ClosingADoor
Member
Of course. And then you have to go by the reputation of the outlet and journalist in question. But that all isn't strange and doesn't automatically make something a hit piece.
TPM: Vitriol from Sanders' campaign coming from the top
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Naming your sources completely defeats the purpose of having sources, like say goodbye to your career as a political journalist.
secondspace
Member
No quotes on the internet is untrustworthy to me, especially when it's something as inflammatory as this.
Real talk. Fuck Bernie, 100%. In it for himself and his ego, even if that means helping Trump. He has no honor and poses a threat to actuating tangible progress to the issues he supposedly cares so deeply about. He's a fraud. And the time for treating him with kid gloves is over. This is a process that legitimately nominated Barack fucking Obama. He's trying to entirely discredit and burn down the fucking party just because he lost. He's a fucking clown.
secondspace
Member
I don't have a horse in this race beyond hoping we don't end up with a shady reality TV star as leader of the free world, I'm in the UK.
Henry Jones Jr
Member
I know that, my only point with that was that it is more trustworthy if you know where it is coming from and that this person would actually have the access to know these things.
My larger point was the no quote thing. If you had a good source directly tell you "The hate is coming from Bernie himself" you would put that in quotes because that would be HUGE and damming even if you can't name them.
QuantumZebra
Member
Because they're written by people who think they are smarter than everyone else
When in reality they are completely deluded
Don't worry - your opinion is shared by every sane American.
Bernie somehow leading to a Trump victory is a meme. Maybe try talking to Bernie supporters instead of making disingenuous assertions.
Bel Marduk
Banned
Wow.
Every day with a thread like this.
Hillary Clinton's general election opponent is openly racist and incites violence from his supporters -- and yet its Sanders and his supporters who get daily vituperation here.
I've voted for Democrats in each and every election (including school board) since I have turned 18 but the behavior of Hillary Clinton's supporters on this forum makes me seriously consider only voting on downticket races in November.
This is almost as ridiculous as Clinton supporters telling me in 2008 that I had "internalized homophobia" for being gay and an Obama volunteer.
Every day with a thread like this.
Hillary Clinton's general election opponent is openly racist and incites violence from his supporters -- and yet its Sanders and his supporters who get daily vituperation here.
I've voted for Democrats in each and every election (including school board) since I have turned 18 but the behavior of Hillary Clinton's supporters on this forum makes me seriously consider only voting on downticket races in November.
This is almost as ridiculous as Clinton supporters telling me in 2008 that I had "internalized homophobia" for being gay and an Obama volunteer.
Marshall is right. And more importantly history is ripe with this sort of infighting withing left populist politics that lead to facist right wing minorities taking power.
The left needs to dig deep and see the forest, not the trees. Infighting over a 4% difference is insane when the alternative to coming together is someone you don't agree with 99% time winning. Wake the fuck up and stop acting like spoiled children.
The left needs to dig deep and see the forest, not the trees. Infighting over a 4% difference is insane when the alternative to coming together is someone you don't agree with 99% time winning. Wake the fuck up and stop acting like spoiled children.
This article's claim isn't far fetched at all. It's literally saying that Sanders is in control of his own campaign's message.
Most people assumed this to be true; the journalist's source just confirmed it.
secondspace
Member
No, it's time to stop tarring all Bernie supporters as the bad guys. Especially if you expect them to vote for Hilary.
Yeah, because this forum just never talks about Trump, am I right?
Bernie Sanders does something shitty, gets called out on it, and then we can expect the usual suspects to crawl out of the woodwork to go "oh woe is me."
Sanders' delegates are doxxing and sending death threats but you're the persecuted one?
I'm told it was worse in '08. If so, I don't know if I could survive. I'm half tempted to avoid the off topic section so I don't get sucked into threads like these.
This, the left can't afford a Tea Party. Not with the way the country is now.
I'm not tarring all Bernie supporters. But I am going to tar Bernie if he keeps enabling the worst of his Bernie bros.
It's a thread based on a prominent journalist's information.
We're discussing it. And if you really are a Democrat, then I don't understand how you can condone what he's doing at this point, and it absolutely is creating a rift in the party when there shouldn't be one.
UnemployedVillain
Member
Dude, take a breather or something. You're sounding crazy. Trump gets called out on every stupid shitty thing he says and voting based on a candidate's supporters is ludicrous
This basically. In every democrat thread I see Bernie supporters being mocked for a variety of reasons, but a big one being used is someone's first election. Apparently the fact that people are unhappy with the way the government is operating is a bad reason to get involved with the process. It's weird though bc gaf is one of the few, if not the only overwhelmingly pro-Hillary forum out there.
When you and your fellow supporters are accused of killing the party on a weekly basis it gets kinda annoying after awhile.
