John Wick
Member
Negligible? When Scorpio launches in 2017 PC GPU will have moved on too
Polygon: Xbox Scorpio will be a ~6 TFLOP system (v PS4K's 4.14), unveil soon, Fall 17
- Thread starter BUNTING1243
- Start date
Negligible? When Scorpio launches in 2017 PC GPU will have moved on too
nekkid
It doesn't matter who we are, what matters is our plan.
You missed the point they were making.
DuckSlayer
Banned
Sony do seem to be in a hurry as everyone thinks they want to release this year and xbox is happy to wait until next chipset .. Not sure if youve been reading this thread up until now. In bulk the cost difference between chips wont be much the whole cpu/gpu will prob cost $60 at the moment in bulk. Hard to say how much extra te hbm mem will cost. Anyone got any estimated costs for zen / jaguar now?
DuckSlayer
Banned
How much cheaper do u think the ps vr costs to make than occulus?
John Wick
Member
Lmfao! Like you know how much the APU would cost.
LukasTaves
Member
They might hurry if they think Ms unified platform is a threat to them.
Say Neo release day and date with Scorpio, same performance, but Ms completely nails the platform unification and also brings all the games that have been skipping xbone through this gen, not to mention ramp up BC massively that offers almost all 360 titles as well OG xbone, along side tons of options to play those games with different price points so you can have pretty much a way to play your games every room of your house or everywhere you go?
I think it's on their best interest to get a more powerful box that could take on the higher performance crowd as soon as possible and try to get more people locked into their ecosystem so they might not feel as compelled to go to Scorpio when it's later to the party.
Unless of course sony has something planned about making their platform bigger than the console you play on.
Edit: That doesn't mean Ms will instantly crushes sony or anything like that, but I believe it would be stupid to ignore the threat or the potential a platform that can reach many price points and form factors has.
John Wick
Member
I wouldn't know and nor would you. But in Sony's case they are a hardware company and its being internally developed. So those savings can be passed on. Also they probably already have deals with manufacturers for some of those parts already. Might be getting better deals already etc.
DuckSlayer
Banned
I was a bit off it cost originally $110 now it prob costs about $60 or less .. Lets say the new one costs $100 for neo and $150 then for xbox that seems pretty resonable .. Theres no way ms or sony can afford for it to cost much more else they will have to put the proce up. 50% more cost for the newer gen chipset with amd predicting it will be that much faster seems about right. Id pay $50 more for the scopio ovee the neo. Question is how much does hbm cost?
http://www.gamespot.com/articles/te...-costs-90-more-than-ps4-to-make/1100-6416404/
John Wick
Member
MS only have the US and the UK. They haven't got the mindshare for the rest of the world. Also if that's the case what's to stop all current PC owners playing the so called games you mention on the PC without ever buying another Xbox???
Sony will have BC from now going forward. All the rumours point to it. So their platform will also have this too.
LukasTaves
Member
The xbox is only strong in Uk and Us (though late 360 numbers showed it did pretty decently in Europe as well), but to answer that and the fact that Pc gamers might not purchase a xbox that's precisely the point.
Their platform is everywhere, they want people on pc using it just as much they want people to buy xbones.
DuckSlayer
Banned
Since the occulus is higher res that will add prob $20 to the cost but in reality its pretty similar to ps vr so the cost will be similar to build. So add another saving of $50 for that. Id pay $100 extra for occulus as i can use it on a pc as well. Its obvious it dosent cost as much to make as they are preparing for a price war once they have mass production. Its hard to say who will build n sell more but both will be mass produced and get economies of scale. Occulus is a hardware company with far more money to invest in this than sony.
John Wick
Member
I thought Occulus was a kickstarter which got purchased by Facebook??
Didn't know they were a recognised electronics manufacturer?
We keep on hearing far more money and deeper pockets but non of those things have helped MS on the X1 front or Windows Phone etc. Zuckerberg has shareholders to answer to.
nekkid
It doesn't matter who we are, what matters is our plan.
The thing is, that until PSVR hits the market, as long as Vive is the expensive option the Rift just needs to be cheaper than that. They've got ~6 months to make hay while the sun shines, because once PSVR is released they will have to start being competitive.
LukasTaves
Member
Costs are probably not similar due the volume. Sony is most likely ordering millions of psvr at once, whereas Oculus and Vive probably in the north of a hundred thousand units if that.
I Reclaim3mer 117
Neo Member
If Scorpio is a great product and offers a different route to play really high end games I don't see why only people from US and U.K. Will buy it. I believe a good product can be a good product anywhere. Going by your logic then ps4 and xb1 shouldn't be selling at all since they're weaker and most PC versions of games are the best version so why even buy these consoles now? What does Sony having bc have to do with anything if Scorpio has full 360 and Xbox OG Bc most people digital 360 libraries of arcade games are incentive enough to buy that system too. Again don't see why these products can't both be successful why does one have to fail for the other to succeed.
uhh that remains to be seen. ps4 neo has the same architecture for a reason you know.
what do you think psnow is for ?
