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[Dee Dah Dave]

It's okay increasing GPU power but the CPU needs to be good enough to feed it, along with sufficient bandwidth. Otherwise it's a waste.

From the leaks it seems that Sony are already clocking the CPU pretty high, and that largely matches up with the 4TF~ GPU, although still a bit crappy (jag cpu).

If they want more flops, they have to switch the CPU. This cannot just be done overnight, its a whole system redesign pretty much. Unless they already have it in testing and pre-production as an option B, the Neo would likely have to be delayed for some time.

Clearly MS are going for a more modern (and better) design, but that comes with a time penalty.

 

[MilkyJoe]

perhaps he just finds it amusing, like "look at all the passion of our fans"

I think that would blow up in his face, Hiroshima stylee...

 

[...Scatter...]

The conversation was fun and the discussion around potential specs was entertaining until some people started trolling with sarcasm throwing out outlandish figures. Then others took them serious and it all got derailed into "Look at these XBOX fanboys wanting things to be powerful and release soon, that can't happen because the competitor that I favor isn't doing it".

Now it's just silly. Let's get back to taking about Scorpio and leave the Neo out of this. It's not a dick measuring contest.

 

[Slay]

So there is nothing to stop Sony from increasing the clock speed later, unless they already start pumping out the hardware.

i can think of two things, power consumption and TDP. You're forgeting that you're dealing with a closed system, not some of the self PC build.

Yes they can up the clock, a BIT, but if the power difference turns out to be true, there is no way that they could match that, with anything less than a complete console redesign.

MS did that in 2013, but it didn't get them anywere near the performace of the Ps4, and they had a huge open space inside the console, a huge fan, and an out of the box PSU. Judging from all the previous Sony console designs, they will have none of the above for NEO.

 

[thuway]

Predictions for Scorpio:

1. Scorpio will signal the ethos of UWP. Any game that is developed for Scorpio is a game that is effectively a Windows store version. If you buy a Scorpio game, you officially own the PC version of the game on the Windows 10. Developer mandates to create everything in UWP will insure a forever backwards compatibility/forwards compatibility with future hardware because the code base can scale to whatever hardware you have.

2. 4K 30 FPS will be a target for a modern AAA title. Flagship MS titles will be the MAIN pick of the litter to show off 4K games. I imagine Microsoft will announce something along the lines of: "The Xbox games you own today are already 4K enabled when you start them on Scorpio. (Halo 5, Gears, Forza)"

3. In my opinion, Scorpio is NOT using a Polaris 480 chip. There is very little reason for Microsoft to bet the farm on clocking something at a rate that would be seen in PC rigs. Microsoft will more or less create a custom part that is a frankenstein of Vega, Polaris, and MS's personal innovations. They'll achieve 6 TF without breaking the bank in terms of clocks by moving to a card with more CUs.

 

[Dee Dah Dave]

Making games run in 4K would eat up all the extra performance and be a huge waste of the resources. Especially when owners of 4K sets are still a minority.

The hardware budget would be much better spent on native 1080p, high frame rates, image quality AND a graphical increase.

4K is no joke.

 

[MilkyJoe]

Predictions for Scorpio:

1. Scorpio will signal the ethos of UWP. Any game that is developed for Scorpio is a game that is effectively a Windows store version. If you buy a Scorpio game, you officially own the PC version of the game on the Windows 10. Developer mandates to create everything in UWP will insure a forever backwards compatibility/forwards compatibility with future hardware because the code base can scale to whatever hardware you have.

2. 4K 30 FPS will be a target for a modern AAA title. Flagship MS titles will be the MAIN pick of the litter to show off 4K games. I imagine Microsoft will announce something along the lines of: "The Xbox games you own today are already 4K enabled when you start them on Scorpio. (Halo 5, Gears, Forza)"

3. In my opinion, Scorpio is NOT using a Polaris 480 chip. There is very little reason for Microsoft to bet the farm on clocking something at a rate that would be seen in PC rigs. Microsoft will more or less create a custom part that is a frankenstein of Vega, Polaris, and MS's personal innovations. They'll achieve 6 TF without breaking the bank in terms of clocks by moving to a card with more CUs.

