Can You Explain Why Tomb Raider Reboot Gameplay is So Good? Because I Can't See It.
- Thread starter MegaSackman
- Start date
basically this. UC3 came out in 2011, and we had no inclination of another one coming out anytime soon. Likewise, 360 players never got to experience the Uncharted series. Those two combined with a really solid game satisfied a whole ton of players.
As for the shooting gallery.. I mean same complaints about Uncharted.. both series are so-so TPSes at best. The draws to the series are the whole packages. Shooting, stealth, action set pieces, QTEs, etc.
I mean make no mistake about it. The TR reboots are a total UC clone. A VERY well made UC clone, but nevertheless. Sadly while TR'13 filled a very real emptiness between UC3 and 4, RotTR is essentially right up against (shortly before, and shortly after) UC4.. so not sure how much love it will get (from me or others)
edit - lol at the "destroys UC games"... hahahaha... UC3 and UC maybe.. but UC2 and 4.. not by a long shot.
Jawbreaker
Member
Because of the bow, mostly. If not for that, I probably would have enjoyed it far less. It controls well, but the story actively diminishes my enjoyment of the game whereas with Uncharted, it hooks me and drives me forward.
I mean, not every game is for every person. I have no idea why people live Dark Souls after playing through one. I can list a number of complaints but the game just isn't for me
With TR, I liked the environments, exploring etc. I liked the tombs. I don't need super hard puzzles that take days to solves or need precision jumps. Rise was a great game to me. Story wasn't that great but I really don't think any game I've played has an amazing story except for some tell tale stuff
With TR, I liked the environments, exploring etc. I liked the tombs. I don't need super hard puzzles that take days to solves or need precision jumps. Rise was a great game to me. Story wasn't that great but I really don't think any game I've played has an amazing story except for some tell tale stuff
Lys Skygge
Member
If I recall, the only thing that felt great in the Reboot (PS4 version) was the bow. It was probably the most fun I've had with a bow in a game. The guns however felt incredibly boring.
I will say, the ps360 versions of Tomb Raider felt much better than the PS3 versions of the Uncharted games. But it's the opposite for the remastered versions for current gen.
I will say, the ps360 versions of Tomb Raider felt much better than the PS3 versions of the Uncharted games. But it's the opposite for the remastered versions for current gen.
MegaSackman
Member
It was possibly in previous Uncharted games to duck on cover but it's not in 4 and it's not the idea of combat, even if it's not perfect the idea is to move around and use the tools you're given to do that, besides enemies at least flank you and force you to react at that probably meaning to at least look for another place to cover if you don't want to run around the map, this is why grenade throwing isn't in 4 I guess. What I didn't like in Tomb Raider is what I said, you can take a nap in cover and kill enemies one after another so while the game has tight controls battling isn't interesting to me since you don't do much. But if "better gameplay" mean all the other things you do outside fighting then yeah, that's good.
Reptars Revenge
Member
I love these games. Feel exactly like the Uncharted Series. Killing people with the bow is satisfying, never switch to guns. Uncharted 4 is the king though.
This is how I feel mostly, except I played Rise of the Tomb Raider before Uncharted 4. A few days before UC4 came out actually. I'm disappointed in the story. I just couldn't get into it. I was also annoyed how nearly everything seems to crash/break on Lara. It gets old after a while. Lara's personality is boring (She was more interesting in the reboot). The characters around her were boring. Villain was boring. However, the gameplay and crafting were good. Really enjoyed the bear fight and optional tombs. I loved the bow and arrow. The game needs to be more of that and less of Uncharted. If I want to play Uncharted, then I'll play Uncharted. Tomb Raider should go back to it's roots.
Tank Controls are the greatest.
For me, its not so much that its good, but that its better than its contemporaries(in areas I care about). The combat isnt great, sure. But the platforming, level design and puzzles are closer to the classic 3D adventure games I like. Uncharted and Asscreed feel braindead in comparison. Its sad what happened to Prince of Persia too...
I hated just as many things as I loved about it. I love TPS games so that helps but the story for the latest tomb raider was so fucking terrible. The cut scenes were such a drag, the characters sucked, the shooting felt terrible for a lot of the weapons, etc. But I just love the concept of Tomb Raider games. The environments are fun to traverse and explore and they've turned Laura into a decent protagonist so it does have its pluses. Overall, it was enjoyable enough that I don't regret playing it, but they can do so much better if they stop trying to be so generic and just get creative. It takes itself too seriously when it comes to storytelling, yet the writing is so bad.
