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[Red]

So far today I've heard two people condone the shooting. One cited Sodom and Gomorrah. A third person did not condone it but said "he could've done a lot worse than a bunch of fags." These things hit me worse than the news sometimes.

 

[Already Torn]

Why can't we have both arguments? Why does focusing on religious extremism mean we don't have to touch gun laws at all?

I don't think anyone has a good answer for this, it's just not happening for some reason.

 

[smokeandmirrors]

"People like you"

You are making up a boogeyman irrationally about who I am because I don't want Americans (Americans who aren't me) to have the freedom to bear arms stripped away from them.

Think about what a few of you people are saying. Or don't. You progressives just want to build a little impossible utopia you think exists.

yes people like you holding us back from actually getting anything done with gun control. No boogeyman. Just people like you defending a disgusting hobby and getting all offended when someone calls it that.

A man decided to kill as many people as he could because of his intolerant religion. We can start here and work our way into the tools he used. Thank God he didn't have a pilot's license.

with tools he was able to purchase legally and incredibly easily.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

I see we're still all like "there's no way to fix this" even though literally every other top country has done so.

‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens
http://www.theonion.com/article/no-way-to-prevent-this-says-only-nation-where-this-36131

Everyone, follow that link and think about if you even remember the context in which this was posted. And every other time this Onion story gets reprinted with a new city.

 

[Oriel]

READ: Official ISIS Statement on Orlando Terror Attack by Amaq News Agency

This is from ISIS' own news agency.

Yeah, but they were never going to do anything else really. ISIS will always claim credit.

 

[Arrogant Bastard]

The deadliest terrorist attacks on American soil have all been committed with explosives of one kind or the other.

Because of the fact that you can make explosives from common household items (that we can't ban because we actually need them to function as a society) there will always be the possibility of explosives used for attacks like this.

I agree guns make it more easy, because it does take some effort and dedication to craft explosives.

But this is never going away, as long as we're free humans, someone will violate that trust.

Wonder why we don't have more explosive attacks in America? Wonder why the weapon of choice is a gun. Interesting, no?

Oh well, no need to address it, just point to explosives. People gonna people after all.

 

[Coffinhal]

The deadliest terrorist attacks on American soil have all been committed with explosives of one kind or the other.

Because of the fact that you can make explosives from common household items (that we can't ban because we actually need them to function as a society) there will always be the possibility of explosives used for attacks like this.

I agree guns make it more easy, because it does take some effort and dedication to craft explosives.

But this is never going away, as long as we're free humans, someone will violate that trust.

So we should sell gun, explosives etc. to everyone since yeah, they get it or can do it on their own anyway. Rules are overrated.

 

[MihowZa]

We don't have countries where millions die a year from pressure cookers though.

You mean almost 6,000? Not millions, right?

 

[FStop7]

Man with assault rifle(s) arrested near the LA Pride parade.

https://twitter.com/jeffnguyen/status/742056150565163009

 

[Jisgsaw]

Great "only my people know what's good for the country" that sounds fantastic and not childish at all.

I don't own a gun, I've been in the US for 26 years and I have seen a gun outside of a police officer one time, when I went to a gun range in SFL 6 years ago. We (immigrants) come here for the freedoms that we enjoy and the rights we are given as US citizens. You keep being dismissive and drive people away with your rhetoric though.

You carefully avoided the point he was making where owning slaves was a right at the time that amendment was written too.
I wonder why.

 

[Alavard]

READ: Official ISIS Statement on Orlando Terror Attack by Amaq News Agency

This is from ISIS' own news agency.

They said similar things about San Bernadino at first, calling them soldiers of the Islamic State. Later they backed down and said they were 'supporters'. I will wait for the investigation on this part.

 

[everyday math]

The deadliest terrorist attacks on American soil have all been committed with explosives of one kind or the other.

Because of the fact that you can make explosives from common household items (that we can't ban because we actually need them to function as a society) there will always be the possibility of explosives used for attacks like this.

I agree guns make it more easy, because it does take some effort and dedication to craft explosives.

But this is never going away, as long as we're free humans, someone will violate that trust.

We're talking about guns. A deadly weapon that has just killed 50 people. Not explosives which btw are illegal. Why can we makes laws for one, but not the other?

