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[SPOILER THREAD] X-Men: Apocalypse

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I'm not even sure there was much meddling from Fox. Pretty sure this is just Singer.

I just don't think Singer is that good at comic book movies. This is one of those things like how in the Doctor Who fandom some people worship at the feet of Davies because he brought the show back. Yeah, Singer brought the X-Men to the big screen. We kind of owe him a debt in that sense...but his X-Men movies aren't very good at being X-Men movies.

It is insane to me that I would rather spend time watching the MCU's Scarlet Witch than Singerverse's Storm as just an example. Scarlet Witch is boring as hell and Storm is one of the most exciting and dynamic characters in all of comic books. X-Men is the ultimate ensemble project, all these guys are so engaging and complex and fun. How the hell is it even possible that so much of that is just left on the table in these movies? It's not even that these movies are bad. It's that they should be the easiest slam dunk out of all the comic book movies on the market and, Deadpool aside, they're just not. That is so frustrating. It makes me look less favorably on movies that are pretty much alright. If I couldn't so clearly in my mind see how great this franchise could be with just a little more TLC, I'm sure I'd like these movies much more than I do.
 
But having said that, I don't think it would be unusual if Kinberg would have more investment in setting up things than Singer, and that Singer himself is simply less bothered by the "small stuff" as long as they work in his larger picture.

And I absolutely agree with this! I can see Kinberg being like "hey, here's my idea for how we get the kids leveled up for act two, and it gives me an in for Wolverine 3" and Singer being like "Yeah, sure, we'll do what we did in X2, but better."

If I couldn't so clearly in my mind see how great this franchise could be with just a little more TLC, I'm sure I'd like these movies much more than I do.

I kinda dug into this a little in my review, but I think most of this ties back into the origins of the series w/ both Singer and Rothman back in 2000, where both of them weren't 100% on board with X-Men, and were constantly trying to figure out ways to dial the X-Men! part of the series back as much as they could. I've never gotten the sense Singer's looked at them (and he's said as much, I think) as much more than a means to an end. He mines source material for scenarios that are kinda/sorta interesting to him, and then he takes those scenarios and goes running off in his own direction, and the characterizations are bent to fit those scenarios, with no real regard for what the characters are actually like. He's never not done this.
 
http://www.fandango.com/movie-news/the-missing-x-men-apocalypse-scenes-youll-see-on-the-dvd-750899







Dear Bryan Singer,

You could have cut out Weapon X and given us all this instead, and as someone who paid to watch your movie in the cinema I think that would have been more enjoyable.

P.S. Fuck you.

Lots of love,
duckroll

So basically. We could have got more character development for the main cast. Actually turning Jubilee from an extra to a supporting cast member. And giving us a damn reason to care about Havoc and Cyclops relationship.

Instead... we just get a Wolvie fan service. -_-
 
I'm reposting this in here since I accidentally posted in the OT

I really hate this movie yall, really hate it. Why does Hive on Agents of SHIELD do a better Apocalypse than the one presented here? Why are Storm, Psylocke, and Jubilee shown so much in promo material but have 15 lines between the three of em and not a lot a screen time? Why in 16 years there ain't been really much of what made me like the X-Men as a youngin. Why is Beast able to be human? WHY DOES MAGNETO JOIN WITH APOCALYPSE.

Why does Batman v Superman, TASM 1/2 get shit on for being bad films when this movie is not a good film yet people are just gonna excuse it and move on as if it's good? Fuck this movie. If you see it, pay for a Civil War, Alice in Wonderland, literally any other movie and then sneak into X-Men
 
Apocalypse can't actually die right? I mean I'm hazy on the comics and animated show, but he seemed to keep coming back


And the poster saying not to pay for it, let people make their own minds up. It was much more worth the money than Civil war. The plot in that movie was trash
 
Why is Beast able to be human?
Science.

WHY DOES MAGNETO JOIN WITH APOCALYPSE.
Explained at some length.

Apocalypse can't actually die right? I mean I'm hazy on the comics and animated show, but he seemed to keep coming back
In the comics he has a Lazarus Chamber and a dizzying array of other plot devices to keep him in the game. In the movies he doesn't appear to have anything like that.
 
