Support NeoGAF

[Galactic Barret]

Rigged! Rigged I tell ya!

the only reason he didn't win states like NY and MA is because they're in the Deep South!

You beat me. She didn't win NY because of policies, but because she was senator of the state and mentioned it AT LEAST 10 times in the debate. I never said anything about deep south, what?

Thank you for not addressing anything I've said, though.

I don't see how anyone can make such a broad claim. If anything, many Sanders supporters are extremely new and unfamiliar with the political process and political history in general.

Well, for me, I know about the politics because I have lived them. I haven't seen my father in 20 years because of the Rockerfeller(sp?) laws. I live in the lower-class spectrum and the conditions for myself and my family are not getting any better. I welcome the change because more of the same may work for you, but will continued to keep me oppressed as a young, black male.

The politcal process needs to be changed, period.

If this was true, the last thing they'd be clamouring for would be a revolution

They'd also be a lot more sceptical of a guy offering simplistic solutions to a host of complex problems

The thing is, Bernie has held these view points for longer than I have been alive and has never wavered at all. Will his policies take time to enact? Sure, but I am willing to give him that chance because I KNOW he believes in what he is saying. A person doesn't hold onto a concept for 30+ years, just to change when hes finally in power. I can't say that about Hilary or Trump, who are known flip-floppers.

Again, as a black male, I am all for a political and social revolution. It is basically what the country was founded on.

 

[FunkyMunkey]

It's classified information, that is the end of it. There's nothing else to say she has poor enough judgment to do something like this and should never be trusted with it again. Putting her in the top position of the country would be a grave mistake.

There are many levels of 'classified information' and if your others posts didn't show others here that you don't know what the fuck you're talking about, this one sure did

 

[BanGy.nz]

Seemed like he disappeared after his terrible comments on Hillary and Bernie conceding the entire southern half of the USA.

He stuck around a little while after that but I haven't seen him since that #BLM activist went for his neck.

 

[digdug2k]

This isn't conspiracy, its facts (MAYBE with the exception of the rumor)

Its hard to find a favorite part of this, but I think this is mine.

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

He stuck around a little while after that but I haven't seen him since that #BLM activist went for his neck.

I think he got put in the same cold storage as the Pope for Bernie.

 

[Galactic Barret]

Its hard to find a favorite part of this, but I think this is mine.

Did you click the word rumor?

Because, I can't verify The Hill report for myself, as I wasn't in the room when the people in charge said "Choosing the color plate to serve her (Debbie's) head on".

But, I guess its easier to cherry-pick a sentence to misconstrue than it is to engage in active conversation. My mistake.

Edit: The exact quote is: "There have been a lot of meetings over the past 48 hours about what color plate do we deliver Debbie Wasserman Schultz's head on."

 

[SolicitorPirate]

The thing is, Bernie has held these view points for longer than I have been alive and has never wavered at all. Will his policies take time to enact? Sure, but I am willing to give him that chance because I KNOW he believes in what he is saying. A person doesn't hold onto a concept for 30+ years, just to change when hes finally in power. I can't say that about Hilary or Trump, who are known flip-floppers.

Again, as a black male, I am all for a political and social revolution. It is basically what the country was founded on.

It is incredibly easy to hold consistent views before you obtain power. I wouldn't hold consistency as a sign of virtue until it is tested.

And look at Sanders. Look at his substantive, issue based campaign when he was a minor candidate, and look at the mud slinging and conspiracy spewing campaign it has descended into ever since he became prominent at a national stage. This is a man who has failed to prove he can hold onto his values when they are tested.

I've long argued that racial minorities shouldn't automatically hitch their votes to the Democrats. That the Democrats really needed to earn that vote. But throwing your lot with Sanders of all people is a terrible idea.

The guy is blind to racial issues. The reason he always talks about economic inequality is because that is an issue white people can care about. He then pretends it is a universal, colour blind issue while failing to appreciate how systemic racism uniquely contributes to poverty amongst minorities. Hell, this is a guy who is on record talking about the importance of the white working class vote over the minority vote.

Yes, the Democrats don't automatically deserve minority votes. But don't waste it on some guy who doesn't give a shit about you either

 

[Davide]

But don't waste it on some guy who doesn't give a shit about you either

Sometimes I gotta wonder if GAF is in some weird alternative reality...

 

[digdug2k]

Did you click the word rumor?

Because, I can't verify The Hill report for myself, as I wasn't in the room when the people in charge said "Choosing the color plate to serve her (Debbie's) head on".