It was the IGN unlocked interview with him. Ryan asked if the xbox one was profitable because of all the price cuts etc and Phil laughs and responds with like "well uhh, the xbox division as a whole is profitable, so there's that" (paraphrasing)
Idk how anyone can think MS aren't losing money on the current box, if the deals don't tell you as much then Phil's comments pretty much cement it.
DuckSlayer
Banned
I can see you like to talk but not to research.
A) occulus has been designing rift for longer than ps vr and its for sale now they already HAVE manufacturing deals for the parts
B) sony is a private company with voting shares and yet Facebooks founder maintains complete control of Facebook
C) windows phone has nothing to do with the ability of Facebook to spend money to ensure Occulus outsells ps and vive
D) Occulus is a better product with better specs
DuckSlayer
Banned
Why the console wars? There's a neo thread isnt there...
DuckSlayer
Banned
Is it just me or is the thread full of .. But i want xbox to fail because i like playstation better posters?
How come so few of you actually talk about what specs scorpio will have and how cool support for occulus will be!
How come so few of you actually talk about what specs scorpio will have and how cool support for occulus will be!
bryanee
Member
I'm not sure that's entirely true.
Also you shouldn't post so many times in a row. I think you can get in a little bit of bother doing it.
LukasTaves
Member
I missed that part on the other response.
That actually still remains to be seen. Obviously they are making moves towards that but thus far they don't have a solution for playing ps3 games natively, ps2 games are being handled very badly, and psone is non existent.
Even for ps4 games they don't seem prepared to moving the platform beyond the console, and the neo development seems to be: You code and optimize for both as they are largely the same but on neo everything runs faster.
Given that even nintendo is moving to a device agnostic platform I suspect sony will too, but as of now nothing has been leaked or announced in that direction.
Sony will have BC for the PS4 in the PS4 Neo.
MS will have BC for Xbox 360 in Xbox One, and Xbox Scorpio.
I don't really trust Sony with BC in digital games only because of how they treated gamers this generation with previous gen digital games, but that's my opinion.
And you can be sure that Sony is worried about UWP (as is Steam).
DuckSlayer
Banned
Here let me google that for you..
Bing! http://gamerant.com/oculus-rift-sales-estimate-success-zuckerberg/
Oh whats that they sent out 100,000 dev kits alone!?!!
wapplew
Member
"Versus PS4K" is in the thread title and you surprise by the comparison talk?
DuckSlayer
Banned
Lol oh i guess because im new and i pointed out that scorpio will be better than neo i get criticised for it.
Bryanee .. Lol good point i dont want to get banned its a lot more fun posting than just lurking.
Bryanee .. Lol good point i dont want to get banned its a lot more fun posting than just lurking.
John Wick
Member
A) Sony have been making and releasing HMD long before Occulus even got their first product out? They are not an Electronic Manufacturering company with Sony's experience. Did you research that?
B)That doesn't mean Occulus has a bottomless pit now does it???
C) It's a great example of showing that a company richer than Facebook won't just throw money away or waste it???
D) It has a better screen but it's nowhere near ergonomically on par with the Psvr. And it costs more too.
get2sammyb
Member
I wonder if Microsoft will support their virtual reality initiative with original first-party content like Sony is doing, or if it's a box ticking exercise on their side.
LukasTaves
Member
That actually proves what I said.
I said each order being less than 100k units, if by many iterations they send 100k in total than most likely each order was smaller than that.
And then there's the public availability which isn't having many shipments as well.
Soby probably paid a high price for dev kits as well, but for consumer they are definitely ordering in the north of million units.
KinofChaos
Banned
PS now is not BC.....it is eventually to spread to other devices as a service ala TV's, Tablets....
Most likely not. They have other manufacturers to make the hardware and have 3rd party devs work on the software while they have Windows Holographic for them to build on. I think they are still taking a wait and see approach to it. I'm not mad at them for it.
Every thread has these, Xbox threads just happen to have the most haha.
Anyway seems to be a lot of downplaying going on here for something that isn't officially announced in any capacity, can we get back on topic at hand ie Scorpio and it's potential hardware.
Edit: Zed, you wearing a shalwar kameez in that pic?
get2sammyb
Member
I tend to agree with you. I just wonder whether they'll see much success from it if they're not really going to commit to it.
I mean, we'll wait and see what they're going to announce, but if it does turn out to be a box checking exercise, then I can't imagine it will gain all that much traction until they actually go all in with it.
They should get a lot of support from third parties since with UWP they can target PC and Xbox though.
LukasTaves
Member
Well they pretty much have no virtual reality initiative, they are building the platform, opening to 3rd parties and giving some examples to show what's possible.