I'm hoping they will allow a 1080/60 resolution option if this were the case. I'm not buying a new tv until my one dies

 

[JumPeRJumPzZ]

Wait a 4x more powerful console announced at E3 2016 but releasing only in fall 2017?

RIP Xbox One

BS

Announcements like that wont kill Sales... this is just a myth people pull from their ass IMO.

 

[Bitch Pudding]

BS

Announcements like that wont kill Sales... this is just a myth people pull from their ass IMO.

Actually that's not a myth, it's business 101.

 

[JustDrive]

I would prefer 1080/60 with bells & whistles more than 4K. Decent 4K TV sets do a great job upscaling anyway, I can barely see the difference between 1080p blu Ray and 4K video on a 65" so Imo it would be a waste of resources.

 

[Shpeshal Nick]

BS

Announcements like that wont kill Sales... this is just a myth people pull from their ass IMO.

Huh? Yes it would.

 

[oti]

I'm personally dying to get it. I just hope they don't ditch HDMI-IN in the process. I still want that, and feel like it should be a permanent part of xbox from here on out. With that said, I love the Xbox One as a console, and feel like it offered an awesome value, but with all xbox one games planned to work on scorpio, and even more incredible things sure to be possible on scorpio, why wouldn't I want a scorpio over an xbox one? I'm getting everything , games included, that I love about xbox one in a much more powerful box that is capable of things that couldn't be dreamed of on xbox one, even at a lower resolution.

I hope they kill off HDMI-In and Kinect and Snap and all of that trash. Just make the best console you can do and max out on the hardware capabilities.

 

[mrklaw]

Predictions for Scorpio:

1. Scorpio will signal the ethos of UWP. Any game that is developed for Scorpio is a game that is effectively a Windows store version. If you buy a Scorpio game, you officially own the PC version of the game on the Windows 10. Developer mandates to create everything in UWP will insure a forever backwards compatibility/forwards compatibility with future hardware because the code base can scale to whatever hardware you have.

2. 4K 30 FPS will be a target for a modern AAA title. Flagship MS titles will be the MAIN pick of the litter to show off 4K games. I imagine Microsoft will announce something along the lines of: "The Xbox games you own today are already 4K enabled when you start them on Scorpio. (Halo 5, Gears, Forza)"

3. In my opinion, Scorpio is NOT using a Polaris 480 chip. There is very little reason for Microsoft to bet the farm on clocking something at a rate that would be seen in PC rigs. Microsoft will more or less create a custom part that is a frankenstein of Vega, Polaris, and MS's personal innovations. They'll achieve 6 TF without breaking the bank in terms of clocks by moving to a card with more CUs.

They'll be moving to a dual chip then? Because I can't see them having an APU with more CUs than 480 plus ZEN CPU cores on a 14nm chip at anything like a reasonable cost - 1080 is 300sqmm partly due to cost of production/yields.

I agree with your fist point - MS will use this to update their publishing contracts with third parties so that any Scorpio games are automatically also windows store games. Publishers are of course still free to release on steam as well but that move could really strengthen MS' windows store value

 

[thuway]

They'll be moving to a dual chip then? Because I can't see them having an APU with more CUs than 480 plus ZEN CPU cores on a 14nm chip at anything like a reasonable cost - 1080 is 300sqmm partly due to cost of production/yields.

I agree with your fist point - MS will use this to update their publishing contracts with third parties so that any Scorpio games are automatically also windows store games. Publishers are of course still free to release on steam as well but that move could really strengthen MS' windows store value

Klaw, I thought Vega had 40 CUs? Or am I mistaking it for another card.

 

[Dee Dah Dave]

I would prefer 1080/60 with bells & whistles more than 4K. Decent 4K TV sets do a great job upscaling anyway, I can barely see the difference between 1080p blu Ray and 4K video on a 65" so Imo it would be a waste of resources.

I wouldn't worry about it. They aren't going to go to the trouble of making this new (and good) hardware, only to render the same XB1 games in 4K. It's a ridiculous idea.

+10 extra team points for the Wizball avatar!

 

[Guerrilla]

I wouldn't worry about it. They aren't going to go to the trouble of making this new (and good) hardware, only to render the same XB1 games in 4K. It's a ridiculous idea.

