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[gofreak]

I was just thinking the same thing.

Xbox 360 to Xbox One was 240 to 1300 gigaflops, right?

5x jump vs 4x jump isn't that much of a difference.

Yeah, but that was arguably an underpowered jump relative to a regular transition - a sacrifice in Microsoft's quest to ensure from an early stage that the system would have 8GB of ram for all their multi-tasking media plans.

5x isn't really the norm.

 

[SOR5]

So they decided to give PlayStation a freebie while at the same they time devalue their Xbox brand.

Sounds like solid strategy.

I get where you're coming from but trust me, rebranding your identity with powerful hardware and good games to back it up, is the opposite of devaluing

 

[flipswitch]

And dozens of pc configurations... Tell us, which devs from which studios were angry.

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/bioware-founder-on-ps4xbox-one-upgrades-itd-be-a-g/1100-6438664/
Bioware founder said.

I'd say that'd be a gigantic pain in the ass that flies in the face of the purpose of consoles," he said. "It's funny, there's actually some stories behind that. For example, the original Xbox...Microsoft actually had multiple different DVD drives. They didn't tell anyone that, but as a developer you discovered that you have different performance and sometimes you'd have these boxes of refurbished drives and different brands and different equipment. It caused incredible variability."

I just think it's bad," he said. "I think, 'lock it' and let developers do their thing. But at the end of the day, if you can focus your development effort on one set of hardware requirements and target, you are going to get a better result. It's easier than having to split it, adding more people, having to port things across."

 

[c0de]

Neo that appears to be true

Scorpio, no one has a clue yet. - Unless I missed something whilst I was asleep.

I don't think a console releasing in 2017 has a jaguar core. That would be ridiculous.

 

[MilkyJoe]

I don't think a console releasing in 2017 has a jaguar core. That would be ridiculous.

Isn't Jaguar a netbook processor?

 

[c0de]

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/bioware-founder-on-ps4xbox-one-upgrades-itd-be-a-g/1100-6438664/
Bioware founder said.

Complaining about the speed of a DVD drive? Seriously? Well, yes,criticism but this is just funny.

 

[c0de]

Isn't Jaguar a netbook processor?

It was and is a low end processor with power usage in mind, not performance. And was outdated when the consoles released, in 2013.

 

[darkinstinct]

I really doubt that MS will announce 'Scorpio' on E3, special event later this year or in early 2017 is more reasonable decision.

If they want to hurt Sony they have to announce now. Nobody is saving money for a 6TF machine they don't know is coming when a 4TF machine is out. And they can afford it if they announce a cheaper SKU at the same time. They kill their core sales by announcing new hardware early but can enter the mass market with the lower spec. Sony has no slim planned, they have to be careful what to say about future products.

 

[nelsonroyale]

Yeah, but that was arguably an underpowered jump relative to a regular transition - a sacrifice in Microsoft's quest to ensure from an early stage that the system would have 8GB of ram for all their multi-tasking media plans.

5x isn't really the norm.

Yeah, wasn't PS3 to PS4 around 7 times in terms of GPU.

This seems like a fairly conservative bump for a successor, which is what it will be. Neo, given what we know, powerwise only seems like a bump. If it has the same CPU, it is nowhere near enough to be considered a transformative product in power terms. Personally, I might get a Neo (mainly if it makes a decent difference with stuff like FFXV), but it is nowhere near what I would be satisfied with for a new console. I think 8 to 10 TF will probably make a more respectable difference to what we have now, in terms of what we expect in a new console.

Again, I am not that enthusiastic about this iterative model. I know it is all the rage, but I think it is archaic. We need modular parts. It is frustrating that phones and laptops still haven't gone that way in a major way. It is a more sustainable (carbon) model...

 

[Zombie James]

If they want to hurt Sony they have to announce now. Nobody is saving money for a 6TF machine they don't know is coming when a 4TF machine is out.

Good point. Timing is going to be key here.

 

[MilkyJoe]

If they want to hurt Sony they have to announce now. Nobody is saving money for a 6TF machine they don't know is coming when a 4TF machine is out. And they can afford it if they announce a cheaper SKU at the same time. They kill their core sales by announcing new hardware early but can enter the mass market with the lower spec. Sony has no slim planned, they have to be careful what to say about future products.

Good point. Timing is going to be key here.

I'd say that Scorpio public knowledge is pivotal with the Neo's head start. Once people choose a side going forward, I think that's most likely where they will stay.

Not including people that buy both, obviously. But they are the Switzerland of the warz, so are not part of the conversation.

 

[Doffen]

I get where you're coming from but trust me, rebranding your identity with powerful hardware and good games to back it up, is the opposite of devaluing

Issues I see:

PlayStation is now a stronger brand.
Your friends are probably on PSN.
PS4 owner are building their PlayStation library.

These are ecosystems. Both Microsoft and Sony do what they can to lock people in it. That's why the next PlayStation will run PS4 game and the next Xbox will run Xbox One games.

 

[darkinstinct]

4x power isn't really a full jump. 8x is more like the norm. This would be a pretty expected mid-gen improvement. The larger gap with XB1 might make things a little more interesting but hopefully MS is clear about compatibility policies.... it doesn't necessarily have to be a problem, the extra power here can easily be spent on dialling up the same existing games rather than requiring a new baseline.

Xbox 360 to One was only a 5x increase after eight years. Another 4x after four years is not what I would call a midgen improvement. Basically this is a new gen, Sony is doing the midgen stuff. Which fits with Spencers narrative that he is not a fan of 1.5 upgrades, prefers substantial ones.

 

[tzare]

I think 3 years is more likely. 2 is even possible if neither wants to spend too long playing second fiddle to other.

And if Neo precedes Scorpion by a year, it could well be only shortly after Scorpion's launch - relatively - before we start hearing rumblings about the next PS iteration.

The idea that you could wind up in endless procrastination if you think too much about what's around the corner in 12-18 months isn't all that far fetched really.



4x power isn't really a full jump. 8x is more like the norm. This would be a pretty expected mid-gen improvement. The larger gap with XB1 might make things a little more interesting but hopefully MS is clear about compatibility policies.... it doesn't necessarily have to be a problem, the extra power here can easily be spent on dialling up the same existing games rather than requiring a new baseline.

Not a full jump but not as 'small' as the ps4 neo one. I mean, Ps4 neo may allow for 1080p 60fps or a better VR experience, but not sure if it guarantees jumping to 4k resolution with decent framerate. It also seems be come 3 years after ps4 launch vs 4 years for the One.
On the other hand on XBO jumping from 900p or 1080p with some framerate issues to 4K 30fps stable or maybe 60fps or more bells and whistles is a more significant jump. We also come from previous long generation, so it depends on each one perception.
It depends on expectations, and pricing.
Also , due to ESRAM and lower specs, on One i also find it more difficult to keep games running 'decently' there, especially multiplatform games targeting XBO, PS4, Neo andd Scorpion + PC.

We will see.

Oh, and pricing. That is key, because... how much would Scorpion cost? and a similar spec PC? Since Windows10 convergence seems to be another option to play MS games.

 

[Venom Fox]

Wonder with the news that Neo is 2017 Sony had decided to make a 7Tflop machine?

 

[karma2578]

Announcing at E3 will be key to Scorpio's success. Conference is before Sonys so people will compare consoles, if people know it's coming and the power difference then I think gamers will wait for a real difference and enjoy this current gen.

 

[gofreak]

Xbox 360 to One was only a 5x increase after eight years. Another 4x after four years is not what I would call a midgen improvement. Basically this is a new gen, Sony is doing the midgen stuff. Which fits with Spencers narrative that he is not a fan of 1.5 upgrades, prefers substantial ones.

Like I said, Xbox One is a bit of an aberration.

The rumoured Neo gpu spec is >3x XB1, Scorpion >4x XB1 - if true, these are both in the same ballpark of a mid-gen improvement IMO. The line between 'iterative' and 'full-gen-leap' is not the difference between 3x and 4x.

If we compare to PS4, the gaps get smaller again - on the lower or higher end of 2-3x PS4 for both Neo and Scorpion. Neither of these is a full gen leap, vs PS4, both come up small compared to the 360->XB1 difference even, which itself was on the smaller end of a usual full gen leap.

 

[PodcastFips]

What do high end PCs nowadays offer in TFlops? Let's say a 970 and some mid-tier i7 processor.

I know it's not exactly comparable but it gives a hint.

 

[KingBroly]

Complaining about the speed of a DVD drive? Seriously? Well, yes,criticism but this is just funny.

If the DVD read speeds are different across multiple devices, it's going to cause differences in load times, framerates, etc. because one is getting the info it needs faster.

 

[SOR5]

Issues I see:

PlayStation is now a stronger brand.
Your friends are probably on PSN.
PS4 owner are building their PlayStation library.

These are ecosystems. Both Microsoft and Sony do what they can to lock people in it. That's why the next PlayStation will run PS4 game and the next Xbox will run Xbox One games.

These ecosystems are far younger than the ones when the seventh gen ended, most people went from the PS2 to 360 to PS4 for a multitude of reasons. But that in itself is proof that nothing is set in stone eternally

That ecosystem loyalty hasnt had enough time to really cement itself (brand loyalty however, is a different story) I know people have invested alot into the ecosystems already, but the average guy who only plays a handful of multiplats is going to be swayed mostly by marketing. The PS4 ecosystem doesnt stretch back like someone who's had an iPhone since 2007 (unless you're counting trophies)

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

I get where you're coming from but trust me, rebranding your identity with powerful hardware and good games to back it up, is the opposite of devaluing

The biggest problem they have at this point is games. Their major franchises are in decline and they haven't made the investment in first party they should have. This could all be negated if they get the next equivalent of Gears but it hasn't happened for them yet and at this stage in the console cycle to procure a true 3rd party exclusive when your underperforming might just be too costly

 

[jimbobsmells]

These announcements sound like MS are trying to create a platform / ecosystem. Clever move - as they are in a much, much stronger position to establish the value in that ecosystem than Sony could ever be, primarily thanks to Windows.

 

[gofreak]

What do high end PCs nowadays offer in TFlops? Let's say a 970 and some mid-tier i7 processor.

I know it's not exactly comparable but it gives a hint.

It's not really comparable given the differences between nVidia and AMD.

The 970 is rated at 3.5Tflops, but it's usually lined up against a AMD 390 which is >5Tflops. So nvidia and AMD flops aren't really considered 1:1 comparable.

If Scorpion is 5Tflops+ on the (AMD) GPU then the R390 or, thus, 970 might be a reasonable good rough proxy, depending on other things like memory setup etc.

 

[SOR5]

The biggest problem they have at this point is games. Their major franchises are in decline and they haven't made the investment in first party they should have. This could all be negated if they get the next equivalent of Gears but it hasn't happened for them yet and at this stage in the console cycle to procure a true 3rd party exclusive when your underperforming might just be too costly

Yeah they need a real renaissance, lets hope whatevers shown at E3 up is quality enough to shake things up

 

[sammyCYBORG]

I own 5 games for X1 and I've had it since launch.

As a PC gamer, it seems like this will be the last MS console I buy, as each game is now being moved over to PC.

 

[c0de]

If the DVD read speeds are different across multiple devices, it's going to cause differences in load times, framerates, etc. because one is getting the info it needs faster.

This is not an issue anymore, all games are copied to disk.

 

[Green Yoshi]

Xbox Scorpio will be a true successor as Xbox 360 and not a minor upgrade as PS4 Neo.

My only concern: Announcing a system seventeen months before release? Sony did this with Playstation 3, but it will be tough for PR to fuel the hype for such a long period of time.

 

[thuway]

The biggest problem they have at this point is games. Their major franchises are in decline and they haven't made the investment in first party they should have. This could all be negated if they get the next equivalent of Gears but it hasn't happened for them yet and at this stage in the console cycle to procure a true 3rd party exclusive when your underperforming might just be too costly

I'd like to add to this- the biggest problem Microsoft has is the 40 million PS4 existing userbase TODAY. Trying to bait existing PlayStation customers away from the PS4 ecosystem where their digital purchases, friends, trophies, and GAMES are will be much harder to do than merely dangling a carrot that says "25% more power!!".

 

[Xando]

That ecosystem loyalty hasnt had enough time to really cement itself (brand loyalty however, is a different story) I know people have invested alot into the ecosystems already, but the average guy who only plays a handful of multiplats is going to be swayed mostly by marketing. The PS4 ecosystem doesnt stretch back like someone who's had an iPhone since 2007 (unless you're counting trophies)

That's not entirely correct though. The average guy buys the system that their friends or people they know (like youtubers) use. This is the problem MS is facing since PS is the default console most people in europe go for. MS is not gonna win these people with higher specs unless PS4k is a lot worse (not just 720p/1080p difference).

The XBox for the most people i know (Germany) is an afterthought after the PS4, PC and for some even the Wii U.


They need to make people think "WoW i want that" and i can't see how they are gonna do it with their US centric mindset and games catalogue

 

[SOR5]

They need to make people think "WoW i want that" and i can't see how they are gonna do it with their US centric mindset

Hence..marketing

 

[darkinstinct]

The biggest problem they have at this point is games. Their major franchises are in decline and they haven't made the investment in first party they should have. This could all be negated if they get the next equivalent of Gears but it hasn't happened for them yet and at this stage in the console cycle to procure a true 3rd party exclusive when your underperforming might just be too costly

First party investments take years to make a dent, look at 343, look at Black Tusk/Collective. If they invest now they can profit in four to five years. If they invest in second party they can profit in two years. It also wouldn't matter because since almost a decade the winning console in the US is the one that offers superior versions of multiplatform games. First party doesn't sell consoles like it used to, it's only feelgood service for your existing userbase.

 

[Doffen]

These ecosystems are far younger than the ones when the seventh gen ended, most people went from the PS2 to 360 to PS4 for a multitude of reasons. But that in itself is proof that nothing is set in stone eternally

That ecosystem loyalty hasnt had enough time to really cement itself (brand loyalty however, is a different story) I know people have invested alot into the ecosystems already, but the average guy who only plays a handful of multiplats is going to be swayed mostly by marketing. The PS4 ecosystem doesnt stretch back like someone who's had an iPhone since 2007 (unless you're counting trophies)

I'm quite confident that Microsoft dropping the ball regarding Xbox One in Europe has given PlayStation a great advantage in the ecosystem war.

 

[thuway]

What do high end PCs nowadays offer in TFlops? Let's say a 970 and some mid-tier i7 processor.

I know it's not exactly comparable but it gives a hint.

You are way off the mark when you write i7. Think something along the lines of the younger, less capable version of an i3 stacked alongside a 970/290X. There are multiple other factors at play here too. Microsoft is "target"ing 6 TF and the rumors are suggesting performance can vary from 5 all the way to 6 TF so that gives a pretty broad range of performance parameters.

The other issue no one wants to talk about is if AMD will actually launch Vega in time. New architectures can be very cantankerous in terms of yields and release dates. We all might be thinking Fall 2017, but that can easily fall into Summer 2018.

 

[Xando]

Hence..marketing

They need marketing speaking to the european consumer and not what they did with XB1.

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

Scorpio!
He'll sting you with his dreams of power and wealth.
Beware of Scorpio!

His twisted UWP obsessions are his plot to rule the world
And his userbases' health.

He'll welcome you into his store
Like the nobleman welcomes his guest

With 6 teraflops and Oculus Rift support that helps you invest!
But beware of his games with gold
Plus two backwards compatible games with them
And on Fridays, theres crossplay with Xbox and Windows 10!
He loves Windows 10!

This is terrible.

 

[karma2578]

It also depends how the pissed general gamers from the 40 million ps4 owners are to the ps4k console coming out this year.

 

[SOR5]

I'm quite confident that Microsoft dropping the ball regarding Xbox One in Europe has given PlayStation a great advantage in the ecosystem war.

Oh yeah massively, and they need to take it far more seriously. Most european countries always favour pro-consumerism over just pure marketing, but I think if you combine both those aspects and have some good games in combination you'll get good results

They really need to establish themselves as assertive, competitive but also a quality brand in Europe

Japan though, christ I got no idea, i'd leave that one but I dont think theyre gonna

This is terrible.

It's a cheesy parody of a cheesy parody from the Simpsons
Believe me, the end result wasn't designed to impress

They need marketing speaking to the european consumer and not what they did with XB1.

Yeah absolutely, put the michael bay hollywood shit down for a second Microsoft, at least for Europe

 

[Lurgan1337]

That doesn't sound too real to me.
Unless it's priced at 999$

 

[Simply Sami]

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/bioware-founder-on-ps4xbox-one-upgrades-itd-be-a-g/1100-6438664/
Bioware founder said.

His retired.

Who cares what he thinks now?

 

[Asd202]

I don't know how I feel about such a big upgrade from original Xbone for PS4K the upgrade is substantial but more manageable. In this case we're looking at games running on low compared to ultra. Xbone version of first party games will look bad and it may hurt game design. There basically killing Xbox One with this console in just 4 years lol.

 

[madmackem]

Feeling mixed about PS4 Neo as compared to Scorpio it's a lukewarm update now

How when both are just rumours at this point, both might not release one might the other might not how can you be basing anything yet on such little info bar some leaked documents and some leaked guesses.

 

[bidguy]

I don't know how I feel about such a big upgrade from original Xbone for PS4K the upgrade is substantial but more manageable. In this case we're looking at games running on low compared to ultra. Xbone version of first party games will look bad and it may hurt game design. There basically killing Xbox One with this console in just 4 years lol.

4 years is more than enough on a weak console like xbone. its just underpowered as fuck because they made it with kinect in mind

 

[SOR5]

There basically killing Xbox One with this console in just 4 years lol.

Hey, it happened before right?

 

[thuway]

I don't know how I feel about such a big upgrade from original Xbone for PS4K the upgrade is substantial but more manageable. In this case we're looking at games running on low compared to ultra. Xbone version of first party games will look bad and it may hurt game design. There basically killing Xbox One with this console in just 4 years lol.

They aren't killing any thing. The Xbox One version of games will once again be 900p/30 FPS and the Xbox Scorpio will be 1440p 60 FPS or 4K 30 FPS. To some people that won't mean a damn thing, to others it'll be enough for them to jump out for a new machine.

 

[AmyS]

....but the CPU in both the NEO and Scorpio are expected to remain right? It's just getting over clocked I last heard?

I would not say that at all, we know absolutely nothing of Scorpio's CPU. There are rumblings that the whole console is a new architecture from Xbox One, but other than that, we don't know.

 

[Acheteedo]

Oof, and I was so close to buying a PC... gonna just keep an eye on this developing situation, might save a heap of cash and get the VR machine I've been wanting.

 

[bidguy]

I would not say that at all, we know absolutely nothing of Scorpio's CPU. There are rumblings that the whole console is a new architecture from Xbox One, but other than that, we don't know.

rumor says new and revamped architecture so i doubt they use the same weak cpu

 

[thuway]

Oof, and I was so close to buying a PC... gonna just keep an eye on this developing situation, might save a heap of cash and get the VR machine I've been wanting.

You do realize if you just go ahead and buy the PC- Microsoft is going to launch all their exclusives on PC and institute an Xbox front end on there. All the Scorpio really will be is a baseline model to code against, essentially a Windows Nexus device.

 

[SOR5]

Oof, and I was so close to buying a PC.

Well, if its on Windows 10...

essentially a Windows Nexus device.

Yeah think of it like, any hardware manufacturer can access it like Android, but Microsoft will make their own flagship version (The Xbox Whateverthehell) and market it as the primary device.

 

[MisterXDTV]

Issues I see:

PlayStation is now a stronger brand.
Your friends are probably on PSN.
PS4 owner are building their PlayStation library.

These are ecosystems. Both Microsoft and Sony do what they can to lock people in it. That's why the next PlayStation will run PS4 game and the next Xbox will run Xbox One games.

THIS. 40M people are buying games that work on the PS ecosystem, now it's very difficult to switch after only 3/4 years....

Xbox brand is suffering worlwide, they would need a miracle to come back from this...