Politico: How Bernie Sanders Exposed the Democrats Racial Rift
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Even before that his talk about how economic fixes were a panacea for racial issues started him off on the wrong foot.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
I had them pegged as a conservative site. Wtf is going on?
AnathemicOne
Banned
Anecdote here, I'm asian and I liked/supported Bernie
Frozenprince
Banned
Then why didn't he win the Primary?
NinjaCoachZ
Member
I'm not American but the impression I got was that Bill Clinton was pretty well-liked among black voters. Hell I think Maya Angelou said he was "the first black president". That probably helps a lot? The Clintons apparently have a good track record of appealing/working with to the demographic.
I could see how this would cause you some stress. Instead of thinking this way every time you see a thread criticizing Bernie and ethnicity is involved, try to only think you're being called a racist when a GAFer actually calls you a racist directly. You'll probably feel much better since that probably happens a lot less.
Frozenprince
Banned
Y'all continue to not see the damn forest for the trees.
A podcast said it best "Wallstreet ain't never rolled up in a squad car and asked me 'Boy what you doing here?'"
I'm an older, black life-long Dem. I think there's not any simple reason that Bernie lost big among black voters, but rather a combination of different mistakes, along with Hillary's well-executed strategy to get those voters to go for her instead. And while I agree with some white Sanders supporters that black voters went against their own interests in this primary (we certainly aren't immune to that!), I think that the way the Sanders camp handled this was a grave mistake. No one wants to be talked down to. No one wants to be counted out. Whether white liberals like it or not, black voters are a powerful force in Democratic primary elections.
Aaronrules380
Member
GE polls at this point of the year are worthless, especially for someone as unknown and unvetted as Sanders who hasn't even had a single attack ad launched against him in the primaries. And there is a lot of dirt that, if revealed and used, would easily cause Sanders favorability to plummet in a GE
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
This is my least favorite most annoying meme this election.
1.) Sanders supporters are not willing to support Hillary in polls.
2.) Hillary supporters are willing to support Sanders in polls.
3.) Sanders has not be vetted to the same extent Hillary has.
These all affect the polls, which are not even that accurate this far out to begin with. After the conventions they start to get decently accurate until Election Day.
You quote me saying "Yes, he lost those voting demographics," and then ask why he didn't win the primary? I'm missing the point you're trying to make.
What I'm saying is just because Hillary won over Bernie in the primaries doesn't mean he ignored minorities and doesn't support them. Show me proof of that. His rhetoric and voting record shows quite the opposite.
Already Torn
Banned
If you really want to interpret it that way, I guess we are. But I think there's a notable difference between the two. One comes from a lack of perspective, the other from hate.
Ah, that's right. And it only snowballed from there.
The problem with Bernie is his simplistic manner of approaching every problem as one rooted in income inequality. That's is not the reality. That is one piece of a complex puzzle of obstacles that minorities face. But Bernie's a classic Law of the Instrument/Hammer guy. He's got a hammer, and every problem looks like a nail.
nocturnalis
Member
Gee, why wouldn't minorities want to vote for Mr. White Flight Personified?
That's a lot of presumptions to make about several million people. I for one just preferred his policies and wish he had done more to reach out to those voters. I do agree with your point however.
ThisGuy
Member
Lol, your issues with people who liked Sanders has lead you to miss the point of my post. Not surprising really, as usual. NoblessOblige referred to people voting in their best interest, my question was why wouldnt voting for Bernie be in a minorities best interest. Aside from gun laws, I couldnt really say and was curious about other answers. Hillary and Bernie don't seem that different.
But please parade about how I'm missing the point of Sanders failed campaign strategy. Dumb.
His Univision interview
NoblesseOblige
Banned
That's like saying you don't make a distinction between a Chevy and automobiles. Racism is selfish, true, but not all selfishness is racist. There are many other ways one may be selfish.
Did no one see a problem with ignoring Hillary's wins in the south as "conservative and irrelevant" wins when they are some of the most diverse areas in the USA racially? The only time these people's votes really matter and they get in a say while dealing with Republican majorities? Or when people were saying minorities were voting against their own interests (when they were actively voting to PROTECT their interests)? I'm not saying Bernie was racist or anything (I don't think he was) but I do think it looked really badly.
Grizzlyjin
Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
Yep, I wrote a long paragraph in response to someone but just deleted it because if someone doesn't see it after keeping up with this election cycle and reading this article, they probably are being willfully ignorant.
The most succinct way I could put it is when someone says #BernieOrBust, my response would have to be "Must be nice." Taking your ball and going home when you don't get your way isn't an option for some of us. We're trying to make sure our rights don't get taken away and that we can come up in the next couple years. There really isn't much time for bitterness when you got a lot of skin in the game.
POLITICO has been less conservative and more just inane horse-race politics over the years.
Seeing super in-depth critical pieces from them is about as surprising as Glenn Beck getting ohsoveryclose to actually figuring out horseshoe theory after the Facebook meeting.
His quote from the article you link:
So I'm reading his admitted defeat and a comment on the south's conservatism. This is somehow supposed to prove that Bernie ignores and does not support blacks, Hispanics, and the LGBT community?
GoldenEye 007
Member
Where did I say that? I said only of the Bernie supporters saying fuck everything, I'm voting for Trump. And maybe ones that also choose just to stay home as like I said, low turnouts benefit the GOP.
How did you conclude I said everyone who voted for Bernie is under the same umbrella? I'm not following.
Ya, I have really been just trying to avoid all Bernie threads in general, because even though I'm supporting Hillary now, I still see so many Gaffers just making sweeping generalizations about Bernie supporters and it pisses me off a little. The contest is done, why can't we go back to being friends?
Oh well, I'm out of here. No more PoliGAF threads for a few more months at least.
