Polygon: Xbox Scorpio will be a ~6 TFLOP system (v PS4K's 4.14), unveil soon, Fall 17

Tatsumi Oga said:
But the previous reports all said 2016,didnt they? It would make sense to release alongside or close to PSVR. Guess E3 will have all the answers. If Sony does release it this year, they'll have a big advantage over MS for a full year when it comes to multiplatform games.
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What exactly is this big advantage in the first year, though?
The only difference this holiday will be 1080p for BF1 with 900p and 720p for PS4 and Xbox One respectively. Infinite Warfare will probably already be 1080p on PS4, as will most other titles. Pretty much every title announced for this holiday and Spring next year I guarantee will already have 1080p on PS4 and probably 1080p/900p on Xbox One.
That full year between releases of advantage doesn't really mean much if the games will be so similar.
64bitbros said:
You think the hardware company can't keep up with the software company? lol
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Have you seen the hardware that Microsoft has been pumping out lately?
 
etta said:
What exactly is this big advantage in the first year, though?
The only difference this holiday will be 1080p for BF1 with 900p and 720p for PS4 and Xbox One respectively. Infinite Warfare will probably already be 1080p on PS4, as will most other titles. Pretty much every title announced for this holiday and Spring next year I guarantee will already have 1080p on PS4 and probably 1080p/900p on Xbox One.
That full year between releases of advantage doesn't really mean much if the games will be so similar.
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What makes you think anything will be different when Scorpio supposedly releases next year?
 
SneakersSO said:
Alright, how about the Playstation 1? Dreamcast? PS2 & OG Xbox & Gamecube? Wii?

Power does not matter in determining the market leader. Price & market perception does.
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I was simply refuting the other poster's statement as to the PS3.

Artvanderlay said:
This isn't a leak like the NEO definitely was, this has been a controlled reveal, theres no way polygon would be allowed to release this otherwise.

They've announced a new console is coming soon the only thing is when, the only way they can cause any worthwhile storm at E3 is by announcing it for this year.
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What kind of funny business are you trying to pull with that name?
 
get2sammyb said:
What makes you think anything will be different when Scorpio supposedly releases next year?
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Because developers have ~16 months to work on it? As opposed to 6 months they have if PS4K releases in October? That's not enough time to show significant advantages. This holiday's titles will probably mostly benefit from increased resolution and framerate to keep things simple.
 
Scorpio Horoscope for Today
Today's skies bring the second of the year's two uneasy squares between cautious Saturn in your second house of finances and freedom-loving Jupiter in your house of hopes and dreams. Talk about being caught between a rock and a hard place! Of course you need to feel secure, Scorpio—but at what price? If you feel like time is passing you by and you're not pursuing your passions, this cosmic clash could spur some lifestyle changes. Start thinking creatively about how you can accomplish both while making as few compromises as possible.
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Dont even tell me there isnt a correlation
 
etta said:
Because developers have ~16 months to work on it? As opposed to 6 months they have if PS4K releases in October? That's not enough time to show significant advantages. This holiday's titles will probably mostly benefit from increased resolution and framerate to keep things simple.
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Ps4 K devs have until scorpio launches to take advantage tho.
 
etta said:
Because developers have ~16 months to work on it? As opposed to 6 months they have if PS4K releases in October? That's not enough time to show significant advantages. This holiday's titles will probably mostly benefit from increased resolution and framerate to keep things simple.
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I must have missed the news: Microsoft's already shipped Scorpio development kits?
 
Hendrick's said:
That 1070 is looking better every day.
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etta said:
What exactly is this big advantage in the first year, though?
The only difference this holiday will be 1080p for BF1 with 900p and 720p for PS4 and Xbox One respectively. Infinite Warfare will probably already be 1080p on PS4, as will most other titles. Pretty much every title announced for this holiday and Spring next year I guarantee will already have 1080p on PS4 and probably 1080p/900p on Xbox One.
That full year between releases of advantage doesn't really mean much if the games will be so similar.

Have you seen the hardware that Microsoft has been pumping out lately?
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Hmmm good point. If that's going to be the only differences, it shouldn't be too bad and MS should probably be able to manage. I do wonder when both consoles are out, how long until we get to see games taking advantage of the much better hardware? Halo 6 for example, there shouldn't be any bottlenecks for 343 anymore, but it will most probably come to Xbox One as well. I don't see MS and Sony ditching their current consoles anytime soon.