 

[2MF]

condolences

of course ISIS will claim responsibilities, but you can't trust ISIS on anything. Need proper investigation.

Surprisingly (or maybe not?) they didn't claim responsibility for the Egyptair crash. So maybe they're not really known for always claiming they did things?

 

[Lead]

Wonder why we don't have more explosive attacks in America? Wonder why the weapon of choice is a gun. Interesting, no?

Oh well, no need to address it, just point to explosives. People gonna people after all.

So we should sell gun, explosives etc. to everyone since yeah, they get it or can do it on their own anyway. Rules are overrated.

We already do address it, it's illegal to manufacture explosives with intent of harm.

 

[Already Torn]

You mean almost 6,000? Not millions, right?

We don't have those countries either.

 

[smokeandmirrors]

You carefully avoided the point he was making where owning slaves was a right at the time that amendment was written too.
I wonder why.

see their other post about it being an inner city problem and bringing up chicago... tells you all you need to know really.

 

[OrbitalBeard]

A man decided to kill as many people as he could because of his intolerant religion. We can start here and work our way into the tools he used. Thank God he didn't have a pilot's license.

Start there? So you're ok with snuffing out one's religious beliefs but the mere suggestion of new gun regulation is off the table for you?

This mindset is sadly all-too normal in this country.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

condolences

of course ISIS will claim responsibilities, but you can't trust ISIS on anything. Need proper investigation.

Technically, anyone that pledges allegiance to them is an IS fighter. There's nothing wrong about the statement itself but they probably didn't know the guy existed until today either.

 

[Coffinhal]

We already do address it, it's illegal to manufacture explosives with intent of harm.

Do you read the posts you answer to or do you miss the point on purpose ?

 

[tubster68]

Mother of God.
A mental punishment where the shooter must live with the fact that he can't live with what he did, while living inside a cell for the rest of his life, is the worst type of natural punishment i can think of.

Condolences

PS. Is it bad that as soon as i saw his name, i immediately thought "Omar Coming"?... Too soon? I'm sorry...

 

[Arrogant Bastard]

We already do address it, it's illegal to manufacture explosives with intent of harm.

Why do you keep bringing up explosives and deflecting the issues?

Do you read the posts you answer to or do you miss the point on purpose ?

It is on purpose.

 

[Joe Shlabotnik]

Not to be even more on NeoGaf's shit list but the majority of gun violence exists in inner cities. America has an inner city crime problem, related heavily with guns. That's it. Even Chicago has only several blocks of completely unacceptable terrain where I would not recommend going. Just look @ a map of where gun violence occurs. To paint a brush stroke over 300+million people in such a large land mass is absurd.

By that rationale, casualties from Islamic-extremist terrorism in the US are an almost invisible fraction compared to inner city gun violence casualties, so one assumes you're even that much less concerned about it.

 

[eyeball_kid]

I'd just like to chime in and say that owning a gun is a right. Dismissing it as a hobby is disgusting.

Okay, if it's not a hobby, what well regulated Militia are you signed up to?

 

[TakumiTrueno]

It really doesn't matter what religion or faith this guy believed it. How did he get the weapons? He got them here in the US legally. Just the same as every other mass shooting in this country. The reason Japan or Australia isn't worried about shit like this happening is because it is damn near impossible to get a gun over there.

Japan has 0-1 killing by guns a year. I said killing, not plural. There isn't mass knifing, or mass killings by other means over there.

Like others have said, it's not a right to own a gun. Its a hobby. Its also not a right to own a car, I love cars, its my hobby but if for some reason, driving cars was made illegal then I would just have to suck it up and deal with it.

 

[reckless]

In any case, assault rifles should be policed properly. Going to any store and get one with basically no questions asked is insane.

In Norway you have to be granted a license and all guns have to be registered. Before getting one you have to be registered at a local gun club. Also limit on how many guns you can have, based on type of animals you are hunting or type of competitions you do. In addition you are required to get a weapon cabinet for all guns. Even the cabinet needs to be documented. It even have to fill requirements.

That can't hide the fact that we had this happened in Norway a few years ago. It is the first time it did in that scale. Laws can't stop everything, but it will limit it to some extent. What is different with this case is that this in Florida was not planned, while the one Breivik in Norway was planned for years.