+10 extra team points for the Wizball avatar!

yeah 4K seems overkill. I could see them going with a minium req of 1080/60 though, while I think its most likely that devs can do what they want.

 

[Klocker]

Shit hdmi in does not take any any resorces.


They had better keep it moving forward. Can't go back to the stone age of grabbing a remote switching inputs every time I want to go back and forth between tv and gaming... Same for snap. Love that shit

 

[SwolBro]

All this 4k talk. I don't see many 4k stuff out in the wild, even for monitors.

Plus, console games are barely hitting 1080p without issues, why all of a sudden we talking 4k? I'd be satisfied with a solid 1080p at 60fps for all games.

 

[thuway]

All this 4k talk. I don't see many 4k stuff out in the wild, even for monitors.

Plus, console games are barely hitting 1080p without issues, why all of a sudden we talking 4k? I'd be satisfied with a solid 1080p at 60fps for all games.

4K televisions are cheaper than ever, in 2018 will be even cheaper than before, and it's the next standard whether you like it or not.

And believe it or not, GAMES benefit most from the resolution because it kills all jaggies and gives a very smooth IQ.

 

[c0de]

And believe it or not, GAMES benefit most from the resolution because it kills all jaggies and gives a very smooth IQ.

The same was said for 1080p and was clearly not true. 4k without as will look better than 1080p without aa but it doesn't kill jaggies.

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

Klaw, I thought Vega had 40 CUs? Or am I mistaking it for another card.

You might be thinking of Polaris. The 480 revealed the other day has 36 CUs and is cut down apparently from a full Polaris chipwith 40 CUs and more performance.

 

[Caio]

4K televisions are cheaper than ever, in 2018 will be even cheaper than before, and it's the next standard whether you like it or not.

And believe it or not, GAMES benefit most from the resolution because it kills all jaggies and gives a very smooth IQ.

Yep, 4K TV are becoming cheaper and cheaper, and by the end of 2017 will be affordable for almost everybody.

Still I can't fugure out if this "Scorpio" will be considered a new ultra powerful XBox One Model/SKU or the Next XBox. E3 is very close, let's wait and see.

 

[c0de]

Still I can't fugure out if this "Scorpio" will be considered a new ultra powerful XBox One Model/SKU or the Next XBox. E3 is very close, let's wait and see.

It's neither and both.

 

[Bobnob]

I'm hoping they will allow a 1080/60 resolution option if this were the case. I'm not buying a new tv until my one dies

Same

 

[LowEndTorque]

I’m most interested in the plans for the unified Xbox/Windows 10 strategy.

Something that would really get me back into PC gaming is if they made the xbox OS available to PC’s. So you could have the option of booting up your PC in either Windows mode or Xbox mode. Plop your PC in your living room and boot up games and apps without having to do it through Windows. Then switch back to windows when you want to watch a torrent you downloaded or stream content from a website or something.

Having that plus the fact that all xbox exclusives will also be on PC in the future could very well get me shopping for some new PC hardware in the near future. Only concern in that scenario is that they will try to implement some kind of pay wall for online PC gaming

 

[mrklaw]

Klaw, I thought Vega had 40 CUs? Or am I mistaking it for another card.

Ah I was considering the 480, not vega sorry. Vega will be bigger but you won't just squeeze in four zen cores without impacting yields and therefore cost. If AMD/Nvidia could make larger chips on 14/16nm processes at a reasonable cost they would be. 6 months might be enough to iron out the kinks and mature things, but we'll see.

MS might be able to go to a two-chip solution if their UWP abstracts things enough for it to be transparent to devs.


Personally I don't think a monster machine in itself will make any difference in terms of market share - PlayStation has the brand around the world and is close enough in UK/US, and it has the lead and momentum. But if they position Xbox as a bridge between PC and console, between study and living room, I think they might have a chance to differentiate enough to do well. If all Scorpio games are cross buy/cross play with PC via windows store they could carve out some market share on PC too. And a deal with oculus to support OR on Scorpio wouldn't hurt either. I'd actually be tempted to get a Scorpio for the PC side of things more than if it is just a standalone console

If MS want to do this they have to show thy are in it for the long term - and it'll take more than one machine to do it

 

[karma2578]

Given the rumoured years gap in release dates between Neo and Scorpio, there's going to have to be a significant power difference over Neo for MS to try to convince people to buy it. If not then it'll sell poor.

