Mass shooting at Orlando gay nightclub [50 dead, 53 injured]
- Thread starter dc89
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So we should talk about rounding up all the Muslims?
So you want to tell me that it would be just as easy to kill 20 people with a knife?
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
Can you quickly stab 20 people to death?
AusRoachman
Member
When was the last time you heard of a nightclub massacre with a knife ?
RPGCrazied
Member
Yeah, not buying that. Might get one or 2 people, but that is it.
I'm not arguing otherwise.
PHOENIXZERO
Member
Why would they use a knife in a mass murder attempt when explosives would be easy enough to concoct? Not as easy as opening fire on a crowd but if your goal is to kill as many people as possible the next choice would be a bomb.
Not to mention what would happen if it was actually attempted, tens of millions in this country would go absolutely apeshit. Politicians supporting it would need to all be under protection 24/7 and probably covered from head to toe with body armor.
Shit isn't going to change until the 200+ years of ingrained gun culture changes.
Not to mention what would happen if it was actually attempted, tens of millions in this country would go absolutely apeshit. Politicians supporting it would need to all be under protection 24/7 and probably covered from head to toe with body armor.
Shit isn't going to change until the 200+ years of ingrained gun culture changes.
The attacker is supposedly called Omar Mateen, US citizen.
https://twitter.com/BBCBreaking/status/741989143736127489
https://twitter.com/BBCBreaking/status/741989143736127489
Marauder Shields
Member
This thread is about this specific domestic terrorist incident. You can talk about those issues in other threads if you like.
How would many people obtain guns if sales were well regulated, had background checks and mandated wait periods? Sure, some would fall through the cracks but still many crimes would be prevented.
If someone is linked to an Islamic terror group, odds are they will be on a watch list.
Obviously this needs to be backed up with a system of identifying, registering and recording as many guns and owners as possible, but it's not an unknowable solution here. It's done in many other countries.
United Kingdom-
Firearms per 100 people: 6.7
Homicides per 100.000 people: 1.0
Denmark-
Firearms per 100 people: 12.0
Homicides per 100.000 people: 1.0
Sweden-
Firearms per 100 people: 31.6
Homicides per 100.000 people: 0.9
Switzerland-
Firearms per 100 people: 45.7
Homicides per 100.000 people: 0.5
Germany-
Firearms per 100 people: 30.3
Homicides per 100.000 people: 0.9
Sources: 1 and 2
I could go on and on and on.
Firearms per 100 people: 6.7
Homicides per 100.000 people: 1.0
Denmark-
Firearms per 100 people: 12.0
Homicides per 100.000 people: 1.0
Sweden-
Firearms per 100 people: 31.6
Homicides per 100.000 people: 0.9
Switzerland-
Firearms per 100 people: 45.7
Homicides per 100.000 people: 0.5
Germany-
Firearms per 100 people: 30.3
Homicides per 100.000 people: 0.9
Sources: 1 and 2
I could go on and on and on.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
Until it is learned how these weapons were acquired I don't think you can just cast it aside.
GoldenEye 007
Member
Fuck off.
Sure, but meanwhile, this was posted in the Christina Grimmie thread.
It seems to show that gun-related homicide is a major component of the US's homicide rate per capita compared to other developed countries. Appears contradictory to what you're claiming.
Also you discount the effectiveness and lethality of guns compared to what other alternatives people may use to kill someone.
Public opinion in the US is unprepared to accept gun control. In my opinion it will take (regrettably) a generational change before enough of America could accept gun control.
And that change will not happen as long as one side of the issue has a large, well funded advocacy group, and the other doesn't. It will take gun control advocates organizing, getting funding, and sticking with it for decades before there is a realistic chance for any action.
And that change will not happen as long as one side of the issue has a large, well funded advocacy group, and the other doesn't. It will take gun control advocates organizing, getting funding, and sticking with it for decades before there is a realistic chance for any action.
RPGCrazied
Member
What the fuck? How? I know Carson is a loon, but just how?
This isn't the first mass shooting.
It would be interesting to see what the Swiss are doing to have such a high gun ownership while also having such a small homicide rate.
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
Same guy who said he wouldn't "just stand there and get shot" when discussing a previous mass shooting.
The answer is at least partly better equality and less poverty along with a more homogeneous population.
GoldenEye 007
Member
Majority of Americans are in favor of reforms. Our chief issue is the NRA and a Congress that does not represent people.
I will also admit previous attempts at reforms have been useless as they have been focusing basically on the look of a gun. Reforms moving forward must focus on access, mental health, storage and safety requirements, etc.
LordRaptor
Member
Evil socialist policies that provide a basic standard of living for all regardless of wealth
Rebel Leader
THE POWER OF BUTTERSCOTCH BOTTOMS
And more training with weapons.
Another reason for sure.