But, I guess its easier to cherry-pick a sentence to misconstrue than it is to engage in active conversation. My mistake.

Edit: The exact quote is: "There have been a lot of meetings over the past 48 hours about what color plate do we deliver Debbie Wasserman Schultz's head on."

I don't really care about conspiracy theories on DWS (well, I do, because there's zero evidence behind any of them, and I hate seeing people lose their jobs because of lies and internet mobs).

I do enjoy watching the delusion behind "This isn't a conspiracy theory! Its all facts! (with the exception of the conspiracy theories... maybe)".

 

[SolicitorPirate]

Sometimes I gotta wonder if GAF is in some weird alternative reality...

Who is the candidate that declared states with large portions of African American votes irrelevant because they didn't vote for him?

 

[benjipwns]

It is incredibly easy to hold consistent views before you obtain power. I wouldn't hold consistency as a sign of virtue until it is tested.

He's been in Congress for 25 years. In electoral politics for 45 years. Elected to an office for a total of 33 years. Been one of the four highest elected offices of his state for a quarter of a century now.

How much more power does he need to obtain before the mask slips?

 

[SolicitorPirate]

He's been in Congress for 25 years. In electoral politics for 45 years. Elected to an office for a total of 33 years. Been one of the four highest elected offices of his state for a quarter of a century now.

How much more power does he need to obtain before the mask slips?

If you read the rest of my post you quoted, it would seem having a shot at the Presidency was the tipping point

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Hell, this is a guy who is on record talking about the importance of the white working class vote over the minority vote.

I mean, this is true. The minority vote is about 24% of the American electorate. The white working class vote is about 27% of the electorate. Then look at it this way:

1. If you genuinely want to help minority voters, you need political office - you need to have people in place to draft legislation and pass law.
2. If you need political office, you need to campaign in such a way that maximizes your vote.
3. Campaigning on white working class issues is more likely to maximize your vote than campaigning on minority issues.

Therefore:

4. If you genuinely want to help minority voters, you should campaign on white working class issues (or at least, dedicate relatively more effort towards them, given diminishing returns means you will eventually need to campaign on minority issues too).

That's not to mention that there's an enormous amount of cross-over between the two groups, given that both face crippling economic equality and unfair treatment at the hands of political and socioeconomic elites, so it's a false dichotomy to try and separate them out fully anyway.

 

[benjipwns]

If you read the rest of my post you quoted, it would seem having a shot at the Presidency was the tipping point

When did he have a shot at the Presidency?

 

[BlastProcessing]

Sometimes I gotta wonder if GAF is in some weird alternative reality...

Well seeing as Clinton has a huge lead in over Sanders, I don't think it's too much of an alternate reality. Clinton is 3 million votes ahead and will end this thing around 6 million ahead. At some point you need to step back and reevaluate.

I mean, this is true. The minority vote is about 24% of the American electorate. The white working class vote is about 27% of the electorate. Then look at it this way:

1. If you genuinely want to help minority voters, you need political office - you need to have people in place to draft legislation and pass law.
2. If you need political office, you need to campaign in such a way that maximizes your vote.
3. Campaigning on white working class issues is more likely to maximize your vote than campaigning on minority issues.

Therefore:

4. If you genuinely want to help minority voters, you should campaign on white working class issues (or at least, dedicate relatively more effort towards them, given diminishing returns means you will eventually need to campaign on minority issues too).

That's not to mention that there's an enormous amount of cross-over between the two groups, given that both face crippling economic equality and unfair treatment at the hands of political and socioeconomic elites, so it's a false dichotomy to try and separate them out fully anyway.

This plan seems to have failed spectacularly for him. It was worth trying and got him pretty far, but it was fundamentally flawed and was never going to get him across the finish line.

If you generally want to help minority voters, you need to convince them that you are listening to them. Sanders has had trouble getting over that hurdle.

 

[TI82]

Well seeing as Clinton has a huge lead in over Sanders, I don't think it's too much of an alternate reality. Clinton is 3 million votes ahead and will end this thing around 6 million ahead. At some point you need to step back and reevaluate.

and yet has much less chance of winning the actual election...

 

[Davide]

Well seeing as Clinton has a huge lead in over Sanders, I don't think it's too much of an alternate reality. Clinton is 3 million votes ahead and will end this thing around 6 million ahead. At some point you need to step back and reevaluate.

I don't think you're even really replying to my post. What I took issue with in particular is the notion that Bernie doesn't care about minorities. That's just absurd/nonsense.

