Support NeoGAF

[Tommy DJ]

Online games arent cracked which is most aaa games and i should have said i ment best case as per ratio ( not total sales). Obviously fallout etc outsold doom.

I would be suprised if doom on pc outsold ps wouldnt you? Other than starcraft etc generally ps community is biggest followed by xbox and pc being similar. Either way steams 150 million users translates into LESS sales for aaa titles on pc.

Which doesn't mean the claim that PC game piracy is a huge detriment to sales is really all that true or relevant. That is no longer the case.

One, it assumes that people who pirate were going to buy the game in the first place.

Two, it assumes that a signficant number of the PC community are pirating. That isn't the case. PC games are more convenient and affordable than ever, especially with key sellers like Green Man Gaming.

Three, it assumes that people have cracked games with Denuvo DRM.

Four, being able to crack most games is getting harder and harder in general.

Piracy is a cost and convenience issue. Games are cheaper and easier to access, download and buy than ever. Cracks like that for Dragon Age Inquisition are later than ever and those for MGSV are more tedious than home brewing a PS Vita.

 

[truth411]

Doubtful. The Neo is basically identical to the PS4 architecturally with faster components so its easy to scale games to run on both. The Scorpio will likely have a completely different memory architecture than the One - there's no way you're using ESRAM + DDR4 to feed a 6TF APU and getting a 5.5-6TF APU on the same die as the required amount of ESRAM would pretty much lead to the largest, most expensive and worst thought out APU in history. To get to their targeted performance on a 14nm node in 2017/18 they're going to have to go the PS4 route with a unified memory pool on GDDR5x or HBM. This means a lot of extra work scaling down games designed to actually use all the extra power on the Scorpio for the Xbox One. Its not impossible but it will cost enough in terms of time and money it might as well be its own version. You'd see devs develop one version (scaled differently) for PS4, Neo and Scorpio and then have to port that to run on Xbox One and its split memory pools. That's not realistic.

Great post. I'm thinking that Scorpio is effectively a new generation console that's backwards compatible with Xbox one. I'm not expecting Xbox one games to be able to play Scorpio games. Similar how MS quickly moved on to the 360 after the original Xbox.

 

[Shpeshal Nick]

I don't think the Scorpio will have "one" anywhere in the name.

Pro as a moniker for a game console is just silly. there's nothing professional about it

I think they need to keep One to avoid confusion.

Xbox One Pro
Xbox One S

This tells the market that these are 2 new products based on the Xbox One, so there should be no confusion as to whether games will play. The S will be the clearly smaller box so S will obviously stand for Slim like it did with the 360.

Pro indicates the "better" version. Not the "Professional" version. The above naming scheme makes sense.

 

[Chobel]

No, I'm talking about total retail sales against total digital sales. The first is still higher for them.

No, we're talking about XB1 retail sales vs PC digital sales. You still haven't provided proof it's significantly higher than PC sales.

What I'm arguing is that by supporting a digital platform that encompasses many platforms that might:

- Get multiple console owners to buy on that platform
- Get more people to buy digital vs retail.

And lose revenue from PC sales, you just can't ignore that.

Do you have a source for saying that the majority of console gamers only play on consoles?

No, but it's pretty good educated guess. Either it's convenience, lower price or whatever, but console gamer don't find PC gaming appealing to them.

Also, another device don't need to be a phone, a tablet, a laptop (though the case makes itself for having your library on the go) or a pc, it might be a very low end console that's cheap enough for you to buy for other rooms in your house or perhaps even a stick that stream games from another console/pc or even the cloud.

And even that there's now the certainty that another xbone situation is not going to happen. If Ms screws up and make another underpowered console again you can still enjoy your games with the maximul possible quality while still being connected to your friends.

Obviously it all depends on what Ms is going to do, but it's silly to deny the potential of the platform.

Now you're talking about some situations that doesn't exist in reality, (people having been totally locked to MS ecosystem devices), at least not in significant way. And until that happens (I doubt it will), EA and others have no incentive to support W10 store with crossbuy.

