To be fair, if you only can afford / want ONE console, betting on Nintendo has been a pretty bad idea since the N64 era...
And I learned this the hard way. Since then, Nintendo consoles have not been my primary consoles.
Emily Rogers: NX Not Using x86 Architecture - Won't Blow Away Current Gen Consoles
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To be fair, if you only can afford / want ONE console, betting on Nintendo has been a pretty bad idea since the N64 era...
And I learned this the hard way. Since then, Nintendo consoles have not been my primary consoles.
Skittzo0413
Member
I agree with both of you, diversifying is what they should've been doing with their mounds of cash from the Wii and DS successes. It's what smart businesses do, but for whatever reason Nintendo was too conservative at the time to follow through on that.
The poster I was responding to though was specifically saying that he believes Nintendo's dedicated hardware business is slowly dying, and I countered with examples of Nintendo focusing harder than ever on improving their dedicated hardware business, which sorta shows that it isn't dying.
I don't think anyone who knows how Nintendo works thinks they as a company is going anywhere any time soon. In some form they will be around for a long, long time.
LegendofLex
Member
Not going down with the sinking ship that is the rest of the (console) industry?
The increasing consolidation of revenues among products targeted at the needs of the most demanding consumers is the textbook symptom for an industry in the process of being disrupted.
Hcoregamer00
The 'H' stands for hentai.
I agree, and I said as much.
Broadening and diversifying their portfolio will keep the Nintendo brand relevant. Even when the Wii/DS started to wax and wane, if they had merchandise or anime production to keep the brands front and center would have helped ease the transition. If people saw a 26 episode Paper Mario anime in the interim, they would be more likely to buy a future Paper Mario game, and all the associated merchandise that comes with it.
People kind of forget that a huge reason why Pokemon is a huge seller is because there is a currently running anime and because it is a merchandizing giant.
One game a year? You must have some very limited taste in games then. By first party, i assume you just mean exclusives (hence also 2nd/3rd party)? I think i can list about 20 or more interesting WiiU exclusives.
Frankly if the purpose of the SCD is improve system capabilities, they are better off just releasing a new unit ala the Neo, rather than trying some Frankenstein creation. Just seems like it would be a headache to properly utilize.
Skittzo0413
Member
If you could turn your PS4 into a NEO by buying a $99 box which plugs into your PS4, wouldn't you rather buy that than buy a new $499 box and sell your old PS4? Isn't it a much more attractive value proposition?
Edit: I think at most they could do 1 SCD upgrade per 2 "traditional" generations (I say "traditional" because I think generation numbers as we know them are going to get a lot more confusing) so say, 1 SCD upgrade every 10 years. That way, NX1 can be guaranteed to play all Nintendo games for 10 years, and 5 years in, if you want a graphics boost you can buy SCD1.
Then after 10 years, NX2 comes out, and 5 years after that is out you can buy SCD2 to boost those graphics. At least that's the general idea I see. It means consumers have to spend less for upgrades, and don't have to ditch their old consoles within 5 years to get the newest games.
krizalidzero
Member
Because the whole "Nintendo doesn't care for powerful hardware" thing is BS. They only released 2 weak consoles, but every other Nintendo home console was a powerhouse in their time.
Plus, the only reason the Wii U wasn't powerful is because they thought they'd get the same results the Wii did, which now they know DOESN'T WORK and you'd think they learned their lesson.
That said, "not x86" says nothing but "not as easy to develop for as the rest", and that has nothing to do with power.
Essentially - the Wii U lacked games. But here is the thing, the Wii U's biggest problem wasn't the lack of software - Sony's PS4 had the same issue. The problem is that the entire concept, the actual hardware, the name - all unappealing factors in the market. the 3DS didn't affect any of that - it was poor decision making and one of the worst marketing jobs I've seen any company do.
Software droughts from Nintendo will and/or should be fixed due to this, and the fact they decided not to push it out this holiday just to hit sales knowing there would be months of nothing until the next game.
They did compare some of their outlook to Apple, but we don't actually know that is what they are going to do. It's all speculative at this point. All they have said is that over the years, the mentality of starting over again has always been a challenge.
This is in stark contrast to how ANY home console has ever worked. Some offered last gen BC, but you often coiuld not carry digital purchases over and besides Nintendo, BC never worked for the whole backlog (save early PS3's).
