Polygon: Xbox Scorpio will be a ~6 TFLOP system (v PS4K's 4.14), unveil soon, Fall 17

Art Vandilay said:
Congrats on getting married! I recently found out I'm going to be a dad so I'm kind of wanting to get this build under way sooner than later. It may sound horrible, but I'm planning on putting one of the rumored Xbox sticks in a TV in the nursery. Haha
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Zedox said:
And if MS had it their way (aka have all 3rd parties release their games on both PC and Xbox), they wouldn't care either way as they would still be getting a cut. I'm gonna build my PC but not until wedding stuff is over. :(

EDIT:


I was going to make a thread about UWP and the implications it has for MS and what's possible for the Xbox since it runs on Windows 10...but I haven't pulled the trigger yet.
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Congrats to the both of you!


As for having a baby and gaming, if snapping was available to app devs, I thought having a baby monitor sound/video be snap-able would be a great thing for that scenario.
 
UWP is not some magic shit that makes every Scorpio game playable on XB1, you can always make a Scorpio game that XB1 can't even play it at 1fps, and that's especially the case for games created around Scorpio CPU (I assume it will be Zen).
 
Chobel said:
UWP is not some magic shit that makes every Scorpio game playable on XB1, you can always make a Scorpio game that XB1 can't even play it at 1fps.
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Dammit, Chobel, we were getting along so well. But what you're saying is kind of obvious. There will obviously always be limits on the older hardware, if I'm understanding you correctly.
 
Chobel said:
UWP is not some magic shit that makes every Scorpio game playable on XB1, you can always make a Scorpio game that XB1 can't even play it at 1fps, and that's especially the case for games created around Scorpio CPU (I assume it will be Zen).
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Who said it would be?
 
Zedox said:
And if MS had it their way (aka have all 3rd parties release their games on both PC and Xbox), they wouldn't care either way as they would still be getting a cut. I'm gonna build my PC but not until wedding stuff is over. :(
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Oh shit! Congrats man.
 
Proelite said:
Why? Neo would have been out for a year with any hardware competition. Only meltdown is if Scorpio is not a noticeably significant upgrade when it's released.
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So you are confirming that Neo is indeed coming out this year and does exist and also confirming that Scropio does exist and will be in FACT releasing one year later?

Last time I checked...all things are still rumored/not concrete.

:p
 
Chobel said:
UWP is not some magic shit that makes every Scorpio game playable on XB1, you can always make a Scorpio game that XB1 can't even play it at 1fps, and that's especially the case for games created around Scorpio CPU (I assume it will be Zen).
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sure, checking a box and having all of your optimization magically done for you is a pipe dream. UWP streamlines some issues for sure but there is definitely still work involved for each platform
 
Chobel said:
Well, what's the point of mentioning UWP whenever someone says MS is gonna make Scorpio-only games?
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Someone said MS was making a Scorpio only game? From now on we should think of MS making UWP/Windows Store games and then wonder which platforms they will enable it on/develop it for.
 
Chobel said:
UWP is not some magic shit that makes every Scorpio game playable on XB1, you can always make a Scorpio game that XB1 can't even play it at 1fps, and that's especially the case for games created around Scorpio CPU (I assume it will be Zen).
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Basically this:
icespide said:
sure, checking a box and having all of your optimization magically done for you is a pipe dream. UWP streamlines some issues for sure but there is definitely still work involved for each platform
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What we'll get is something reflective of iOS devices and apps that require a certain iteration of the hardware in order for the software to run and at some point none of the new stuff will work, but that's years down the road.

Chobel said:
Oh shit! Congrats man.
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Thanks dude. :)

JaggedSac said:
Someone said MS was making a Scorpio only game? From now on we should think of MS making UWP/Windows Store games and then wonder which platforms they will enable it on/develop it for.
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Yea, I wouldn't even look at Scorpio only games for some years down the road after it is released. Like maybe 2 years after the release (when XBO is like 5 years old).