 

[CircleOfFire]

Neo and Scorpio most likely will market themselves as "4K' and "VR Ready" devices. That's the easiest (at least to start off) way to market those devices and get them to sell. Yes, those are niche markets but it's additive. "Buy this now and you'll be ready for the future".

I think that's a seriously hard sell for both Sony and Microsoft. They've gotta be careful about the Osborne Effect not kicking them hard in the balls in the run up to the actual release. In this case that would be most dangerous for Microsoft given their relative position as it could drastically nuke 3rd party support. There's not even a good template for doing something like this successfully in the console market, about the only thing on par is Kinect and that's not much like this at all.

 

[Chris1]

I think they need to keep One to avoid confusion.

Xbox One Pro
Xbox One S

This tells the market that these are 2 new products based on the Xbox One, so there should be no confusion as to whether games will play. The S will be the clearly smaller box so S will obviously stand for Slim like it did with the 360.

Pro indicates the "better" version. Not the "Professional" version. The above naming scheme makes sense.

Xbox One 4k

But honestly I could see them just dropping the "one" from the name and going all out "Xbox". The console says xbox anyways, the only thing that does say "one" is the cases but they can fix that.

They need a major rebranding anyways, if Scorpio isn't true next gen, pretty sure the One is getting dropped. It has to. And if it's just "xbox" people will know it's xbox one I think, the 360 is already distinguished as the "360" but when you say xbox, you don't think of the original xbox, you just think of the brand so I think they could go back to that name without too much confusion.

 

[Zedox]

This is pretty interesting.

On the last Windows Weekly they said that Microsoft said that 3rd parties will be taking advantage of their Windows holographic platform within months....

Would it be much of a stretch that Xbox Scorpio could be running Windows Holographic onto Oculus VR?

I think I stated this a couple pages back but not only Scorpio...the Xbox One would be able to run Windows Holographic as well. It's just a bunch of APIs and a shell for VR/AR headsets. OEMs make their devices, Xbox, which is a Windows 10 device, can run it. I think they'll announce VR working on the Xbox platform through Windows holographic (if not at E3, then at the spring event). If a phone can run VR (albeit not awesome graphics) then so can the Xbox One. They won't be as great as Oculus or Vive or PSVR but you can still have smaller devs build a good enough VR experience for the Xbox One using Windows holographic. But I think Scorpio will be the major push for VR stuff.

Things aren't in a vacuum as much as they once were.

The uwp on xbone will still be incomplete in the Redstone 1 update (but said to be fully supported on the Redstone 2, which is why probably Scorpio won't come until spring 2017), it doesn't support the file picker yet for instance, but as an example, the guys that made Torrex (torrent client) said they are bringing it to xbone. If that kind of app is allowed then I guess pretty much everything that's currently on the store will too, which makes this VERY interesting.

UWP wasn't said to be "finished" with Redstone 2...it will forever be growing in capabilities and fixes and ish. Yea, third party apps like that will be interesting to see if it can make it on the Xbox One. The Windows Store on the Xbox One is the most interesting thing from Microsoft in my opinion.

To me, I think MS is positioning the Xbox to be the catalyst for apps on the Windows Store. Think about it, we're going to basically have Xbox Live Indie Games again but with more power (and they are opening that power up over time). But those games won't be so confined as they once were and they will also have a PC release as well. But not only games, just regular ole apps. The opening of the Xbox One to a true store comparative to what XBLIG was is gonna be interesting to see the traction it gets.

 

[Chobel]

Also LukasTaves, Digital is increasing in a significant way this gen without any crossbuy stuff. So why would 3rd party risk losing PC revenue on W10 store? It's already happening.

 

[CircleOfFire]

I think they need to keep One to avoid confusion.

Xbox One Pro
Xbox One S

This tells the market that these are 2 new products based on the Xbox One, so there should be no confusion as to whether games will play. The S will be the clearly smaller box so S will obviously stand for Slim like it did with the 360.

Pro indicates the "better" version. Not the "Professional" version. The above naming scheme makes sense.

