Can You Explain Why Tomb Raider Reboot Gameplay is So Good? Because I Can't See It.
- Thread starter MegaSackman
- Start date
It was a fun adventure. But I would have preferred more complex environments and puzzles. And traversal paths that diverged. It's the same critique I have for uncharted (but 4 improved). People complain about the combat in both but I could take it or leave it in either. More puzzles more complex exploring. I wanna feel lost.
Langdon Alger
Banned
I liked TR 2013's gameplay, but Rise of the Tomb Raider had terrible input lag (on the Xbox one version) that made it a real chore.
Mr.Fletcher
Member
I loved TR2013 but last year's sequel left me cold in the end. The input lag ruined the responsive controls of the original and I just don't think it came together as nicely.
It's undoubtedly a better game in a lot of areas though.
It's undoubtedly a better game in a lot of areas though.
A lot of people love it because it was their "first". Some love it because it was the only other option available. It didn't do much of anything exceptionally well, but it wasn't outright bad either. It took me several restarts and me eventually lowering my expectations from what I enjoyed in previous games to not be bored long enough for it to get interesting. Once I was over that hump, it was better. Mind numbingly basic and limited, but better.
MegaSackman
Member
I wonder what people think about level design and mission design in terms of gameplay, if they consider it a factor or not, because with my little knowledge I think that it's my main problem with some of these games with "great gameplay" (always talking about combat), for instance Vanquish is a game with great mechanics but it's level design is really really bad in my opinion and I think it's a problem that Platinum has in general so even if controls are a wonder I end up being bored pretty quickly because of uninspired enviroments and levels. Even Tomb Raider does a better job at this in my opinion.
I know I'll be hang for saying something bad about Vanquish though.
I know I'll be hang for saying something bad about Vanquish though.
daninthemix
Member
What really annoys me is how it defecates on the Tomb Raider legacy. It shares none of the original sensibilities. At least Legend / Anniversary / Underworld (particularly the latter two) shared some of the original games' spirit.
This is just a generic triple-A theme park ride Uncharted clone with zero soul and no good ideas of its own. If Crystal wanted to do that, why not just come up with an original character and leave Tomb Raider on the shelf until they could do something, you know, Tomb Raiderish with the brand.
This is just a generic triple-A theme park ride Uncharted clone with zero soul and no good ideas of its own. If Crystal wanted to do that, why not just come up with an original character and leave Tomb Raider on the shelf until they could do something, you know, Tomb Raiderish with the brand.
It's three years old so I'm talking from memory of a vague experience. Take it with a grain of salt.
But what I remember is that Lara was much more nimble than Drake, or really any other third person shooter (and definitely also old Tomb Raider). With TPS games you invariably get stuck on scenery at some point. I don't mean stuck stuck, but that your flow of movement gets interrupted as you remain glued to cover, or there's something protruding that you have to forcibly walk around, or as you're climbing you need to push in a slightly different direction than you'd expect. This almost never happens in Tomb Raider, the game is streamlined as fuck. You want to go somewhere, you push Lara into the direction and she steps over or sidesteps around small obstacles. I know streamlining is a dirty word here, but in real life I don't stop in my tracks whenever I encounter a tree branch, only to go left, right, right and onwards either. I just duck and keep going.
In Tomb Raider 2013 you see an enemy and a tree, and in one fluid movement you run up the tree, over a branch and drop on top of the enemy. Not having to deal with collision detection as much is a godsend because you can focus on being awesome
And that's the second part. I don't think it can be stressed enough how well it does the prey to predator conversion in the game. Even using usually annoying stuff like QTEs to great success, where you start off flailing and slowly get better footing. It's really satisfying to see your own increasing competence reflected in such a way.
But what I remember is that Lara was much more nimble than Drake, or really any other third person shooter (and definitely also old Tomb Raider). With TPS games you invariably get stuck on scenery at some point. I don't mean stuck stuck, but that your flow of movement gets interrupted as you remain glued to cover, or there's something protruding that you have to forcibly walk around, or as you're climbing you need to push in a slightly different direction than you'd expect. This almost never happens in Tomb Raider, the game is streamlined as fuck. You want to go somewhere, you push Lara into the direction and she steps over or sidesteps around small obstacles. I know streamlining is a dirty word here, but in real life I don't stop in my tracks whenever I encounter a tree branch, only to go left, right, right and onwards either. I just duck and keep going.
