if one actually cares about "censorship enforcement", they should be fighting the ratings system that already exists on every country that has videogames ever. Just look at consoles. You can't publish a AO game there, and every single publisher and dev ever that make such content scales back on what they do to be able to get less than AO. That's a far bigger issue than this is.
France considers new ratings and incentives to combat sexism in video games
- Thread starter Spring Drive
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if one actually cares about "censorship enforcement", they should be fighting the ratings system that already exists on every country that has videogames ever. Just look at consoles. You can't publish a AO game there, and every single publisher and dev ever that make such content scales back on what they do to be able to get less than AO. That's a far bigger issue than this is.
Arkam
Member
If it were in reference to this article yes. But based on the happenings of the last couple years not so much. Just look here at NeoGaf, seems a large portion are major advocates of widespread censorship (though most call it something else like "protecting" someone).
partyphone
Banned
they can certainly be used that way but that's not what's happening in this case.
this whole thing seems kinda weird. gonna have to think about it some.
partyphone
Banned
what censorship are you talking about?
LQX
Member
I see this line and I'm not sure what to make of especially in regards to violence as to me violence in most games is nearly always against men. If there were "equality" in regards to that, would there not need to be more violence to women in games? Rarely do we see women "baddies" in games. This is why I sort of do not think a GTA with woman protagonist might work, though we all want it, as I think the violence she might show other women would cause way bigger outrage than men killing men.
If so many are "major advocates of widespread censorship", you'll surely be able to show us some actual quotes to demonstrate as much?
Just because a certain subset of gamers get their kicks off of sexualized characters that are drawn like children does not mean that it's art that should be protected. Everyone knows it's fanservice and arguing that it's for the sake of protecting this or that is just hilariously sad.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
I sincerely would like to see some examples of this.
A solution would not only be including a female protagonist but also enemies who're women as well. It worked wonders for AC:Syndicate. I'm also sure they're referring to other more sensitive topics when they say "violence against women."
Obliterator
Member
If we are being honest this is incredibly true. Almost every game ever made is you mowing through hordes of men killing them in one way or another.
Thats why I'm against the negative aspects of this, because if we are being honest its all incredibly subjective. I still hope they do the positive elements of it though like giving financial incentives for being inclusive.
User 73706
Banned
GUYS GUYS
i haven't read the article OR the thread so i'm going to assume that this is a point that hasn't been made before
BUT
i think we shouldnt do this acaus of the censorship and muhmuh creative vision in tha videogaems
PS: i would share my opinion, but i can't back it up becoz i would get banned
i haven't read the article OR the thread so i'm going to assume that this is a point that hasn't been made before
BUT
i think we shouldnt do this acaus of the censorship and muhmuh creative vision in tha videogaems
PS: i would share my opinion, but i can't back it up becoz i would get banned
The depiction of that violence is very different. Highly sexualised acts of violence against individual men are just as uncommon in the current landscape as women who exist as disposable cannon fodder. Still, that's not exactly a subtlety you want to leave up to a government committee.
WaterAstro
Member
Soon for video games.
might take a while, pictures of imaginary boogeymen are hard to get
SpartanN92
Banned
I'm not from France so I'm not familiar with their government but the last thing I can imagine the gaming industry needs is Government intervention of any kind.
Obliterator
Member
Oh I agree but the term is so vague here, its just "violence against women". I mean there is huge levels of violence in general with a lot of games.
partyphone
Banned
Arkam
Member
If it's an art it should be protected IMO. Content does not matter. Even if ONLY the artist finds it tolerable.
partyphone
Banned
yes there have been a lot of them. video games are rife with sexism.
do you have a point?
AmaterasuOni
Banned
This. 101% this. Censorship is fascism.
Criticism is not censorship. All art gets criticised. It is ok, prohibiting art is not ok.
partyphone
Banned
but just because something is art doesn't mean we should encourage it. bad art is criticized as a matter of course.
Obliterator
Member
Again though legislation should be made and stated clearer. When you start to enact things with basic statements like "violence against women" that can mean anything and is pretty vague.
That's why you need to be very very careful with going forward with negative aspects of these things. Often the intentions are good but can be misconstrued or mishandled and instead lead to other things. Though this is just getting going so I'm assuming a finalized form of legislation would be much clearer with its vernacular to be fair.