For the people on this forum that totally makes sense, for "serious" gamers it's also fine, for the majority that don't fit into those camps it's a hot mess. Why get the "Pro" when the "S" is cheaper? Retail will have to split that valuable shelf space down to fit the two models in it. Anyone buying a console as a gift will inevitably get the "S" model as it's cheaper, even if that's the wrong thing. Anything that causes confusion retailers will hate with an absolute passion as it potentially means people trying to return consoles at Christmas.

 

[Glorified G]

That's honestly the most interesting thing about the (rumored) transition coming up and frankly a double edged sword for Xbox. PS4 to Neo is a nice upgrade (assuming the Neo is somewhere around 4.5 TF) but not really a generational leap. Its easy to say that most Neo games will be able to run in some form (def not VR) on launch PS4s. This will help Sony hold on to its PS4 user base and grow it substantially in the 1+ years they will have on the market without an Xbox alternative. It will also help PSVR become the de facto standard for console VR gaming and ensure that the experience is completely acceptable for the first iteration of a new technology. With Xbox, the jump is nearly a full generational leap at current specs, greater actually than 360 to Xbox One. There is little to no chance that the Xbox One is forwards compatible with Scorpio titles. Microsoft's target market is push Xbox One upgrades (perhaps through a creative trade in scheme) and hardcore gamers who would look at a PC instead. Its a risky bet and I know I'd rather be Sony right now.

I don't know where you are getting most of this. All of this is conjuncture on your part and contradicts what has been reported from Giantbomb & Eurogamer. First, PSVR hasn't been mentioned in any of the Neo documentation leaked. Second, all PS4 titles in the future will need to support both the base PS4 & the Neo version. The de facto standard for PSVR is the PS4. No PSVR game can be certified unless it is near locked to 60fps & there won't be any exclusive Neo PS4 games in the future.

 

[Steelyuhas]

I think they need to keep One to avoid confusion.

Xbox One Pro
Xbox One S

This tells the market that these are 2 new products based on the Xbox One, so there should be no confusion as to whether games will play. The S will be the clearly smaller box so S will obviously stand for Slim like it did with the 360.

Pro indicates the "better" version. Not the "Professional" version. The above naming scheme makes sense.

They will almost certainly shed the "One" branding from the Xbox.

 

[FordGTGuy]

Also LukasTaves, Digital is increasing in a significant way this gen without any crossbuy stuff. So why would 3rd party risk losing PC revenue on W10 store? It's already happening.

Why do you guys keep implying that 3rd party have to be on the Windows 10 store?

The great thing about PC is that it gives you access to multiple store platforms and doesn't limit you to one. Microsoft can sell their games on their own store just like EA does and compliment Steam instead of trying to replace it.

Not to mention a 3rd party can be on both Steam and the Windows 10 store at the same time. Either way they are subject to giving the store a cut but by being on both stores they are only increasing their total market.

 

[Chobel]

Why do you guys keep implying that 3rd party have to be on the Windows 10 store?

The great thing about PC is that it gives you access to multiple store platforms and doesn't limit you to one. Microsoft can sell their games on their own store just like EA does and compliment Steam instead of trying to replace it.

No, we're talking about 3rd publishers like EA or Blizzard which have their own PC store. LukasTaves believes it's better for them to support W10 store and offer their games as a crossbuy. I don't think it makes any financial sense for them to do that.

TL;DR: It's about crossbuy (PC/XB1/Scorpio...).

 

[icespide]

Why do you guys keep implying that 3rd party have to be on the Windows 10 store?

The great thing about PC is that it gives you access to multiple store platforms and doesn't limit you to one. Microsoft can sell their games on their own store just like EA does and compliment Steam instead of trying to replace it.

Not to mention a 3rd party can be on both Steam and the Windows 10 store at the same time. Either way they are subject to giving the store a cut but by being on both stores they are only increasing their total market.