No it completely ignores it, and she ignores knowing anything at all about it, and we basically just have to assume that it was actually the real Stryker at end of DoFP picking up Logan.

While the movie doesn't directly address it, we learn that Mystique has been busy rescuing mutants.

What we do know is Mystique used Stryker's identity and resources to rescue Logan from the lake. Based on what we know from Apocalypse, I'm going to assume she got him out of that situation and that's all. Eventually in the following 10 years, the real Stryker catches up with him having noticed what he can do earlier in the film.

It's odd given that there was ample opportunity to address this during the Alkali Lake sequence, maybe there's a deleted scene, but I never thought for a second she had something nefarious in mind at the end of DOFP, given how distraught she was over the testing on mutants.
 
Science.


Explained at some length.
Magneto's character is not someone who would join with Apocalypse. Kind of a core piece of his character. That's movies and comics. Plus, a man who went through the Holocaust, shouldn't join with a mutant who is all survival of the fittest

With Beast, the whole point is that he's a genius but people are afraid of him because he's an animal. That piece of him is gone with these movies. Hell, X3 had that part of his character done right
 
Magneto's character is not someone who would join with Apocalypse. Kind of a core piece of his character. That's movies and comics. Plus, a man who went through the Holocaust, shouldn't join with a mutant who is all survival of the fittest
The deaths of his family lead to him going full nihilist revenge mode, which is well within the character's spectrum. He already tried to exterminate all humans in X2, so even confined to movie continuity this is something he's capable of.
 
Nah, weapon X wolverine was awesome, never expected that on screen, the kid in me who had the toy X saw the fox cartoon was hyped when weapon X was on screen

lol jubaLee , don't even care if I spell her name wrong
 
Magneto's character is not someone who would join with Apocalypse. Kind of a core piece of his character. That's movies and comics. Plus, a man who went through the Holocaust, shouldn't join with a mutant who is all survival of the fittest

With Beast, the whole point is that he's a genius but people are afraid of him because he's an animal. That piece of him is gone with these movies. Hell, X3 had that part of his character done right

The deaths of his family lead to him going full nihilist revenge mode, which is well within the character's spectrum. He already tried to exterminate all humans in X2, so even confined to movie continuity this is something he's capable of.

I always thought that was the core irony of Magneto in the movies. He survived the holocaust but is unable to understand his crusade is exactly the same as the Nazis.

For Beast it looks like they might keep him in fur now that Raven's back and blue.
 
Loved it.

Had some great moments, surprising amount of humor and I enjoyed Isaac-Apocalypse.
My complaints would be too many new things to introduce leaves certain things rushed and muddled. Namely the Horsemen should have just been three goons and Magneto
 
The movie was OK. People saying its anywhere near as bad as Last Stand are bonkers.

Could not stop laughing at the fact that not only is Mystique de factor leader, but she's also mutant Jesus!
 
"That wasn't that bad at all"

That was my immediate thought coming away from the movie. It wasn't great, certainly. But it wasn't bad.

I had problems with it. The most consistent one being that Apocalypse felt like the actor kept waking up from naps before filming his scenes. As a character, he was effective enough, but he was played so sleepy except for the small selection of scenes where he HAMS IT UP TO OVER NINE THOUSAND~!!!! I don't need him to be Apocalypse from the animated series, but it just felt odd that a character with his kind of beliefs and personality would be so sleepy. This is a guy who views the entire world as his playground and canvas to shape how he wishes. I don't need him to be quippy like Ultron, but I'd think some sort of levity would be present in his mannerisms. Not necessarily the kind of jokes, but something like when Angel is all emo about his wing being burnt and he says Apocalypse can't do anything for him, I would think he'd be amused at being told he can't accomplish such a trivial challenge. Some kind of....life, to him, you know? Apocalypse should have been the X-men's Thanos/Darkseid, but between only being in one movie and just not having much of a sense of presence from him, he was pretty disappointing. Which is a shame, because when he was actually amping up his epic self, that's when he became really engaging.