Samurai G0SU said:
Uwp relates to backward and forward compatibility right? Thats why i brought it up. I mean the wizards are doing 360 bc currently. Shrug.
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Yes, think of UWP as iOS/Android but for all Windows 10 devices.
 
rokkerkory said:
Yeah gonna be interested in final specs for sure! :D

Either way, I want both :D :D :D
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Yea, I most likely will get a PS4 Neo as I haven't gotten a PS4 yet and there are certain games I want to play on it (UC4, Horizon with the RoboDinos are really it). I'll get it for the single player exclusive games really as I'm not buying PS+ and XBL. Fuck dat.
 
Zedox said:
Yes, think of UWP as iOS/Android but for all Windows 10 devices.
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there are many many apps that are gimped or gated on non premium iphones. In fact, if ot works like IOS then MS will be in a world of hurt because unlike Apple hardware, MS devices aren't fashionable nor in the centre of one's life. Thinking of windows 10 as IOS is a pipedream. By the time windows 14 is out, they might have a controlled enviroment that could work, but it will take years of preperation, an unwavering vision AND lightning in a bottle.
 
le.phat said:
there are many many apps that are gimped or gated on non premium iphones. In fact, if ot works like IOS then MS will be in a world of hurt because unlike Apple hardware, MS devices aren't fashionable nor in the centre of one's life. Thinking of windows 10 as IOS is a pipedream. By the time windows 14 is out, they might have a controlled enviroment that could work, but it will take years of preperation, an unwavering vision AND lightning in a bottle.
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the iOS thing is what Microsoft is clearly going for. if it actually happens or takes hold remains to be seen
 
Montresor said:
Digital foundry threads will be delicious if PS4K and Scorpio come out and Scorpio ends up significantly more powerful. Absolutely delicious.
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I'm more interested to see if IGN will make a huge deal about the massive difference between 30fps 1080p Neo and 60fps 1080p Scorpio... When PS4/Xbone came out all they did was talk about "Well I can barely tell the difference between 30fps/60fps and 720p/900p/1080p."
 
Bryan Newman said:
I'm more interested to see if IGN will make a huge deal about the massive difference between 30fps 1080p Neo and 60fps 1080p Scorpio... When PS4/Xbone came out all they did was talk about "Well I can barely tell the difference between 30fps/60fps and 720p/900p/1080p."
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I'm very curious to see how review outlets handle these multiple consoles and how each game performs
 
Chobel said:
UWP is not some magic shit that makes every Scorpio game playable on XB1, you can always make a Scorpio game that XB1 can't even play it at 1fps, and that's especially the case for games created around Scorpio CPU (I assume it will be Zen).
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Well, of course. But you don't need uwp or any specific platform to make bad performant games.

But why would any dev do that?

Edit: Oh, i see what you mean now.

Yeah, uwp is not a magic button that makes everything run great, but there are indeed built in tools and apis designed to help developers create games that scale and run great across many devices. From both during development as real time performance monitoring too.
 
LukasTaves said:
Well, of course. But you don't need uwp or any specific platform to make bad performant games.

But why would any dev do that?
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he's not suggesting that they are deliberately making the game perform badly. the situation is more like: dev makes game, heavily optimizes and targets Xbox Scorpio. dev decides to "export to xbox one" build or whatever and the game runs like shit. You then need to optimize the Xbox One build, UWP doesn't automagically do that for you.
 
le.phat said:
there are many many apps that are gimped or gated on non premium iphones. In fact, if ot works like IOS then MS will be in a world of hurt because unlike Apple hardware, MS devices aren't fashionable nor in the centre of one's life. Thinking of windows 10 as IOS is a pipedream. By the time windows 14 is out, they might have a controlled enviroment that could work, but it will take years of preperation, an unwavering vision AND lightning in a bottle.
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1st. There won't be a "Windows 14"...Windows 10 is gonna be like OSX, always updating. There will be different versions out (RTM was version 10, then November's update codename: Threshold 2 was version 1511, and the Anniversary update is version 1607).