LukasTaves made the case that the Windows Store and cross buy is basically a no brainer for 3rd parties. we're discussing that

 

[FordGTGuy]

No, we're talking about 3rd publishers like EA or Blizzard which have their own PC store. LukasTaves believes it's better for them to support W10 store and offer their games as a crossbuy. I don't think it makes any financial sense for them to do that.

I honestly don't think it matters. The only minimum I see going into the future is cross-saves.

Crossbuy is definitely going to be up to the publisher and Blizzard is never going to do that. EA is a bit up in the air, they have had a great relationship with Microsoft lately so it would be cool if they supported the Windows 10 store along with Origin in order to allow for cross-buy... but I don't think it's going to happen.

Is it beneficial to support the Windows 10 store from the perspective of EA or Blizzard? It could be if they can use it as a doorway to get get people to use Origin and Blizzard's software.

 

[crab rangoon]

1. It still depends on the code, not everything will come out cleanly from the converter tool.

Source? The code is unchanged according to every presentation they have given about the converter iirc. It literally seems to be a one step process taking a few minutes. Do you have instances where the code had to be changed in order to get it to run on hardware comparable to what it was designed for? MS didn't seem to need any code adjustments to get AoE 2 or Witcher 3 to run just fine.

2. The publisher has a choice on which platforms that they can sell their UWA.

What makes you so sure of this? What if MS decides to change their definition of what constitutes their platform (which seems precisely what they are doing here)?

You need to look at the developer portal (as I have). You can choose PC, Xbox, Surface, Mobile, HoloLens, etc...with the one UWA. You can build differently as well with multiple instances of a UWA for the different platforms if you choose and submit that to the store if you wanted. Each one of those platforms you can choose how much you want to charge, you can choose if it is cross-buy or not.

Ok, but that last sentence there presumes there are different marketplaces. That is true now, but won't be true very soon.

The publisher has many options to their disposal. I'm not coming as a person who is thinking of "if", I'm coming from a person who has looked at this stuff as a developer.

Neat.

 

[wachie]

I was initially pushing the "Pro" branding but now I'm split between Pro and Elite.

Xbox Elite - $399 (Scorpio)
Xbox Elite + Elite controller - $479
Xbox Slim - $249 (Xbox One shrink)
Xbox Stick - $79
Xbox One - EOL

 

[FordGTGuy]

I was initially pushing the "Pro" branding but now I'm split between Pro and Elite.

Xbox Elite - $399 (Scorpio)
Xbox Elite + Elite controller - $479
Xbox Slim - $249 (Xbox One shrink)
Xbox Stick - $79
Xbox One - EOL

You're missing the set top box device.

Xbox Stick: $75 - $100
Xbox Set Top Box: $150 - $175
Xbox One: $249
Xbox Slim: $299
Xbox Scorpio: $399

 

[icespide]

what set top box?

 

[Erimriv]

Just need to be able to play Witcher 3 and the two expansions on Scorpio. Price it at 399 and I''ll be there day one.

 

[Art Vandilay]

You're missing the set top box device.

Xbox Stick: $75 - $100
Xbox Set Top Box: $150 - $175
Xbox One: $249
Xbox Slim: $299
Xbox Scorpio: $399

The set top could be the slim.

 

[FordGTGuy]

what set top box?

Brad Sams says there will be an Xbox Stick, Xbox set top device, Xbox Slim and a Scorpio.

The set top could be the slim.

It's not, Brad seemed adamant that it was a much smaller device and he considered the Slim separate.

 

[CyberMiguel]

Which doesn't mean the claim that PC game piracy is a huge detriment to sales is really all that true or relevant. That is no longer the case.

One, it assumes that people who pirate were going to buy the game in the first place.

Two, it assumes that a signficant number of the PC community are pirating. That isn't the case. PC games are more convenient and affordable than ever, especially with key sellers like Green Man Gaming.

Three, it assumes that people have cracked games with Denuvo DRM.

Four, being able to crack most games is getting harder and harder in general.