If you go to a store you get an instant background check done on you, but thats about it.

I think focusing on rifles is the biggest problem right now, the last big gun regulation law passed was the assault weapons ban back in the 90's that has since expired. The problem is rifles are only used in like 5% of homicides a year compared to something like 75% for handguns which is near 10,000 deaths a year.

If the gun violence really wants to be curtailed in the U.S handguns are the weapons that need to be targeted but they never are. Politicians mostly just care about looking like they are doing something and the public only cares about gun violence when there is a mass shooting.

 

[robochimp]

I would have people begin a discussion on why people are willing to kill other people.

Short circuit the logic to how something happened, while not focusing on the why this is happening, is avoiding the issue.

When someone breaks up with someone, we focus on the why not the how. When someone dies in the hospital, we don't focus on how they died (respitory failure) we focus on why (respitory failure due to pulmonary embolism etc). When a person kills someone, we should focus on WHY they killed, not what tool was used.

We solve nothing to avoid the real issue of why people kill.

Gun, knife, gasoline, pressure cooker, homemade bomb, beatings etc. There are a 1000 ways how, but it is easier for people to avoid and discuss the why.

We know why people commit mass shootings, it's mental illness.

We avoid that discussion because congress doesn't want to pay for it and it's not an easy political sell.

it seems silly to try and ignore guns in the equation. If a mentally ill person acts out with a knife they're not going to kill and injure 100 people.

 

[MihowZa]

yes people like you holding us back from actually getting anything done with gun control. No boogeyman. Just people like you defending a disgusting hobby and getting all offended when someone calls it that.



with tools he was able to purchase legally and incredibly easily.

I'm not offended. You don't get to drive the narrative like that. I just think it's disgusting to dismiss a right as a mere hobby and I think a lot of people born in America forget what makes the US great and enticing to the rest of the world.

 

[michaelius]

Invading Iraq directly lead to the creation of ISIS...

Also advocating the use of countries as literal human shields. Fuck 'em, eh? They're only brown people in poor countries. Not like they count as human.

Withdrawing from Iraq lead to creation of ISIS - creation of such organization is only possible in vacuum where government doesn't control situation in their own country.

Although you are correct - keeping strong dictatorship Saddam had would also prevent creation of ISIS - no need to care about all those brown people he was killing in his own country.

 

[Doc Holliday]

A man decided to kill as many people as he could because of his intolerant religion. We can start here and work our way into the tools he used. Thank God he didn't have a pilot's license.

Why didn't he get a pilots license?

Probably because it's really hard to get one, especially after 9/11.

I actually grew up with guns and rifles, my dad was in the NRA. But my dad a one hand gun and a hunting rifle. His handgun and rifle were under lock and key. He has to renew his license once a year i think, were in New York.

I have no idea why you would need an ar-15 for hunting.

 

[Arrogant Bastard]

If you go to a store you get an instant background check done on you, but thats about it.

Good thing we have Gun Shows and private sells were I don't have to do a background check or wait on my weapon of choice. God Bless America!

Withdrawing from Iraq lead to creation of ISIS - creation of such organization is only possible in vacuum where government doesn't control situation in their own country.

Although you are correct - keeping strong dictatorship Saddam had would also prevent creation of ISIS - no need to care about all those brown people he was killing in his own country.

Yep, just occupy it forever, love that plan. Who is paying for that, monetary and physical costs.

 

[Jackpot]

I'd just like to chime in and say that owning a gun is a right. Dismissing it as a hobby is disgusting. It's a fundamental American right and until we start there, no one from 'the right' is going to have a conversation with you.

This is not a guns right case, this is a Muslim / terrorist issue.

It was his innate Muslim-ness that let him kill 50 people in one setting?

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

We know why people commit mass shootings, it's mental illness.

Nope. This is based on nothing but assumptions. There's no need to throw millions of Americans under the bus for their mental state because you think it takes someone being ill to do this to others. All it takes is hate.

 

[MihowZa]

Okay, if it's not a hobby, what well regulated Militia are you signed up to?

I've already stated if I own a gun or not and how many guns I've seen in my life, read the thread.

