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[ironcreed]

"A glimpse at the future of consoles"

Please be excited

LOL

 

[bman94]

Think of Hanzo's ult in Overwatch. It's similar in power to that.

x1000000000000

Our failing planet. Sister to Marshit

You're just gonna loooove this new biennial iteration HW model.

Edit: louiedog, u cheeky bastard ahaha.

Trillion floating point operations per second.

It's a flop, but times 10 to the 12th power.

That was the mix of a joke post and genuine curiosity. That's for the laugh and insight lmao

 

[Baroquemantic]

I hope both Sony and MS have a way to easily transfer games from one iteration to the next. And by that I mean, for people like me with data caps, I hope they let us use a USB or Ethernet cable to copy the data over to the next console. And for those with external drives, I hope they won't require a formatting.

Anyway, I think it'll be interesting to see this tick tock in power between both companies. Each will have a few years as the most powerful console, then they won't, and then they will again.

 

[LowEndTorque]

People.

None need to buy every iteration of a console. Just get every second or third revision. Not the end of the world.

If you are really concerned about having the best version of multiplats, get a pc. And if you want the best, but ecluding dealing with a pc, then just sell your slightly used version every time a new revision comes out.

I mean... really.

That's not solution for people who don't want to think or worry about upgrading all the time.

Assuming you get a PC with the best graphics card available on the market right now you will only have "the best version of multiplats" until a new and more powerful card comes out. Then your card which seemed so amazing when you first got it will feel inadequate (if you're that personality type) until you get the new card and so on and so forth. Not to mention top of the line cards cost more than consoles.

 

[Crayon]

I think the smart move if somebody needs the cutting edge console would be to alternate between manufacturers on a tick-tock schedule. Then you get the exclusives of each and a way to play multiplats with fancy graphics

That doesn't sound so bad at all.

 

[RowdyReverb]

Neo being on the market a year longer is going to mean Sony will always be able to undercut the Scorpio on pricing unless Microsoft decides to loss lead, which isn't going to happen..

That's why they keep selling the Xbox One (or possibly 1.5) at a lower price point and sell this Scorpio at a premium price point.

 

[icespide]

I hope both Sony and MS have a way to easily transfer games from one iteration to the next. And by that I mean, for people like me with data caps, I hope they let us use a USB or Ethernet cable to copy the data over to the next console. And for those with external drives, I hope they won't require a formatting.

Anyway, I think it'll be interesting to see this tick tock in power between both companies. Each will have a few years as the most powerful console, they they won't, and then they will again.

on PS4 at least you can already back up everything to an external hard drive and restore it to a new PS4

 

[GamerJM]

You would hardly want to collect these things they'll be junk and never classics. It'd be like collecting old smartphones.

The fact that Smartphone comparisons are a thing are what really makes me worried about these iterative consoles. If they're designed with the idea of "get rid of your old model," in mind, then eventually we're going to hit a point where old software has compatibility issues and not very many people kept their old consoles around because they traded in their old ones every time a new one releases. There's a decent amount of software on non-Smart cell phones that's basically impossible for you to access now.

Once we get to a point where digital distribution becomes the norm this is going to be an even bigger issue.

 

[...Scatter...]

I fail to see how this news should put Sony in damage control mode.

If anything these rumours (and the ones from past months) tell us that Microsoft is late to this game, in fact we heard this iterative-upgraded console shit from a Sony guy for the first time in 2015 and Neo is gonna launch earlier (fall 2016 or early 2017).

So Sony has:

- an already(?) definite console set to be launched earlier

- better exclusives (cause they won't be on PC)

- the biggest userbase with 40+ M sku around the world and better brand recognition

- probably a cheaper price, more inclined to be cut too


Raw power can't help much and can't prevent devs from developing for the lowest common denominator (especially with that userbase). But it's definitely something different compared to the traditional cycle we always had.

Yeah. Power is a curse huh?

 

[Markoman]

Yep. If Micrisoft really are going to make the stupid move of releasing this thing long after the Neo, then their only chance of any kind of success, is to not only create a 6+TF monster, but to sell it at a heavy loss.

Exactly, if the 6TF rumour is true then

a) Scorpio will be sold at 500$ or above
b) MS returns to eating losses on HW

In both cases, this may hurt them really bad if this thing does not take off as they're hoping for.

 

[That1BlackGuy]

I was thinking of getting a Shang Tsung. That system can morph itself to anything.

So a PC?

Spoiler

Caught the misspelling haha.

