It's giving Xbox fans hope.
Polygon: Xbox Scorpio will be a ~6 TFLOP system (v PS4K's 4.14), unveil soon, Fall 17
- Thread starter BUNTING1243
- Start date
It's giving Xbox fans hope.
Tatsumi Oga
Banned
I've been very busy with moving to a new house, so barely had the time to check Internet. Has there been anything new at all?
SenjutsuSage
Banned
I love my xbox one to the core, and I would jump on a scorpio immediately. All xbox one titles are supported, and I would want the next big xbox console.
MilkyJoe
Member
What's Neo's sales pitch?
Scorpio will bring vr to the xbox table
Vr is already on ps4 vanilla. So how are Sony marketing Neo?
chromatic9
Member
I don't think so.
In related rumours, there's some creative chatter that the Xbox Slim is going to be around 2tflops. Apparently the manufacturing is actually cheaper if MS go this route.
Huh, where?
...Scatter...
Banned
As a multiplat guy but XBOX main we had our uproar at the XBOX One launch. We're over it now and have long moved into acceptance. Personally, I'm ready for Scorpio and am looking forward to seeing Spencer's vision. Robbie Bach and J.Allard 2.0 is what we're hoping for.
biglittleps
Member
4k support(not games), 1080p remoteplay, improved fps/graphics over PS4 etc., like a premium PS4 for hardcore gamers. PS4 Neo is not a mainstream machine and its just a filler for making some hardcore users happy with enhanced visuals and features for both VR and non-VR use which is why sony still keeping PS4 and selling neo along with it.
Bitch Pudding
Member
Hm, I suppose it will be all about the (forced) Neo mode in upcoming games and UHD Blu-ray playback. For me, that's not convincing enough to jump onto the PS4 Neo bandwaggon (yet). And I suppose that the majority (!) of XBOX One owners will not be tempted to upgrade as well (anytime soon, that is). My guess is that it will be though to promote those new consoles without any new (exclusive) games.
Yes, VR is a new pitch vor Scorpio, but for all we know it's a quite expensive one, given the costs of a OR set. And most of those who already jumped on the PSVR train will most likely be lost to MS' potential VR customer base. In other words, I don't think that VR on Scorpio is a convincing proposition right now, not at the current (!) price levels.
MilkyJoe
Member
Leyasu
Banned
What like there was after Microsoft ditched the OG Xbox for the 360??
All of the people on friends list that I have spoken to are saying day one... That don't mean shit of course in the grand scheme of things.
I can see them announcing it as a new gen, that's backwards compatible and that they will support the bone. Problem solved .
Why don't you buy it?
MilkyJoe
Member
Forget Scorpio, there is no question here about what Scorpio brings to the table, we are talking what is the "Neo idea". How are you going to sell that "idea"? If VR works on vanilla PS4 how are you going to sell Neo? And I'd say you can cancel the UHD Blu ray player as a draw for the foreseeable future.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
I agree, it was nowhere near the coolness of the final product especially once the weather patch hit
.Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Not a huge deal with that perhaps, but the fact that Sony so well supports their home consoles throughout their entire extended lifespans is one of the various factors that make me get their consoles at launch every time without much thought.
Leyasu
Banned
What is important for you may not be for someone else..
SneakersSO
Member
The exact same thing could be said for Scorpio - "More graphics? Thats it?".
The current base of X1 & PS4 is both too large (collectively), and too relevant for the software sales expectations for big publishers to take advantage of either iterative machine in any relevant or meaningful way. PS4/X1 will have their games launch & required to be gameplay compatible with the newer consoles. For people saying "MS is going to treat this as a new generation", understand, a choice like that would make the least sense possible, business wise. Gameplay compatibility will be a huge limiting factor for potential distinctive titles for the new machines is way bigger than anyone gives credit to. Take a game like Destiny 2 - having Neo/Scorpio on the market will be irrelevant when gameplay has to be compatible between the machines, meaning PS4 players & Neo players are playing in the same network environment, and X1 & Scorpio users are playing on the same network environment for their platform. Having a spectrum of consoles now ensures that the law of the Greatest Common Denominator is going to be held even more so. Sure, the Neo/Scorpio users will get some more particle VFX, some better textures, but everything that is relevant for gameplay will have to remain the same between versions.