Until it actually happens, we can't be sure that it will. One thing is for certain - if that is the future they want, they likely will NOT include BC for Wii U, because they would have to eat costs to put a Wii U inside the new system. Instead, they'd want a new setup so while the NX is resetting things one last time, it could provide a brighter future where you can be confident in knowing purchases on it moving forward stay forever relevant. Just like on PC.
They haven't said they wanted their input on hardware. Just that they were going to allow more creative freedom. Hardware was likely decided before Iwata passed and Splatoon even released.
Nintendo has definitely not moved away from hardware, or indicated they will. Rather they are trying to expand their IP and business reach to not be solely dependent upon top selling hardware platforms, that way they can continue to release hardware even if it's not the most popular gaming item on the market. Start releasing movies where yes, some people will see the movies who never intend to buy the games, or get some games on phones and recognize the shift in the mobile market - get some theme parks rids and attractions going, more merchandise and toys, yada yada.
Health too, whatever they are doing there. Nintendo is restructuring and branching out to cause long term business growth with heavy short term investments. NX is still part of this - arguably it's at the center. They are just redefining what their future hardware is. It's entirely possible the NX's gimmick isn't that they have some super funky controller, but that they are offering an ever upgradable living room PC type unit where everything stays compatiable, with notable enhancements when you upgrade to the latest version of NX.
In this way, NX can release at Xbox One levels and not be a huge deal, as a new NX would be releasing by the time the rest are ready, and the key advantage is that Nintendo set things up to not make you feel like you need to upgrade today or tomorrow, but if you do you know you maintaine verything. It's seemless, just like upgrading a phone in the same brand line.
But, this is still all speculative. We don't actually know.
That is an attractive scenario, I just doubt the feasibility of such a method. Developers can't even handle SLI and Crossfire on PC, I don't understand how they would manage some extra add-on that is supposed to augment a systems power. A RAM upgrade is one thing, additional GPU/CPU power is another. Now of course we have external GPU solutions for laptops that completely replace the processing power of the integrated GPU, but that is a different proposition I think because you would need something quite expensive if it is replacing rather than adding to the existing processing power.
I'm certainly no expert though, so maybe someone can help here.
This entire post more or less agrees with me. If they went the power route, it would only make sense to go for something around 50% better than PS4 for $350, using off-the-shelf components to keep the price down and let it drop quickly. Otherwise, they have to embrace the spot as a secondary console while offering something unique.
Theanine3D
Member
I only buy Nintendo consoles for first party games. So yes, there were years in Wii U's life where only 1 or 2 games appealed to me. I already get indie games on PC.
And I find it interesting that you somehow assumed the bolded part, despite me literally saying that my tastes in games are so diverse that Nintendo consoles are not enough alone to satisfy me. I can't get competitive online FPS and JRPGs on Nintendo (home) consoles in large numbers (no, only one of these per console gen is not enough). Nintendo stopped publishing FPS on consoles after the N64, and the only console JRPG series I liked from them has now been Sticker Star'd.
Note that a lot of these complaints don't apply to their handheld business. I love my 3DS, and I actually own MORE third party games for it than first party ones. And I fully expect to enjoy the NX handheld, assuming 3DS's third party support transitions to it too.
I'm with you. I think people are playing up the SCD idea too much. Just because Nintendo patented it doesn't mean that it will work as they envision. I imagine there are a lot of technical challenges associate with it, and it won't be capable of giving a big performance boost.
Skittzo0413
Member
Well, we don't know if all of these things will actually factor into the NX when it's released as a product, but we do know for sure that these are things Nintendo is focusing on simply because they've said as much.
The poster I was responding to was saying he sees the death of Nintendo's dedicated hardware business, and my main point was that, if we take Nintendo at their word, they are working hard to actually fix many of the problems that exist with their previous dedicated hardware, which shouldn't lead one to the conclusion that their dedicated hardware business is dying.
Oh I definitely agree there. They patented that method, so hopefully they've figured out a good way of implementing it but I agree that it does depend on the effectiveness of the technology. I was just addressing the concept as a whole.
Graphics Horse
Member
Not an expert either but I can't imagine it not needing a second power supply and its own cooling system, even the simple psvr breakout box has those and I expect that'll be removed from the Neo equation, but that's another topic.