Arkam
Member
Well in many of those threads there are a portion who say something analogous to "why is this allowed?" Which unless I grossly misunderstood them sounds a lot like asking "why is there not a system in place to censor such work?"
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
It's almost like this medium has some incredibly prevalent issues with sexism. Pointing out said sexism doesn't equate to censorship.
I think the bigger issue that gaming has yet to get over is that violence appears to be the main main vehicle game progression takes. If violence against women becomes a hot button issue, what response is there really for your violent game other than to remove female models and have all the violence take place against men, animals, machines or aliens? The way this article reads, the female protagonist as portrayed in the Tomb Raider reboot could have been an issue. Replace Lara Croft with Lawrence Croft and it would cease to be an issue.
You wouldn't think it would be so hard for so many people to read an OP, or the linked article, but there you go.
No, and you're not the only one who sees the non-existent censorship bogeyman everywhere either.
No, and you're not the only one who sees the non-existent censorship bogeyman everywhere either.
partyphone
Banned
it's weird that you guys are talking about censorship. this isn't a thread about censorship. it's about tax subsidies and a rating label.
I do like how they like to pretend like there's absolutely no limitation or censorship going on with other matters before this, like sexism is that one thing that can't possibly be absent from creative vision.
*goes back to play Hentai games and uncensored AO super violent shooters on consoles* (oh wait)
WaterAstro
Member
Not giving video game companies equal government tax crediting is discouraging it.
Garrett Hawke
Member
Quiet wasn't even that bad!
Prisoner KSC2-303
Member
I disagree, particularly with your "at best" scenario. As I see it, at best, it'll allow smaller teams to pursue ideas that may not be as mainstream or easily marketable. It doesn't have to be tokenistic, but it pushes for there to be at least some thought put into what level of inclusiveness or positive gender roles for both men and women are in a title. A little thought is all that's required.
I feel like not allowing the games to advertise on TV is going a bit too far. No tax credits and the higher age rating are fine in my eyes though.
Yes, a lot of games are sexist or have sexist elements. What's your point?
Yes, a lot of games are sexist or have sexist elements. What's your point?
partyphone
Banned
maybe there are a few people who have that(i have my doubts) but you claimed this to be a widespread problem. and i'm calling you on your bullshit.
User 73706
Banned
didn't you get banned for unironically making a 3/5ths Compromise joke in a Halo community thread before?
Arkam
Member
History has shown that can be a very slippery. By doing this the government would codify that one art type is superior over the other and therefore has more rights.
Another interesting question that this discussion brings up (beside the question of where to draw the line regarding what is considered sexist and what isn't for the purposes of these financial incentives/age ratings) is whether financial incentives for a certain type of content equal censorship of other content, considering many people here talk about censorship (which, in all fairness, may also refer to the age rating proposal). I guess one could argue that it is and one could argue that it isn't so yeah, I think it's kind of both, I guess?
EDIT: Ah, I see someone else has already sort of brought it up.
EDIT: Ah, I see someone else has already sort of brought it up.
partyphone
Banned
where in history has this happened? like specifically?
Arkam
Member
And we are done here. I insulted no one and tried to have a civil discussion about something actually imacts my work. GLHF
a guy just equated having threads discussing sexism to "promoting censorship". I don't think they were ever taught the meaning of censorship or opened a dictionary.
Gentleman Jack
Member
I mean, you are reinterpreting something you've paraphrased by someone you haven't identified, so at least you're acknowledging the possibility that you are grossly misunderstanding their intentions.
captainpat
Member
Is it likely to get enacted?
AmaterasuOni
Banned
Because the path is clear. If you get penalized from creating some abstact art (which "offends" couple of people in the internet), there's a probability you'll start self-censoring. When/if majority self-censors, the remaining few will be frown upon and eventually pressured to take that fascist path. Art dies. Individuality dies. There is nothing but drones left. Fuck that.
It's always a lose/lose situation when this happens. Let's burn some books and paintings, said the nazis. Let's bring them to Siberia, Stalin said.
partyphone
Banned
nudity isn't sexist.
but i know next to nothing about french politics so i don't know if this is a thing that is likely to pass. it's an interesting proposition and i kind of wish it went further than just sexism. but i'm still not sure it's the best way to go about this sort of thing. at least here in america there's a lot of systemic sexism in government and society that needs to be addressed and fixing those problems would likely have a ripple effect through our entire culture.
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