Ziltoidia 9
Member
No, but based on how this was written as basically an opinion piece, this is the writers' gut feeling.
Well he isn't helping it.
Dash_Riprock
Member
Bernie supporters weren't going to vote for Hillary regardless.
Maybe try having some sense? I never said ONE WORD ABOUT HIS SUPPORTERS. I was talking about BERNIE. Every single day needless day spent dealing with Bernie and his ego is another day where the Clinton campaign is letting Trump skate by. And feeding this false narrative to his supporters and setting them up to feel like these systems are inherently corrupt (when they're fucking not) is damaging.
These insinuations that everyone but him is some establishment shill and that he's some paragon of virtue, isn't exactly helping her.
And this idea that Clinton needs to make some play for Sanders supporters needs to go away. Frankly, I don't even give two shits if you vote for her anyone. Why should she have to bow down, kiss your feet, and give you bellyrubs or something? You spend months attacking her with every name in the book and then YOU need to be won over? Nah, fam. That's not how this works. How is this even a choice? Go vote for Trump if y'all are that butthurt. That's not you personally, btw. That's just this mentality in general.
And finally, Josh Marshall is a fucking solid journalist! These are facts. Look it up. This goes back to the Bush years. I hope people realize that TPM has legit been one of the best sources for good political journalism for probably a decade now.
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
You do realize how dumb that statement is right?
Bel Marduk
Banned
What was this shitty thing that Sanders supposedly did? There are no sources listed in this article.
I absolutely was planning on it.
Sanders is calling attention to progressive issues and getting way more attention and press than any way he otherwise could.
So almost half the people that voted in the Dem primary aren't going to vote for their nominee?
benicillin
Banned
Some Bernie supporters maybe, but they're a minority of a minority. Most will, myself included.
I know his is anecdotal, but I've seen plenty of people get involved with politics that never gave a shit before.
legacyzero
Banned
Stop.
It would be way easier for tgem is she didnt insult their intelegence.
And of course, its hard for a Bernie supporter to be in threads like these because of the treatment they get.
Maybe try helping Bernie supporters understand why thats important instead of hitting them with snark, passive aggressive, and condescending comments?
Yeah, if true, it's pretty unfortunate Sanders has gone this route.
A guy who originally joined the race simply to move the party on issues he was passionate about and raise awareness of them, which he has done beyond all expectations, has let that success go to his head in a bizzare way.
At least there will probably be an interesting documentary to come out of all this.
Wow. I will definitely vote for Hilary.
secondspace
Member
This attitude comes across as crazily counterproductive to me, you want to get them behind the party in the election, not write them off now.
The demonization of Bernie supporters is so off-putting it's why I don't participate in the discussions regarding these two sides here. I step into a thread and read some posts thinking about jumping in and pretty quickly NOPE the heck out.
Please give the other half of the Democratic party a little credit.
Let's just ignore the entire point of the thread because there's no way Saint Bernard could ever do wrong.
Clearly the actions and words of his campaign staff and state delegates are only a result of his incompetent leadership and are unrelated to any ill-intent on Bernie's part.
The issue is, he seems to have convinced all of his supporters that people who support Hillary support oppressive, rigged, and inherently corrupt politics.
So how exactly are we supposed to do that? You show up in every thread with some kind of persecution complex... Yet, there are plenty of people explaining exactly why voting for Hillary is exactly what you should do if you support any of the bullet points of his campaign. You simply choose to ignore it, as unfortunately most Sanders supporters will. And he is responsible for creating the rift in the Democratic party with the divisive bullshit he's been spewing the entire campaign.
Laieon
Member
I get the same impression from Hillary. I'll still vote for her over Trump though, I just don't think she's all that charismatic.
Would rather see Bernie than her, but according to that isidewith website I agree with Bernie 85% of the time, Hillary 80%, and Trump 45%, so I wouldn't be all that disappointed if (and at this point, when) she's officially declared the nominee.
If you've had the conviction to vote in every single election you've been able to, then you shouldn't let some people making icy one-liners on a gaming forum get to you. This is an election that will majorly impact the rest of your life, and possibly the lives of your children and grandchildren as well. You know you shouldn't throw that away.
If Trump tanks relations with Russia and kicks off nuclear WW3?
If Trump regresses international progress on global warming, permanently crippling the planet, wiping out numerous species, and leaving your grandchildren to suffer through the consequences?
If Trump appoints conservative Supreme Court Justices, ensuring that all progress on minority rights / women's rights / LGBT rights / campaign finance reform / Wall Street regulation / universal healthcare / immigration reform and a hundred other issues is halted or regressed for the next 30 years of your life?