It was also structurally shakey in many places. Like, I don't really know why they included Charles' GF from the first movie or why Mystique randomly told Storm about Quicksilver's father, or why Appy chose those 4 mutants in particular. I definitely think that if you're going to take a traditionally good character like Storm and have her work with a guy whose literally trying to bring the world to an end, you better have a better goddamn reason than "I found this dude, he has pretty cool powers, gave me pretty cool powers, so I'm with him I guess." And Angel and Psylocke were just tacked on. It's not that I don't want Psylocke in this movie (because I do, she was cool), but if you're not going to do anything with her....it just felt like they threw together a bunch of ideas that were appealing either from a storytelling perspective or just an entertainment one, but couldn't find a way to weave them cohesively together.

But the movies biggest problems were that the strongest points of it were when I was thinking what other movies could come from it. A revisit to the Dark Phoenix Saga? Fuck yes. Alex Summers getting the Winter Soldier treatment and coming back to fight Scott later? Fuck yes. Potentially X-23 making it to the big screen. YES! But something as big as Apocalypse shouldn't be used as a stepping stone for other movies. It just makes for such a lame incarnation that his death scene is basically one big Phoenix tease.

But the movie itself was serviceable and hardly the BvS clusterfuck the reviews indicated it to be otherwise. But I also don't care about X-men nearly as much as DC characters, so I'm more sensitive about DC fucking up than I am X-men, so you could argue that is biasing me. Still, I didn't hate it. It didn't make me angry. I am not going to go into riot mode. I will not set things on fire because of it. Good enough.
 
While the movie doesn't directly address it, we learn that Mystique has been busy rescuing mutants.

What we do know is Mystique used Stryker's identity and resources to rescue Logan from the lake. Based on what we know from Apocalypse, I'm going to assume she got him out of that situation and that's all. Eventually in the following 10 years, the real Stryker catches up with him having noticed what he can do earlier in the film.

It's odd given that there was ample opportunity to address this during the Alkali Lake sequence, maybe there's a deleted scene, but I never thought for a second she had something nefarious in mind at the end of DOFP, given how distraught she was over the testing on mutants.

That's the only conclusion we are left to assume yes, but it's a shitty way to drop a plot point. It's obvious that it wasn't planned this way and they just decided to ignore it.

But that's how Fox tends to handle x-men continuity anyway so I'm not surprised, but I'm still disappointed.

Why does Batman v Superman, TASM 1/2 get shit on for being bad films when this movie is not a good film yet people are just gonna excuse it and move on as if it's good? Fuck this movie.

I've seen this movie getting a lot of shit online. The tides are changing, people are coming around. Why not as extreme? Because most people simply care less about the xmen than about batman, superman or spider-man. And to be fair, TASM2 deservedly gets shit on way more than TASM1 ever did.

I want Vaughn back. I've been saying it for years and it wasn't until Apocalypse came out that people stopped shitting on me for it.
 
OK film. Pretty much reminded me of First Class. I saw it, I had some fun, but it's pretty forgettable. Quicksilver was the best part. Magneto's story was all over the place, like the writers don't want to have him be the villain, but know they have to.
 
If Joss Whedon comes back & wants to do another death twist, maybe. MCU Pietro's death was mainly a decision made by Joss for the sake of the story (albeit a decision I still don't agree with).
I mean in Apocalypse, since a poster earlier said that Magnetos family is now dead.
 
Just watched it.

It wasn't nearly as bad as people have been saying, but it isn't nearly as good as DOFP. 6/10.

+The new kids
+Magneto's beginning story
+Fassbender and McAvoy continue to kill it as Magneto and Professor X
+Magnetic Forcefield

-Apocalypse starts off somewhat intriguing, but his motivations and ultimate plan are muddy...which is consistent with the shitty comic book character. He doesn't really do anything though.
-Horsemen are wasted for the most part. Angel is just a mook who dies, Psylocke is...just a random mook, and Storm is decent but she has nothing to do here.
-Magneto's redemption arc feels way too fast. Dude was fucking up the entire planet and he's suddenly forgiven and rebuilds Xavier's school like everything is cool.
-The Stryker/Weapon X scene that takes up about 1/6th of the movie is entirely needless.
-How they beat Apocalypse is stupid. Should have had Mags rip him in half.
-I've always found people who complain about CGI to be pricks. But yeah, this was too much CGI.
-JLaw and Rose Byrne were pointless.