 

[dragonelite]

4K televisions are cheaper than ever, in 2018 will be even cheaper than before, and it's the next standard whether you like it or not.

And believe it or not, GAMES benefit most from the resolution because it kills all jaggies and gives a very smooth IQ.

Pretty much im also considering to get a high quality 4k monitor because they are affordable
Right now.

 

[SwolBro]

4K televisions are cheaper than ever, in 2018 will be even cheaper than before, and it's the next standard whether you like it or not.

And believe it or not, GAMES benefit most from the resolution because it kills all jaggies and gives a very smooth IQ.

That's what people told me about 3d televisions. it doesn't matter if it's cheap if there isn't much content running 4k it doesn't matter, which there won't be since people are streaming now more than ever, and cable networks run mainly 1080i, not even 1080p on most HD channels.

Will some high end pc gamers get 4k and run 4k games in 2018? sure. I highly doubt the adoption rate will be where you think it will be. i could be wrong, but we'll see.

 

[darkinstinct]

Actually that's not a myth, it's business 101.

It's business BS. If someone can only afford a $250 SKU it doesn't matter if they announce a $400 SKU that arrives in one and a half years.

 

[mrklaw]

4K televisions are cheaper than ever, in 2018 will be even cheaper than before, and it's the next standard whether you like it or not.

And believe it or not, GAMES benefit most from the resolution because it kills all jaggies and gives a very smooth IQ.

People aren't aggressively upgrading to 4K though. They're upgrading when it is time for a new TV, so it could take 5-10 years before 4k is in the majority of homes. Obviously less than that for the audience you're selling a new console to, but the uptake isn't that fast.

Of course I assume that games at 4K/30 would also run in 1080p TVs with nice AA or perhaps even 60fps

 

[Bitch Pudding]

sry DP

 

[Bitch Pudding]

It's business BS. If someone can only afford a $250 SKU it doesn't matter if they announce a $400 SKU that arrives in one and a half years.

 

[c0de]

Pretty much im also considering to get a high quality 4k monitor because they are affordable
Right now.

A monitor or tv? I still have yet to see a4k tv panel with 200hz.

 

[darkinstinct]

Yep, 4K TV are becoming cheaper and cheaper, and by the end of 2017 will be affordable for almost everybody.

It's not about them being affordable, it's about being wanted. By now most people have an HDTV. A lot still have a 720p TV. And other than what tech savy people on forums may tell you, the average consumer buys a TV once every ten to fifteen years. Basically when it is not working anymore. 4K offers so little over 1080p. Bluray never took off like DVD did, hell, DVD is still bought in masses by people owning a 1080p TV. Why? Because they barely see the difference or don't want to pay extra. 4K BD will be much worse. And TV is 1080i/720p. Because the stations bought new equipment when HD came up and will use that equipment at least for another twenty years. Because higher resolution means higher bandwidth means higher cost.

4K is the same thing for console gaming. For PC it makes sense, you're sitting 15 inch away from the screen. But for a console it doesn't make sense. Especially since the resolution jump alone would eat away almost all the new power. 1080p will stay the standard for the next ten years on consoles (we might actually hit 1080p now, bye sub-1080p). That doesn't mean that some games will output at 4K but it won't be the case with AAA games.

In 2013 2 million 4K TVs were sold. In 2014 6.4 million. In 2015 that number went to something around 25 million. The number of total TVs sold? Stable at 250 million a year. Oh and 60 % of the 4K TVs go to China. So the number of 4K TVs in the rest of the world right now is under fifteen million (compared to about 1 billion HDTVs and several hundred million traditional TVs). You don't build consoles for that minority.

 

[MilkyJoe]

Yep, 4K TV are becoming cheaper and cheaper, and by the end of 2017 will be affordable for almost everybody.

They are already cheap as chips £379 for a 40 inch Samsung, for example

It's just people are not about to throw out their 1080s for no reason other than there's a nicer TV on the market.

 

[darkinstinct]

You don't want to understand, right? If you want a console and have a certain budget it doesn't matter what else is out or what might come next week for a higher price, you buy what is affordable and fulfills your demand. The people that buy a console for $400 are not the same people that buy a console for $300 or $200. Thus sales won't be impacted.