Are those risks you're willing to take to stick it to a couple sassy posters on NeoGAF? I know you know the answer.
Bernie hasn't helped Trump at all. People already feel the system is corrupt, Bernie didn't create that. Citizens United is proof of it. Unless you somehow believe that millions of dollars going to candidates has a 0% affect on them.
The cognitive dissidence I've seen form people regarding money in politics this cycle is maddening.
Delusion is a powerful feeling.
Absoludacrous
Member
While his statement is ludicrous in the broad brush that it paints, what I'm assuming he means is that there isn't a need to "court" Bernie supporters.
The ones that would vote for Hillary have enough information that they should already know what they're doing in November. They want a progressive Supreme Court Justice, and they don't want Trump to burn everything to the ground. There's not much for them to decide, and forum posts on a video game message board shouldn't be doing much to change their political opinions.
Those that want people to "be nice to them" or they'll turn to Trump aren't worth stressing over, because they will either vote for Trump anyway or have no intention of voting at all. The idea that the tone of a thread on NeoGaf is going to sway their political opinions isn't one that should be taken seriously.
And yet, Hillary has promised to overturn it... Speaking of cognitive dissonance.
See, I used to believe this as well... Until he started his crusade against Hillary and the DNC.
Now, I think he's full of shit and he wants the presidency at all costs.
Explain to me how pushing a progressive agenda is accomplished by bashing the Democratic nominee for POTUS and throwing the party under the bus all of the time?
Cesare Borgia
Banned
First off I wouldn't question Marshall. But I've heard for quite some time that Weaver, Jane Sanders, and some other Sanders aides have gotten us where we are today and it's too late to turn back. Sanders didn't expect to get this far and while I have not heard anything about vitriol flowing from him directly, he has done absolutely nothing to calm things down. The entire premise of his campaign is that the system is corrupt, and the system includes the democrat party. Fears over an ugly convention is genuine, and I'm starting to wonder how the Clinton camp is going to punish him.
I've also heard there is very little direct contact between the Clinton and Sanders camps now. And while Obama is impatient I haven't heard that he's going to jump into this and endorse anyone. After California when Hillary presumably clenches though? He'll be off the sidelines very quickly.
I've also heard there is very little direct contact between the Clinton and Sanders camps now. And while Obama is impatient I haven't heard that he's going to jump into this and endorse anyone. After California when Hillary presumably clenches though? He'll be off the sidelines very quickly.
Why are we ignoring the fact that people on this forum have called Hillary a bitch, a cunt, a republican, a murderer and more?
I mean, I get it - Poligaf is very pro-Hilary. Partly because for most of them they went through this in 2008, fighting *against* Clinton, and now they think she'd be the best person to follow Obama. But if we're going to say that Bernie supporters get vilified on this forum let's not forget the extreme vitriol we've seen towards Hillary that the mods had to clean up repeatedly.
I mean, I get it - Poligaf is very pro-Hilary. Partly because for most of them they went through this in 2008, fighting *against* Clinton, and now they think she'd be the best person to follow Obama. But if we're going to say that Bernie supporters get vilified on this forum let's not forget the extreme vitriol we've seen towards Hillary that the mods had to clean up repeatedly.
Karsticles
Member
How many people posting here now do you think were posting here 8 years ago?
You really just don't understand what I'm saying....... Who are these people? You? A system that elected Barack Obama as the 44th President of these United States is corrupt? There are generally two ways to bow out of a nomination process. Look at the GOP candidates like a Ted Cruz, for example. He could have kept fighting and clawing for every last delegate till the very end. He could have kept going. But he didn't. Because he knew he had no real path to the nomination and keeping up the fight would just be wounding his party's nominee heading into the general.
And then you also have Hillary herself in 08 during that CLOSER and highly contested primary. She fought until the very end because she was super close, but she never threatened to burn down the party because she didn't win. She immediately threw her support behind Obama and in the end, ultimately became the biggest support of his policies.
Bernie isn't doing ANY of that. By going hard at Hillary and the DNC even with zero path to the nomination, he's actively burning the whole thing down, poisoning the well among many of his supporters and threatening the very real progress that many worked hard to achieve. THAT is what's helping Trump. That's 1000% truth. And feeding this idea that Hillary fucking Clinton is not a truly great candidate herself and is supposedly just some corporate shill (even though they voted similarly in progress 90% of the time!!!!) IS playing into Trump's tiny hands at this point.
There's simply too much at stake for too many fucking people to let Trump and the GOP get back into the oval office. Bernie, please let the adults get down to working for November and just go away to Vermont after you lose in CA/NJ in June.
She still received money from special interest and corporations just like every other politician. She is not above the influence of money.
I hate the fact Bernie gets money from unions too, but that is a lesser evil to me.
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