 

[Glorified G]

You forget Sony has a VR device to sell off the back of the PS4K this year.

Giantbomb & Eurogamer says there is nothing in the PS4K documentation that mentions anything about PSVR.

 

[icespide]

Once we get to a point where digital distribution becomes the norm this is going to be an even bigger issue.

why does this make any difference? games should work if they are physical or digital

 

[Kuro]

I find 6tflops very hard to believe. Why would Microsoft try to be more expensive again and what would be the point if 95% of people will be playing games at 1080p. The only reason I could think why they would go for so much power is if they went all in with Oculus which would be even more expensive.

 

[NullPointer]

Don't think they were 'afraid' more like these current consoles had a ceiling for acceptable performance. That would'nt get their game ripped to shreds when the resolution mob come a calling

I'm looking at Uncharted 4 and wondering where this ceiling is supposed to be.

People always say the tech is tapped out early and then something always comes along and blows our doors off.

Hell, DOOM pulls off magnificent performance across all platforms. Sacrifices are made, as are made on all platforms, but its still one of the better looking games this gen, even at 60fps on the consoles.

 

[Tal]

I'm fine with a "tick-tock" model for consoles.

 

[icespide]

I'm looking at Uncharted 4 and wondering where this ceiling is supposed to be.

well Uncharted probably hit it honestly

 

[HocusPocus]

Sounds great .

 

[Bsigg12]

I'm looking at Uncharted 4 and wondering where this ceiling is supposed to be.

1080p60 campaign? That would be glorious.

 

[ironcreed]

Anyway, I think it'll be interesting to see this tick tock in power between both companies. Each will have a few years as the most powerful console, then they won't, and then they will again.

 

[Strootman]

I'm looking at Uncharted 4 and wondering where this ceiling is supposed to be.

People always say the tech is tapped out early and then something always comes along and blows our doors off.

It's just one game.

 

[Massa]

That's not solution for people who don't want to think or worry about upgrading all the time.

Assuming you get a PC with the best graphics card available on the market right now you will only have "the best version of multiplats" until a new and more powerful card comes out. Then your card which seemed so amazing when you first got it will feel inadequate (if you're that personality type) until you get the new card and so on and so forth. Not to mention top of the line cards cost more than consoles.

I think therapy could help someone with that problem.

Or just spend the $200 or so that Gamestop will ask to trade-up every 3 years or so.

 

[...Scatter...]

Make it as powerful as possible. Keep peripherals optional. Put voice recognition in the controller like my Xfinity remote.

 

[psyfi]

Where are all the "I'm done with console gaming" and the assortment of other concern posts now that microsoft is pretty much confirmed to have an iterative console in the works?

uhhh have we been reading the same threads

And honestly, I think people are just becoming more accustomed to the idea.

 

[K.Jack]

Exactly, if the 6TF rumour is true then

a) Scorpio will be sold at 500$ or above
b) MS returns to eating losses on HW

In both cases, this may hurt them really bad if this thing does not take off as they're hoping for.

Man, if they eat the cost and it flops. Shareholders would carpet bomb Redmond.

 

[GamerJM]

why does this make any difference?

Because you can't buy physical media for the games off of EBay or at Mom and Pop shops that still sell old software anymore. So eventually we'll hit a point where this stuff is so obsolete that modern consoles aren't backwards compatible with the games anymore, older consoles are harder to come by because most people threw them out or got rid of them somehow because they became worthless (due to the iterative models), and even if you do find an older model of console then you won't be able to buy the games for it because the servers selling the games will have shut down.

 

[Crayon]

That's not solution for people who don't want to think or worry about upgrading all the time.

Assuming you get a PC with the best graphics card available on the market right now you will only have "the best version of multiplats" until a new and more powerful card comes out. Then your card which seemed so amazing when you first got it will feel inadequate (if you're that personality type) until you get the new card and so on and so forth. Not to mention top of the line cards cost more than consoles.

The fact that Smartphone comparisons are a thing are what really makes me worried about these iterative consoles. If they're designed with the idea of "get rid of your old model," in mind, then eventually we're going to hit a point where old software has compatibility issues and not very many people kept their old consoles around because they traded in their old ones every time a new one releases. There's a decent amount of software on non-Smart cell phones that's basically impossible for you to access now.

Once we get to a point where digital distribution becomes the norm this is going to be an even bigger issue.

There is a certain aesthetic that will be going away, and that is the self-contained-slice-of-history console paradigm. I understand and I am sad to see it go and I also anticipate some major teething problems in the transition.