But for sure they will have to give a good reason why you would want to invest in a brand new system. Have a few exclusives really showing the power.
 
Art Vandilay said:
The PS3's issue was that it was difficult to develop for with their cell technology. That as well as getting a late start behind the 360. And the price IIRC.
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Agree, and Neo may have that early start over the Scorpio as well, almost a year, along with the price difference.

This really is looking like a PS3 - 360 situation all over again. Except Scorpio is the PS3 this time.
 
bidguy said:
there is no way this is releasing this year lol

according to polygon ms only last week had a briefing with devs about the console. way too late
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Theres no way Microsoft would allow this reveal if they wouldn't gain a narrative from it. So either this is hey we know NEO is coming before us so were gonna say wait a few months and were gonna stomp it with our future awesome power.

Or heres the new Xbox 2 and were delivering it before anyone expected .

Which is more likely given the current market. Microsoft needs the surprise.
 
N.Domixis said:
Ps4 K devs have until scorpio launches to take advantage tho.
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Of course, I'd assume some Spring titles will start to show some differences, and maybe by Summer things will start to ramp up, but then in Summer the Scorpio will have been announced by then so people can start making informed decisions, whether to buy PS4K or wait for Scorpio. A lot will wait for Black Friday deals regardless I assume.

get2sammyb said:
I must have missed the news: Microsoft's already shipped Scorpio development kits?
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If this is a new architecture, Vega/HBM2 then I would assume they are getting ready to send devkits out. If there's a Spring 2017 reveal then I would think they'd start sending Scorpio devkits as soon as this E3, or Summer for sure.

Tatsumi Oga said:
Hmmm good point. If that's going to be the only differences, it shouldn't be too bad and MS should probably be able to manage. I do wonder when both consoles are out, how long until we get to see games taking advantage of the much better hardware? Halo 6 for example, there shouldn't be any bottlenecks for 343 anymore, but it will most probably come to Xbox One as well. I don't see MS and Sony ditching their current consoles anytime soon.

But for sure they will have to give a good reason why you would want to invest in a brand new system. Have a few exclusives really showing the power.
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Depends as I said above how long developers have had the devkits for. If they receive them this Summer then I assume Fall 2017 games will be ready to show the differences, at launch of Scorpio.
 
anothertech said:
Agree, and Neo may have that early start over the Scorpio as well, almost a year, along with the price difference.

This really is looking like a PS3 - 360 situation all over again. Except Scorpio is the PS3 this time.
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I wouldn't go quite that far. It would definitely seem as though Scorpio will be releasing a year later, but neither has even been officially announced yet. The architecture of the two should be similar enough that there won't be issues anywhere near what devs experienced with the PS3. And as previously stated, the consoles haven't even been announced so it's still early to speculate as to price. Let's get a release date first.
 
Venom Fox said:
I'd imagine that both companies will use some of their generated profits from Xbox One and PS4 to subsidise some of the costs of creating a higher power console. Especially if they're expecting slow sales in the first year.

That way if they subsidise $100 and only 10 million are sold in the launch year the hardware will drop in price and they'll be earning money again by the time the general masses will adopt the higher Neo and Scorpio.

You gotta make money to spend money.

I've always predicted this would be the case with the PS5 Xbox 2.
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The way all the big console companies have been talking, I don't think anyone is willing to do this any more.

We'll have to see how bad MS wants that market share back.
 
Really not looking forward to these companies iterating hardware every two - four years for the foreseeable future.. PS4 may be my last console purchase for a while. Gonna focus on my PC.
 
ThoughtsOfSpeaking said:
OK. Humour me. All things being equal. Running at the same graphic settings and resolution (1080p) what kind of FPS bump are we typically talking?



So about 40% more powerful on paper?
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c0de said:
I am not here to “humour“ you. But that word implies you are not even really interested at all.
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Granadier said:
No, I won't humor you. Because that is a useless comparison to make. That's not how computing works.
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I really don't know what's crawled up both your arseholes but please chill out. If you didn't want to answer the question, you could have just not replied. No need for the condescending attitudes.
 
etta said:
If this is a new architecture, Vega/HBM2 then I would assume they are getting ready to send devkits out. If there's a Spring 2017 reveal then I would think they'd start sending Scorpio devkits as soon as this E3, or Summer for sure.
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And yet the reports talk of "targets" like nothing's set in stone, but we're to believe devkits will be in the hands of developers within a matter of weeks? That's optimistic, I'd argue.
 
