TPM: Vitriol from Sanders' campaign coming from the top
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I believed it after his Planned Parenthood comments.
I would put money on him believing he is the revolution.
No down ticket support, no coalition building, and rally after rally....
eNut_ButteR
Banned
Do people have any understanding how reporting works? A well respected journalist has sources. they don't name their sources. This isn't video game journalism for crying out loud.
WhiteRabbitEXE
Member
So you don't know what you're talking about and you didn't even bother to skim the one page of the thread. Nice.
I've sort of given Bernard the benefit of the doubt up until the past month or so. I figured his campaign managers or other people were getting in his ear and bolstering him and feeding him the narrative that he's the only true progressive to save the country. But that opinion has fallen away and definitely been shredded in my mind the past few days. This is all Bernard and those in his campaign have actually been trying to tone him down. Sad.
So say this guy is lying because for some reason he's decided to die on this hill. Bernie isn't the source of the recent vehemently divisive and accusatory statements.
Is the reality then:
He is a puppet, repeating things imposed on him by nefarious forces in his own campaign?
He has the good sense to try to be less venemous, but is repeatedly being talked out of it by people closest to him
He doesn't have any idea how these things are perceived at large and none of his campaign staff has thought to tell him?
Aliens?
I get not wanting to believe accusations that your candidate is going scorched earth; I'm just not sure there is a better alternate explanation here. The things he's saying and statements he's releasing aren't in dispute; this is just somebody saying they've heard from people it's coming from X, as opposed to Y.
This is not the gaming side. Credible journalists citing unnamed sources =/= peddling unsubstantiated rumors.
Peter Ian Staker
Member
Holy crap this thread is a graveyard.
eNut_ButteR
Banned
I did, just not convinced. Besides, I've got no horse in this race. The election is such a nightmare horror show that trying to convince myself any candidate is worse than any other is really hard.
As long as Clinton doesn't win I'll deal with living with whatever power-hungry buffoon gets elected.
Uhhhh. That is not how having no horse in this race works.
Also Trump over Clinton? So hardcore right-wing SC justices who would take away LGBT rights and abortion rights for women over liberal SC justices Hillary would pick. Sounds awesome.
That must be nice.
Must be nice. Are you a straight white male?
markofhavoc
Member
eNut_ButteR
Banned
I don't consider hoping a horse loses as 'having a horse in a race'.
I don't really care who wins. I just want one not to win.
ClosingADoor
Member
Nice talking if it doesn't impact you that much. Kind of sad talk when you realize it will impact millions of people in the US.
He's not in the Bernie camp. He's in the "nothing in politics can possibly affect me and thus it doesn't matter" camp.
Aaronology
Member
To the people scoffing at this story, what's the alternative here? That the toxicity and negativity his campaign has resorted to is not coming from him? That he has no control over his campaign and has not been able to mold its tone or rein in his top people? Ok, fair enough. Yet we should have faith he is capable of being President of the United States?
Honestly I am not sure that's a better look.
Honestly I am not sure that's a better look.
WhiteRabbitEXE
Member
Unconvinced isn't accurate. You're either enormously ignorant, a conspiracy nut, or an idiot. Take your pick. FYI, you can choose more than one.
And if you think Trump is better than Hillary, well I guess we're going for D) All of the above, with a bonus point of "from a place of entitlement". Make America Great Again, amirite?
Please tell me, how is the hardcore right wing SC judges Trump has committed to put on the court better than the liberal ones Hillary is committed to putting on the court better? I am curious.
After that I am curious why you think Trumps insistence we need to kick out illegal immigrants and ban Muslims from coming to America is better than Hillarys live and let live side.
eNut_ButteR
Banned
Definitely not better. He's a clown. Hillary's negatives just stack much higher than either of the other candidates in my eyes.
ClosingADoor
Member
Hillary has more negatives then Trump? Please explain.
SomedayTheFire
Member
hmmm HMMMM
For example?
As an outsider, I thought he was the best man for the job when they started talking policies. Even if they can't get done, showing the politicians that the American people actually want something a bit more left then the usual democrat and might help some movements for that, even if it is several terms and presidents down the line.
If things like this are true, then fuck him. He never wanted change, he wanted to have power like so many before him.
If things like this are true, then fuck him. He never wanted change, he wanted to have power like so many before him.
Pai Pai Master
Banned
LOL why even bother discussing with someone who actively doesn't give a shit
eNut_ButteR
Banned
So many baits! And I dodge every one of them!
But yeah, undoubtedly Bernie is naive about the political landscape. Undoubtedly Trump is a clownish fascist.