Piracy is a cost and convenience issue. Games are cheaper and easier to access, download and buy than ever. Cracks like that for Dragon Age Inquisition are later than ever and those for MGSV are more tedious than home brewing a PS Vita.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but there have been bypases and cracks for some Denuvo protected games (a few though) and Piracy is not a conviniency issue, but rather an economic issue. Most of the people who pirate games don't have enough money to buy the legit version or doesn't have the means to buy them at the original price (because they don't have credit cards) and retail stores overcharge for a game (like some stores in my country).

But anyway, that's another issue for another discussion thread.

 

[wachie]

You're missing the set top box device.

If it's just an Xbox One shrink (Slim) minus the optical drive then I could see it at $199. I don't agree with your price points though.

 

[HarryKS]

Some of you guys living in the clouds with those pricing schemes. They are not realistic.

 

[Shpeshal Nick]

For the people on this forum that totally makes sense, for "serious" gamers it's also fine, for the majority that don't fit into those camps it's a hot mess. Why get the "Pro" when the "S" is cheaper? Retail will have to split that valuable shelf space down to fit the two models in it. Anyone buying a console as a gift will inevitably get the "S" model as it's cheaper, even if that's the wrong thing. Anything that causes confusion retailers will hate with an absolute passion as it potentially means people trying to return consoles at Christmas.

Why is it confusing?

Do people get confused with phones, tablets and PCs? Nope.

That's why you keep the One in the name. To avoid confusion. People will see 2 types of Xbox on the shelf. One Pro, One S. By keeping the One in the name, customers know both play Xbox One games. There's nothing "wrong" with customers taking the Slim.

 

[FordGTGuy]

If it's just an Xbox One shrink (Slim) minus the optical drive then I could see it at $199. I don't agree with your price points though.

Those are the price points shared by Brad Sams on the stick and set top device.

You can go back and watch the Youtube video and he specifically says a stick at $75-$100 and a set top device between $150-$175.

Some of you guys living in the clouds with those pricing schemes. They are not realistic.

In what way?

$300 for the Slim by holiday seems realistic to me.

Why is it confusing?

Do people get confused with phones, tablets and PCs? Nope.

That's why you keep the One in the name. To avoid confusion. People will see 2 types of Xbox on the shelf. One Pro, One S. By keeping the One in the name, customers know both play Xbox One games. There's nothing "wrong" with customers taking the Slim.

I would get rid of the One name in order to let this device have a fresh start separate from Xbox One.

With the Slim model incoming they are going to want to sell out of the original as quickly as possible and replace it with the slim.

 

[HarryKS]

Those are the price points shared by Brad Sams on the stick and set top device.

You can go back and watch the Youtube video and he specifically says a stick at $75-$100 and a set top device between $150-$175.



In what way?

$300 for the Slim by holiday seems realistic to me.

You don't conceive a premium product and sell it for 399. That's not how those companies work, it's never been the case. The best way to predict anything in this industry is to look at previous product launches.

They will launch at a premium price if the benefits touted are real. The rest is just wishful thinking.

 

[FordGTGuy]

You don't conceive a premium product and sell it for 399. That's not how those companies work, it's never been the case. The best way to predict anything in this industry is to look at previous product launches.

They will launch at a premium price if the benefits touted are real. The rest is just wishful thinking.

There is no possible way they will go for anything over $399. It's basically like killing the console before it even has a chance to live.

Both the PS4 and Xbox One launch show that anything $500-$600 is not going to be successful.

I get the feeling that you guys keep forgetting that by the time this thing launches it will pretty much be four years after the Xbox One launch and unlike the Xbox One it doesn't have an expensive Kinect bundled with it.

 

[icespide]

You don't conceive a premium product and sell it for 399. That's not how those companies work, it's never been the case. The best way to predict anything in this industry is to look at previous product launches.

They will launch at a premium price if the benefits touted are real. The rest is just wishful thinking.

those are a lot of words that don't actually explain anything. why can't it be $399?

 

[wachie]

Those are the price points shared by Brad Sams on the stick and set top device.

You can go back and watch the Youtube video and he specifically says a stick at $75-$100 and a set top device between $150-$175.