2nd. Apps/Games will be gimped and gated, but that's dependent on the developer, including Microsoft (just as it is with iOS/Android). There will be a certain point in which the older devices can't handle the new stuff and therefore won't be released on say the XBO, but that won't happen initially.

3rd. Years of preparation to make Windows into an iOS type of OS...uhm, that's been happening for over a decade...close to two: This article by Peter Bright explains a lot of this.

4. No, it's not a pipedream. MS won't be in a world of hurt because people get Apple stuff because it's fashionable. They would be in a world of hurt if they didn't market it right, to the core customer for each device and priced correctly for that customer (business or consumer).

I only used the Apple comparison to let people understand how things are being shaped up. In all actuality, UWP is much grander than iOS in what Apple uses it for comparative to MS. It's really up to MS to make it work though. It's not like its just gonna work on its own.
 
LukasTaves said:
Well, of course. But you don't need uwp or any specific platform to make bad performant games.

But why would any dev do that?
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Possibly MS (and their partners) in order to sell Scorpio? And I don't mean intentionally gimping XB1 software, either an afterthought port or don't port some games like at all.
 
Montresor said:
Digital foundry threads will be delicious if PS4K and Scorpio come out and Scorpio ends up significantly more powerful. Absolutely delicious.
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If Scorpio is released a year after I would expect it would be more powerful. Strange some believe Sony can tweak Neo in the next few months to match Scorpio specs, and Microsoft would just stand pat a year out from release.
 
Chobel said:
Possibly MS (and their partners) in order to sell Scorpio? And I don't mean intentionally gimping XB1 software, either an afterthought port or don't port some games like at all.
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Sorry, I misunderstood you really bad XD

But, as part of the uwp there are tools for helping achieving great performance. Back into Windows 8 Ms started adding these features to Visual Studio and DirectX.

I have no confirmation yet, but I think Forza 6 Apex and their dynamic settings are using some of that work (as in dynamically adjusting each setting to meet a desired framerate or resolution).

Of course none of that makes supporting many platforms magically optimized, but it's a step in making it easier and less costly.
 
icespide said:
I've actually heard having a baby leads to more gaming time because there are so many late nights just waiting for the kid to go to sleep
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Five week old twins here. It's a lie. Managed maybe four hours of gaming in that time.

Maybe with one it would be easier. (Hell, no maybe about it!)
 
e-gamer said:
Well, currently that 40% "more power" is like 900p v 1080p, ~10% on resolution and/or 3-4 fps less on performance.

And its much of a biggy...
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I'm thinking of it like this if the rumours are true: you know the amount of power needed to run the masterpiece that is UC4? That's how much *extra* power the xbox next will have over the neo. IF the 4.2 vs 6 rumours are true.
 
Chobel said:
Possibly MS (and their partners) in order to sell Scorpio? And I don't mean intentionally gimping XB1 software, either an afterthought port or don't port some games like at all.
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The main drive for Scorpio is to get users buying UWP games and hopefully digitally (for MS). They try to drive adoption of the console by just making a great console that can play great games. Selling the hardware is secondary to selling subscriptions (whatever they do next) and software. What MS is trying to sell is UWA and the Windows Store. That's really what all this ish is about for MS. I know I've said it before but that's truly the driving force. It's their ecosystem play and growing that to the point where people don't want to leave like Steam on Linux vs. Steam on Windows.

If they were smart and it makes sense is that they will show and market games using Scorpio but always let people know that it is playable on any Xbox device and to sell that cheaper version of Xbox console. Let's say the Xbox Slim is $249 and the Xbox Scorpio is $399 (which actually makes sense to me)...those ads would show the nice Xbox Scorpio version but at the end: "Xbox devices starting at $249"...I presume Sony would do the same thing with Neo. Both companies are trying to sell their devices through their ecosystem. They want a set of devices that can always run the previous stuff and new stuff until they are ready to "move on". These newer devices are just to keep stuff evolving, looking better and sell to consumers but it won't be in the forefront as we think of previous generations...it will be used more as marketing tools (to a certain extent). That's what I see from both Sony and Microsoft and it's hella smart.
 
