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[duckroll]

Wait, did they try to redeem him? I thought it was only Charles who was offering to keep him safe/offer him a home at the school?

And yeah, the number probably isn't that big of a deal when he straight up murders 6 people in a pretty brutal fashion.

They absolutely redeemed him in the context of the film. If they didn't then while he's floating in the air helping Jean Grey rebuild the school, you would expect everyone else to tell him to fuck off, or for there to be a huge protest in the streets outside demanding him to be handed over as a criminal. Even the television report at the end was phrased as a sort of redemption story with the reporter commenting that it was said that he turned on Apocalypse at the end and helped to end the threat. It's really shameful!

The only real difference a number makes is: is Magneto worse than Hitler? So, the nazis were bad and "created" Magneto. At what point is Magneto worse? He must have killed so many innocent people at this point. The people who ratted him out probably thought he was a dangerous criminal who was escaping justice. But since Magneto doesn't think he should be helt accountable for anything he does or anyone he kills he's shown as more a genocidal maniac than anyting else. Both Days of Future Past and Apocalypse really have no idea of how to make his actions sympathetic.

Magneto isn't worse than Hitler because Magneto isn't real. I think that's the one thing that makes it easier to swallow. Lol.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

They need to stop trying to redeem Magneto in these First Class movies. Just let him change into the villainous, scheming old mags we loved from the first couple of films. It's been part of the central conflict of all three of these so far.

 

[fin]

Cool scenes with quicksilver, rad seeing wolverine rage killing dudes.

But this movie was a trainwreck. This is the first time my buddies and I stayed after the credits to made jokes about it.

It's ironic how they mocked X3 directly and it's just as bad.

Hope this bombs, give the rights back to marvel.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

They absolutely redeemed him in the context of the film. If they didn't then while he's floating in the air helping Jean Grey rebuild the school, you would expect everyone else to tell him to fuck off, or for there to be a huge protest in the streets outside demanding him to be handed over as a criminal. Even the television report at the end was phrased as a sort of redemption story with the reporter commenting that it was said that he turned on Apocalypse at the end and helped to end the threat. It's really shameful!l

Huh, I didn't hear the part where he's redeemed through a TV report. That;s..that's weird. Although it does give me an excuse to rewatch it over the weekend.

And I know Charles will always be willing to forgive him, no matter what he does and I expect his students will just go along with it too. Seems Hank is the only one who ever actually says anything and even then it's just sarcastic jabs.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

Hope this bombs, give the rights back to marvel.

Yuck, no

Even if this just breaks even they got them deadpool dollars to chase.

 

[biteren]

So i looked up what Essex was...

Spoiler

oh shit

 

[duckroll]

I think Marvel Rights Begging should eventually be treated the same way as Port Begging or general Platform Whining is over in Gaming. It's really annoying and adds absolutely nothing to the discussion. Makes it all the harder to even have reasonable discussions about what's good or bad in a film without every normal person rolling their eyes...

 

[Miles Quaritch]

So i looked up what Essex was...

Spoiler

oh shit

I hope Singer learns a lesson from Apocalypse and goes with a more classical design. I saw some pics of what Apoc could have looked like and it bummed me the hell out.

I can't find them right now, but it was pretty close to the original design from the 90s cartoon.

 

[The Silver]

I think Marvel Rights Begging should eventually be treated the same way as Port Begging or general Platform Whining is over in Gaming. It's really annoying and adds absolutely nothing to the discussion. Makes it all the harder to even have reasonable discussions about what's good or bad in a film without every normal person rolling their eyes...

I agree but I'd like to make an exception for the F4, they can't keep getting away with fucking up Doom

 

[Catvoca]

This movie was such schlock, but I kind of enjoyed it for what it was. It was big and dumb but had some fun stuff in there. The Magneto stuff at the start was particularly great, probably because he's the best actor in the film. JLaw and Sansa from Game of Thrones were absmyall. I hope they change things up for the next one, not sure I'll watch another one of these with the same cast going through the same problems with the same X-Men we've seen a bunch of times now.

 

[biteren]

I hope Singer learns a lesson from Apocalypse and goes with a more classical design. I saw some pics of what Apoc could have looked like and it bummed me the hell out.