Both price points I suggested are within the range with the caveat being that if the set top box being an Xbox Slim minus the optical drive then I expect it at the higher end of the range at $199.

 

[Chris1]

You don't conceive a premium product and sell it for 399. That's not how those companies work, it's never been the case. The best way to predict anything in this industry is to look at previous product launches.

They will launch at a premium price if the benefits touted are real. The rest is just wishful thinking.

Xbox One will be $250 or less by time this comes out

$399 would be a "Premium price" in comparison

There is no way that they are going over $399.

 

[crab rangoon]

This is where things (my personal opinion) get interesting with UWP. UWP isn't only games, we're going to have other types of apps in the Windows Store that could be for anything (up to devs). Those devs most likely will be charging for stuff and give cool apps. Taking the money out of the picture, PlayStation won't have that type of reach (i'm not getting into console wars mind you, just discussing) as they don't have that type of platform for "anybody" to make an app for the PlayStation. They will have "gaming lockin" but they won't have "gaming + app lockin". Obviously that is all dependent on devs making compelling apps for the television but I believe PlayStation and Xbox have the most potential to change the way we use TVs moreso than other companies (yes, even Apple TV, and Rokus). I just see MS having that "real" opportunity first with UWP on Xbox One.

#E32016IsGonnaBeInteresting

It could get especially interesting to see where MS's whole 'Bot net' push ends up. The sort of bots working together as shown at Build was pretty interesting. Lots of room for creativity.

 

[Shpeshal Nick]

You don't conceive a premium product and sell it for 399. That's not how those companies work, it's never been the case. The best way to predict anything in this industry is to look at previous product launches.

They will launch at a premium price if the benefits touted are real. The rest is just wishful thinking.

I actually understand your line of thinking here, but that's being a tad simplistic about it. I'd be shocked if Scorpio was above $399. If it is, then all at Xbox are completely and utterly out of touch.

Microsoft would be acutely aware of the fact that they will need to take a hit on Scorpio. I suspect they'll soften the blow with the Slim and the stick?

 

[wachie]

If Scorpio is Zen + Vega 10 + HBM then I see it at $499.

If its Zen + Vega 10 or Zen + Polaris 10, I don't see it above $399.

 

[Erimriv]

Does anyone know which was the cost of the bundled kinect at launch? 100 bucks?

399 for scorpio ain't bad at launch.

 

[FordGTGuy]

Does anyone know which was the cost of the bundled kinect at launch? 100 bucks?

399 for scorpio ain't bad at launch.

$150 as reported by Microsoft.

If Scorpio is Zen + Vega 10 + HBM then I see it at $499.

If its Zen + Vega 10 or Zen + Polaris 10, I don't see it above $399.

Dude $499 just isn't happening.

 

[icespide]

$150 as reported by Microsoft.



Dude $499 just isn't happening.

$150 is how much they sold it separately but that's not how much it cost for Microsoft to include it in the $499 launch Xbox one

 

[wachie]

Dude $499 just isn't happening.

I then don't see HBM happening.

 

[Erimriv]

$150 is how much they sold it separately but that's not how much it cost for Microsoft to include it in the $499 launch Xbox one

Thanks for all the replies, but this is what im asking, having kinect out of the box how much can MS low the price of the Xbox One or Scorpio and not lose money on hardware.

 

[FordGTGuy]

I then don't see HBM happening.

Haven't seen anyone beyond speculation saying it was.

$150 is how much they sold it separately but that's not how much it cost for Microsoft to include it in the $499 launch Xbox one

http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/1...-make-than-the-ps4-thanks-to-esram-and-kinect

Breakdown puts the parts at $75 which of course doesn't include manufacturing and R&D costs.

 

[Zedox]

Source? The code is unchanged according to every presentation they have given about the converter iirc. It literally seems to be a one step process taking a few minutes. Do you have instances where the code had to be changed in order to get it to run on hardware comparable to what it was designed for? MS didn't seem to need any code adjustments to get AoE 2 or Witcher 3 to run just fine.