 

[MHWilliams]

I mean, this is true. The minority vote is about 24% of the American electorate. The white working class vote is about 27% of the electorate. Then look at it this way:

1. If you genuinely want to help minority voters, you need political office - you need to have people in place to draft legislation and pass law.
2. If you need political office, you need to campaign in such a way that maximizes your vote.
3. Campaigning on white working class issues is more likely to maximize your vote than campaigning on minority issues.

Therefore:

4. If you genuinely want to help minority voters, you should campaign on white working class issues (or at least, dedicate relatively more effort towards them, given diminishing returns means you will eventually need to campaign on minority issues too).

That's not to mention that there's an enormous amount of cross-over between the two groups, given that both face crippling economic equality and unfair treatment at the hands of political and socioeconomic elites, so it's a false dichotomy to try and separate them out fully anyway.

Alternatively, you treat both voting groups as equal, not having to place one ahead of the other.

 

[Davide]

This plan seems to have failed spectacularly for him.

A self-declared (democratic) socialist in America has won 45% of the popular vote versus Obama's presumptive successor since 2008 and he's done it while only being funded by the people rather than billionaires and Super PACs. So this statement is pretty much hyperbole, I'm not seeing how he's failed spectacularly.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

This plan seems to have failed spectacularly for him. It was worth trying and got him pretty far, but it was fundamentally flawed and was never going to get him across the finish line.

That's two different arguments. I was talking about the presidential. In the Democratic primary, minority voters are a much larger proportion of the vote than white working class voters. If you want to win the Democratic primary, it makes most sense to campaign on minority issues. Sanders didn't do that well, I agree. However, when you get to the presidential election, it's a very different story. I mean, I suspect Clinton knows this, and I'm ready to bet she'll pivot towards the centre and start talking more about economic issues and less about minority issues as soon as the convention is done. It's just how politics works.

 

[SolicitorPirate]

I mean, this is true. The minority vote is about 24% of the American electorate. The white working class vote is about 27% of the electorate. Then look at it this way:

1. If you genuinely want to help minority voters, you need political office - you need to have people in place to draft legislation and pass law.
2. If you need political office, you need to campaign in such a way that maximizes your vote.
3. Campaigning on white working class issues is more likely to maximize your vote than campaigning on minority issues.

Therefore:

4. If you genuinely want to help minority voters, you should campaign on white working class issues (or at least, dedicate relatively more effort towards them, given diminishing returns means you will eventually need to campaign on minority issues too).

That's not to mention that there's an enormous amount of cross-over between the two groups, given that both face crippling economic equality and unfair treatment at the hands of political and socioeconomic elites, so it's a false dichotomy to try and separate them out fully anyway.

Which was basically the playbook that Bill Clinton wrote. At least with the Clintons, they've actually been able to build a rapport with the black community and are much more aware of and conversant on minority issues.

Bernie just stumbled onto it when thrust into the national stage, and shows clear discomfort and unfamiliarity.

When did he have a shot at the Presidency?

Never said he had a good shot, but before Clinton completely shut him out mathematically, it was possible.

 

[Galactic Barret]

I don't really care about conspiracy theories on DWS (well, I do, because there's zero evidence behind any of them, and I hate seeing people lose their jobs because of lies and internet mobs).

I do enjoy watching the delusion behind "This isn't a conspiracy theory! Its all facts! (with the exception of the conspiracy theories... maybe)".

So, basically, you just put your head in the sand and choose to ignore? All you had to say, bro.

It is incredibly easy to hold consistent views before you obtain power. I wouldn't hold consistency as a sign of virtue until it is tested.

And look at Sanders. Look at his substantive, issue based campaign when he was a minor candidate, and look at the mud slinging and conspiracy spewing campaign it has descended into ever since he became prominent at a national stage. This is a man who has failed to prove he can hold onto his values when they are tested.

I've long argued that racial minorities shouldn't automatically hitch their votes to the Democrats. That the Democrats really needed to earn that vote. But throwing your lot with Sanders of all people is a terrible idea.

The guy is blind to racial issues. The reason he always talks about economic inequality is because that is an issue white people can care about. He then pretends it is a universal, colour blind issue while failing to appreciate how systemic racism uniquely contributes to poverty amongst minorities. Hell, this is a guy who is on record talking about the importance of the white working class vote over the minority vote.

