• Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!

Mass shooting at Orlando gay nightclub [50 dead, 53 injured]

Status
Not open for further replies.
Why didn't he get a pilots license?

Probably because it's really hard to get one, especially after 9/11.

It also requires money time and a fairly high functioning mental state, and places you under scrutiny from the Feds. Unlike that other hobby, recreational high powered weapon ownership which requires just a spur of the moment type urge.
 
Not seeing what I'm deflecting? I've already said it's easier to commit mass murder with firearms. What more do you want me to say?

All I'm saying is, this pipedream that we can rid the world of horrific events is just that, a dream.

Humans are vile and they'll find a way to kill you if they want it bad enough, be it with guns, explosives or whatever else.

So what is your point?
 
Okay, if it's not a hobby, what well regulated Militia are you signed up to?
Don't worry, Congress covered this a long time ago:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/311
The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.
 
Why can't we have both arguments? Why does focusing on religious extremism mean we don't have to touch gun laws at all?

There's a whole bunch of different issues here. Singling out a single one is missing the point. Terrorism exists in countries with far stricter gun laws than the US. Someone inclined to cause terror will find a way. By the same token, US guns laws obviously make an attack like this so much easier, so banning guns would undeniably help. You'd be crazy if you thought that it was going to solve an issue like terrorism completely though. It just adds another hurdle and complication for would-be terrorists.

The factor of Islamic terrorism is real too, as seen all over the world. It exists and there is no need to skirt around saying it.
 
I'm a mixture of stunned, mad, grossed-out and so very disappointed. The dialogue in this country is likely to be toxic in the next few days with Islamphobia x 100000000 and probably a general sweeping under the rug of the outright Homophobia that looks to be the driving force of this attack. An obvious hate crime that might have been a terrorist attack (in the "traditional-hired/organized-by-a-group-sense") too? Ugh. All I can do is pray for the victims and their families and hope the country as a whole can move forward in a direction (Literally any direction! DO SOMETHING AMERICA!) that makes tragedies like these MUCH less frequent.
 
We've stayed in the Middle East for years now and it's not working. You really don't know what you're talking about.

Years is different from decades. Real commitment is needed to fix real problems. Not commitment that can be changed by the whims of the people over the course of months and years.
 
WFTV Eyewitness News ‏@WFTV 31s32 seconds ago
FBI says it 1st became aware of guman in 2013. He was interviewed twice and investigation was closed. #PulseShooting #Pray4Orlando

WFTV Eyewitness News ‏@WFTV 6s6 seconds ago
FBI: "We want to be as transparent as possible." - confirms 911 calls from gunman with comments on ISIS. #PulseShooting #Pray4Orlando
 
FBI update saying that they had already interviewed the shooter (2014, IIRC)

EDIT: Interviewed TWICE. Once in 2013 and again in 2014
 
Not seeing what I'm deflecting? I've already said it's easier to commit mass murder with firearms. What more do you want me to say?

All I'm saying is, this pipedream that we can rid the world of horrific events is just that, a dream.

Humans are vile and they'll find a way to kill you if they want it bad enough, be it with guns, explosives or whatever else.

You are being disingenuous, do you know that?

No one is saying we are going to get rid of all horrific events, we are saying lets try and reduce their frequency and effectiveness. Do you understand?

We are saying if we put in some minimal regulations and enforcement we can reduce those horrific events. Okay?
 
At least we're not at the FALSE FLAG CRISIS ACTORS stage yet.

trust me, if you'd ever known one of those fucking imbeciles in real life you'd know that they're always in FALSE FLAG CRISIS ACTORS stage. It's their first thought when shit like this happens. They're that fucking stupid, no lie.
 
So what is your point?
My point is that the acts of mass murder with the highest bodycounts was committed with explosives that was illegal to manufacture.

You can't stop said attacks because the items used in explosives are something modern society can't do without.

Imposing strict gun laws and banning certain types of firearms will stop some massacres, but can never stop them all.

There's nothing more to it than that.
 
Not seeing what I'm deflecting? I've already said it's easier to commit mass murder with firearms. What more do you want me to say?

All I'm saying is, this pipedream that we can rid the world of horrific events is just that, a dream.

Humans are vile and they'll find a way to kill you if they want it bad enough, be it with guns, explosives or whatever else.

We just want to get rid of guns, not every every horrific event.
 
I'm not so sure about that. I thought that ISIS was "good" about not claiming attacks that weren't theirs. For instance, they said about the San Bernardino attacks "this wasn't organized by us but boy, are we proud of them!"

They literally claim everything they can because they know easily swayed turds will bite on obvious propaganda.
 
Well it doesn't matter because America won't change a god damn thing about its gun laws and shit like this will continue to happen.