In Tomb Raider 2013 you see an enemy and a tree, and in one fluid movement you run up the tree, over a branch and drop on top of the enemy. Not having to deal with collision detection as much is a godsend because you can focus on being awesome
And that's the second part. I don't think it can be stressed enough how well it does the prey to predator conversion in the game. Even using usually annoying stuff like QTEs to great success, where you start off flailing and slowly get better footing. It's really satisfying to see your own increasing competence reflected in such a way.
The Tomb Raider reboot is design-by-checklist at its worst. Terribly generic and forgettable game design that fails to forge any kind of unique identity for itself. The art is great but the design and writing has some serious problems. The one thing it does well design-wise is its combat/cover controls but seeing as that's supposed to be the most neglectable and insignificant part of the Tomb Raider experience, that simply isn't enough IMO.
Movalpolos
Banned
2013 TR had awesome combat. Encounters felt structured. Mixing up between guns and melee felt good.
Rise of the Tomb Raider fell completely flat in that area for me though. The weapons didn't even feel as good.
Rise of the Tomb Raider fell completely flat in that area for me though. The weapons didn't even feel as good.
Pancake Mix
Copied someone else's pancake recipe
It just works so well OP. It's difficult to explain, but it deserved all of the praise.
Zvonimir Boban
Banned
Those are all pretty popular tropes in movies and games.
Tomb Raider isn't complete shit though?
I like the melee combat, the upgrade system, the dodging mechanics and what have you. It feels far more fluid and engaging to me than the 3 first uncharteds. I can also pull of headshots a lot easier....plus there is something great about bow kills i just can't explain
OrlanisWorks
Banned
Pretty much what I think. I felt quite rewarded by the combat in the latest Tomb Raider games.
SimpleCRIPPLE
Member
It played better then Uncharted, which was the benchmark. And even then, it was the bow that was satisfying to use.
The gunplay in both is remains mediocre.
The gunplay in both is remains mediocre.
God, this are the worst kind of posts: "I didn't play the game but..."
On topic:The gameplay is nothing mindblowing, it is decent at best.
Unity2012
Member
Agreed.
The combat in TLOU and the last TR reboots feels more fluid. The cover mechanic in U4 is hit-or-miss, if you give us a button for it I expect it to work. I love both the TR series and Uncharted. They're both some of the only good SP games worth playing still out there--besides the King: The Witcher : )
reggieandTFE
Member
I thought the first one was OK, but i just played the second one on my new PC and really enjoyed it. That might be because I was able to play at 4k resolution and it's an absolute stunner, but I adored the the actual tomb raiding in the challenge tombs and love the bow and arrow/stealth mechanics.
WrenchNinja
Member
Why, because it doesnt fit your narrative? We're talking about the act of pointing, shooting, sneaking and movement. That is the the core of the combat loop for Tomb Raider. Surely since it's such a staggering leap over Uncharted, the multiplayer should have been a huge hit then, since yknow, Uncharted's loop is mediocre according to some here.
IronicSonic
Member
Jangowuzhere
Banned
I've always thought of these modern Tomb Raider games as the Michael Bay of video games. It looks pretty, but creatively, they are a complete mess.
It is literally an assembly of all modern video game tropes, but not done well. You could replace Lara Croft and the title of the game with anything else, and it would still work. These games are that soulless and generic.
It is literally an assembly of all modern video game tropes, but not done well. You could replace Lara Croft and the title of the game with anything else, and it would still work. These games are that soulless and generic.
Not only does it "not fit my narrative," it's also blatantly disingenuous to judge the game systems of Tomb Raider based on the popularity of its multiplayer. In Tomb Raider's multiplayer, running and jumping is far more sluggish, there's absolutely no cover system(which calls into question why you think you can "sneak" in multiplayer; crouching in this game is near useless), and it's glitchy as fuck compared to the campaign. That's not even mentioning the design issues like horribly balanced weapons and maps that champion spawn camping.
You haven't played it. That's the only reason I could imagine someone thinking the popularity of Tomb Raider's multiplayer reflects the quality of Tomb Raider's singleplayer gameplay.