FordGTGuy said:
You guys are assuming a lot with higher prices and launch dates.
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So your assumption is that MS will have its new console ready at the same time as the Neo and it will be the same price or cheaper, but considerably more powerful?

Last time Sony were only able to do that because MS had the dumb idea to build their new console around Kinect.
 
FordGTGuy said:
You guys are assuming a lot with higher prices and launch dates.

If Neo and Scorpio are using the same architecture then they would be under the same time restrictions.
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Except they are not rumoured to have the same architecture, and neo is rumoured to be coming well before Scorpio. Neo Devkits are already out in the wild. Ms won't be able to launch a more powerful system cheaper unless sony does something like Kinect integration, and MS launches a 6 Tflop system in 2016 while taking a big loss.
 
Curufinwe said:
They won't be anywhere near as bad as the meltdown Xbox fans and Xbox employees had on here when the PS4 was cheaper and considerably more powerful than the Xbone.
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Exactly. If Scorpio ships a year later it's to be expected that it will be more powerful. In 2013 you had MS employees damage controlling on GAF against a pretty obvious power advantage on the PS4 side. "There is no way we're giving up a 30%+ advantage to Sony" and "The truth will come out soon." Don't forget about the Technical Fellows.
 
justsomeguy said:
Five week old twins here. It's a lie. Managed maybe four hours of gaming in that time.

Maybe with one it would be easier. (Hell, no maybe about it!)
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As a father myself, I detect no lies here. Though mine is now considerably older and a die hard Halo fanatic, I recall any type of game time being a pipe dream when mine was a little tyke.
 
icespide said:
he's not suggesting that they are deliberately making the game perform badly. the situation is more like: dev makes game, heavily optimizes and targets Xbox Scorpio. dev decides to "export to xbox one" build or whatever and the game runs like shit. You then need to optimize the Xbox One build, UWP doesn't automagically do that for you.
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Damn, my edit was too slow XD

I re-read at it become more obvious what he was talking about XD
 
KinofChaos said:
Except they are not rumoured to have the same architecture, and neo is rumoured to be coming well before Scorpio. Neo Devkits are already out in the wild. Ms won't be able to launch a more powerful system cheaper unless sony does something like Kinect integration, and MS launches a 6 Tflop system in 2016 while taking a big loss.
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Except the DF article that says they match point to point with the GPU that seems to going to be in the Scorpio?

Curufinwe said:
So your assumption is that MS will have its new console ready at the same time as the Neo and it will be the same price or cheaper, but considerably more powerful?

Last time Sony were only able to do that because MS had the dumb idea to build their new console around Kinect.
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If DF is right then the biggest difference is the clockrate and that does not cost more money or take more time to happen but is up to the design they are both using.
 
For everyone that quoted my comment about DF threads - I just would really be happy in general for Xbox to have the more powerful console.
 
FordGTGuy said:
Except the DF article that says they match point to point with the GPU that seems to going to be in the Scorpio?
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A system is just a GPU now? Scorpio is supposed to be using new CPU architecture in 2017. Not just clock rate but a different generation CPU.

FordGTGuy said:
Except the DF article that says they match point to point with the GPU that seems to going to be in the Scorpio?



If DF is right then the biggest difference is the clockrate and that does not cost more money or take more time to happen but is up to the design they are both using.
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It's not just Clock rate, it is supposed to be using Zen CPU architecture, Sony is supposed to be using the same higher clocked Jaguar.
 
FordGTGuy said:
No rumor has ever been substantiated on Zen CPU architecture being used in the Scorpio except speculation in the forums.
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No rumour on anything has been substantiated.this whole thread is speculation lol. MS launching a year later with just a higher clock would be a disaster for them. No existing Architecture can give MS 6 tflops without the system being bug and expensive.
 
Asd202 said:
Why? If it released later and at a higher price point that should be expected.
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I'm expecting it'll come 6 months after BUT the same price. Phil quickly got rid of kinect and now they beat the PS4 in price, I highly doubt he will launch higher then Neo.
 
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