There is a huge cloud of doubt whether or not a new generation would even generate the level of sales success even these current machines were able to muster, which hasn't been the best generation in terms of sales trajectories at all. I've said this before - even with the genre migration & audience distillation we've seen among the core console user, we just don't know what either machine is going to be able to pull in terms of marketshare. These machines are going to be brand new to the scene, and the vast majority of their software library will be shared with consoles that have been on the market for years & have a far larger install base, and potentially will retain the full market attention that they are launching into; there is no guarantee the market is going to shift in a major way to Neo/Scorpio sales over their cheaper predecessors.
Neo is launching & using 4K as its major marketing angle, a market that might not even be there to greet it. Scorpio is gonna use technical superiority & native Oculus support for its marketing angle. Scorpio is also going to launch and be the first console that is part of a platform where it doesn't have an inherent exclusive library to help push sales of the machine (all MS published titles now launching on PC as well as Xbox). MS attempting to hit the reset button like they did in 2005 this early on just won't be the same - there are far too many variables that do not match up with what happened back then, not to mention the state of where developers find themselves won't be as accommodating as it was back then either.
totallydied
Neo Member
Mate, this bolded is frankly not true, the fact that this thread is filled to the brim with fantasy release dates, accusations of downplaying, and how this system will beat the opposing system or at the very least change everything in Microsoft's favor. Is quite frankly indicative of a fanbase that hasn't gotten over anything, much less the Xbox one reveal which is constantly brought up by the fanbase to justify their statements of why the system will turn out the way they believe.
And also, as a person who has owned all three generations of Xbox (i.e. the OG Xbox, the Xbox 360, and the Xbox one) the news surrounding the release of the Scorpio has entirely put me off, and as such the Xbox one I currently own will be my last Xbox I ever own.
Bitch Pudding
Member
I already answered your question. Right now, there's nothing more to it. And as I (also already) said, that's not a very convincing proposition from my point of view. At least not for those who already own a PS4, that is, as the PS4 itself and its eco-system is still a very convincing proposition.
Tatsumi Oga
Banned
Da fuck, that would mean weaker than current Xbox One for Slim?
Bitch Pudding
Member
Nope? More like vanilla PS4 level.
MilkyJoe
Member
Well the scorpio bring VR to xbox
The PS4 already has VR
How do you know Neo is using 4K as it't main draw? It won't be outputting AAA in 4K, so do you mean 4K bluray?
And with regards to the common denominator. Do we not have, say, Battlefront running on Xbone and PC? What is the difference between a PC version and an XBox version and a Neo or a Scorpio version?
SneakersSO
Member
This makes no sense - I mean, sure, I could see MS pulling this move simply because the original leak made it sound like they desperately want to regain the power narrative from a PR/marketing standpoint. However, if they sit there and claim hardware superiority while the Slim is on the market, and get people to upgrade to it, then they are going to launch the Scorpio within 18 months with the same marketing message? Doesn't seem like a very smart idea.
Bitch Pudding
Member
chromatic9
Member
No. Xbox One is 1.3tflops. PS4 is 1.8tflops. An Xbox Slim being 2tflops brings it to PS4 level. Just a rumour though. Take it with a huge grain of salt.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
I am not sure who would not love a console whose life is not cut short just to launch a new model and where the manufacturer does its best to make the current model succeed and assures good quality software is released well throughout the console lifetime and does not dry out one or two years before the successor console is out to market.
What consumer would dislike that? Unless you own shares and you are thinking about your investment fund first that is
.Same thing about moving to the same place where mobile phone manufacturers are slowly moving away from while chasing the Apple chimera... Lots of theoretical business value, very little user value beyond console warrior bragging points in this model.
MilkyJoe
Member
You realize you will see every game in 4k as your output right?
(couldn't resist
Oh you
SneakersSO
Member
4K blu-ray, yes. And the reason we already know thats the main draw is because the early leaks said they are going to call the Neo "PS4K" as its product name - you don't name your iterative console after the marketing angle & not have that be your main draw. Sony has had a ton of success in using their Playstation consoles to push a media format. Heck, the PS3 only began to turn the tide after the Blu-Ray vs. HDDVD format war was settled. The PS4k is, in many ways, an extension of that.