I can't find them right now, but it was pretty close to the original design from the 90s cartoon.

i was really digging some of the call back costumes in the film so i certainly agree

This movie was such schlock, but I kind of enjoyed it for why it was. It was big and dumb but had some fun stuff in there. The Magneto stuff at the start was particularly great, probably because he's the best actor in the film. JLaw and Sansa from Game of Thrones were absmyall. I hope they change things up for the next one, not sure I'll watch another one of these with the same cast going through the same problems with the same X-Men we've seen a bunch of times now.

i can agree with this too, i liked the film for the most part

 

[Shaanyboi]

Big dumb fluff, but not an offense to the senses or good taste like something Michael Bay would produce. Just kinda shallow "look at people with powers do stuff".

New kids are good, Weapon X detour was unnecessary but kinda fun. Acouple half decent action beats. McAvoy continues to be a highlight.

Mags' whole thing was just dumb. His family's death was terrible, his turn at the end was uneventful, and his so-called redemption seemed so unearned. Apocalypse was just kinda dumb, so hey, that's pretty fucking accurate to the comics. And all the destruction porn was just boring after a short while.

There are worse ways to spend an afternoon. It's not great, but I had atleast a little bit of fun. Far from an embarrassing trainwreck like X3 or Origins.

 

[peaceiscloser]

If he's not brainwashing, then all the Horsemen come off as irredeemably insane when Apocalypse wipes out Cairo and they barely bat an eye.

The most bizarre thing to me is that Storm LIVES in Cairo, doesn't she? She's friends with all these kids (if they're not her family)

Did they all get killed? The destruction of Cairo was super brutal, but everyone acted like there weren't any real repercussions . . .

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

The horsemen be like

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFuMpYTyRjw

 

[Magwik]

"You're in my house now"
"You're going to need a bigger house!"
That line is easily worth the price of admission alone

 

[Boss Doggie]

What are they planning to do with Psylocke? Also is Angel permanently dead or something.

 

[Sean C]

Weapon X detour was unnecessary but kinda fun.

In terms of how necessary it was, I think it has a clear purpose: it's to give the rookies a chance to rescue the veterans and show that they deserve to be on the big final mission. It feels somewhat disconnected because in most such films they would be rescuing them from the main villain, rather than a basically unconnected character.

Apocalypse's awesome speech while launching all the world's nuclear weapons is something I'm happy they didn't use in the advertising, but paradoxically, they kinda should have used it in the advertising because it's his best dialogue.

 

[Boss Doggie]

Their rescue seems a bit contrived in that they didn't do most of the heavy work though.

 

[Sean C]

Their rescue seems a bit contrived in that they didn't do most of the heavy work though.

I thought that worked, seeing as none of them had been in combat before. It's particularly about progressing Jean's character and comfort with using some of her power.

 

[duckroll]

http://www.fandango.com/movie-news/the-missing-x-men-apocalypse-scenes-youll-see-on-the-dvd-750899

"There will be no alternate cut of this movie," he says. "There will be nothing like the Rogue Cut or anything like that. I'm not a big fan of director's cuts or extended editions, I never have been. In the case of Apocalypse, I removed what would be considered a conventional amount from the movie to protect what we call the collective experience of the feature theatrically. How it feels pace wise and movement wise."

In terms of which scenes were removed, there's an extended mall sequence, as well as a "farewell between Scott and his brother [Alex]," Singer reveals. "It's strange for the audience sometimes because they say, 'It's a good scene, why did you remove it?' But if you sat in a theater and watched it with all those scenes back in, it may seem good, but slow. And I don't want the audience to feel that."

"We do have a moment where Jubilee uses her powers that you'll see on the DVD," Singer explains. " I wanted more Jubilee."

Singer also went on to talk more about that extended mall sequence we don't see in the movie, describing an additional scene they had to remove and the old Robin Williams movie it pays homage to.

"There was also a significant moment that sadly I had to cut. When they’re moving through the mall and Nightcrawler remarks about the other people that “they don’t fear us.” And he thinks the mall is this paradise, and that was my homage to Moscow on the Hudson, when Robin Williams came over to America during the height of the Cold War and saw a Bloomingdales and thought it was a temple. But no, it was just an ‘80s mall!"