In that case i find it highly illogical that you are "complaining" that there aren't enough 1st party games on Nintendo consoles to satisfy your needs and warrant a console purchase... but on the other hand you automatically dismiss a slew of superb exclussive games, made by 3rd parties. Such as Wonderful 101, Bayonetta 2, ZombiU... purely because they aren't 1st party games. Had the same games been made by Nintendo... then you would have bought them? I mean, whatever floats your boat but to me this makes zero sense.
Astral Dog
Member
agree, some people say the Wii U problems started and ended with "low quality" games, but it was far more than that, some of the major issues are ridiculously easy to spot and fix for the next hardware so hopefully Nintendo knows how to stay on track.
Luschient
Member
I think their "gimmick" should be a fully robust Virtual Console that has every first-party Nintendo game available at launch.
All are comparable with the Pro controller (which the console should be bundled with) but then they could release wireless versions of their old controllers to give you the "original experience" of playing those older games. They already did this w/ the GC controller for Smash U, just do the same for NES, SNES, and N64.
All are comparable with the Pro controller (which the console should be bundled with) but then they could release wireless versions of their old controllers to give you the "original experience" of playing those older games. They already did this w/ the GC controller for Smash U, just do the same for NES, SNES, and N64.
Unless you mainly play Nintendo games. Then it's wonderful. But I take your meaning nonetheless. ☺
I don't think Wii U started with low quality games. I think they started with games people didn't want to pay $350 for. A mini-game collection and a 2D platformer that you just put out an entry for 4 months prior is not a great way to sell a $350 system. And honestly? The mini-game collection was arguably more core-oriented than the platformer.
MAYBE if Wii U started with Mario Maker, we'd say something different. But as Nintendo showed over the course of the DS' lifespan, and the Wii U's lifespan, while dual-screens is an interesting idea, they themselves were not the ones who really understood it or maximized its' potential.
MatrixMan.EXE
Member
This goes without saying though. Neo is clearly being positioned for VR and AAA games. How many Japanese developers are even making high end console games anymore? Neo's presence isn't going to suddenly mean a cut off of Japanese support either, which is what AniHawk seemed to have been suggesting. That's just as comical.
cartman414
Member
Not sure how this all started, but there will always be an audience for the relative plug-and-play-ness of the console.
If they don't want to make 3rd party easier, I guess.
Theanine3D
Member
I actually bought all 3 of those, the first two for full price. Zombi U ended up being ported to other platforms later, so it's not technically exclusive. As for the other two I view Wonderful 101 and Bayonetta 2 in the same way I view first party games, since they were fully funded and published by Nintendo.
Bayonetta 2 and W101 are just two games. They were superb, I agree. But I wouldn't call two games a "slew." That one LEGO game comes to mind but it doesn't appeal to me personally.
Anyway, my point is that Nintendo can't count on third parties being there for NX, so they have to fulfill a need or want that isn't already being fulfilled by the platforms everyone already owns. Except for the tiny minority of Nintendo-only folk out there, most people already have another platform to play third party games on. Having awesome specs isn't going to convince anyone to abandon the software ecosystem they're already entrenched in - not this late into the console generation. So Nintendo needs an innovative new feature of the hardware to differentiate itself, now more than ever.
Seems qol is still on the table:
https://mynintendonews.com/2016/05/18/nintendo-outlines-the-companys-new-purpose/
https://mynintendonews.com/2016/05/18/nintendo-outlines-the-companys-new-purpose/
I totally get what you're saying, about 3rd party support. And i'm glad to see you actually DID buy/play 3rd party games. That was what i found baffling, if you were to dismiss games based on... origin (lol).
But you can't seriously say, if you played at least those two games, that you could only play 1 game per year on WiiU?
Not sure why you're posting that here unless you think that's what NX might be
Really not nx related, I think
Don't wanted to create a new thread for it and just came across it while checking for nx info. Because we are talking about new product nx from nintendo, I thought maybe it would be interested for some to know what Nintendo is doing else. Maybe they could make it related someday, but probably not.
Graphics Horse
Member
There was already a thread for that news today
geordiemp
Member
Sorry but your in fantasy land, Pc's cant get 2 GPU's working and SLI, you think Nintendo can do what Nvidia and AMD struggle with lol.
They will be hiding GPU's in power supplies next like Misterxmedia...
If there is stronger CPU + GPU, there will be a new board..which has on all the expensive components imo. There are something you could reuse like power supply, disk, modem, box and the like, but most of the value is the main board.