Yes, the Democrats don't automatically deserve minority votes. But don't waste it on some guy who doesn't give a shit about you either

Can you point me to examples of these? I haven't seen any of this for myself, and if its indeed the case, I would concede.

I'm not just for my "race". Thats selfish. I'm for my class, my station. As far as I'm aware, Bernie's infrastructure, tax, college, and wall street reform policies are all aimed at giving my class a fighting chance.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Alternatively, you treat both voting groups as equal, not having to place one ahead of the other.

Once in office, yes. That's not a very good idea on the campaign trail.

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

Once in office, yes. That's not a very good idea on the campaign trail.

Obama, and now Clinton are proving otherwise.

 

[BlastProcessing]

and yet has much less chance of winning the actual election...

No he does not. Polling isn't votes especially not polling at this point of the cycle. People in this very thread have argued that Sanders beat the polls in Indiana and Michigan so he can beat them in California and New Jersey. Dukakis was crushing it in polls at this point in the cycle.

Sanders is a candidate who has not been exposed to the public. He has been attacked once in the Primary in a substantive way and that was at teh Florida debate. How dod Florida go for him again? Is Florida an important state? How do you think it would go in a general when there are inescapable commercials with video of Sanders praising Cuba?

How do you think Ohio and Pennsylvania will react to the stories about how when he was chair of the Veterans Affairs Committee while dozens of Vets died waiting for medical care? How do you think it will go over in the first debate where he has to spend 10 minutes defending the fact that he honeymooned in the USSR?

Clinton treated Sanders with kids gloves because going negative early hurts her. The GOP sure as hell didn't attack Sanders because they wanted him to win.

I don't think you're even really replying to my post. What I took issue with in particular is the notion that Bernie doesn't care about minorities. That's just absurd/nonsense.

He has not been able to convince the electorate of this. That is what matters. He simply has not done the work necessary. It takes time to build the relationships, time to convince people that you are listening to their specific point of view. Of course he cares, but has simply been able to project that he understands.

A self-declared (democratic) socialist in America has won 45% of the popular vote versus Obama's presumptive successor since 2008 and he's done it while only being funded by the people rather than billionaires and Super PACs. So this statement is pretty much hyperbole, I'm not seeing how he's failed spectacularly.

In an election that awards delegates proportionally, his weakness in the south is absolutely a spectacular failure. It was fatal to his campaign. He is 3 times further behind than Clinton was in 2008.

 

[TI82]

how can anyone say bernie is deaf to minority issues when his best ad (and the best ad of this whole campaign so far) was all about minority issues...?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Syln8IkOIqc

 

[benjipwns]

So, basically, you just put your head in the sand and choose to ignore? All you had to say, bro.


Can you point me to examples of these? I haven't seen any of this for myself, and if its indeed the case, I would concede.

I'm not just for my "race". Thats selfish. I'm for my class, my station. As far as I'm aware, Bernie's infrastructure, tax, college, and wall street reform policies are all aimed at giving my class a fighting chance.

https://www.nationaljournal.com/mag...ight-everybody-else-is-wrong-clear-about-that

"...Sanders has indicated he's willing to use his fire-and-brimstone act not simply to influence a presidential election, but also to lay the groundwork for something of a "political revolution." "Let me ask you," he says, his gangly frame struggling to contain itself to our couch, "what is the largest voting bloc in America? Is it gay people? No. Is it African-Americans? No. Hispanics? No. What?" Answer: "White working-class people." Bring them back into the liberal fold, he figures, and you've got your revolution...

"He totally changed Burlington from a place that was run by cronyism and the old-boys network for the benefit of the developers and the business community," says Ben & Jerry's cofounder Ben Cohen, who opened up shop in town shortly before Sanders assumed office...

... Sanders, to use the early 20th-century term of art, governed more as a "sewer socialist" than a genuine radical...

...Clearly, a Sanders presidential campaign would be a tempestuous affair. As Graff puts it, "He has no social skills." The media, specifically, would be likely to find itself on the receiving end of his wrath. That's because Sanders—like many true believers of all political inclinations—doesn't have lot of patience for those who want to question him. "His idea of coverage is just: Report what he said," Graff explains. "And if he says it, it's important."

...Warren and Sanders, on substance, disagree about basically nothing. They both grew up working-class. Each has a loyal progressive following. (Sanders, for what it's worth, has more than double her Twitter followers.) Yet, watching Warren charm Charlie Rose, the differences between the two are clear. Warren speaks in a way that is designed to persuade and convert. Sanders, by contrast, proudly touts the tedium of his own rhetoric. He just wants you to eat your vegetables...