 

[MilkyJoe]

You don't want to understand, right? If you want a console and have a certain budget it doesn't matter what else is out or what might come next week for a higher price, you buy what is affordable and fulfills your demand. The people that buy a console for $400 are not the same people that buy a console for $300 or $200. Thus sales won't be impacted.

Hence this

 

[darkinstinct]

Hence this

Nobody ecpected current gen consoles to sell as good as they did. And it was only because the last gen was so stretched out. Customers were desperate for more power, that's not what is going to happen with Neo/Scorpio.

 

[MilkyJoe]

Nobody ecpected current gen consoles to sell as good as they did. And it was only because the last gen was so stretched out. Customers were desperate for more power, that's not what is going to happen with Neo/Scorpio.

I think you missed my point there

 

[c0de]

They are already cheap as chips £379 for a 40 inch Samsung, for example

It's just people are not about to throw out their 1080s for no reason other than there's a nicer TV on the market.

But they are not only cheap but many are also shit with 50hz panels. I don't think anyone wants these.

 

[AmyS]

Klaw, I thought Vega had 40 CUs? Or am I mistaking it for another card.

Vega 10 / Greenland is thought to have at least 4,096 stream processors, which means at least 64 CUs - 64 shader processors per CU, this would the same as the Fiji XT GPU, but with the newer GCN architecture.

If Scorpio uses Vega, it would probably be the more modest Vega 11 GPU.

 

[mitchman]

BS

Announcements like that wont kill Sales... this is just a myth people pull from their ass IMO.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_effect

It's a well known no-no unless the current generation is at the very end of its life cycle (like PS3 was when PS4 was announced).

Edit: This means any updated console being announced will almost guaranteed be on sale not long after to avoid hurting sales on the current generation.

 

[KinofChaos]

Predictions for Scorpio:

1. Scorpio will signal the ethos of UWP. Any game that is developed for Scorpio is a game that is effectively a Windows store version. If you buy a Scorpio game, you officially own the PC version of the game on the Windows 10. Developer mandates to create everything in UWP will insure a forever backwards compatibility/forwards compatibility with future hardware because the code base can scale to whatever hardware you have.

2. 4K 30 FPS will be a target for a modern AAA title. Flagship MS titles will be the MAIN pick of the litter to show off 4K games. I imagine Microsoft will announce something along the lines of: "The Xbox games you own today are already 4K enabled when you start them on Scorpio. (Halo 5, Gears, Forza)"

3. In my opinion, Scorpio is NOT using a Polaris 480 chip. There is very little reason for Microsoft to bet the farm on clocking something at a rate that would be seen in PC rigs. Microsoft will more or less create a custom part that is a frankenstein of Vega, Polaris, and MS's personal innovations. They'll achieve 6 TF without breaking the bank in terms of clocks by moving to a card with more CUs.

LOL no, just no. This is a massive pipe dream.

 

[wapplew]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_effect

It's a well known no-no unless the current generation is at the very end of its life cycle (like PS3 was when PS4 was announced).

Killing the Neo is more important than selling a couple millions more Xbox one.

 

[KinofChaos]

Killing the Neo is more important than selling a couple millions more Xbox one.

They won't be killing NEO in the slightest.....not sure where you get that from. Ps4 and NEO will sell well, better then X1 or scorpio.

 

[Guymelef]

Killing the Neo is more important than selling a couple millions more Xbox one.

Just like XBOX killed PS2.

 

[c0de]

Killing the Neo is more important than selling a couple millions more Xbox one.

This will lure the flies...
Edit: already worked.

 

[Mr Reasonable]

Scorpio at E3 this year must surely mean release this year/simultaneous with Neo early next year.

A November 2017 release would stall sales of Xbox One sales for a year or give them to PlayStation.

Best result for Microsoft could well be a release this year.

Fingers crossed here.

 

[LostDonkey]

But they are not only cheap but many are also shit with 50hz panels. I don't think anyone wants these.

I paid 399 for a 43 inch 4k and it is indeed 60hz.

4k TVS are dirt cheap nowadays unless you want a silly 65 inch or a curved thing.