Nightengale
Member
I don't like the combat. I think it's average.
But in terms of the metroidvania aspects and stuff like bow, traversal tools, etc? I think it's quite well made. If it was open-world I would loathe it, but it's crafted well enough to have a sense of pacing despite the checklist game design.
But in terms of the metroidvania aspects and stuff like bow, traversal tools, etc? I think it's quite well made. If it was open-world I would loathe it, but it's crafted well enough to have a sense of pacing despite the checklist game design.
I barely used guns, so I'm coming at it from more of a bow/melee angle. The bow gameplay is great and feels satisfying, especially headshots. The auto-cover Lara uses without needing to press a button to get into cover makes cover-to-cover combat feel a lot smoother than other titles. Melee is simple but effective: the dodge and counter system works and the finishers are brutal in a good way; made me feel like Lara was truly In The Shit. The upgrade system flows smoothly and doesn't overcomplicate itself, nor is it too underdeveloped to feel useless. There are enough collectibles for me to enjoy combing through environments but not too many for me to feel overwhelmed. Exploration felt vaguely Zelda-ish with new tools opening up new options.
The only part of the gameplay I didn't much care for were the set pieces, which felt included without any understanding of why they work so well in Uncharted.
The only part of the gameplay I didn't much care for were the set pieces, which felt included without any understanding of why they work so well in Uncharted.
Goldenmoney
Member
I like shooting games, and there's definitely a lot of shooting in Tomb Raider. There's so much to explore and so many hidden items to find. Rise definitely was an improvement too, more tombs and less QTE's than the first game. I completed both games 100%, something I don't care to do in most games I play.
I expected it to be more Metroidvania. But at 20% complete, it does not feel that way. It's a diet adventure game. Exploration is stripped away to the bare minimum.
Slow-mo and QTE sections also bother me. I don't understand the need for them. Maybe I'm an outlier.
super confused. ducking in cover and enemies using grenades against you are both in 4. like literally the first big action combat sequence you are in.
It's pretty and figuring out the Tomb puzzles is neat. I found the gunplay to be solid as well, but it didn't stand out in a particular way from other shooters that have gunplay down. Story is meh.
If you didn't enjoy the first, I don't really see the point to giving Rise a shot, at least not at full price.
If you didn't enjoy the first, I don't really see the point to giving Rise a shot, at least not at full price.
MegaSackman
Member
Sorry, I meant that you can't toss grenades back so you have to move away from cover.
apieceofstrange
Member
The fact that it's very similar to the Uncharted series coupled with MS temporarily locking down exclusivity probably has to to with some of the decisive opinions. To me, they're fairly similar experiences overall. I thought ROTR was superior to UC 1-3 because I prefer the metroidvania approach to Uncharted's more linear design, but UC4 feels like a step above so far. The story for both series is cliche and forgettable IMO.
Mingledorff
Neo Member
Pretty much this. I don't think you're necessarily missing anything, OP, it's just not clicking with you (and other commenters in this thread) like it did with others.
Preach!! I guess we are in the minority with crystal dynamics focusing on its roots for inspiration but then I suppose they lack talent to confidently be original
User 479360
Banned
I adored it. But nothing is for everyone.
The game was fun, action-packed and the first Tomb Raider I truly liked.
The game was fun, action-packed and the first Tomb Raider I truly liked.
People thought the gameplay was incredible because they felt like gods when hitting headshots left and right against the dumb AI.
This is what I'm talking about.
hardcastlemccormick
Banned
Controls well, free of jank, good encounters and level design, just the right amount of optional content.
It controls well, arrows are neat, it's not actually as automatic all the time as some other cinematic games, you still have to make the jumps, direction etc. and can fail. Shooting was better in the first game. I agree the enemy encounters are pretty rubbish, everything falls apart, woooo slide, I can do this, side characters are horrendous. I guess it's just a sit back and relax sort of game that doesn't ask too much of you except collect shite, Rise was terrible for this and what a forgettable game. There is a good game there but it never pushes enough buttons which is okay for some but not others. Don't know if they have the will or care to make it better than it is but it really needs more than pretty graphics and solid mechanics. AI and encounters need a kick up the arse. They should introduce a Jeep 
IronicSonic
Member
I think Tomb Raider 2013 was the best TPS action adventure/shooter untill that moment. Lara feels super responsive, the firefights feels great, the traversal was fast and fun and the game looks and sounds really good. The upgrade system was fun too.