"I grew up in ‘80s malls!" he says. "I even rebuilt an arcade to match the one that I played in when I was a kid called Space Port. Sadly it just got removed from the first act. I made a big, sweeping cut. But I’ll put it back in sequence and it’ll be fun."

Dear Bryan Singer,

You could have cut out Weapon X and given us all this instead, and as someone who paid to watch your movie in the cinema I think that would have been more enjoyable.

P.S. Fuck you.

Lots of love,
duckroll

 

[Sean C]

You could have cut out Weapon X and given us all this instead, and as someone who paid to watch your movie in the cinema I think that would have been more enjoyable.

That sequence is useful for easing the kids into the action.

I'm looking forward to seeing the mall stuff on the Blu-ray, but I understand why it was cut, given everything else happening at that point in the film.

 

[Slayven]

http://www.fandango.com/movie-news/the-missing-x-men-apocalypse-scenes-youll-see-on-the-dvd-750899







Dear Bryan Singer,

You could have cut out Weapon X and given us all this instead, and as someone who paid to watch your movie in the cinema I think that would have been more enjoyable.

P.S. Fuck you.

Lots of love,
duckroll

Directors need to stop giving interviews like this, at least so close to the movie release

 

[duckroll]

That sequence is useful for easing the kids into the action.

I'm looking forward to seeing the mall stuff on the Blu-ray, but I understand why it was cut, given everything else happening at that point in the film.

The kids which had no real development whatsoever, so the audience had little reason to care about them other than the fact that the narrative happens to follow them instead of someone else? I understand why Singer -thought- it was a good idea to cut it. I just don't agree that the end result made for a better or tighter film. The film was already a mess, could have done with more color and fun.

 

[mcfrank]

Not sure how those numbers make any practical difference tbh. I mean he basically lost my respect when he killed... what... 6 guys in the forest? And that's before he was about to kill another 10 people or so in the factory. Apocalypse did it for him, but whatever, it doesn't make a difference. The way they depicted the Magneto arc was really odd. Clearly by the end Singer intended for the audience to sympathize with him and feel that he had gone through a dark journey and redeemed himself. But I don't feel it adds up. He's a psychopath whose reaction to any offense or tragic consequence is to blame non-mutants and then kill them for it. That's insane. Not in a bad way, because it's actually in tune with who Magneto "is" in much of X-men continuity, whether it be the movies or the comics, but the bad part is when they try to redeem the insanity with "oh in the end he helped the X-men". Wtf? No. That doesn't make it okay. Fuck that.

Magneto's arc was not to love humans, it was to acknowledge that the x-men as his family. He still disagrees with Charles at the end. The movie in no way tries to imply that he shares Charles' views at the end.

 

[mcfrank]

http://www.fandango.com/movie-news/the-missing-x-men-apocalypse-scenes-youll-see-on-the-dvd-750899







Dear Bryan Singer,

You could have cut out Weapon X and given us all this instead, and as someone who paid to watch your movie in the cinema I think that would have been more enjoyable.

P.S. Fuck you.

Lots of love,
duckroll

You might not be looking at this movie with the most open of minds.

 

[Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!]

The most bizarre thing to me is that Storm LIVES in Cairo, doesn't she? She's friends with all these kids (if they're not her family)

Did they all get killed? The destruction of Cairo was super brutal, but everyone acted like there weren't any real repercussions . . .

She's an orphan in the comics.

For real though, they made her the world's worst pickpocket in this movie. In the comics she's supposed to be some kind of world famous pic pocket and they decided to show it in this movie by having her get caught in the middle of the clumsiest most obvious pickpocket (not even really a pocket) sequence of all time.

 

[duckroll]

Magneto's arc was not to love humans, it was to acknowledge that the x-men as his family. He still disagrees with Charles at the end. The movie in no way tries to imply that he shares Charles' views at the end.

Please point out where I mentioned anything about him loving humans. You might also want to learn how to use this very useful feature we have called multiquote.

 

[mcfrank]

Please point out where I mentioned anything about him loving humans. You might also want to learn how to use this very useful feature we have called multiquote.

I guess I misunderstood what your complaint was.

 

[NealMcCauley]

Definitely has flaws but I enjoyed it much more than I thought I would. It felt like Singer was trying to make a live action episode of the TV cartoon more than anything.

