / advanced a generation by adding extra hw, then the enhancement would likely be as big as the base console, is this really something people expect or even desire?
If you are expecting a Wii u sized console with no optical drive that can be significantly enhanced / advanced a generation by adding extra hw, then the enhancement would likely be as big as the base console, is this really something people expect or even desire?
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