Spring-Loaded
Member
Almost as bad as people who don't read posts they're responding to
rottendevice
Member
I thought it was a great game hampered by the fact that you has to shoot people.
lolosgolos
Banned
I would think that title statement is for Rise of the tomb raider. Definitely in a league of its own in tps gameplay and very different from the first reboot
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
It's not. It's decent at best, along with everything else in the game.
thekonamicode
Member
MaybeBurger
Banned
its an okay enough game but dear lord if the supernatural "cursed island" thing is hackneyed as fuck in this
ProfessorMoran
Member
I can't really dispute any of the claims that it's bland and rather uninspired, but for some reason, I sank like 100 hours into this game on Steam, and still play the Definitive Edition on my PS4 from time to time. It's fucked.
EDIT: Pulling off headshots with fire arrows is the shit, though.
EDIT: Pulling off headshots with fire arrows is the shit, though.
D
Deleted member 471617
Unconfirmed Member
After finishing Uncharted 4 several days ago, I realized that while it's an excellent game, it wasn't what it was or what I was expecting. Majority of what it added, ROTTR already did and did it better. The open areas in Uncharted 4 are too open and mostly empty, especially chapter 10. The best part about what makes Uncharted what it is was non-existent in Uncharted 4 except for one action sequence halfway through the game.
The only thing that Uncharted 4 is easily better than ROTTR is in story and characters. Visually, both games look great and ROTTR is the best looking game on Xbox One. Music and sound was great in both games. Voice acting was better in Uncharted 4 but it was still good in ROTTR.
The main area that ROTTR is better in is the gameplay. It's tighter, less clunky and way more responsive. Plus the control configuration is easily better. Seriously, why the cover button in Uncharted 4 is the same as the roll button is beyond me. Neither have a crouch button and both games do the same thing when approaching an area with enemies, the character will slouch/crouch down which makes it a dead giveaway.
Uncharted 4 fell apart in the end and the boss battle is equally as bad as the boss battle in ROTTR. The difference though is that in ROTTR, it makes sense to have the boss battle where as in Uncharted 4, it felt horribly forced which made it worse.
Both games have their set pieces and segments where the character should have died a million but yet is still alive so that all evens out. Granted, that one action sequence in Uncharted 4 is better than any action sequence in ROTTR but it doesn't matter because nearly everything else is better in ROTTR. The tombs are awesome and the puzzles are good even though both games come up short as they're easy to figure out and complete.
The driving in Uncharted 4 was just unnecessary and a way to get from point A to point B faster. The stealth in ROTTR is easily better especially when using the bow and arrow. I also preferred the aiming and shooting in ROTTR over Uncharted 4 as Uncharted 4 felt too clunky and unresponsive at times.
Both games have their fair share of easy plat-forming but the difference is that it fits in better with ROTTR because after all, ROTTR is more about exploration, hunting, scavenging and Lara evolving into what she eventually becomes. Uncharted 4 should have been an action packed game and instead, it was just one awesome action sequence with a bunch of teases throughout.
Both endings felt rushed and forced but the huge open areas in ROTTR and getting to the end just felt so much more satisfying to me than it did in Uncharted 4. The gameplay in ROTTR is what hooked me and kept me coming back for more.
And yeah, I know that this topic is meant for the 2013 Tomb Raider but ROTTR surpasses it in every way and even going back to 2013 Tomb Raider, I also enjoyed that game more than Uncharted 3 which was a total and complete bore at times and the gameplay was worse than it is in Uncharted 4.
I would give both U4 and ROTTR a 9/10 as both are excellent games but neither are perfect nor deserve to be hailed as such. If it wasn't for the story and characters in Uncharted 4, it wouldn't have even hit my 9 mark. Basically, both games hit the 9 mark for me for the opposite reasons.
In Uncharted 4, the story, characters and it being the "end" carried it while the gameplay, side quests, open hub areas, great maps, hunting, scavenging and upgrading carried ROTTR.
In ROTTR, the open areas served a purpose where as outside of a few chapters, the open areas in Uncharted 4 serve no purpose other than it showing off the visuals which isn't needed as the visuals being great is already a given.