 

[DeathoftheEndless]

Is it weird watching amateur X-Men take on Apocalypse? I haven't seen the movie to know how it plays out, but the premise seems like it would work better as a last hurrah for the old cast.

 

[Pineapple]

I enjoyed this film more than I thought it would. I don't really care for Wolverine, though, and his inclusion just seemed like a shoehorned advertisement for the next stand alone Wolverine movie.

Jean seems ridiculously powerful, though. Is she one the most powerful individuals in the X-Men universe?

 

[Sean C]

Is it weird watching amateur X-Men take on Apocalypse? I haven't seen the movie to know how it plays out, but the premise seems like it would work better as a last hurrah for the old cast.

I don't think so. I think that's a pretty conventional stakes-raising exercise, and only one of the rookies plays a main role in his final defeat (and in that case, for obvious reasons).

Jean seems ridiculously powerful, though. Is she one the most powerful individuals in the X-Men universe?

Jean at Phoenix strength is the most powerful being on the planet/possibly the universe (particularly in this universe, devoid of so many other Marvel characters).

 

[NIGHT-]

Enjoyed this one a lot. Felt it was way more enjoyable than Civil War.

 

[NIGHT-]

I hope Singer learns a lesson from Apocalypse and goes with a more classical design. I saw some pics of what Apoc could have looked like and it bummed me the hell out.

I can't find them right now, but it was pretty close to the original design from the 90s cartoon.

It's a shame too. Apocalypse was my favorite villain from the cartoons/comics. Almost seems like a step back with sinister now

 

[guek]

So i looked up what Essex was...

Spoiler

oh shit

#arnoldforsinister

 

[Zombine]

I personally wasn't in the mood to see this last night, but I went anyways. Some of the exceptionally phoned in performances compared to the other two films stood out to me, but I enjoyed it for what it was. I saw a brief glimpse of what the 90s film will look like, and I was incredibly excited for that. I enjoyed Quicksilver the most, and I spent a majority of the film thinking that Storm is incredibly attractive.

I felt as if the film did a good job with an incredibly garbage tier X-villain, but I do wish that they went with the more comic-centric prosthetics instead of Ivan ooze. Can't really hate on Isaac or the film for doing a 1:1 stupid transfer of a stupid character. It's not my favorite X-Men movie, but it's not X-3 or X-Men Origins. I still rank it below the first two and Wolverine/Deadpool, and I think they need to get Singer as far away from the franchise as possible because you can tell he's doing more harm than good, and I think that based on his involvement and some meddling at Fox that this was almost a fucking horrible movie.

Solid 6.5/10

 

[Bobby Roberts]

I'm not even sure there was much meddling from Fox. Pretty sure this is just Singer.

This has a lot in common with Superman Returns in the ways its disappointing, which is also a film he had almost total control over.

 

[Zombine]

Was Wolverine a Singer move? That scene, while cool, came outta fuckin nowhere and just felt weird. I know they had those reshoots to include Jackman, but man it genuinely just felt like it was stuffed in there.

Also, with the exception of the F-bomb, almost every joke in this movie was cringe inducing.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Was Wolverine a Singer move? That scene, while cool, came outta fuckin nowhere and just felt weird.

Can't see why it wouldn't be. It doesn't seem out of bounds to me. And as mentioned upthread, it's not really a "wolverine" scene, it's a Jean/Scott/Kurt scene, that uses Wolverine as their means to an end.

It'd be a weird movie if that sequence wasn't there, considering the entire trip in and out of Alkali Lake is the only thing that shows those three working as a team in any capacity. Take that whole sequence out and the climax becomes even more meaningless.

 

[DrROBschiz]

Mediocre movie but not nearly as bad as people made it out to be

I enjoyed it more that BvS personally.

Still.. after Deadpool, Civil War, and even DD season 2...

Its a tough crowd

This movie would have benefitted from a more focused and personal storyline. Doing Apocolypse might not have been the best story to adapt

 

[icespide]

what is the f-bomb joke?

 

[NealMcCauley]

what is the f-bomb joke?