Overall watchable, just a letdown. Civil War was a 8.5, BVS was a 3.5, and this sits comfortable at around a 6. They should give Vaughn another go at it, Singer has had 4 movies to tell his story and he doesn't have much more to tell, if this movie is any indication.

Apocalypse was never an interesting villain, should have just went with the Asteroid M storyline or Sinister.
 
I thought that was mainly Magneto's new family that he had since the events of DoFP? Magneto already had Pietro & Wanda in this universe as of DoFP.
Ah, ok^^ Havent seen Apocalypse and dont plan to in the next time, but I was curious since I expected some kind of deal aka "show the one sibling one time in the introduction and then we will use it in our franchise"
 
Ah, ok^^ Havent seen Apocalypse and dont plan to in the next time, but I was curious since I expected some kind of deal aka "show the one sibling one time in the introduction and then we will use it in our franchise"
Yeah, Fox's Wanda is likely elsewhere with Magneto's previous wife.
 
I hated the wolverine scene, worst part of the film for me. Why didn't it show gunshots Doing any damage to him?

Yeah it was hilariously toned down. Probably wanted to avoid risking a R-rating, considering how violent most of the rest of the movie already is. It's super funny how the scenes seem to be framed for full violence, but just had the violence removed. They could have done a much more intense and darker scene without showing much if they really wanted - just shoot it like a horror movie. Instead they had so many direct shots where you can see Wolverine getting shot up, you can see him slashing and impaling guards, but there's just no blood and no impact. It looked like a stage play at times. Lol.

Yeah, Fox's Wanda is likely elsewhere with Magneto's previous wife.

There's no previous wife. Magneto doesn't even know Quicksilver is his son, so it's implied that it was probably nothing more than a one night stand. There is probably no Wanda in this universe.
 
Which is surprisingly seeing as the opening sequence with the horsemen was graphic as hell.

Bodies being burnt alive, flesh being disintegrated with only skeletons remaining, someone being crushed into a ball with added bone crunching sound effects.
 
Saw the movie. Not as bad as The Last Stand, but definitely weakest of the trilogy so far. I agree with some of the critics who said this movie felt like a "been there, done that." The whole jab about how the third movies always suck pretty much paralleled this trilogy, well, in a less harsh way. Still, after watching this movie today, it felt like a whole lot of nothing and lacked any real meaningful emotion(other than Magneto and his family, which was probably the best part in the movie).

I actually laughed REALLY hard two times in the movie. One, when I found out Apocalypse was the one that gave Storm white hair, and two, when I found out Apocalypse is the one that made Charles bald. LOL!

People's reactions to this movie kinda make me want to see it more because, man. And I liked First Class and DOFP just fine.
Those two are better than this movie.

Wanda is dead now?
Didn't they show her with her mom when the missiles launched? She's still a child, despite being a child in 1973. Super mutant de-aging powers!
 
I liked it, but I won't pretend I wasn't also disappointed.

I hadn't believed early impressions, but Lawrence really phoned it in, and since she keeps giving inspirational speeches this murders any emotional impact the film could have. She's way too young to be Harrison Fording her way through a big movie like this.

Also had pretty major problems with Magneto's arc, but honestly all of the X-men films have this same problem to some degree. He's a villain, and even though you have likable, charismatic actors playing him he's still evil. At least Fassbender did a good job with what he had, and you can give the movie a little slack and assume that final meeting was more Xavier not being up to a fight rather than "You're a great guy, Magneto!" Reusing dialogue from the first X-men film supports this, the idea that they were bringing it full circle, though I still wanted some acknowledgment of his sins here. I'm even willing to give him a lot of slack for the police deaths, but you can't tell me those bridges and buildings we see getting destroyed were empty...