There is a big difference in the type of GCD comparison i'm making. More specifically, i'm talking about gameplay and technical performance. For example, if Star Wars Battlefront 2017's engine maturation required the game to run at 30 fps on PS4/X1, DICE would have to make one of 2 choices.
Choice A: In order to allow PS4/X1 users & Neo/Scorpio users to play with one another on their respective network environment, the game would have to run at 30fps even for Neo & Scorpio users, despite them having way more power. Not doing so would destroy the experience for the PS4/X1 users, which we can safely assume are going to be the larger install base for many, many years.
Choice B: Create a separate network environment for Neo/Scorpio users from the X1/PS4 users, but allow the performance bump of the newer machines to bring the gameplay to 60fps. However, this means you're going to have to create a more robust development/QA pipeline for those new versions, thus increasing budget. Also, those are going to be far smaller userbases, at least for a few years, if not for the foreseeable future.
Almost all triple-A publishers will go the Choice A route in this scenario. And this scenario only covers FPS - if there are NPC AI in those matches, the number that there are will be determined by the GCD of the weakest machine. You can extend this scenario to all of the technical limitations that gameplay features run into when dealing with system specs. For example, on the mobile side, some of the worst examples of the iterative console approach has been games that take advantage of the New 3DS specs versus how those same games run on a regular 3DS. Hyrule Warriors immediately comes to mind, as all the gameplay videos showcase the N3DS version, looking as smooth as the gameplay can look, while the 3DS versions is a choppy mess. That stuff would not fly for a game that has online interactions between players, something that the overwhelming vast majority of games increasingly are built around.
Tatsumi Oga
Banned
Ooooh my bad, haha. I forgot about how many tflops there were in the current console. So if that stuff is true they'll have a box that is on par with PS4 and then end of next year is Scorpio time? Interesting if true.
chromatic9
Member
Yeah, it's just a rumour. Would upset existing owners.
By the way, they wouldn't be claiming hardware superiority at around 2tflops, it would be the new cheap slim base model and bring it up to PS4 level, not something to upgrade to. If you want an upgrade then it's Scorpio.
Could just be a silly rumour so I'd say lets leave it here until anything gets announced at E3. Certainly on paper it would be good to pave a new two tier going forward for the next few years.
JumPeRJumPzZ
Banned
I just dont get why this comments are still popping up. A announcement wont kill anything.
People will get the games and console they want. I dont think that Neo and Scorpio will be that successful anyway.
Price is still a big point for a lot of consumers. This new upgraded consoles will be for the hardcore crowd that cares about tech etc and doesnt really care about the price.
And in Scorpios case, it wont kill anything when its a Year away. And we dont know at what point games have to have a Scorpio mode.
Neo games will ship starting October.
Backfoggen
Banned
Slim better not be faster or I'm going to be tempted to get one until Scorpio comes out
Leyasu
Banned
I am not sure who would not love a console whose life is not cut short just to launch a new model and where the manufacturer does its best to make the current model succeed and assures good quality software is released well throughout the console lifetime and does not dry out one or two years before the successor console is out to market.
What consumer would dislike that? Unless you own shares and you are thinking about your investment fund first that is
Same thing about moving to the same place where mobile phone manufacturers are slowly moving away from while chasing the Apple chimera... Lots of theoretical business value, very little user value beyond console warrior bragging points in this model.
Yes it is good seeing legacy models being supported. But like I said, if that was the most important criteria for everyone, then there would be no one except soy in the business.
It wouldn't just make me not buy a Neo, it would make me sell my current PS4 and Xbox One.
where's that creative chatter?
MilkyJoe
Member
I'm pretty sure the media came up with PS4K
And if you think 4K blu ray is a pulling point you are living in la la land.
...Scatter...
Banned
So the 4 year OG XBOX didn't bother you but the 4 year XBO is game over? So.... what are you going to play? On PlayStation where the same thing happens, PC where the same thing happens, or mobile where the same thing happens? I don't get it. No matter where you go, things will need to be upgraded.
This. But then MS will have 3 variants of Xbox's out in the field, I don't think that's a good move for them. Spring 2017 makes complete sense.