N.Domixis said:
Ps4 K devs have until scorpio launches to take advantage tho.
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Aren't Microsoft first-party already building games that work on One and on PC at higher settings? Don't most multi-plat devs have PC versions of their games? You would think Microsoft would be building a console that could make it easy to target both Scorpio and PC.
 
Sydle said:
Aren't Microsoft first-party already building games that work on One and on PC at higher settings? Don't most multi-plat devs have PC versions of their games? You would think Microsoft would be building a console that could make it easy to target both Scorpio and PC.
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That's the most likely scenario
 
Sydle said:
Aren't Microsoft first-party already building games that work on One and on PC at higher settings? Don't most multi-plat devs have PC versions of their games? You would think Microsoft would be building a console that could make it easy to target both Scorpio and PC.
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They are likely requiring any game developed for Scorpio to be a UWP, at which point they will try to get devs to plop that version on their Windows 10 store as well.
 
The one issue I foresee with Microsoft launching the Xbox One II a year after the PS4 Neo is the price differential. If the Xbox One II does launch and has a very noticeable increase in power, Sony could offer a discount on the PS4 Neo whereas the Xbox One II would be just launching. Making the PS4 Neo look more attractive to prospective holiday shoppers.
 
get2sammyb said:
And yet the reports talk of "targets" like nothing's set in stone, but we're to believe devkits will be in the hands of developers within a matter of weeks? That's optimistic, I'd argue.
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Maybe they've got the CU count down but have to decide on clock speeds only? Which shouldn't be that difficult?
I dunno, depends if AMD has already started pumping out Vega chips, or at least enough for the devkits.
 
And what will PC's be capable of at the end of 2017????.....i think MS will find themselves at the same power disadvantage as they are now!
 
Jessie.Bristol said:
The one issue I foresee with Microsoft launching the Xbox One II a year after the PS4 Neo is the price differential. If the Xbox One II does launch and has a very noticeable increase in power, Sony could offer a discount on the PS4 Neo whereas the Xbox One II would be just launching. Making the PS4 Neo look more attractive to prospective holiday shoppers.
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PS4 and Xbox One ain't going anywhere and those look much more attractive than either Neo or One 2.
 
Artvanderlay said:
Theres no way Microsoft would allow this reveal if they wouldn't gain a narrative from it. So either this is hey we know NEO is coming before us so were gonna say wait a few months and were gonna stomp it with our future awesome power.

Or heres the new Xbox 2 and were delivering it before anyone expected .

Which is more likely given the current market. Microsoft needs the surprise.
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Yeah as I said yesterday, giving Sony a 6-12 month head start would kill this console off before it's released.

Microsoft have been kinda great at locking down secrets since 2014 and I think they saw the reaction to the BC announcement and from then realised how great the response is to genuine surprise announcements.

Announcing Scorpio and its release for this year would be a pretty huge surprise.
 
Collingwood said:
Yeah as I said yesterday, giving Sony a 6-12 month head start would kill this console off before it's released.

Microsoft have been kinda great at locking down secrets since 2014 and I think they saw the reaction to the BC announcement and from then realised how great the response is to genuine surprise announcements.

Announcing Scorpio and its release for this year would be a pretty huge surprise.
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would be a hell of a surprise if it actually releases this year with target specs ...
 
If sony prices neo <=$400

and 1.5 is priced higher than that, I bet it's not gonna fare well for MS.

that's not even counting neo releasing a couple of months ahead.

If MS makes this thing work tho. oh boy.
 
ThoughtsOfSpeaking said:
I really don't know what's crawled up both your arseholes but please chill out. If you didn't want to answer the question, you could have just not replied. No need for the condescending attitudes.
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If you so desperately want to attach a number to it:
6 / 4.14 = 1.449 ~ 45% more of whatever given everything else being equal (hint it won't be)
 
ThoughtsOfSpeaking said:
All for devices that haven't even been revealed yet.
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This is more a failure of messaging on Sony and Microsoft's part. Once these rumors got out they both needed to issues statements or press releases to give some actual information instead of a swirling cloud of rumors. Iterative consoles are a sweeping change to the console landscape and people are intensely curious about it.
 