Maybe the SCD is a slot in GPU card....cant see it though, but there will be no $ 99 plug in box boosting power
I'd like that a lot, as a feature, and based in cimments Nintendo has made I expect Wii U VC to be folded into NX (hopefully all available day one, but that might be wishful thinking--though a third console GC drip-feed seems a bit ridiculous), but I don't think that in and of itself is at all enough of a gimmick per se to hook loads of consumers with. VC itself is woefully under-appreciated and I don't think it's continued presence alone will significantly draw in buyers.
I'm not sure that's necessarily the case. In fact, if the gimmick is not cross-play and/or related controller functionality between HH and console, I think the two are more likely to have tow different gimmicks.
No need to act condescending. Nintendo patented that shit. Not him.
Nintendo isn't going to make two completely separate ways to play a game. That'd just mean 2 versions of the same game again, something they want to avoid.
Silent_Ocarina
Member
You know, I'm part of the "third-party" conundrum. People joke about not owning only a Nintendo console, but I have for years. Even if I eventually acquired a PlayStation from a friend throughout the generations, I barely ever played on it. I just don't play those usual AAA games. I've never played Assassin's Creed, Call of Duty, Grand Theft Auto, or Metal Gear Solid (unless you count Revengeance). I'm perfectly happy with having Nintendo as my primary, and in many cases, only console.
I get that idea is foreign to most people. They can't imagine anyone enjoying gaming without playing the other companies' offerings. I was given a PS4 as a gift, and since then have only been exposed to the Uncharted series and Infamous Second Son. Both series were fun; I had a great time with them, but they're not something I would buy a console for. I have a gaming PC, and even then, I don't buy a lot of those AAA games, if any. It's used mostly for League of Legends, MMOs, and the occasional Steam game like Rocket League or as previously mentioned, Metal Gear Rising. I will say sales helped my Steam library immensely, and the only reason I even bought Second Son was because it was $20. If it had been $60 like most Nintendo games, I wouldn't have gotten it. It's the reason I don't have Uncharted 4 even though I kinda do want to play it. Only Nintendo has been able to get me to drop $60 on games at launch. It's just my weird tastes, though, I'm not saying other games aren't as good. The only third party games I have an interest in are the two Final Fantasies and Kingdom Hearts 3. If they come to NX, great, I'll get them, but I still can't see myself buying the Call of Duties, Grand Theft Autos, Assassin's Creeds, etc, on NX or any other console. I'm one of those fabled "only plays Nintendo games" you heard about, I guess. I was embarrassed to say that in the past because an idea like that seems laughable to most people on NeoGAF.
I get that idea is foreign to most people. They can't imagine anyone enjoying gaming without playing the other companies' offerings. I was given a PS4 as a gift, and since then have only been exposed to the Uncharted series and Infamous Second Son. Both series were fun; I had a great time with them, but they're not something I would buy a console for. I have a gaming PC, and even then, I don't buy a lot of those AAA games, if any. It's used mostly for League of Legends, MMOs, and the occasional Steam game like Rocket League or as previously mentioned, Metal Gear Rising. I will say sales helped my Steam library immensely, and the only reason I even bought Second Son was because it was $20. If it had been $60 like most Nintendo games, I wouldn't have gotten it. It's the reason I don't have Uncharted 4 even though I kinda do want to play it. Only Nintendo has been able to get me to drop $60 on games at launch. It's just my weird tastes, though, I'm not saying other games aren't as good. The only third party games I have an interest in are the two Final Fantasies and Kingdom Hearts 3. If they come to NX, great, I'll get them, but I still can't see myself buying the Call of Duties, Grand Theft Autos, Assassin's Creeds, etc, on NX or any other console. I'm one of those fabled "only plays Nintendo games" you heard about, I guess. I was embarrassed to say that in the past because an idea like that seems laughable to most people on NeoGAF.
SuperLeviathan
Member
That's assuming that those games are all equally desirable. If everyone agreed on that about W101, it would have sold better.
geordiemp
Member
Did not mean to, I apologise. The SCD stuff reads like the QOL, its babble with no explanation of how it could be done, its kinda annoying.
The only plug in add on that could be done that would make a noticeable difference in power is like plugging in a new CPU and / or GPU card - and I cant for the life of me see how anyone could patent that lol. Myabe thats what SCD is and they had to make it vague, but you could never patent a plug in GPU card as its been done a million times.