Certain fans will probably vehemently disagree with me, but ultimately the biggest problem with this movie is it felt like Singer doing a deliberately authentic X-men film for the first time. You have something like 18 major characters, many of them with insane powers, and you can't have that in a ~2 hour film and also give them the sort of things everybody expects from a decent film, like character development. In superhero comic books this sort of cast size (arguably) works, because you both have way more space/time to work in and ultimately the goal is more just to put a bunch of these unchanging action figures into crazy new situations every month. It's more comfort food for kids rather than actual dramatic art, or a soap opera if you prefer (and either way that's okay!). Comic fans don't expect things like character development -- they certainly don't get it, with rare exceptions -- but the standards are simply higher in film. In this tons of shit happens, but everybody is basically the same at the end. Singer and company are clearly trying to make a good movie, and some of it really works, but on the whole it almost feels like a MCU film and that's deeply unfortunate.

(I like a lot of comics, even super hero stuff, but let's not pretend 95% of them aren't disposable nonsense for kids, with no higher aspirations.)

The Weapon X stuff bothered me a little, but it was also largely inevitable even in context of Days of Future Past. (The future was shown to change in ultimately very small ways, though obviously they hinted at bigger changes out of the frame.) They still should have thrown some kind of line in there about how Stryker got Logan in the end or similar. It's easy to make perfectly reasonable excuses for it, but for something that was the exclamation point at the end of the previous film we shouldn't have to.
 
It was stupid to have it be mystique pulling up Wolverine in DOFP. If they just would have left out that eye flash, it would have solved so many problems.
 
Didn't they show her with her mom when the missiles launched? She's still a child, despite being a child in 1973. Super mutant de-aging powers!

I dunno how many younger sisters Quicksilver has, but none of them are Wanda because there's no way Magneto can be fathering multiple children over the years with a woman when he doesn't even know he has a son with her.
 
I liked it overall. My two biggest complaints were:

1) the apocalypse design was atrocuious. Hated it. It looked like an Ivan ooze custome from the beginning and it looked even more awkward in the movie. His movements were all boxy and stilted.
2) the story somehow felt way bigger than the amount of characters they had. Idk how to word it better t felt like to few mutants were involved. Especially Apocalypse's cult not gathering more people.
 
I dunno how many younger sisters Quicksilver has, but none of them are Wanda because there's no way Magneto can be fathering multiple children over the years with a woman when he doesn't even know he has a son with her.

I kinda WISHED his daughter(in Poland) was named Lorna. That would've been kinda cool(just for nods). Instead, she just was a elementary school version of Beastmaster.

Quicksilver was the only one I could believe was being his "age". He was a teen(just to give leeway, I'd be gracious and say he was in his early-mid teens) in 1973, therefor I can see him as being in his early to mid-20s in 1983. Everybody else, even Magneto.... nope. Given that Magneto was a young teen in the 40s, that would've made him in his 30s for First Class, 40s for DotFP and his early 50s for Apocalypse. They SHOULD'VE made Fassbender look more weathered and given him hair that was starting to go gray(and eventually white, like the Magneto we all know). That would've been much more believable and add to the fact that nobody recognized him(if he looked considerably older and weathered, people might not know he was the same guy in 1973).

Though, to add something positive, I DID enjoy that Quicksilver evac scene.
 
I dunno how many younger sisters Quicksilver has, but none of them are Wanda because there's no way Magneto can be fathering multiple children over the years with a woman when he doesn't even know he has a son with her.
Oh. Ohhhh. So my theory can still be right. Just that she is no mutant.
 
Wasn't Wanda referenced off-screen in a deleted scene for DoFP? There was also one picture of Peter with a younger sister.
 
Wasn't Wanda referenced off-screen in a deleted scene for DoFP? There was also one picture of Peter with a younger sister.

Yes, and they deleted it for a reason. Singer has zero interest in Scarlet Witch. Just face it, he doesn't care. You're all trying to find shit that isn't there. If they had even 1% of interest in exploring this, Quicksilver would have said something about his extended family in the film.
 
There's no previous wife. Magneto doesn't even know Quicksilver is his son, so it's implied that it was probably nothing more than a one night stand. There is probably no Wanda in this universe.
Pietro and Wanda are twins, so in theory they could both be around because of a one-night stand -- though the way his mother talked about Magneto in her scene in this film, I get the impression she knew him a bit better than that.