But lets not forget the important part is the games. Games will still be made and they will be numerous and they will be quality and in the end that is the really important thing and the foundation of what we enjoy. Even if the console business model is teetering on the precipice of disaster, gaming itself is indestructible at this point.

 

[wonderful103]

I find 6tflops very hard to believe. Why would Microsoft try to be more expensive again and what would be the point if 95% of people will be playing games at 1080p. The only reason I could think why they would go for so much power is if they went all in with Oculus which would be even more expensive.

Yes part of it is for VR and VR being done well. Current consoles aren't enough

That's not solution for people who don't want to think or worry about upgrading all the time.

Assuming you get a PC with the best graphics card available on the market right now you will only have "the best version of multiplats" until a new and more powerful card comes out. Then your card which seemed so amazing when you first got it will feel inadequate (if you're that personality type) until you get the new card and so on and so forth. Not to mention top of the line cards cost more than consoles.

That's not how pc gaming works. It will always be better than consoles because of that modularity. You can upgrade as you'd wish.

 

[Trojan]

Can someone photoshop the Xbox One into that Wii-U rainy day meme? They're sending the Bone out to the pasture at this point.

 

[GamerJM]

There is a certain aesthetic that will be going away, and that is the self-contained-slice-of-history console paradigm. I understand and aI am sad to see it go and I also anticipate some major teething problems in the transition.

But lets not forge the important part is the games. Games will still be made and they will be numerous and they will be quality and in the end that is the really important thing and the foundation of what we enjoy. Even if the console business model is teetering on the precipice of disaster, gaming itself is indestructible at this point.

The games isn't the problem, my problem is the idea that the games being made now might not be playable in 30 years due to compatibility issues with modern hardware.

 

[NullPointer]

well Uncharted probably hit it honestly

You don't think another ND game on current PS4 hardware could look or perform even better?

It's just one game.

Am making a point about expectations and what people believe is possible.

 

[Xone9]

so new consoles every 2 years

sony 2016, MS 2017, sony 2018, MS 2019

WEAK SAUCE!!!

ugh

 

[icespide]

Because you can't buy physical media for the games off of EBay or at Mom and Pop shops that still sell old software anymore. So eventually we'll hit a point where this stuff is so obsolete that modern consoles aren't backwards compatible with the games anymore, older consoles are harder to come by because most people threw them out or got rid of them somehow because they became worthless (due to the iterative models), and even if you do find an older model of console then you won't be able to buy the games for it because the servers selling the games will have shut down.

I guess thats valid assuming those servers actually get shut down, which hasn't actually happened for any of the big 3 yet, tho potentially they could offer mechanisms for backing up your digital games onto external storage

 

[AmyS]

You forget Sony has a VR device to sell off the back of the PS4K this year.

I know. I overlooked PSVR. But PSVR seems to work decently enough with the current PS4.

Sony would gain much more from *not* releasing PS4K / Neo at all though. Let Microsoft be the one to piss off consumers, developers, etc with a mid-gen upgrade. Scorpio probably isn't powerful enough to be that, even though it's probably much more a 1.5 model than Neo is a PS4.5.

On the other hand, rapid fire new consoles sounds fun.

Spoiler

except for my bank account

 

[demigod]

What if Sony got really clever and does not say a word about NEO at E3.

Internally, they shelve Neo / PS4K and move PS5 forward to 2018, and therefore leapfrog Scorpio.

Thats a bad idea. Having their console out a year earlier means they will have a huge install base for 4k AND able to undercut scorpio when it releases. In US market, we've seen xbox one sales able to keep up with ps4 during the holidays due to its price.

 

[Kaako]

Has anyone done estimations on how much a potential 6TF system for mid-fall 2017 will cost to manufacture? Including Vega architecture & HBM2 memory.
They have to be willing to sell this at a loss right? Cause I don't really see many people dropping cash on a $500-600 console.

 

[-hadouken]

If they're designed with the idea of "get rid of your old model," in mind, then eventually we're going to hit a point where old software has compatibility issues and not very many people kept their old consoles around because they traded in their old ones every time a new one releases.

How is that different from the old console model? An iterative model has the potential to extend the life of the 2013 boxes - beyond support that they'd receive if a generational reset took place. The bigger concern from my perspective is that the old boxes hold us back in the longer term.

 

[Holundrian]

I feel bad for saying this but I hope this move bombs. It goes against what I bought a console for.

 

[The Elite]

so new consoles every 2 years

sony 2016, MS 2017, sony 2018, MS 2019

WEAK SAUCE!!!

ugh

So a new console every year.
Lol. I hope they stick to 3 year cycles.