The point I was making, and that I unfortunately have to keep on making.
More firearms does not = more homicides.
The U.S is a case in of itself because it has so many other issues that Europe is without.
Basically said gay people need to understand that Islamists hate them and to stop trying to go against the right wing, or else more atrocities like this will happen. He's blathering on now and literally just said peaceful Muslims are "afraid" and "that they need to understand they need to work with us and that if they refuse to work with us then I'm afraid that perhaps some of the darker elements of our nature may take hold of our actions". Sweet merciful Christ!
partyphone
Banned
I have a hard time pinning all the blame on the NRA. They deserve a lot of it to be sure but they couldn't do it without the help from the average person. Far too many people take the constitution as gospel when it should be a living, breathing document.
I mean, look at the automobile industry. They're very rich and powerful but they've been forced by the government to spend billions of dollars making cars safer. this is what 50 years of that looks like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtxd27jlZ_g . and in 50 more years we'll be able to take a self driving car to commit a mass shooting.
I mean, look at the automobile industry. They're very rich and powerful but they've been forced by the government to spend billions of dollars making cars safer. this is what 50 years of that looks like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtxd27jlZ_g . and in 50 more years we'll be able to take a self driving car to commit a mass shooting.
So sad what happened. This needs to end.
Two thoughts:
1) Finally a mass shooting by a US-born citizen is rightly called "domestic terrorism." Oh, wait... the suspect was a Muslim born to Afghan parents. Guess that's why.
2) The US banned Kinder Eggs, and can fine you $5000 for bringing one across the border, because a few useless children choked to death on them. But, tens of thousands of people a year are shot to death, and guns are perfectly fine, because millions of adult children will throw a temper tantrum if they're taken away.
Two thoughts:
1) Finally a mass shooting by a US-born citizen is rightly called "domestic terrorism." Oh, wait... the suspect was a Muslim born to Afghan parents. Guess that's why.
2) The US banned Kinder Eggs, and can fine you $5000 for bringing one across the border, because a few useless children choked to death on them. But, tens of thousands of people a year are shot to death, and guns are perfectly fine, because millions of adult children will throw a temper tantrum if they're taken away.
1. You've omitted the US from those stats.
2. You've made no mention of gun control laws in those countries.
http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/c...ilian_firearm_possession/10,50,69,178,194,177
I'm not sure if you're being intentionally misleading or what. The difference with the US and most other countries is responsible gun control. That doesn't mean a ban on guns. Australia enacted responsible gun control laws 20 years ago and still has somewhat high gun ownership compared to, say, the UK.
Mammoth Jones
Member
Ugh, RIP to the dead and I hope the survivors recover.
Definitely want to know the details. Was this guy some wannabe jihadist, did he have online communications with any groups, or was he just another home grown crazy off his meds with access to firearms? Or some combo?
This was definitely planned.
Definitely want to know the details. Was this guy some wannabe jihadist, did he have online communications with any groups, or was he just another home grown crazy off his meds with access to firearms? Or some combo?
This was definitely planned.
But what about less firearms = less homicide?
And most gun deaths aren't homicides, correct? So even less accidental deaths would be worth the restrictions.
RPGCrazied
Member
Damn. This man belongs in a mental hospital. He is gone.
Silent Chief
Member
Half of the Swiss number are militia guns which are not taken home.
I've omitted the U.S. because it's the odd one out, there's so many cultural and societal differences that it's not meaningful to compare.
I didn't mention gun control because it wasn't a part of what I wanted to prove.
I proved that more firearms does not = more homicides, there's no direct corelation.
There can be a bunch of other reasons that means less homicides, but it has nothing to do with firearms.
We don't know yet, it's an american citizen from afghan origin, apparently he wasn't known from services. There is a press conference in 15mn.
partyphone
Banned
average flag waving american: america is the greatest country on earth we can do anything!
rational person: we have too many gun deaths we need to do something about this
average flag waving american: that's impossible there's already too many guns out there.
elrechazado
Banned
Your contributions have been incredibly constructive.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
His target being a gay nightclub could be coincidental or convenient but it's certainly worth looking into as a factor. Not like there aren't plenty of people out there who still have insane hatred of homosexuality.
Did you look up the numbers I posted, they literally prove that less firearms is not = less homicides.
The U.K have 1/20th of the firearms of Switzerland but have double the amount of homicides.
In Europe the vast majority of gun deaths are suicides.
Don't use stupid talking points as an argument.
I doubt it's coincidental, but it might have been convenient. I suspect he would have terrorized any place with a bunch of people, it just so happens this club was close enough for him to get to easily and also happened to cater to a group he hates.
Cultural differences like... The Second Amendment and lack of sound gun control laws? What other cultural differences are you talking about?
So the US doesn't count just because it doesn't fit your narrative?
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