Thats right, America won't change. It's going to continue to happen. We are all going to become numb to it and start betting on where the next mass shooting will take place. Another movie theater? A football game?
 
I see we're still all like "there's no way to fix this" even though literally every other top country has done so.

‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens
http://www.theonion.com/article/no-way-to-prevent-this-says-only-nation-where-this-36131

Everyone, follow that link and think about if you even remember the context in which this was posted. And every other time this Onion story gets reprinted with a new city.

Exactly this. People claiming that there's nothing to be done see their opinion repeated as a freaking Onion headline and they still take that position seriously? How does that even work?
 
And here we go:

pvSrKkr.png

Oh god, just fuck off Trump.
 
Not seeing what I'm deflecting? I've already said it's easier to commit mass murder with firearms. What more do you want me to say?

All I'm saying is, this pipedream that we can rid the world of horrific events is just that, a dream.

Humans are vile and they'll find a way to kill you if they want it bad enough, be it with guns, explosives or whatever else.

No shit. The point people are making is that there are other countries that restrict or outright outlaw guns and events like these happen less
 
Untrue.

John Hopkins University Study: News Stories Often Link Violence With Mental Health Illness, Even Though People With Mental Health Illness Are Rarely Violent

To be fair, the state of mental health research is pretty far back compared to most other organs. There may be neuropsychiatric causes that may pass off as normal but lead to increased violence or emotional responses to things. But generally classical mental health problems lead to being victims not perpetrators.
 
Withdrawing from Iraq lead to creation of ISIS - creation of such organization is only possible in vacuum where government doesn't control situation in their own country.

Although you are correct - keeping strong dictatorship Saddam had would also prevent creation of ISIS - no need to care about all those brown people he was killing in his own country.

Going into Iraq in the first place, when Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11, created the power vacuum that caused the creation of ISIS.
 
My point is that the acts of mass murder with the highest bodycounts was committed with explosives that was illegal to manufacture.

You can't stop said attacks because the items used in explosives are something modern society can't do without.

Imposing strict gun laws and banning certain types of firearms will stop some massacres, but can never stop them all.

There's nothing more to it than that.

So...shouldn't we enact stricter gun regulation? Is that your point?
 
people don't give a fuck about mental illness. it's just a common deflection tactic away from the real issue of guns.
It's a shame though. Mental illness is a huge issue any modern society should be willing to tackle, but I get the impression the only times it's brought up is in the wake of these devastating events, as an "either or" proposition.
 
My point is that the acts of mass murder with the highest bodycounts was committed with explosives that was illegal to manufacture.

You can't stop said attacks because the items used in explosives are something modern society can't do without.

Imposing strict gun laws and banning certain types of firearms will stop some massacres, but can never stop them all.

There's nothing more to it than that.

so what's the not-obvious point? Of course an utopia is impossible but you can do something to diminish the rate of the attacks.
 
Thoughts on the attack by former Muslim Nabeel Qureshi:

As an ex-Muslim who loves America and my Muslim family, my heart is hurting beyond expression.

Today we witnessed the worst mass shooting in American history: 50 tragically killed in an ‪#‎Orlando‬ gay bar. The authorities announced the details just a few minutes ago: it was Omar Mir Seddique Mateen, a devout American-born Muslim who had pledged his allegiance to ISIL. (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...b-shooting-injuries-reported-at-pulse-orland/)

Mateen's father has said the shooting had "nothing to do with religion," and that his son may have committed this crime because he saw "two men kissing in Downtown Miami a couple months ago." But no one goes on a killing rampage for seeing two men kiss. Clearly there's more to this than his father doesn't see. I do not blame him, though. His son has just died, and he's not in a state to think clearly. We ought to be praying for him.

None of us can think entirely objectively, especially at the heels of a terrorist attack charged with so many political controversies. The rhetoric and agendas are flying, even though the dust has not yet settled. Gun control? Homophobia? Islamophobia?

As we are clouded by agendas and struggling to react, two opposing positions are coming to the fore: "Islam is a religion of peace and Mateen's actions therefore have nothing to do with Islam," or "Islam is inherently violent therefore we must see all Muslims as latent threats."

As an American and a former Muslim, my heart is torn by these two poles of rhetoric. Those who take the first position are endangering my country by overlooking the very real cause of Jihad, which are the teachings and history of Islam. Those who take the latter position are endangering my Muslim family and friends, loving and patriotic Muslims that are as innocent and American as the rest of us.

The fact is, the vast majority of Muslims are loving, peaceful people who would never want to hurt any American or homosexual. I know this because I was deeply rooted in the Muslim community, and not a single Muslim out of the thousands I knew were violent or harbored violent tendencies. (The community I am referring to is in Norfolk, Virginia, with Sunnis, Shias, and others attending the same mosque. It was an open-armed and diverse Muslim community.)