Yea, for the most part everything is unchanged. I understand what you are talking about.

 

[LukasTaves]

And lose revenue from PC sales, you just can't ignore that.

I'm not, I'm specifically saying that they will gain more than they will lose from that move. (Why? Because their retail sales are still higher than digital)

No, but it's pretty good educated guess. Either it's convenience, lower price or whatever, but console gamer don't find PC gaming appealing to them.

Again, it's not just PC. Everyone has a smartphone or a tablet these days, and Ms is also targeting that with their universal platform (even if it takes a while before mobile devices become a viable option for these type of games).

Now you're talking about some situations that doesn't exist in reality, (people having been totally locked to MS ecosystem devices), at least not in significant way. And until that happens (I doubt it will), EA and others have no incentive to support W10 store with crossbuy.

Uh? Of course nothing exists yet, I'm speculating on the potential of the platform that Ms is building up, and basing on the rumors of what they are doing.

It goes without saying that they still have to deliver on all that and still won't be a sure thing that consumers will adopt, but this is a thread about speculation, and this is all that I'm doing XD

No, we're talking about XB1 retail sales vs PC digital sales. You still haven't provided proof it's significantly higher than PC sales.

The proof is their earning calls. And again, I was talking about all retail sales vs digital sales on their storefront.

My point was: If Ms offers both consumers and publishers incentives to their digital store they will support it.

For consumers, cross buy is potentially a great incentive, and for publishers costumers buying from Ms store might not be as good as buying from their own, but ms has the potential to drive in big consumers numbers and offer incentives to make up for that.

That all there was to my argument, I'm not talking about the current scenario, or what's currently announced, I'm talking about Ms could do (and I think they will) to convince users and publishers alike to support their store.

 

[Yoday]

You don't conceive a premium product and sell it for 399. That's not how those companies work, it's never been the case. The best way to predict anything in this industry is to look at previous product launches.

They will launch at a premium price if the benefits touted are real. The rest is just wishful thinking.

This isn't just a premium product though, it will also serve as a relaunch of their brand. They want to get past the negativity of the Xbox One and the baggage that brings. They want to revitalize the brand, convert PS4 owners to Xbox owners, have a more compelling choice against the PS4, and at the same time launch an entirely new hardware ecosystem concept. You don't do all of that by making the same pricing mistake that got you into the mess to begin with.

Additionally there is no reason that the box would need to cost $500. I wouldn't be surprised if it is cheaper to produce at launch than the XBO minus Kinect was to produce at launch. If the Neo with its rumored specs is $400 at launch it will be because Sony wants to make a good profit on it instead of losing a little bit on each console like they did at PS4 launch. The Neo will be quite a bit cheaper to produce than the PS4 was at launch due to the smaller APU and now cheaper GDDR5.

 

[icespide]

This isn't just a premium product though, it will also serve as a relaunch of their brand. They want to get past the negativity of the Xbox One and the baggage that brings. They want to revitalize the brand, convert PS4 owners to Xbox owners, have a more compelling choice against the PS4, and at the same time launch an entirely new hardware ecosystem concept. You don't do all of that by making the same pricing mistake that got you into the mess to begin with.

Additionally there is no reason that the box would need to cost $500. I wouldn't be surprised if it is cheaper to produce at launch than the XBO minus Kinect was to produce at launch. If the Neo with its rumored specs is $400 at launch it will be because Sony wants to make a good profit on it instead of losing a little bit on each console like they did at PS4 launch. The Neo will be quite a bit cheaper to produce than the PS4 was at launch due to the smaller APU and now cheaper GDDR5.

re bolded: we don't actually know that for sure yet. hell who knows they may want to double down on the xbox one and try and make it more successful. we don't know if they are actually trying to relaunch their brand until they announce the thing

 

[wachie]

Haven't seen anyone beyond speculation saying it was.