I think ROTR was a bit derivative and with worst shooting (that input lag) but still is a great title
I think ROTR was a bit derivative and with worst shooting (that input lag) but still is a great title
Agreed - its CDs MO...
I always find that the few of the things that are repeated positively about the reboots are the main things the original games did so well - such a shame...
ps3ud0 8)
It's definitely not free of jank. In my few hours of playing I've already seen Lara spaz out and fling herself off platforms more than a dozen times. Her entire model seems to fold in on itself when you jump to a platform the game doesn't want you to be on. She makes this little hup noise and spins into origami.
I also hit a bug in one of the DLC tombs that would not allow me to progress.
grandwizard
Member
It's a boring game. They chased Uncharted and made a focus group game and removed everything that made the TR series unique. The combat is by the numbers cover based shooting where you just plant yourself and wait for guys to pop out, the platforming is basically automatic instead of the main gameplay mechanic, and the puzzles might as well be non existent. Add Batman vision and a map full of useless collectables and you have 'AAA Game: The Game'.
Honestly the sequel Rise of the Tomb Raider is a good improvement. The combat at least feels a bit more 'active' with how they want you to play it, and the puzzles are there though none are really great. The platforming is still fairly simple though. Not a return to form but still better than the reboot.
Honestly the sequel Rise of the Tomb Raider is a good improvement. The combat at least feels a bit more 'active' with how they want you to play it, and the puzzles are there though none are really great. The platforming is still fairly simple though. Not a return to form but still better than the reboot.
Fancy Clown
Member
It's not and its made worse by horribly dull level and encounter design that makes zero use of the traversal sandboxes (not like you can hip fire or climb and shoot any way) and are set up such that you are on one side of cover and enemies are on the other and there is no opportunity for them to flank you. It's just a span of moronic melee guys that run into your gunfire and then guys with guns who pin you down and are often conveniently placed next to red barrels. There are a handful of encounters that aren't designed like this, but even those are hampered by the game's mobility restrictive combat system.
And as far as platforming goes, I absolutely hate how floaty Lara's jump is.
And as far as platforming goes, I absolutely hate how floaty Lara's jump is.
Pimpbaa
Member
I like both recent games but I agree with this. ROTTR kinda made it seem at first it was going to bring back the globe trotting, but the Syria section was so small and of course as you know Siberia where was most of the game. Kinda wish it stayed in Syria because the precious game already dealt with cold weather (not snowy like Siberia, but still). I hope the next game we don't have Lara shivering next to campfires all the time.
Prophet Steve
Member
It is okayish but I thought it wasn't much special either, although Rise of the Tomb Raider is apparently better?
MegaSackman
Member
It controls well, arrows are neat, it's not actually as automatic all the time as some other cinematic games, you still have to make the jumps, direction etc. and can fail. Shooting was better in the first game. I agree the enemy encounters are pretty rubbish, everything falls apart, woooo slide, I can do this, side characters are horrendous. I guess it's just a sit back and relax sort of game that doesn't ask too much of you except collect shite, Rise was terrible for this and what a forgettable game. There is a good game there but it never pushes enough buttons which is okay for some but not others. Don't know if they have the will or care to make it better than it is but it really needs more than pretty graphics and solid mechanics. AI and encounters need a kick up the arse. They should introduce a Jeep
This is probably the closest to my opinion.
nelsonroyale
Member
I thought it was just solid. I mean it didn't have the charm nor quite the excellence in presentation that makes Uncharted more compelling. I think I prefered the gameplay in Uncharted 1-3 as well, although that may be because I have invested more in those games. Haven't got to the meaty shoot outs yet in U4.
Interest in the sequal when it hits PS4, but I am not sure at all if I will purchase, unless it is reduced in price.
Interest in the sequal when it hits PS4, but I am not sure at all if I will purchase, unless it is reduced in price.
Rated-Rsuperstar
Member
Gameplay is the least of its issues. Its the unlikeable characters, awful dialogue, and brutal tone that has taken the adventure out of the series and turned lara into a self centered murderous bitch more then ever. Crystal Dynamics then waves their flag about how they've made her into such a strong female character. It's just eye rolling.
Crab Milk Mickey
Member
One of the worst reboots of a beloved franchise that comes to mind. Completely missed the point of what made Tomb Raider unique when they opted for the "derivative cinematic third-person shooter" route.