Regardless, Islam itself has always taught that gays should be executed. Muhammad commanded: "If you find anyone doing as Lot’s people did, kill the one who does it, and the one to whom it is done." (Sunan Abu Daud 4447) Imams who have been trained in these Islamic teachings are teaching in our communities. Just three months ago, an imam who is well known for proclaiming Muhammad's teachings on homosexuality spoke in Orlando. In a prior speech about homosexuals he was noted to have said, "Let's get rid of them now." (video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBlwxqqAprQ; news article: http://www.wftv.com/news/local/iran...osexuality-outrages-some-in-sanford/185803158) The imam spoke at an Islamic center that is less than 20 miles from the site of today's atrocities. Some American-born Muslims, such as Omar, are taking teachings like these at face value, listening to their imams and following Muhammad.

How can we understand this dilemma? How do we not react against all Muslims despite the fact that Islam has always taught such violence? My answer is simple: truth and love. This may sound trite or fanciful, but I am not advocating a whimsical or baseless love, which would never stand in the face of Jihad. I think we must respond with a love grounded in truth and self-sacrifice, reflecting the person and heart of Jesus Christ. We need to acknowledge the truth about Islam while holding that in tension with a respect and love for Muslims. (If you want more on this, I wrote a book on the topic after San Bernardino, ‪#‎AnsweringJihad‬: http://www.nabeelqureshi.com/answering-jihad).

Orlando marks the beginning of a new phase in our nation's history: The worst mass-shooting on American soil is now an Islamist terror attack. Our country has to respond, and it will respond. I pray that those of you who have taken the time to read this (thank you) will be a voice for responding with truth and love.

(Source)
 
My point is that the acts of mass murder with the highest bodycounts was committed with explosives that was illegal to manufacture.

You can't stop said attacks because the items used in explosives are something modern society can't do without.

Imposing strict gun laws and banning certain types of firearms will stop some massacres, but can never stop them all.

There's nothing more to it than that.

If it can stop some that's a victory, mental health evaluations and evaluating potential criminal connections should definitely be part of acquiring a firearm. As well, all firearms should be registered. If not to a name, it should be registered to an address.
 
So no second suspect being sought by the FBI. Also they aren't saying whether the suspect pledged allegiance to ISIS on a 911 call.
 
My point is that the acts of mass murder with the highest bodycounts was committed with explosives that was illegal to manufacture.

You can't stop said attacks because the items used in explosives are something modern society can't do without.

Imposing strict gun laws and banning certain types of firearms will stop some massacres, but can never stop them all.

There's nothing more to it than that.

So you have spent all this time to say, gun laws aren't going to stop all massacres. Congrats, we all know that and never argued otherwise.
 
How have mods not come in here yet? Isn't this supposed to be a news thread? Go start a gun debate thread somewhere else.
 
Hate to say it, but it's fucking true

...In fact, I'd say it's too conveniently true.

Going to make some phonecalls to some individuals. Want to get to the bottom of this and see if Trump had any hand in this as a false-flag attack to boost his campaign.

It's more probable than you think. This guy IS the second-coming of Hitler afterall.
 
Not the resignation part, the RIT point. Say it Obama.

But he already has before. It's a stupid canned phrase the GOP keeps changing to try and portray him as someone that doesn't care about protecting americans.

It's great we have a President that doesn't take the easy way out of stoking embers.
 
So no one wants to question why a guy who was suspected of radicalism twice could still purchase a high powered weapon? I understand not wanting to put an agenda on something but this is ridiculous, he should be put in Gitmo for less but he can still buy a weapon?
 
I'm sorry to inform you that's never going to happen.

Actually I'm not, but I'm sure you know that.

It's ok I know they will be eventually, may not in my lifetime but it will happen. Luckily the people who hold on to their guns like a boob are slowly dissapearing :)

We have proven than we are not responsible enough to have the right to own guns. If people used a rifle like my dad would, hunting and self protection at his home I would have a problem. Sadly that doesn't seem to be enough for people.
 
Orlando marks the beginning of a new phase in our nation's history: The worst mass-shooting on American soil is now an Islamist terror attack. Our country has to respond, and it will respond. I pray that those of you who have taken the time to read this (thank you) will be a voice for responding with truth and love.

Wow never thought of it that way.
 
Withdrawing from Iraq lead to creation of ISIS - creation of such organization is only possible in vacuum where government doesn't control situation in their own country.

Although you are correct - keeping strong dictatorship Saddam had would also prevent creation of ISIS - no need to care about all those brown people he was killing in his own country.

The world has far, far, FAR more heinous villains than Saddam. Pretending otherwise to justify our interference is laughable.

And something like ISIS was inevitable once we destabilized the region. Unless we intended to stay in the middle east forever.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom