Polygon: Xbox Scorpio will be a ~6 TFLOP system (v PS4K's 4.14), unveil soon, Fall 17

The_Almighty_Swan said:
North America, UK possibly worldwide due to the upgraded specs. It trumps the Neo especially with the PC support. You can kinda see them merging PC and console gamers in one giant community with this strategy. Sony can't compete with that in the long run.
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The impact of the PC support is minimal right now until they find a way to counter Steam. Most PC gamers are locked into the Steam ecosystem.
 
jacks81x said:
The impact of the PC support is minimal right now until they find a way to counter Steam. Most PC gamers are locked into the Steam ecosystem.
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Very true. But putting Halo, Forza and Gears on PC will bring in some of the PC community and the fact they can play against people on consoles with similar specs will entice some. Not all but some. I'm not saying it'll work, but it's a dam good strategy if they can execute it right.
 
If the XB2 is using Oculus for its VR could that mean that maybe they will do something so Oculus PC store games can work on the Xbox?


I mean the Oculus Software lineup isnt setting the world on fire but it would be nice.
 
gofreak said:
These are not 'full next-gen' calibre.

Depending on which end of 5-6Tflops Scorpio lands, its GPU may only be 25% more powerful than Neo. Or at the other end, <50%. That's not the difference of an increment vs a generational leap.

In terms of the leap over the PS4, both are only in the 2-3x range. Very mid-gen incremental at either end of that range IMO. Per the rumours, neither machine is triggering a new software gen...these are both premium extensions to the PS4 and XboxOne platforms.
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True but there is enough tangible difference even between the small power gap between x1 and PS4. A 25% more powerful X1.5 would result in even more tangible difference. Perhaps stable 4k30 would be the norm.
 
rokkerkory said:
True but there is enough tangible difference even between the small power gap between x1 and PS4. A 25% more powerful X1.5 would result in even more tangible difference. Perhaps stable 4k30 would be the norm.
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Totally agree. That's part of the reason a lot of people have the PS4 over the Xbox One as well. Multiplats run and look better on the PS4. Graphic whores will likely go along with the more powerful Xbox for the same reasons when they're released.
 
funkystudent said:
If the XB2 is using Oculus for its VR could that mean that maybe they will do something so Oculus PC store games can work on the Xbox?


I mean the Oculus Software lineup isnt setting the world on fire but it would be nice.
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And it wouldn't cut into MS resources causing another Kinect situation.
 
rokkerkory said:
True but there is enough tangible difference even between the small power gap between x1 and PS4.
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There's a 50% gap there on the GPU side (at least, maybe more if you want to look at ROPs), and we don't consider them to belong to two different generations. By these rumours Scorpio will be somewhere between 25-50% more powerful than Neo...similarly that doesn't make for a generational difference. Not in any sense that we've used that concept to date at least. Even looking at the GPU alone and forgetting the usual memory enhancements that come between generations, the rumours on both these machines have them orbiting what you might expect from a mid-gen upgrade 3 or 4 years on from an original system - not 6 years on per the usual generational jumps.
 
if the Scorpio will support Oculus natively, what does it mean in terms curating content? On PC, anything goes, but there's no way Microsoft would allow porn to be on the Xbox.
 
The_Almighty_Swan said:
If they make it that much more powerful then the Neo and they put their library on PC as well it can very well work. Heck they just got most of the world to jump onto Windows 10. There's a big plan in play here and if played right they can flat out take over the console market. It's not bold but more so foreseeing the possibilities with such an aggressive approach.
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They're clearly playing it smart using the pc side for the publicity and esports side most likely. I also expect them to create more tools so more content is generated on the pc side that can be easily used by the scorpio in games like halo. It's a bit odd seeing this all go down but all MS really needs to do now to look good is get rid of that online sub but that's a big fat chance.

It also feels like sony might make another console iteration a year or two later if the new xbox has a big lead over it. Then MS might do the same and repeat. Things could get ugly or perhaps modular with some safegaps.
 
The_Almighty_Swan said:
Totally agree. That's part of the reason a lot of people have the PS4 over the Xbox One as well. Multiplats run and look better on the PS4. Graphic whores will likely go along with the more powerful Xbox for the same reasons when they're released.
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Graphics whores are generally on pc. Digital foundry wank threads are generally breeding grounds for fan wars
 
I doubt it will be that powerful unless they go for $500 again, which seems a little crazy.

I selfishly hope Neo is still more powerful so I can stay on the PS platform as my primary for longer, but I always focus my attention wherever games perform better, so Ill be paying close attention to this subject.
 
gofreak said:
These are not 'full next-gen' calibre.

Depending on which end of 5-6Tflops Scorpio lands, its GPU may only be 25% more powerful than Neo. Or at the other end, <50%. That's not the difference of an increment vs a generational leap.

In terms of the leap over the PS4, both are only in the 2-3x range. Very mid-gen incremental at either end of that range IMO. Per the rumours, neither machine is triggering a new software gen...these are both premium extensions to the PS4 and XboxOne platforms.
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If the leaks are correct, the Scorpio is 4-4.5x more powerful then the Xbone and 30%-50% higher then the Neo. That is a generational leap in power no matter how you slice it. How Microsoft approaches it software side, who knows? It is most certainly powerful enough to be a new gen and since Microsoft has killed an under performing console in 4 years before, its seems likely to me it will be a new generational paradigm.
 
Dinky Dino said:
They're clearly playing it smart using the pc side for the publicity and esports side most likely. I also expect them to create more tools so more content is generated on the pc side that can be easily used by the scorpio in games like halo. It's a bit odd seeing this all go down but all MS really needs to do now to look good is get rid of that online sub but that's a big fat chance.

It also feels like sony might make another console iteration a year or two later if the new xbox has a big lead over it. Then MS might do the same and repeat. Things could get ugly or perhaps modular with some safegaps.
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The big question is that if MS is successful with the PC market playing along, how would Sony compete with that?
 
I am excited for the new version of GTA V
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E3 is really going to be curious. I still think the 6 "target" was said to try and take attention away from Neo. I'm guessing (since it isn't finalized yet) they will likely land closer to Neo at a 5 or something.

Also, Happy for DeepEnigma...finally gets a well deserved break from all the overtime being put into this thread.
 
Sulik2 said:
If the leaks are correct, the Scorpio is 4-4.5x more powerful then the Xbone and 30%-50% higher then the Neo. That is a generational leap in power no matter how you slice it. How Microsoft approaches it software side, who knows? It is most certainly powerful enough to be a new gen and since Microsoft has killed an under performing console in 4 years before, its seems likely to me it will be a new generational paradigm.
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Full gen is 8-10x. There's no upgraded amount of ram. The CPU increases are minor.
 
Sulik2 said:
If the leaks are correct, the Scorpio is 4-4.5x more powerful then the Xbone and 30%-50% higher then the Neo. That is a generational leap in power no matter how you slice it.
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As I've contested I don't think it is. It would be the weakest 'generational leap' vs the original systems to date. And for the two new systems vs each other, saying one machine is a mid-step and the other machine that may be only 25 or 30% more powerful is a full-step is a stretch of the narrative to say the least.

The comparison to XB1 is more flattering, but XB1 was not the standard bearer for the last generational transition to be frank. And even that comparison comes up short vs typical full generational leaps of the past.
 
jacks81x said:
if the Scorpio will support Oculus natively, what does it mean in terms curating content? On PC, anything goes, but there's no way Microsoft would allow porn to be on the Xbox.
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We don't actually know whether this will happen and at least that rumour I am pretty confident is pulled out of someone's arse and has been around for at least as long as when Oculus bundled a controller with the Rift.

There is many layers of Oculus though. Oculus as in the peripheral working with this doesn't really introduce anything new to the way MS treats their ecosystem. It will probably still be Xbox applications sold through MS's marketplace. It is extremely unlikely that MS would allow Oculus marketplace on this, and even if they did, Oculus marketplace already has content restrictions but MS wouldn't want to relinquish control.
 
gofreak said:
There's a 50% gap there on the GPU side (at least, maybe more if you want to look at ROPs), and we don't consider them to belong to two different generations. By these rumours Scorpio will be somewhere between 25-50% more powerful than Neo...similarly that doesn't make for a generational difference. Not in any sense that we've used that concept to date at least. Even looking at the GPU alone and forgetting the usual memory enhancements that come between generations, the rumours on both these machines have them orbiting what you might expect from a mid-gen upgrade 3 or 4 years on from an original system - not 6 years on per the usual generational jumps.
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I never said generational difference because it's likely not. Also, 'generational' term is likely a thing of the past now.

I compared the difference to the gap between PS4 and X1 which very tangible. Look at all the 1080p vs 900p mp games. We can expect (if specs hold true) for similar difference in mp games.
 
gofreak said:
As I've contested I don't think it is. It would be the weakest 'generational leap' vs the original systems to date. And for the two new systems vs each other, saying one machine is a mid-step and the other machine that may be only 25 or 30% more powerful is a full-step is a stretch of the narrative to say the least.
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But at this point the leap doesn't show anymore. In that way it's like PCs too. Better framrates, draw distance....all the known bells and whistles dialed up, but I don't think we get that wow factor again.
 
I don't even know what's happening anymore.

This console generation is such a technical mess... If it's true though, I'll probably finally have to buy Xbox...
 
The only "mid-gen revision" I'd consider totally interesting, personally speaking, would be an implementation similar to what happens with Steam Machine:
-A much stronger Xbox, practically a new generation, however using UWP in its favor, and allowing that every game runs in the previous and future Xbox versions, with differences in graphics and performance with the game shaping its configurations (automatically or manually) to be played at its best in that particular hardware.

That would pratically end with the backwards compatibility dilemma, and would allow different hardware versions shaping to the most various consumer types: stronger and more expensive hardware for the enthusiasts, and cheaper and humble versions for those that only want to play one game here and there.

I can't see Sony implementing this, but I could see MS going at this direction based on their UWP plans and Windows 10 releases. Still, I think that's unlikely.

A pure and simple mid-gen revision or a new gen in the middle of it, it's just bad imho.
 
But what about the other things? Will it have Polaris like the Neo will probably have? I'm glad E3 is soon. Let's see if they are actually going to be talking about a brand new Xbox that is planned for 2017. Will that mean Neo get's a full year head start? Likely, because Sony will want to have that Neo out when PSVR releases. Let's see how much or this turns out to be true. Phil Spencer did speak of moving forward in big numbers if they were going to move forward. With that stuff in mind, late 2017 makes sense.
 
rokkerkory said:
I never said generational difference because it's likely not. Also, 'generational' term is likely a thing of the past now.
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That's fair enough, but my original point was addressing a post that was making that claim - that x was a half-step within one gen and y was a full leap into the next.

cackhyena said:
But at this point the leap doesn't show anymore. In that way it's like PCs too. Better framrates, draw distance....all the known bells and whistles dialed up, but I don't think we get that wow factor again.
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I've significant doubts that we're not going to see spec improvements - and software evolution in tandem - beyond this current set of consoles. We will have machines in a few years that represent a proper 'full leap' over the xb1 and ps4 - at least if the market doesn't come tumbling down. The whole conversation becomes moot if we have reached a point where there is no more improvement to be had, though.
 
Tatsumi Oga said:
But what about the other things? Will it have Polaris like the Neo will probably have? I'm glad E3 is soon. Let's see if they are actually going to be talking about a brand new Xbox that is planned for 2017. Will that mean Neo get's a full year head start? Likely, because Sony will want to have that Neo out when PSVR releases. Let's see how much or this turns out to be true. Phil Spencer did speak of moving forward in big numbers if they were going to move forward. With that stuff in mind, late 2017 makes sense.
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who says neo launches 2016 ?
 
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