 

[G-Unit]

and yet has much less chance of winning the actual election...

Lol. Pretty sure América met soup óperas in this election.

I just wish people would rip apart Bush and Cheney just as much as they attack Hillary. But noooo, a damn mail server is way more relevant than lying to your people, killing so maby people and starting a huge wave of teerorism. América is such a sick society.

 

[benjipwns]

I just wish people would rip apart Bush and Cheney just as much as they attack Hillary. But noooo, a damn mail server is way more relevant than lying to your people, killing so maby people and starting a huge wave of teerorism. América is such a sick society.

Obama told us to move on.

Some people should have just had better fathers.

 

[Davide]

I just wish people would rip apart Bush and Cheney just as much as they attack Hillary. But noooo, a damn mail server is way more relevant than lying to your people, killing so maby people and starting a huge wave of teerorism. América is such a sick society.

As much as I don't like Trump it really made me happy for him to be negative on Bush in the town halls.

how can anyone say bernie is deaf to minority issues when his best ad (and the best ad of this whole campaign so far) was all about minority issues...?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Syln8IkOIqc

Honestly bewildering to me.

 

[TI82]

As much as I don't like Trump it really made me happy for him to be negative on Bush in the town halls.



Honestly bewildering to me.

Cult of personality or willful ignorance, who knows.

 

[Galactic Barret]

https://www.nationaljournal.com/mag...ight-everybody-else-is-wrong-clear-about-that

I don't wanna seem like I'm arguing for arguments sake, but isn't that... the truth? That the White working class vote more than those other demos?

I don't see much to get up in arms over that. Blacks and Hispanics need to vote more, not just when its an attractive candidate of their raace (Barack Obama) is running.

 

[D.Lo]

Well seeing as Clinton has a huge lead in over Sanders, I don't think it's too much of an alternate reality. Clinton is 3 million votes ahead and will end this thing around 6 million ahead.

I can't see her winning by 6 million votes.

And it's a disingenuous comparison, and always has been, since Sanders won lots of caucus states, and caucuses by their design involve less people (and have no direct votes).

Yes he would almost certainly have had less pledged delegates if there were primaries instead of caucuses in those states, but would also have been much much closer in vote counts.

 

[Galactic Barret]

how can anyone say bernie is deaf to minority issues when his best ad (and the best ad of this whole campaign so far) was all about minority issues...?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Syln8IkOIqc

Add this to that. https://youtu.be/KL8BpbWP7_8

Now, can someone point me to Bernie mud-slinging? And to some Hilary support of the African American community/lower class families?

Because, in my head, I have "Super Predators" (A while ago) and her turning away a young, black woman wearing a #BLM sign and asking her tough questions.(Recently)

If you need the videos, I got 'em.

 

[Feep]

I can't see her winning by 6 million votes.

And it's a disingenuous comparison, and always has been, since Sanders won lots of caucus states, and caucuses by their design involve less people (and have no direct votes).

Yes he would almost certainly have had less pledged delegates if there were primaries instead of caucuses in those states, but would also have been much much closer in vote counts.

Hillary makes up significant ground in those states if they transform from caucuses to primaries. 538 had a good article on this today, I can't link it because I'm on mobile.

 

[Jack The Nipper]

Trump is a damn genius, where's the pic of a bloody civil battle between hill and bern fans while trump is nicely safe and winning.

 

[Davide]

Now, can someone point me to Bernie mud-slinging?

And also not holding onto his values in the past few months?

 

[BlastProcessing]

how can anyone say bernie is deaf to minority issues when his best ad (and the best ad of this whole campaign so far) was all about minority issues...?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Syln8IkOIqc

A few things:

1. That is a good ad.

2. It has a super low view count. If Sanders wanted to use is power to highlight this he could have driven more eyeballs to it quite easily. His top ad has over 3 times as many views.

3. Ads do not a campaign make. Hell, Ben Carson had the best ad of this cycle. Seriously, watch it. It's great.

4. Ads only do so much. Politics are still local. They are still very much about talking to people and connecting with them. When Sanders was in the Vatican meeting the Pope, Clinton was in playing Dominoes in Harlem. This is a situation where Sanders large and impressive rallies work against him. They are very one sided. They hurt his ability to interact and connect on a more personal scale.

5. His stump matters. If you asked a Sanders supporter to name 3 pillars of Sanders platform, how many would mention a minority issue? It simply is not what he has stressed.