What's even worse is that the developers had a far more interesting concept originally too: more survival horror-themed with an emphasis on isolation, an open world of sorts with Metroid-inspired level design, no fast travel since shortcuts were going to be a focal point, actual tombs with more expansive puzzles than what the final product ended up getting, et cetera. What a sorry turn of events.
What's even worse is that the developers had a far more interesting concept originally too: more survival horror-themed with an emphasis on isolation, an open world of sorts with Metroid-inspired level design, no fast travel since shortcuts were going to be a focal point, actual tombs with more expansive puzzles than what the final product ended up getting, et cetera. What a sorry turn of events.
KnightimeX_Legacy
Banned
Personally I don't need advanced AI to keep me entertained.
I enjoy the simple enemy patterns.
Maybe it's just the old school in me.
I enjoy the simple enemy patterns.
Maybe it's just the old school in me.
You're not missing anything; it's Uncharted with better ground combat but worse encounter design and limited vertical mobility (at least compared to the sequels). Outside of combat it's got more going on than Uncharted but is still pretty simplistic and automated.
Rise of the Tomb Raider does find it's own identity to a degree but it does it in a bizarre way that probably wasn't even intended; after you get some upgrades it becomes so broken it loops back around to being fun like some kind of accidental TPS character action game where you see how much you can style on the encounters.
Rise of the Tomb Raider does find it's own identity to a degree but it does it in a bizarre way that probably wasn't even intended; after you get some upgrades it becomes so broken it loops back around to being fun like some kind of accidental TPS character action game where you see how much you can style on the encounters.
SEGAvangelist
Member
I understand the comparisons to Uncharted (because of cinematics and themes), but the Tomb Raider reboot games feel quite different to me. While they are linear, the world opens up in a metroidvania type way, so it all feels very connected unlike Uncharted (which is VERY linear). You also get to upgrade your move set and weapons, and get to collect stuff in that traditional open-world way that we are seeing so often now. I just don't think the games are designed as similarly as people seem to think. I question those who think Tomb Raider is pretty much Uncharted if they have even played Tomb Raider.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Brain-dead, soulless game. It's kind of like Uncharted, except with:
- Tacked on upgrades and "skills" which are completely shallow and useless and might as well never have been there (give the illusion of progress);
- A more open structure to give you the illusion of non-linearity but it's also useless;
- Even more intrusive handholding (~ding~ SECRET TOMB NEAR BY ---> HERE <------, press L2 to highlight everything, hey remember to press L2, did you press L2 yet? );
- Worse enemy AI;
- Without the charming characters and dialogue of Uncharted.
It's the typical cinematic AAA focus group game, except without the stuff that makes this kind of game work (good presentation, writing, characters). Plus it shits on the legacy of the old-school puzzle exploration games. Sad to see.
- Tacked on upgrades and "skills" which are completely shallow and useless and might as well never have been there (give the illusion of progress);
- A more open structure to give you the illusion of non-linearity but it's also useless;
- Even more intrusive handholding (~ding~ SECRET TOMB NEAR BY ---> HERE <------, press L2 to highlight everything, hey remember to press L2, did you press L2 yet? );
- Worse enemy AI;
- Without the charming characters and dialogue of Uncharted.
It's the typical cinematic AAA focus group game, except without the stuff that makes this kind of game work (good presentation, writing, characters). Plus it shits on the legacy of the old-school puzzle exploration games. Sad to see.
You don't say...
I watches a let's play of it after deciding not get it due to its similarities with uncharted. Then after the ps4 edition came out, I decided to give it a chance, still confirmed all my fears.
I speak as someone who was excited for what I read when they first revealed it in game informer mag. I followed it's development until it's e3 debut where it just looked like an uncharted clone, was sorely disappointed. Some press asked the developers about that similarities, they respond by saying, we are making a much better game than what uncharted is which was an arrogant rubbish.
daninthemix
Member
Yeah, pretty much this.
As someone who loved every prior TR game (possible exceptions: Chronicles and AOD), this was a truly sad affair to play through.
Tomb Raider is probably closer to The Last of Us then Uncharted. And not just in a they had the same idea: take Uncharted and give it a survival horror twist at the same time kind of way. In a so many very specific things happen in both games, one had to be straight up copying the other.
I mean:
-Kill Bambi
-Rebar to the stomach
-Hanging upside down and having to shoot enemies coming after you
-playing a section while gravely injured
-scavenging for materials to upgrade your weapons
-Rebar to the stomach
-Hanging upside down and having to shoot enemies coming after you
-playing a section while gravely injured
-scavenging for materials to upgrade your weapons
Kinda specific.