Collingwood said:
Yeah as I said yesterday, giving Sony a 6-12 month head start would kill this console off before it's released.

Microsoft have been kinda great at locking down secrets since 2014 and I think they saw the reaction to the BC announcement and from then realised how great the response is to genuine surprise announcements.

Announcing Scorpio and its release for this year would be a pretty huge surprise.
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Outside of the hardcore, did BC genuinely have that big a response? It always seemed and still seems that it preached to the already converted.
 
bidguy said:
would be a hell of a surprise if it actually releases this year with target specs ...
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That was my point.

If any company could afford to go all out and bleed some money to MAKE this thing successful, it's Microsoft. I think the rumours of Satya wanting to sell off Xbox were probably true, which is why Phil invited him to E3 last year conveniently for the BC announcement and to show Satya the genuine excitement that could be generated about a Microsoft product.

There is literally no other Microsoft branded product that could generate the excitement amongst a younger demographic like Xbox. I'd say Phil was highlighting that to Satya in order to convince him to keep the brand and even double down on it.

This is all pure speculation/guesswork of course. But why else would Phil have invited Satya. Just fits in my opinion.
 
ThoughtsOfSpeaking said:
Outside of the hardcore, did BC genuinely have that big a response? It always seemed and still seems that it preached to the already converted.
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Getting your core fans energized generally helps with word of mouth. Microsoft needs to have more wins like that more often if they want to compete with Sony who seems to have it down to an art at this point.
 
Wont the crappy CPU (if they are keeping the same netbook era jaguar as rumored) severely bottleneck a 6tflop GPU? You would probably need an i5 2500k at the minimum to not bottleneck a GTX 1070
 
Collingwood said:
That was my point.

If any company could afford to go all out and bleed some money to MAKE this thing successful, it's Microsoft. I think the rumours of Satya wanting to sell off Xbox were probably true, which is why Phil invited him to E3 last year conveniently for the BC announcement and to show Satya the genuine excitement that could be generated about a Microsoft product.

There is literally no other Microsoft branded product that could generate the excitement amongst a younger demographic like Xbox. I'd say Phil was highlighting that to Satya in order to convince him to keep the brand and even double down on it.

This is all pure speculation/guesswork of course. But why else would Phil have invited Satya. Just fits in my opinion.
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That's a good point but dunno, Satya seemed on board before that, he was even name dropping xbox at windows events and stuff, which is something MS has never really done before.

But I do agree with them taking a loss on their next console, they're doing it for sure, I've said it before and I'm doubling down on it still, there is no way MS is trying to make a profit on the console alone next gen, they want the most powerful thing they can put out and if it means losing money, they're doing it... But to put out a 6TF console in 2016? that's losing a SHIT ton of money if they're aiming for $399 which they should be, which I'm not sure if they're willing to lose that much. I think they're losing money next console, but I also think there's a limit, and a 6TF console in 2016 is above that limit.
 
Collingwood said:
That was my point.

If any company could afford to go all out and bleed some money to MAKE this thing successful, it's Microsoft. I think the rumours of Satya wanting to sell off Xbox were probably true, which is why Phil invited him to E3 last year conveniently for the BC announcement and to show Satya the genuine excitement that could be generated about a Microsoft product.

There is literally no other Microsoft branded product that could generate the excitement amongst a younger demographic like Xbox. I'd say Phil was highlighting that to Satya in order to convince him to keep the brand and even double down on it.

This is all pure speculation/guesswork of course. But why else would Phil have invited Satya. Just fits in my opinion.
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That was Steven Elop who left the company. He was a higher up Phil reported to. Satya has never hinted at selling the Xbox division. He has said he won't do anything different than what they are already doing.
 
tiredheadcrab said:
That was Steven Elop who left the company. He was a higher up Phil reported to. Satya has never hinted at selling the Xbox division. He has said he won't do anything different than what they are already doing.
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I remember the Elop rumours, but there were rumours of Satya too. Which to me, fits given Phil invited him to E3 last year in a bid to show him why Xbox should stay and be properly supported.
 
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