 

[Crayon]

The games isn't the problem, my problem is the idea that the games being made now might not be playable in 30 years due to compatibility issues with modern hardware.

Valid. And there have been some lost to time. If those games are important enough to enough people, we will find a way to preserve them. The easiest way to not fuck this up will be to support the release of games on open formats like proper personal computing apis.

If Halo 9 is UWP only and MS pulls the plug, we'll have to be creative to save it but nothing is impossible.

 

[tuxfool]

Has anyone done estimations on how much a potential 6TF system for mid-fall 2017 will cost to manufacture? Including Vega architecture & HBM2 memory.
They have to be willing to sell this at a loss right? Cause I don't really see many people dropping cash on a $500-600 console.

You're also forgetting the CPU that will be used to power this thing. They'd be real dumb to use Jaguar cores.

 

[disappeared]

The games isn't the problem, my problem is the idea that the games being made now might not be playable in 30 years due to compatibility issues with modern hardware.

Why would you be worrying about a game made today not working on a console/device thirty years from now?

 

[Zedox]

Still mad that I'm going to be forced to buy a console with a disc drive. Irrelevant space. grrrr.

 

[Baroquemantic]

well Uncharted probably hit it honestly

Uncharted isn't even the best looking PS4 exclusive. Plus, SSM still hasn't shown what they've been up to. The GOW games last gen look better than ND's games last gen.

 

[icespide]

You don't think another ND game on current PS4 hardware could look or perform even better?

so why don't other games look as good as ND games I guess is my point?. is it because ND puts forth a crazy amount of effort compared to other devs? Not saying thats bad but should they have to? Wouldn't it be great if games could look as good or even better than that with less effort? does this make sense?

 

[Sydle]

Uncharted isn't even the best looking PS4 exclusive. Plus, SSM still hasn't shown what they've been up to. The GOW games last gen look better than ND's games last gen.

lol wut?

 

[VincentMatts]

I agree. PS4 being more powerful isn't why it's winning.

Of course it is. What console did everyone make their primary console when both of them first launched? It wasn't the Xbox. Why not? Xbox had every reason to be the main console after last generation especially in North America. But it wasn't. And why not? For one, bad messaging and also because all the games ran better on PlayStation. The initial hard-core gamers made PlayStation their primary console because of the power plain and simple. After that, everyone goes where their friends are which was in this case ultimately the PlayStation.

Xbox has had more exclusives then PlayStation since the very start of this generation yet PlayStation is still winning. And that by a lot. People that say power doesn't matter in this case are wrong because it matters very much.

The initial console crowd will get the games on the platform where they feel the game runs the best, after that the more casual people that follow will ultimately go wherever the initial crowd decided was a better console.

And I don't want to hear the PlayStation 2 stories on how It was weaker and it won BS. It was Microsoft's first console then and it was never going to beat PlayStation, especially not on their first try. It's ridiculous to even think it.

Power is hugely important and Microsoft learned that the hard way.

 

[Markoman]

Man, if they eat the cost and it flops. Shareholders would carpet bomb Redmond.

and that's the reason why this news still makes me believe that they will soft-exit the console market in a few years from now. I just can't see what MS can do about Sony WW-mindshare-dominance but banking on Sony fuck-ups. Power alone just won't cut it...they're late to every party and have a major deficit in the 1st party software department.

 

[icespide]

Still mad that I'm going to be forced to buy a console with a disc drive. Irrelevant space. grrrr.

open it up, take it out, and put in a couple extra teraflops

 

[chromatic9]

Probably the best time to make a move, 2017. People who bought a XBO/PS4 in 2013-2014, you hear about the Neo or PS4k at E3 or wherever, you're not really feeling you've got the most out of your purchase 2-3 years in or not really seeing the benefits of Sony's 4tflop machine and MS say hold your horses we've got something better coming.

I'd imagine by 2017 (4 years in and 2018 (5 years in) and faced with a new system to buy you might plump for the Xbox 6tflop whatever it's called. I know some will say you can just wait for a PS5 then but the new Xbox will be at that ~5 year time, PS4 Neo might get caught in the middle here and be too incremental to be bothering with. Of course Sony has all the WW base, either or both could fail but I think MS really are just looking to get back in the game and get back to decent place at the least. Those 360 owners might jump back.

MS might need to out flank the Neo stuff. Not making a prediction though, PS4 neo could turn into a cheap but decent option and the power game reverts back to PS2 inferior spec days.