Plus their surface book line is making apple fans jealous. MS isn't exactly sitting around doing nothing interesting in the hardware space. Some things may not be super successful but it isn't from a lack of effort.
Polygon: Xbox Scorpio will be a ~6 TFLOP system (v PS4K's 4.14), unveil soon, Fall 17
- Thread starter BUNTING1243
- Start date
...Scatter...
Banned
I can do my taxes on the Xbox One?
Yes. Open the web browser and go to HRblock.com
jeff_rigby
Banned
AMD Strengthens Security Solutions through Technology Partnership with ARM There is a ARM trustzone processor in every AMD APU that has a UVD which uses Xtensa processors as software accelerators for codecs. ALL critical DRM code must run in a Trustzone TEE and that includes the codec, encryption and decryption, Player, DTCP-IP for DLNA and Vidipath, HDCP2, Miracast, AACS 2 and BD+ for UHD Blu-ray and the embedded Playready for IPTV services like Neflix.
Since the UVD uses Xtensa processors and they are also vision processors; AMD APUs have ARM code middleware for gesture recognition using those Xtensa processors.
The XB1 has a huge block of ARM and Cadence (Xtensa and more) IP, all the accelerators and move controllers are Cadence IP on a ARM AXI bus.
A week after Microsoft announced their HEVC encode and Decode in the XB1, AMD announced they use the same hardware in UVD to do the same in Kaveri and Carrizo. Look up AMD UVD
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Video_Decoder said:
I have a thread on it here but I first started discussing ARM in the PS4 and XB1 in 2012 at Semiaccurate.
CrimsonEclipse
Member
I sometimes agree, like...I feel that some of the guys on their just sound like they have no idea what they are talking about. Maybe Ryan and the new chick are okay, but the others are cringe.
...Scatter...
Banned
You mean... like the original XBOX. What console isn't basically a PC? I don't understand the distinction. Like, are you saying that you think it will just run a standard desktop Win 10 and let you do whatever? Because no. Just no.
As an existing X1 owner personally I don't really care. I put over a thousand hours on that box and got my money's worth. I can always trade it in for $100+ to recoup some of my initial cost. My biggest desire is for my X1 library to work on Scorpio if that's possible.
supernormal
Member
Pretty much. It's not like they're taking games already announced and moving them to the new console like what happened with The Last Guardian and FFXIII Versus. All the games people were expecting on their Xbox One since the beginning of the gen will still be coming to the system. Now if they have some new unannounced exclusives for the Scorpio that's fine since those were not games I was expecting, much less expecting to play on my Xbox One.
Tntnico
Member
Exactly ! But I expert that the only "Scorpio only" games will be for VR games. I think MS doesn't want to piss off Xbox One owners. I think they will wait for the next iteration (2020) to do that.
Obscuritas
Member
We are not the average consumer, I'm also ready to sell mine but we would still be a minority out there. Who bought the console during the last two holidays, who will buy the Slim model are not gonna upgrade without batting an eye and this also applies to the PS4 crowd.
It' s like a lot of people cannot see no further than the end of their noses when talking about such a big, complex, mainstream market.
...Scatter...
Banned
The original TDP of the XBOX 360 was 198W. I wouldn't be opposed to them raising the thermal envelope as long as they have a solid cooling solution. I'm thinking the XB1 size is here to stay for Scorpio.
You would be fine, but european regulations wouldn't.
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
Why?
Lime Blockade
Banned
I don't think they would even do that. I'm sure Microsoft will use the same VR solution that Sony is using and use an external box that plugs into the console to give the Xbox that extra bit of juice, or at least something similar. I can't imagine them shafting ~20 million consoles out of VR just because they have the older console.
Jack The Nipper
Banned
Not sure why it sounds so crazy to you. Xbox was dropped just as fast and more hard.
Everything your saying can go directly to Kinect owners of 360 and more to the new one. They drop things outright all the time.
You are adding a lot of stuff to what I said. When did I say they would prevent games being made for the one. I said microsoft won't make games for xone.
This while idea that they will post off one owners is unfounded. Didn't seem to kiss off Xbox owners when buying 360.
Microsoft beliebws people get over things fast when something bigger and better hits and I agree with them. The guys that complain , most will get hyped as its launched and buy it anyways. Very typical. Don't see many Kinect fans being that sore about the drop either.
Well technically it wouldn't be in the middle of a generation, they'd be starting a new generation. At least if these rumours pan out, I don't see how xbox scorpio games are going to continue to run on xbox one.
With Neo coming out they're probably glad because they won't take as much heat as if it was just them.