Well, it depends on UWP really. If UWP shows traction through the Windows Store, that will bring devs who want to bring VR apps to the platform. If that happens, then more than likely OEMs will keep creating VR headsets. If HTC Vive is available through Windows Holographic (which I presume it will be from Computex) and if Oculus comes on board then I don't see why devs wouldn't make apps for the platform. And if they do that, the Xbox just comes along for the ride. It's all contingent on the success of the UWP (hence why MS as a whole is pushing for Windows 10 adoption and for devs to make stuff for Windows Store). It's all interconnected. That's the reason why I see Sony pushing forward with the Neo as fast as they are.
Wait which search engine did you use?
Outrun
Member
If people cannot simply talk about Scorpio in a Scorpio thread, and instead feel compelled to evangelize for another manufacturer, then perhaps the conversation is done at a 100 plus pages.
Regarding the Scorpio, I hope that the console itself has a built in mic so we can still use voice commands. Xbox Record That is the best.
Regarding the Scorpio, I hope that the console itself has a built in mic so we can still use voice commands. Xbox Record That is the best.
oldergamer
Member
All the talk about MS bringing games to PC. I think MS is bringing "certain titles to PC" as a way to push more publishers to do this in the MS store. I think it servers two purposes:
1. Help bolster MS selling PC games in the now unified store + push publishers to do the same ( being that selling both console and PC games in a unified store is something Steam or Sony cannot offer. ). To publishers, the more ways you have to recoup costs, the more money making opportunities there are for you. You will only have a single cert process for both PC and console.
2. MS is going to give title updates the Xbone titles that now have PC releases. The updated titles will scale up to the new scorpio hardware. So, those older and previously announced titles that won't necessarily drive sales of xbox one base model, can then help push sales of Scorpio. It makes sense if MS is doing the same work with these games on PC already.
So in my mind, either previously released or announced titles coming this year are getting PC releases and support to scale up to newer hardware. It's an effort to leverage money spent as a way to legitimize the MS store & provide consumer incentive to pick up the Scorpio over the base console. New titles announced or shown at E3 going forward possibly won't make their way to PC, and be used to drive sales of the Scorpio hardware while still supporting the base xbone.
I know many people here see MS making PC releases and think they must be stupid since exclusives are what drive console sales. I don't think MS has forgotten this, and they know that exclusives are the only way to differentiate yourself from the competitors, but this is simply leveraging money already spent to drive sales in a different manner during a transition period.
1. Help bolster MS selling PC games in the now unified store + push publishers to do the same ( being that selling both console and PC games in a unified store is something Steam or Sony cannot offer. ). To publishers, the more ways you have to recoup costs, the more money making opportunities there are for you. You will only have a single cert process for both PC and console.
2. MS is going to give title updates the Xbone titles that now have PC releases. The updated titles will scale up to the new scorpio hardware. So, those older and previously announced titles that won't necessarily drive sales of xbox one base model, can then help push sales of Scorpio. It makes sense if MS is doing the same work with these games on PC already.
So in my mind, either previously released or announced titles coming this year are getting PC releases and support to scale up to newer hardware. It's an effort to leverage money spent as a way to legitimize the MS store & provide consumer incentive to pick up the Scorpio over the base console. New titles announced or shown at E3 going forward possibly won't make their way to PC, and be used to drive sales of the Scorpio hardware while still supporting the base xbone.
I know many people here see MS making PC releases and think they must be stupid since exclusives are what drive console sales. I don't think MS has forgotten this, and they know that exclusives are the only way to differentiate yourself from the competitors, but this is simply leveraging money already spent to drive sales in a different manner during a transition period.
Mixolydian
Member
Ha. I like the closing statement on that.
I have no clue what you're alluding to here. Was there even a reference to scorpio in this video?
There's not going to be a price war.
Primethius
Banned
What's the narrative?
darkinstinct
...lacks reading comprehension.
Every console is sold at a loss at launch. Even if it is as little as "one first party game purchase". Now you could potentially just look at the attachment rate and say every console owner will buy at least two first party titles, four third party titles and own one year of Live, so let's sell it at a loss of $160 and we're still in the positive lifetime. But these are pretty much off the shelf parts. They don't cost a fortune, especially not in bulk. In a year the Scorpio specs can easily be sold for 350 to 400 without taking a loss. GPU prices include a considerable profit margin. If AMD can sell a packaged card for $200 that includes $10 for packaging and shipping it around the world, $10 for support (warranties, telephone support, replacements), $20 profit for AMD, $10 profit for the bulk trader, $10 profit for the store. $10 for assembly, then we are already down to pure part costs that can't be higher than $130 and that is still including R&D. And for an item that's gonna be sold maybe five million times. If you take the same basic component and sell them 50 million times in a console price is going to be much lower.
I think they will put in as much power as they can if they sell it for $450 and then sell it for $400.
Leaving aside the $20 and 6 month gaps you have invented, most of the worldwide console buying market don't share your rabid enthusiasm for MS hardware. In fact, the Xbox brand is dead or on life support in many parts of the world.
DudeWithNoName
Member
I wonder if the Scorpio will have two SKUs. A standalone, and one with OR included