There's actually a reference to an older sister in the Rogue Cut, though evidently they aren't doing anything with that in the theatrical canon so far.
 
It's a massive twist on the traditional character, but I felt the new daughter in this film was supposed to be some variant on the Scarlet Witch. Control over animals is kind of a traditional witchy thing, you know?
 
First I wanna say, that titles intro is easily my favorite of the series.

That said, I was expecting something really, really, bad, but I enjoyed it. I was surprised that it got audience applause at the end, despite people enjoying it throughout (I guess it's not so surprising). Not as bad as Last Stand at all (though, I enjoyed the Wolverine rubble climb a lot more than anything else in this movie).

Apocalypse is a shit villain in this movie, though. Forget the design, there's just not enough substance to the guy and that's a bummer for him and a lot of the characters in the film. The "All New X-Men" crew are cool as well. Young Cyclops is perfect, does a great Marsden impression (I think, anyways). Weapon X stuff was cool, even though I feel the same way about that as I do about Spider-Man in Civil War: Unnecessary but happy it's there anyways. There's continuity issues and whathaveyou but after First Class it's kinda expected and that's fine.

Though I feel that was pretty silly that Apocalypse is the reason that Professor X goes bald (yeah, I know, of all the silly things in this movie, that's the one thing that made me twitch). And yo, Magneto should've died, I can't believe that fucker got away with everything he's done. Speaking of Magneto, Quicksilver should've manned up and told him "yo, you cryin' over yer other family, but I'm yo son. YOUR FIRST SON." Ah well.

The Moria situation was the best received bits of comedy in the movie, next to Quicksilver and anything self-referential.

Ottman is still a gawd on the Earth.

Kinda want Singer back for the next mainline film, but less Kinberg writing.
 
I liked it, but I won't pretend I wasn't also disappointed.

I hadn't believed early impressions, but Lawrence really phoned it in, and since she keeps giving inspirational speeches this murders any emotional impact the film could have. She's way too young to be Harrison Fording her way through a big movie like this.

Also had pretty major problems with Magneto's arc, but honestly all of the X-men films have this same problem to some degree. He's a villain, and even though you have likable, charismatic actors playing him he's still evil. At least Fassbender did a good job with what he had, and you can give the movie a little slack and assume that final meeting was more Xavier not being up to a fight rather than "You're a great guy, Magneto!" Reusing dialogue from the first X-men film supports this, the idea that they were bringing it full circle, though I still wanted some acknowledgment of his sins here. I'm even willing to give him a lot of slack for the police deaths, but you can't tell me those bridges and buildings we see getting destroyed were empty...

Certain fans will probably vehemently disagree with me, but ultimately the biggest problem with this movie is it felt like Singer doing a deliberately authentic X-men film for the first time. You have something like 18 major characters, many of them with insane powers, and you can't have that in a ~2 hour film and also give them the sort of things everybody expects from a decent film, like character development. In superhero comic books this sort of cast size (arguably) works, because you both have way more space/time to work in and ultimately the goal is more just to put a bunch of these unchanging action figures into crazy new situations every month. It's more comfort food for kids rather than actual dramatic art, or a soap opera if you prefer (and either way that's okay!). Comic fans don't expect things like character development -- they certainly don't get it, with rare exceptions -- but the standards are simply higher in film. In this tons of shit happens, but everybody is basically the same at the end. Singer and company are clearly trying to make a good movie, and some of it really works, but on the whole it almost feels like a MCU film and that's deeply unfortunate.

(I like a lot of comics, even super hero stuff, but let's not pretend 95% of them aren't disposable nonsense for kids with no higher aspirations.)

The Weapon X stuff bothered me a little, but it was also largely inevitable even in context of Days of Future Past. (The future was shown to change in ultimately very small ways, though obviously they hinted at bigger changes out of the frame.) They still should have thrown some kind of line in there about how Stryker got Logan in the end or similar. It's easy to make perfectly reasonable excuses for it, but for something that was the exclamation point at the end of the previous film we shouldn't have to.

I agree with all your points.

I see alot of people bitching about the lack of Jubilee in this movie.

Jubilee is kind of an ehh character.
 
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