Simply, ROTTR is the better overall game in my opinion and if it wasn't for The Witcher 3 last year, ROTTR would have been my game of the year. Uncharted 4 is easily game of the year for 2016 thus far but considering the games that's been released this year thus far, that's really not saying much. If Uncharted 4 met it's original release date of last October/November, it wouldn't have won for one simple reason - it doesn't have the depth that The Witcher 3 and ROTTR have.
Uncharted 4 is a great game but easily overrated while ROTTR is also a great game but easily underrated. And neither is really a surprise. At least not to me.
And p.s., you should really play ROTTR because if you're going to talk about the gameplay, the sequel is definitely better than the 2013 reboot as it improved in nearly every aspect.
Sorry for the long post and somewhat off-topic.
The only thing that Uncharted 4 is easily better than ROTTR is in story and characters. Visually, both games look great and ROTTR is the best looking game on Xbox One. Music and sound was great in both games. Voice acting was better in Uncharted 4 but it was still good in ROTTR.
The main area that ROTTR is better in is the gameplay. It's tighter, less clunky and way more responsive. Plus the control configuration is easily better. Seriously, why the cover button in Uncharted 4 is the same as the roll button is beyond me. Neither have a crouch button and both games do the same thing when approaching an area with enemies, the character will slouch/crouch down which makes it a dead giveaway.
Uncharted 4 fell apart in the end and the boss battle is equally as bad as the boss battle in ROTTR. The difference though is that in ROTTR, it makes sense to have the boss battle where as in Uncharted 4, it felt horribly forced which made it worse.
Both games have their set pieces and segments where the character should have died a million but yet is still alive so that all evens out. Granted, that one action sequence in Uncharted 4 is better than any action sequence in ROTTR but it doesn't matter because nearly everything else is better in ROTTR. The tombs are awesome and the puzzles are good even though both games come up short as they're easy to figure out and complete.
The driving in Uncharted 4 was just unnecessary and a way to get from point A to point B faster. The stealth in ROTTR is easily better especially when using the bow and arrow. I also preferred the aiming and shooting in ROTTR over Uncharted 4 as Uncharted 4 felt too clunky and unresponsive at times.
Both games have their fair share of easy plat-forming but the difference is that it fits in better with ROTTR because after all, ROTTR is more about exploration, hunting, scavenging and Lara evolving into what she eventually becomes. Uncharted 4 should have been an action packed game and instead, it was just one awesome action sequence with a bunch of teases throughout.
Both endings felt rushed and forced but the huge open areas in ROTTR and getting to the end just felt so much more satisfying to me than it did in Uncharted 4. The gameplay in ROTTR is what hooked me and kept me coming back for more.
And yeah, I know that this topic is meant for the 2013 Tomb Raider but ROTTR surpasses it in every way and even going back to 2013 Tomb Raider, I also enjoyed that game more than Uncharted 3 which was a total and complete bore at times and the gameplay was worse than it is in Uncharted 4.
I would give both U4 and ROTTR a 9/10 as both are excellent games but neither are perfect nor deserve to be hailed as such. If it wasn't for the story and characters in Uncharted 4, it wouldn't have even hit my 9 mark. Basically, both games hit the 9 mark for me for the opposite reasons.
In Uncharted 4, the story, characters and it being the "end" carried it while the gameplay, side quests, open hub areas, great maps, hunting, scavenging and upgrading carried ROTTR.
In ROTTR, the open areas served a purpose where as outside of a few chapters, the open areas in Uncharted 4 serve no purpose other than it showing off the visuals which isn't needed as the visuals being great is already a given.
Simply, ROTTR is the better overall game in my opinion and if it wasn't for The Witcher 3 last year, ROTTR would have been my game of the year. Uncharted 4 is easily game of the year for 2016 thus far but considering the games that's been released this year thus far, that's really not saying much. If Uncharted 4 met it's original release date of last October/November, it wouldn't have won for one simple reason - it doesn't have the depth that The Witcher 3 and ROTTR have.
Uncharted 4 is a great game but easily overrated while ROTTR is also a great game but easily underrated. And neither is really a surprise. At least not to me.
And p.s., you should really play ROTTR because if you're going to talk about the gameplay, the sequel is definitely better than the 2013 reboot as it improved in nearly every aspect.
Sorry for the long post and somewhat off-topic.