About AMD Polaris10:
AMD Radeon RX 480 Graphics Card Running Doom 1440p Demo Spotted – Shown Off At Polaris Tech Day, NDA Lifts 29th of June 2016
The partial but clear, reconstructed shot is that of Polaris 10 (aka Ellesmere XT). The die appears to be roughly 232mm² which is the exact same number we have seen before. This makes it highly unlikely that we are looking at sheer coincidence and probably means that Polaris 10 GPU is, in fact, of that size. We are talking about the Samsung/GloFo 14nm LPP process here, so the size would be optimal in terms of yield and power efficiency.
However, if Scorpio is about the same size as Xbox One, and with AMD set to have next generation Zen PC/laptop APUs (Raven Ridge) by mid 2017, and with Microsoft wanting a pretty powerful console, that "ends the narrative" of being weaker than PS4 (soon, PS4 Neo) and Phil Spencer saying he wanted big numbers, etc. I would not 100% rule out a cut Vega 11 with a few stacks of HBM2 - 12 GB / ~512 GB/sec bandwidth.
Why not use HBM1? You can only have 4GB total, offically.
They'd no longer need the 256-bit external bus, or external GDDR5 /- 5X memory chips. A Vega 11 mid-size GPU with several CUs deactivated would also not have to be clocked nearly as high as Polaris 10 to get 6TF or more. Could even probably be under-clocked to keep things COOL. It's a question of TPD, thermals and BOM. AMD and Microsoft will choose or have already chosen the option Microsoft wants. Whatever it might be.
AMD Radeon RX 480 Graphics Card Running Doom 1440p Demo Spotted – Shown Off At Polaris Tech Day, NDA Lifts 29th of June 2016
The partial but clear, reconstructed shot is that of Polaris 10 (aka Ellesmere XT). The die appears to be roughly 232mm² which is the exact same number we have seen before. This makes it highly unlikely that we are looking at sheer coincidence and probably means that Polaris 10 GPU is, in fact, of that size. We are talking about the Samsung/GloFo 14nm LPP process here, so the size would be optimal in terms of yield and power efficiency.
However, if Scorpio is about the same size as Xbox One, and with AMD set to have next generation Zen PC/laptop APUs (Raven Ridge) by mid 2017, and with Microsoft wanting a pretty powerful console, that "ends the narrative" of being weaker than PS4 (soon, PS4 Neo) and Phil Spencer saying he wanted big numbers, etc. I would not 100% rule out a cut Vega 11 with a few stacks of HBM2 - 12 GB / ~512 GB/sec bandwidth.
Why not use HBM1? You can only have 4GB total, offically.
They'd no longer need the 256-bit external bus, or external GDDR5 /- 5X memory chips. A Vega 11 mid-size GPU with several CUs deactivated would also not have to be clocked nearly as high as Polaris 10 to get 6TF or more. Could even probably be under-clocked to keep things COOL. It's a question of TPD, thermals and BOM. AMD and Microsoft will choose or have already chosen the option Microsoft wants. Whatever it might be.
LukasTaves
Member
Most likely not, I took that as a stealth way to announce for scorpio.
But steam machines (that come with steam os) are the same, no? Not counting installing another OS over steamOS of course.
Interesting, so the ARM component is for codecs and encryption/decryption protection. I believe Intel also recently designed that hardware DRM chip in their processors to offer protection for things like Netflix and games against piracy right?
jeff_rigby
Banned
The 130 watt TDP is for the GPU only, adding in the CPU brings it up some and they have several government power boards they have to deal with. They are voluntary compliance now but they have a max navigational power of 70 watts for the 2017 consoles. Navigation as described in this paper.
jeff_rigby
Banned
Really for UHD media and it requires a trusted boot and TEE, in Intel's case not ARM but of their own design. I'm really not up on Intel so someone else might have a better take.
That is not what they are saying, they want the existing library that they own to be able to be played on Scorpio i.e. forward compatibility. To be fair this generation of games on consoles should be able to be played on any generation of hardware moving forward.
rokkerkory
Member
We will have to get a 3rd job
Tatsumi Oga
Banned
I'm glad we will soon find out what is true about this and what isnt. And if it's true, MS better not have that nonsense like they had with Xbox One, only launching in a few countries, but my country The Netherlands had to wait a full year. Don't pull that shit again.
Chaostar
Member
At E3:
Introducing the all new 4k* consoles!
*4k refers to price and not resolution target.
If Nvidia was involved we would get a 4K (price) console, a reality.
supernormal
Member
I was addressing a comment that implied that making upcoming games Scorpio Only would somehow be screwing over the fan-base. As I said, I wouldn't care about those games being Scorpio Only if they were never announced for Xbox One to begin with.
As for forward compatibility, I thought that was the point of these "iterative" consoles and I would definitely expect the Scorpio to play current Xbox One titles by default.
I don't really feel like they would be shafting anyone as these VR features where never promised to the original buyers. This is a new feature that requires new hardware that the original One doesn't have.
statham
Member
http://www.cute-calendar.com/category/zodiac-signs.html
Scorpio Zodiac sign is from Oct 24 - Nov 22, both the 360 and Xbox one launched Nov. 22. hmm.