But damn, the list of things Hillary has participated in that I absolutely abhor is so long I'd be on here all day trying to write them all up.
WhiteRabbitEXE
Member
I'm guessing we'll be seeing a bunch of vague bullshit with no substance until this poster disappears for some reason or another.
So you refuse to answer why you think right wing SC justices would be better than liberal ones?
ClosingADoor
Member
You can be here all day, yet you do not give any examples.
And you said she has more negatives then the other candidates, including Trump. How did you come to that conclusion?
SomedayTheFire
Member
confesses that trump is a fascist but hillary still has more negatives? son, you could not spin that if you tried.
markofhavoc
Member
Reddit lol
Not that anyone ever responds to that point anyway, but I feel like the most obvious counterpoint there is that if you can't trust Hillary as president then you're not going to trust whoever she picks for the SC. And, who knows, maybe Trump is lying about his conservative choices all along too!
I think most people thought/hoped that the Bern-or-Bust sentiment was coming from a subsection of overzealous supporters or campaign staffers, not down from the man himself.
j_k_redtail
Member
Yep. I think we're getting a better sense of the man's character at this point. Lost a lot of respect for the guy.
Alright Bernie. You've done what you could. It's not going to happen mate. But you've carved a bright path for future candidates to be more independent of the entrenched political power base.
There's like... a 10% chance that his overzealous tenacity in this situation could help Trump win the Whitehouse - if he drags it out long enough to make the democratic party appear weak and vacilitating.
The other 90% of me realizes that there'll be enough people united against Trump irrespective of what goes down with the democrats (given the known variables).
But man... it burns that we have such crappy presidential candidates this time around.
Like, we have the choice between different sorts of stools. Hilary is the even smooth stool, Trump is Diarreah, and Sanders is the hard round pellets.
There's like... a 10% chance that his overzealous tenacity in this situation could help Trump win the Whitehouse - if he drags it out long enough to make the democratic party appear weak and vacilitating.
The other 90% of me realizes that there'll be enough people united against Trump irrespective of what goes down with the democrats (given the known variables).
But man... it burns that we have such crappy presidential candidates this time around.
Like, we have the choice between different sorts of stools. Hilary is the even smooth stool, Trump is Diarreah, and Sanders is the hard round pellets.
The anti-Hillary liberals who demand you cant trust her say the same about Bill that he is j just as "owned" by corporations and the like. And he named GINSBURG to the court. So that has no basis in reality.
Well if your goal is President Trump then sure.
You mean when he condemned the violence and feels he got snubbed?
http://www.wired.com/2016/05/sanders-condemns-nevada-violence-states-democratic-party/
What's not going to happen? He's still running for leverage at the convention in order to push his agendas. I don't see why that's not going to happen or why it shouldn't.
So the idea wasn't that Bernie was a sore, egotistical loser, he was just an incompetent candidate, incapable of controlling his own campaign.
Cool.
The goal is still the revolution. Gotta burn this mother down.
ClosingADoor
Member
You know what can help you make those changes? Work with and get someone elected who might at least be open to some of it. Not burning all your bridges and then disappearing like he will now.
What kind of revolution are we talking here? Because last time I checked, the country was a democracy and most people are voting for Hillary there.
gutter_trash
Banned
What about those who aren't well off enough to withstand a revolution that involves letting Trump win? Black people, LGBT, and so on. They NEED Republicans out of power for their daily well-being.
Around for years, you say? That sounds like PART OF THE CONSPIRACY to me!
Not pointing fingers at anyone in this thread, but I think part of the reason it's been hard to talk some of the Berners down is that they have zero trust in any of the existing progressive infrastructure that exists. Josh Marshall reported on something? Well who the fuck is that?
I've supported Hillary the whole election basically on electability and efficacy grounds, but I appreciated what Bernie was doing as an investment in future progressivism and found him to easily be the more likable of the two candidates. At some point though, he drank his own Kool-Aid, convinced himself his fabled revolution was actually at hand, and he hasn't coped well at all as that's failed to materialize. Trying to write off black voters in the South, making reasonable arguments against closed primaries while hypocritically ignoring what those same arguments should mean for all of his caucus wins. Hell, for all his arguments against superdelegates from earlier on, they're the only reason he's still viable. He can only win if superdelegates go more heavily for him than actual voters did, exactly the same situation he was worried about Hillary taking advantage of earlier. Without the superdelegates he'd already be mathematically eliminated. His petulance in defeat has really soured me on him as a person and a leader.
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