SneakersSO
Member
Funny, cause when I heard about Neo, it was specifically being talked about as a 4K video playback machine. I didn't even think it was going to have a hardware bump. As for the 4K Blu-Ray being a potential market driver - we literally have no idea. All we do know is 4K set-top adoption has been increasing in recent years, and is set to get even higher this year, and those users are currently content strapped. However, there are factors even in those market realities - factors such as the cost of 4K TV have dropped so low that the cost difference between them & 1080p display has become negligible, meaning the market might not be adopting 4K so much as they are just buying cheap TVs & now 4K displays have become so cheap theres no reason not to get them.
Either way, those displays are sorely lacking in content thanks to the limitations placed upon content streamers due to the data-size of 4K video files. If Sony wants to use its 4K playback as a way to entice a market to start picking it up, its a totally viable strategy. To iterate, I don't think its an overly attractive strategy; I still think these machines will struggle to break 5 million within their first 12 months on the market.
You make it sound like Xbox fans are a society for abused children or something.
It's not about hope; we're just excited for what's coming.
We know this isn't true from Phil Spencer himself.
http://www.techradar.com/us/news/gaming/there-won-t-be-an-xbox-1-5-says-phil-spencer-1318199
Phil doesn't seem interested in the cheap route.
-ImaginaryInsider
Member
The PS4 doesn't already have VR.
If the rumors are true, Neo is launching around the same time as the PSVR, Sony will likely use the Neo enhanced versions over the vanilla PS4 versions for marketing. The Neo will likely be entwined with the shaping of the early PSVR consumer experience to the point I could argue it also "brings VR to PS".
That's a viable marketing point.
nekkid
It doesn't matter who we are, what matters is our plan.
I remember Kotaku saying that the devs they overheard in the queue at GDC (not particularly subtly) specifically referred to it as "PS4K".
Outrun
Member
It is hard to derive the bolded from "huh?", which is the answer that you gave... Next time, try answering in full sentences
Again, it would benefit you from merely answering "LOL" to the idea that a potential more powerful system would prevent those in the market from purchasing a PS4 or NEO....
I honestly think that it may factor in a purchase decision. I was going to get a PS4 with the release of Uncharted. Neo rumors have me waiting....
Don't confuse an opinion for fan fiction. I stated mine. The idea that Sony did not know that DC was going to get delayed is your opinion....
It is not how megacorps work. It is about how divisions work. I suggest you look at that game trading video that Yoshida and Boyes delivered.... Reactionary stuff designed to capitalize on a weakness of a competitor...
Anyways, E3 shall gives us a clearer picture.
MilkyJoe
Member
So all those vanilla PS4 owners that have pre-ordered their PSVR will need to buy a Neo too? No of course they won't, because it is being sold as working with vanilla PS4.
I think he is saying that the PSVR isn't out yet.
Outrun
Member
I agree, it was nowhere near the coolness of the final product especially once the weather patch hit
That was a day one patch right?
On topic: It will be interesting how MS and Sony react to each other concerning hardware iterations....
Link to rumours?
IF the slim is more powerful, I could actually see the Scorpio revealed this year then release next year then.
Phil comes on stage and says the future of xbox will be new iterations every year and all games will work, shows the slim this year. Then says "To give you a more clearer insight to the future of xbox, we will be announcing the Xbox Scorpio due for release in 2017. And in 2018 there will be another xbox, and this is the future we are heading in with new iterations each year.
Nobody is going to wait until 2017 for the Scorpio because then they'd just wait for the 2018 version, then 2019, then it gets to a point where you'd just never buy it anyways, so they'd be lost customers but if Sony is doing the same thing they're gonna be forced into buying at least one of them if they're a console gamer.
Not sure where I'm going with this because yearly iterations is stupid, and Phil said there'd be no 1.5 steps, but I guess it'd make sense..?
jeff_rigby
Banned
Microsoft has to use DDR3/4 or HBM2 because they have ARM IP in the APU. They can have a XB1 slim using DDR4 and EDRAM on 14nm FinFET (Polaris blocks) which would give them something similar to the PS4 performance at reduced power and cost. Or they MUST skip to Vega using HBM2. VEGA's using HBM2 rather than GDDR5 allows the 40-50 watts saved in Memory power to be used by the GPU giving 2TF more performance than the PS4 NEO would have with Polaris and GDDR5 but at additional cost and a delay till HBM2 is ready.
If the rumored Scorpio is more expensive then it makes sense that a cheaper XB1 slim be part of the Xbox line.
nekkid
It doesn't matter who we are, what matters is our plan.
What the hell is going on?!