This thread is all speculation, even the OP where they assume that Scorpio has to land at the higher end of the range at 6TF.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=205715264&postcount=8028
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=205472963&postcount=6726
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=204991044&postcount=4734
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=204987429&postcount=4709

I could get more posts but a lot of people are expecting HBM. Some even expecting 12GB or more of HBM so yes I'm cautious and reeling my expectations when I know I should.

 

[FordGTGuy]

This thread is all speculation, even the OP where they assume that Scorpio has to land at the higher end of the range at 6TF.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=205715264&postcount=8028
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=205472963&postcount=6726
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=204991044&postcount=4734
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=204987429&postcount=4709

I could get more posts but a lot of people are expecting HBM. Some even expecting 12GB or more of HBM so yes I'm cautious and reeling my expectations when I know I should.

Well no, you're confusing speculation with rumors.

We have two sources that say around 6TF, none of these sources say that HBM is happening.

 

[justsomeguy]

Why is it confusing?

Do people get confused with phones, tablets and PCs? Nope.

That's why you keep the One in the name. To avoid confusion. People will see 2 types of Xbox on the shelf. One Pro, One S. By keeping the One in the name, customers know both play Xbox One games. There's nothing "wrong" with customers taking the Slim.

Can't keep the "one" name for ever and Xbox is the brand name.

I reckon the message will be "all your xbox games will work on any device : pc, xbox one, xbox one s and xbox 4k"

Clearly makes the point that xbox one and xbox one s are "the same" just different form factors.

Clearly shows theres a high power xbox

Clearly shows that *xbox* is the brand and all xbox games work everywhere.

Only missing piece is og xbox emulator and og/360 games on pc. E3 bomba?

 

[LukasTaves]

I think I stated this a couple pages back but not only Scorpio...the Xbox One would be able to run Windows Holographic as well. It's just a bunch of APIs and a shell for VR/AR headsets. OEMs make their devices, Xbox, which is a Windows 10 device, can run it. I think they'll announce VR working on the Xbox platform through Windows holographic (if not at E3, then at the spring event). If a phone can run VR (albeit not awesome graphics) then so can the Xbox One. They won't be as great as Oculus or Vive or PSVR but you can still have smaller devs build a good enough VR experience for the Xbox One using Windows holographic. But I think Scorpio will be the major push for VR stuff.

Things aren't in a vacuum as much as they once were.



UWP wasn't said to be "finished" with Redstone 2...it will forever be growing in capabilities and fixes and ish. Yea, third party apps like that will be interesting to see if it can make it on the Xbox One. The Windows Store on the Xbox One is the most interesting thing from Microsoft in my opinion.

To me, I think MS is positioning the Xbox to be the catalyst for apps on the Windows Store. Think about it, we're going to basically have Xbox Live Indie Games again but with more power (and they are opening that power up over time). But those games won't be so confined as they once were and they will also have a PC release as well. But not only games, just regular ole apps. The opening of the Xbox One to a true store comparative to what XBLIG was is gonna be interesting to see the traction it gets.

I should have phrased better, I meant xbone Api coverage is still very low, and by Redstone 2 they will have complete coverage (for the apis that make sense in a console at least).

And I agree. Ms knows that Xbox is the most popular consumer device they have to drive the uwp going forward. And unlike other markets they are in a position where they can force developers to support uwp.

Also LukasTaves, Digital is increasing in a significant way this gen without any crossbuy stuff. So why would 3rd party risk losing PC revenue on W10 store? It's already happening.

That's actually a very good point. Which is why I said, if I were phil I would be offering revenue cuts for pubs to support cross buy, that way the increase in revenue from console sales (where they still have to support no matter what) will make up for the lost Pc sales on their own platform.

 

[Yoday]

re bolded: we don't actually know that for sure yet. hell who knows they may want to double down on the xbox one and try and make it more successful. we don't know if they are actually trying to relaunch their brand until they announce the thing

It doesn't matter what it's called, it along with their ecosystem shift, are still going to be used to relaunch the Xbox brand in a pretty major way. Even if it was still called simply Xbox One they would still use it as a springboard to shift the narrative of their brand.