So I would take any bet that we never see a magical terraflops improving SCD...
http://www.notebookreview.com/howto/how-to-upgrade-your-notebook-with-an-external-graphics-card/
The above goes on about external graphics cards, which has been around for 10 years now. Thats all thats possible at the moment using thunderbolt connectors. Would not be surprised if the patent is just the same with a proprietary connector.
Who said July 14 was a Direct day?
He must thinking about that E3 misprint, which is just the Treehouse showing of Zelda.
Unless sony is going out of their way to have games neo optimized, which would help pc gamers, I don't see it being utilized all that much myself.
The picture is real, but it's an error.
My point was more on the fact that Neo configurations are forced, and are non-zero effort required due to the various mandates Sony has put in place (and apparent changes in uarch which is going to fuck with dependencies depending on the APIs). So whether or not anyone is making games that will need that hardware or even come close to it, Sony is still 100% requiring ALL games ship with Neo mode.
This, I believe is where ani and others are coming from when they question the current steps.
Given architectural differences, and seemingly a noticeably better CPU, the NX would have likely been able to hit at the belt with PS4 when all was said and done, especially with Nintendo's core IP. But I don't think Sony did Neo out of a fear of losing "strongest machine" because even if the NX were the Gamecube of its era, Sony could still quote random ass BS to have bigger numbers like FLOPS. They did it for VR to not have PSVR be completely eclipsed by the Oculus and the Vive (the latter of which has a lot of good WoM), push UHD BluRay or services, and simply get original owners to give them more money.
LegendofLex
Member
PS Neo isn't about countering things power-wise.
It's about staving off the effects of the inevitable price drops and keeping the ASP for PS4 as high as possible.
It's similar to Apple doing iPhone hardware refreshes every year. It's largely to drive volume as people upgrade to the latest models, but the big advantage is that they keep the selling price for iPhones high, which keeps the brand value high.
Ah, June 14. The picture is real but it was a mistake.
NOLA_Gaffer
Banned
I could have posted this practically word for word, and I agree completely, though I don't even do the PC Gaming thing.
I've never owned a Playstation console (though I do have a PSP) and the only Xbox console I've ever owned was an Xbox 360. Otherwise it's just been Nintendo products for the last decade for me. The Wii/DS combo and now Wii U/3DS combo offers more games than I could possibly have time to play.
And yeah, I gave Assassin's Creed it's fair shake, twice even. Both times I found it pretty dull and medicore, and I doubt I'll ever buy a game in that franchise ever again.
I gave Call of Duty a shot with Black Ops 2 on my Wii U. It's blatant jingoism and over-the-top violence turned me off very quickly, and it doesn't help that multiplayer was a really bad time.
Never bothered with Grand Theft Auto at all. Like with Call of Duty, over the top violence just isn't my scene and as such I've never been interested in any of those titles.
But please don't label me a Nintendo Fanboy, because I'm anything but. Just because I prefer the types of software Nintendo tends to publish doesn't mean I automatically dislike everything else. Enjoy your games and let me enjoy mine, that's all I ask. Unfortunately these days that's easier said than done for a lot of folks.
Just talking as a consumer here, we'll have a flurry of under-utilized hardware at a premium price. Should bode well for Sony though.
Anyway, I'm glad Nintendo isn't in a power race, but shame for it not being X86, it might be bad for the multi-platform businesses.
Sitting somewhere between Xbox and PS4 should provide a comfortable environment for Nintendo to output spectacular games, given what they can achieve on the Wii U.
Skittzo0413
Member
Nintendo patented the idea, so there must be something to it, even if it's minor offloading of processing. When I get some time I'll go through the patent specification in detail to see if they explain how exactly the SCD supplements the console.
I'm one of you! Last non-Nintendo console I've owned is a PS2, and I barely got anything on that. I just am not a fan of shooters or story-based games in general, barring a few exceptions (Witcher), and I have had good enough PCs over the past decade which let me play pretty much any third party games which do align with my tastes (Diablo, Dark Souls, etc.) Really the only game I would buy on a PS4 right now is Bloodborne, and to me that's not worth dropping $400. Nintendo games just resonate with me in a different way, I guess because I'm an "older" gamer who grew up with gameplay focused games.
I'm not saying they necessarily will. I expect the library to be 80% shared. I just mean the systems may regardless have two different gimmicks.
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