 

[Vagabundo]

Alternatively, you treat both voting groups as equal, not having to place one ahead of the other.

That's pretty radical.

 

[Toparaman]

I'm probably going to vote for Sanders in the CA primary just because it would be funny to see HilaryGAF squirm if he wins by a significant amount. Somehow Hilary's supporters perfectly resemble the candidate herself: pragmatic and realistic (good), but condescending and arrogant (bad).

I think Hilary would do a better job than Bernie in office tbqh, but seeing as her campaign and her supporters have assured me that she has already won the nomination, I'm sure they won't mind taking this small L for the sake of entertainment.

 

[G-Unit]

Sometimes i see myself wanting trump to win and shit all over América. Lol. Dude speak as if he has the leadership of Churchill. And yet somehow some people believe him.

I like Bernie but he became some sort of cult ñ and that mskes me sick. I see that in my country. People basically wordship our president and no one else is worth it.

Btw. I think calling people for changing opinion on subjects naive. One has to have a teeneger mentality imho to not realize over time people change view on things. Hell at some point I wanted to marry a Virgin Girl. How stupid I was to put a woman worth in such a thing.

 

[Galactic Barret]

Sometimes i see myself wanting trump to win and shit all over América. Lol. Dude speak as if he has the leadership of Churchill. And yet somehow some people believe him.

I like Bernie but he became some sort of cult ñ and that mskes me sick. I see that in my country. People basically wordship our president and no one else is worth it.

Btw. I think calling people for changing opinion on subjects naive. One has to have a teeneger mentality imho to not realize over time people change view on things. Hell at some point I wanted to marry a Virgin Girl. How stupid I was to put a woman worth in such a thing.

1. Thats kinda fucked up, dude. But, I do get it.

2. When money changes your opinion, thats a problem. That another reason I can't trust Hilary. I see her as "Personal Gain" personified; whats in it for me? Why would it benefit her to break-up big banks or reform Wall Street when they have given her money?

 

[Vagabundo]

I'm probably going to vote for Sanders in the CA primary just because it would be funny to see HilaryGAF squirm if he wins by a significant amount. Somehow Hilary's supporters perfectly resemble the candidate herself: pragmatic and realistic (good), but condescending and arrogant (bad).

I think Hilary would do a better job than Bernie in office tbqh, but seeing as her campaign and her supporters have assured me that she has already won the nomination, I'm sure they won't mind taking this small L for the sake of entertainment.

I'm not sure if you should use your vote just to troll GAF.

 

[AniHawk]

I'm not sure if you should use your vote just to troll GAF.

i'm pretty sure it's what the founding fathers had in mind when they invented the greatest country in the universe.

 

[benjipwns]

I'm not sure if you should use your vote just to troll GAF.

It's not like it'll change anything so why not vote for self-pleasure?

 

[Chariot]

I'm not sure if you should use your vote just to troll GAF.

I think it would help, if Hillary supporters would apply to other Hillary supporters what they are accusing the Bernie supporters of. Help to bring down the condescending, belittling behaviour and treat them as humans, not some "male millennial"-goo.

 

[Condom]

If this was true, the last thing they'd be clamouring for would be a revolution

They'd also be a lot more sceptical of a guy offering simplistic solutions to a host of complex problems

Where is Bernie offering simplistic solutions? To which 'complex problems'? That's just another often used frame to keep voting for the establishment. Either you are purposefully spreading that frame or have been learned to think that way. I know the drill, they use the same tactics everywhere.

We establishment people may be corrupt etc but incremental changes are needed, don't vote for the outsider because they are inexperienced/populist and offer simple solutions to 'complex problems'.

 

[Toparaman]

I'm not sure if you should use your vote just to troll GAF.

Oh, I'm voting seriously on the rest of the ballot. And in any case, I only have a mild preference for Hilary. They're both pretty uninspiring candidates. Obama in 2008, now that was a candidate.

 

[Balphon]

Where is Bernie offering simplistic solutions? To which 'complex problems'? That's just another often used frame to keep voting for the establishment. Either you are purposefully spreading that frame or have been learned to think that way. I know the drill, they use the same tactics everywhere.

We establishment people may be corrupt etc but incremental changes are needed, don't vote for the outsider because they are inexperienced/populist and offer simple solutions to 'complex problems'.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/senate-bill/1206/text

 

[BanGy.nz]

Oh, I'm voting seriously on the rest of the ballot.

Vote for Kamala Harris pls.