Scorpio Zodiac sign is from Oct 24 - Nov 22, both the 360 and Xbox one launched Nov. 22. hmm.
Gamezone
Gold Member
Pretty much.
yea but is it 16 or 17
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
Why is everyone assuming Microsoft won't be willing to take a hit on the console?
Chaostar
Member
Well I don't speak for everyone, or whoever it is making that assumption, but if I had to guess I'd say it's because that seems to be the norm in the console market these days. Not a crazy assumption to make really *shrug*
Obscuritas
Member
We already discussed the entire "Scorpio = the first Xbox" thing, sorry but I'll just quote myself.
Furthermore, the 360 had a slow start (seasoned with a pinch of RROD spices).
Comparing a console to a peripheral, that's also a bit pretentious.
Sorry if I misread your post, but Microsoft won't publish Scorpio-only games anytime soon either.
It's not like starting a new freaking videogame generation is as easy as snapping your fingers.
Like someone else said, we are leaving behind few years of cross gen games in order to enter a phase where cross gen games will be the constant norm. Cross gen games/poorly optimized games, read that as you will.
LurkFish17
Member
Samurai G0SU
Member
This scenario is exactly what phil said in feburary.
Lime Blockade
Banned
Well you are right, but I don't think that would go over well with customers. The fact that PS VR will work with both the PS4 and the Neo while Microsoft's VR solution will only work with the Scorpio won't look good on them. Mind you they are most likely gonna release a slim Xbone model soon so that doesn't help the situation either, and I'm sure bad PR is the last thing Microsoft needs. Plus I don't think that would go over well with developers, make a PS VR game with a potential audience of ~40 million customers + Neo, or the Xbox VR with no customers yet.
get2sammyb
Member
Indeed. I appreciate that consoles are essentially PCs now, but Microsoft better have a very strong lineup of exclusives planned if they're hoping to kickstart a new generation, because third-parties are going to be targeting the 60-70 million PS4s in homes next fall.
I'm sure there'll be bells and whistles for Scorpio early adopters, but Microsoft is going to need first-party content to really showcase why its new machine is worth jumping to a new gen so soon over.
We'll see what happens!
(A lot of this applies to Neo as well by the way!)
darkinstinct
...lacks reading comprehension.
You are giving way too much attention to a completely voluntary decision everyone can back out of at any time without repercussions. The only limits that exist in the EU by law are power consumptions in standby mode. Yes, consoles are on the EU watch list and in 2017 the EU will check if power consumption went down or otherwise act. Guess who will have a problem because they don't do a die shrink? Microsoft on the other hand will be good, they will have the slim console in the market in 2017 which uses much less power than the original Xbox One. Sony will have an SKU with basically the same power consumption as in 2013 and I don't think Neo will use less power. So unless Neo is totally energy efficient (and weak) Sony will get a not so nice letter from the EU. Scorpio will release too late to be judged for the review. Which may or may not be the sole reason why they wait until late 2017.
uhh multiplats will still perform and look better on the stronger system
get2sammyb
Member
No doubt. But the multiplats will be like the cross-gen games we experienced at the start of this generation - they'll need to make their own stuff to really showcase the clout of the new hardware, as is the case with any new gen.
OdysseusVA
Banned
Has anyone gone to check on tim dog?
Wouldn't announcing a new console coming in Fall 2017 hurt their XBO sales over the next year as more people decide to just wait for the next platform?
Seems like the only reason to even talk about it at this year's E3 is to help deflect interest away from the Neo, which I have doubt is going to do much good since it is likely to launch way sooner.
Proelite
Member
$499 breakeven or slight loss.
$399 if HBM2 prices are drastically lower for MS due to bulk. They can get rid of the bus and have much simpler mobo while giving more TDP to the GPU.
LukasTaves
Member
They starting a new gen, they are moving towards a no generational future.
They have almost everything in place now:
- A single kernel ported to all devices
- A single app model supporting all the same APIs on all devices
- The single kernel allows a unified set of supported accessories, and stuff like kinect, hololens and even VR is universally supported across the entire platform.
- One of the supported APIs offers low level access for when performance is king
- A single store on all devices, with a single submission and cert process
- Xbox Live related APIs on all devices that allows them to bring their network and features everywhere
- One of these devices already is xbox one, the next xbox obviously will be too.
mugurumakensei
Member
Eh, PS4 just barely hits the mark for VR with some graphical concessions and it has a 50% GPU advantage over XBox One. The original XBox One just isn't going to get VR especially if the rumor about Scorpio using oculus rift comes true.
Chaostar
Member
Now if only those pesky developers and consumers would all jump on board, they just don't know what's good for them.
/s
Me too, I guess, but who knows? It might be a desperate times call for desperate measures situation depending on how well Neo/PSVR do.