Frozenprince
Banned
Your question is meaningless. It ignores the root of the issue itself.
Why did Bernie Sanders ignore the black vote? Because Bernie Sanders knew his dog whistle BS wouldn't fly in the south. That's what matters.
I mean your own post illustrates it. "Voting for him is a vote in their own best interest" is what he sold himself as and yet did nothing more than say he knew what was best for minority voters.
Come on.
My friend is Asian and he's Bernie or bust. All I see on his FB wall is young turks and not even Obama's endorsement moved him. He just pointed out "paid by Hillary". As soon as I saw that I realized yeah there's nothing changing his mind, not even worth trying to talk to him. To him it's all a conspiracy when Bernie loses or anything negative is said about him.
This is a really good point.
Throwing a hissy fit and effectively no longer caring about who wins the presidency, or even worse, voting for Trump, just because Bernie lost, is basically your cue that they don't give a shit about the possibility that minorities are going to be lead under an open racist.
Which starts to raise questions about people's true character.
Aaronrules380
Member
Focusing on the voting record also misses the point since the president doesn't vote. Voting record reveals how they responded to bills and proposals that were presented to them. But it doesn't really reveal much about their priorities for what they themselves would present to others. And that's what's important for a president. Sanders showed himself time and again to be completely ignorant on racial issues, and refused to deal with them as a complex web of factors beyond economic corruption.
nocturnalis
Member
If I didn't recognize the sarcasm, I would be super pissed.
Frozenprince
Banned
It was very disappointing how Bernie never really took the opportunity to connect how American capitalism was built by and continues to be upheld by racism. Shouldn't have been hard for any self professed socialist to do.
Aaronrules380
Member
Because it's dismissive of the real reason he lost (minorities), which had nothing to do with the conservatives, who wouldn't even be voting in democratic primaries,
You guys are right, I shouldn't have posted at all, it's just a few months of building stress coming out.
Frozenprince
Banned
Or maybe if he talked about Racism at all as something other than a purely economic issue.
But he didn't.
You literally just quoted something in which he says he lost because the states were conservative, when he lost the south because of the minority spread.
Something he ignored, or at the very least was ignorant of during the primary.
Leona Lewis
Banned
Even beyond the racial divide, the effects of Bernie-or-Bust on the courts alone would be disastrous and take decades to reverse.
Luckily, there's lots of time for Trump to show the remaining stalwarts how wrong they were to even consider him.
Luckily, there's lots of time for Trump to show the remaining stalwarts how wrong they were to even consider him.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
Did Bernie ever mention giving funding to HBCU's? Nope.
What manner of helping racial communities beyond fucking Wall Street did Bernie ever give?
Bernie regularly said that black folks need lifting out of poverty as if he equated poverty with being black when the majority of us are middle class.
Thinking about it, I was dumb to ever support him. The wool left my eyes when it was far too late. Oh well. Let this be a lesson.
Where's that article that was posted in the BCT months ago that gave reasons why black voters mostly weren't feeling the Bern? It had everything you could want in it.
What manner of helping racial communities beyond fucking Wall Street did Bernie ever give?
Bernie regularly said that black folks need lifting out of poverty as if he equated poverty with being black when the majority of us are middle class.
Thinking about it, I was dumb to ever support him. The wool left my eyes when it was far too late. Oh well. Let this be a lesson.
Where's that article that was posted in the BCT months ago that gave reasons why black voters mostly weren't feeling the Bern? It had everything you could want in it.
This is demonstrably false.
Aaronrules380
Member
How so?
gutter_trash
Banned
his failure to answer Foreign Policy questions concerning countries in Latin America that concern Hispanic Americans who still have relatives in those countries...
Sanders ducked it because he wanted to avoid talking about Chavez, Maduro, Molares, Ortega or Castro.
he didn't know how to position himself in such questions during a Primary campaign and just dodged it when people who have know Sanders for decades now his real opinion on the Left in Latin American countries.
showing up only when a Primary contest happens is a minimalist thing to do. You gotta create ties and links with the communities in those other States during the span of a political career not just when the Primary calendar arrives.
Oh please lmao.
Let's pretend he actually said: "We lost the Deep South because of the minority vote. We got murdered."
You've still yet to prove how that means he ignores and does not support minorities.
That quote is simply matter-of-fact: He lost. Whether it's due to conservatism or due to the minority vote siding with Hillary, that's a different issue. But back up your claim that he ignores and does not support minorities. Just because that demographic didn't vote him in doesn't mean he's against them. You're using some backwards logic.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
Do you think this is to stay? It feels like they've been influenced by The Atlantic in some ways.
Voysa Reezun
Banned
Note: Only speaking about black people here in terms of minorities. Hillary, apart from her issues attacking Obama with stuff like the madrassa picture in '08, has always been a favorite of black folks.
Plus, and I'm only speaking as one black Hillary voter, she represents a continuation of Obama policies, and I really love Obama and his policies for the most part, particularly domestically. It irritates me that Sanders voters are indirectly shitting on Obama by calling for a revolution after eight years of Obama steadily making this country just a little bit better for everyone via the ACA, his SCOTUS appointments helping to make the right decision on Obergfell, etc.
I'm sure other black folks feel like I do, and I'm guessing that this explains a lot of the support.
Frozenprince
Banned
Bernie's by state campaign spending spells out that he viewed the south as expendable. He spent almost half his total funds on NE and California.
Aaronrules380
Member
Nobody is saying he's against blacks though. We're saying he's completely and willfully ignorant of the issues they face and refuses to look at them past the idea of economic corruption, when that's only a small piece of what they face. How could he, as president, be able to aid in combating racism in this country when he refuses to see it as more than just an economic issue?
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