Magneto works at a steel factory in Poland and saves a man's life. Other co-workers tell the police and they cam to take him in. Through a total but not surprising accident his wife and daughter are killed. Magneto goes to the factory and makes a grand speech about how he will kill everyone inside so their loved ones will know what loss is like. Right then Apocalypse teleports behind him, and Magneto says "Who the fuck are you?"

 

[duckroll]

Can't see why it wouldn't be. It doesn't seem out of bounds to me. And as mentioned upthread, it's not really a "wolverine" scene, it's a Jean/Scott/Kurt scene, that uses Wolverine as their means to an end.

It'd be a weird movie if that sequence wasn't there, considering the entire trip in and out of Alkali Lake is the only thing that shows those three working as a team in any capacity. Take that whole sequence out and the climax becomes even more meaningless.

I think his point wasn't so much "was having a mid-film sequence showing the young X-men working together as a team to resolve an incident before taking on Apocalypse a Singer idea" so much as "was making the mid-film sequence showing the young X-men working together a Wolverine and Weapon X set piece a Singer idea". If the involved of Wolverine and Weapon X in particular something Singer wanted to put in, or was it something Kinberg suggested and Singer was open to it? I guess we'll never know, but the fact remains that it sticks out like a sore thumb not just because of how disjointed the film is, but also because it flies against the closing scenes of DoFP which makes it a really strange continuity misstep.

 

[Hystzen]

What bugs me more about Magento in these new films is First Class sets him up as villain with his Brotherhood then DOFP happens. He in prison they break him out then he turns villain for some reason just because. Then we get this film with what ever the fuck this arc was. It like they have no clue what to do with him

 

[Jake2by4]

Does this movie explain what Raven did with Logan at the end of DOFP?

 

[duckroll]

Does this movie explain what Raven did with Logan at the end of DOFP?

No it completely ignores it, and she ignores knowing anything at all about it, and we basically just have to assume that it was actually the real Stryker at end of DoFP picking up Logan.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

If the involved of Wolverine and Weapon X in particular something Singer wanted to put in, or was it something Kinberg suggested and Singer was open to it? I guess we'll never know, but the fact remains that it sticks out like a sore thumb not just because of how disjointed the film is, but also because it flies against the closing scenes of DoFP which makes it a really strange continuity misstep.

That DoFP plothole we all spotted seems way too easy a spot for it to actually be something they missed. Not saying they couldn't have missed it, though - especially considering the discussion we had earlier about Magneto's family's death. They do miss things in these movies, and this one is sloppier than most of Singer's efforts (again, Superman Returns tier). But I'm still wondering if that whole "hole" is a thing they're specifically addressing in Wolverine 3.

Doesn't make it un-sloppy, of course, but it seems nuts to me that all these people involved and nobody said anything about "wait - that doesn't match."

But I don't think immediately saying "This part was good, so it must be Singer. This part was bad, so it must be Fox" is all that axiomatic anymore. Different Fox leadership, plus Singer's instincts when it comes to the X-Men haven't always been stellar in the first place.

 

[Jake2by4]

No it completely ignores it, and she ignores knowing anything at all about it, and we basically just have to assume that it was actually the real Stryker at end of DoFP picking up Logan.

Suspected as much. Jesus so many continuity issues.

 

[Zombine]

Suspected as much. Jesus so many continuity issues.

At this point it's to be expected and I'm ok with it. I turn off when I watch these movies.

 

[duckroll]

But I don't think immediately saying "This part was good, so it must be Singer. This part was bad, so it must be Fox" is all that axiomatic anymore. Different Fox leadership, plus Singer's instincts when it comes to the X-Men haven't always been stellar in the first place.

Absolutely agree with this point. Even when the management is BAD, I hate the idea of isolating things into "whatever is good must have been by the guy I liked, and whatever is bad is by the one I didn't like". That's reductionist and it's not how collaborative works are ever made.

But having said that, I don't think it would be unusual if Kinberg would have more investment in setting up things than Singer, and that Singer himself is simply less bothered by the "small stuff" as long as they work in his larger picture. That doesn't absolve Singer of anything of course, being the director it is his call in the end. But if like you suggested for example, that the inconsistency with the Mystique thing might be "explained" in Wolverine 3, then it would certainly mean that part of this story segment came from someone other than Singer, unless he is involved in Wolverine 3 as well? I dunno!