 

[thenight11]

WFTV Eyewitness News ‏@WFTV 33s34 seconds ago
Orlando Police Chief says 11 officers exchanged gunfire with the gunman, ultimately killing him. #PulseShooting

 

[_Ryo_]

My condolences to all the victims family and friends. This is such a tragedy, and one that could have probably been avoided if certain factions would allow even just a bit of compromise. And to attack someone because of their sexual orientation... its just awful and inexcusable no matter which way you look at it.

I wish a quick recovery for the surviving victims. May they speak out ablut the dangers of hatred and spread a message of love and work together with everyone to decrease the risks of such tragedies happening again in the future.

 

[2MF]

And here we go:

 

[Lead]

Do you read the posts you answer to or do you miss the point on purpose ?

No but your post didn't warrant a serious answer, I figured you'd catch on to that.

 

[smokeandmirrors]

I'm not offended. You don't get to drive the narrative like that. I just think it's disgusting to dismiss a right as a mere hobby and I think a lot of people born in America forget what makes the US great and enticing to the rest of the world.

you're the one driving the narrative, not me. You called it disgusting to dismiss it as a hobby. idk seems like you're pretty offended by that...

 

[diaspora]

I don't know why people keep bringing up mental illness. Maybe we can do something about preventing people with mental illnesses and being on terror watch lists from acquiring weapons?

 

[cyberheater]

Yah, go for that one, the one statement that the vast majority do not support. I doubt you'll find a handful of senators or representatives that think there should be a ban on all guns.

Well it doesn't matter because America won't change a god damn thing about its gun laws and shit like this will continue to happen.

 

[SparkleMotion]

It was his innate Muslim-ness that let him kill 50 people in one setting?

Obviously. By his argument, if guns were regulated better, he would have just killed 50 people with a knife.

 

[Hale-XF11]

RIP to the victims.

America is a sick country in desperate need of healing.

 

[knkng]

We know why people commit mass shootings, it's mental illness.

I wasn't aware that believing religious ideologies was now classified as mental illness.

 

[Already Torn]

Well it doesn't matter because America won't change a god damn thing about its gun laws and shit like this will continue to happen.

Vote in November!

 

[Blader]

I would have people begin a discussion on why people are willing to kill other people.

Short circuit the logic to how something happened, while not focusing on the why this is happening, is avoiding the issue.

When someone breaks up with someone, we focus on the why not the how. When someone dies in the hospital, we don't focus on how they died (respitory failure) we focus on why (respitory failure due to pulmonary embolism etc). When a person kills someone, we should focus on WHY they killed, not what tool was used.

We solve nothing to avoid the real issue of why people kill.

Gun, knife, gasoline, pressure cooker, homemade bomb, beatings etc. There are a 1000 ways how, but it is easier for people to avoid and discuss the why.

Because the discussion about the "why" -- the psychological roots of violence, or any individual shooter's reasoning -- is not an actionable strategy. Talking about why do people hurt other people doesn't amount to anything. It doesn't because it can't. You can't stop someone from wanting to hurt or kill another person, you can't snuff out those thoughts and feelings in another person's brain. All you can do is limit the tools and means with whic someone can act on those impulses.

Guns are easier to acquire and use than homemade bombs, and do more damage with less immediate retaliatory risk than knives or beatings, where the perpetrator is much closer to the victim. Guns are the perfect middle ground option of all the tools you listed, and are exactly why they've contributed to so many more deaths, more times, in this country than those other means.

 

[trembli0s]

Hell it doesn't have to be amended, that is what always gets me about this discussion. The 2nd Amendment does not give you an absolute right to keep and bear arms, we have seen this in various cases and situations.

That's absolutely true. So get the laws passed. Don't complain when you can't change the laws because you pack the political wherewithal to do it.

Elect new congressmen. Pass the laws in your state. The left couldn't pass gun legislation even with a favorable Congress or President. It's never happening.

 

[smokeandmirrors]

I don't know why people keep bringing up mental illness. Maybe we can do something about preventing people with mental illnesses and being on terror watch lists from acquiring weapons?

people don't give a fuck about mental illness. it's just a common deflection tactic away from the real issue of guns.

 

[Lead]

Why do you keep bringing up explosives and deflecting the issues?

Not seeing what I'm deflecting? I've already said it's easier to commit mass murder with firearms. What more do you want me to say?

All I'm saying is, this pipedream that we can rid the world of horrific events is just that, a dream.

Humans are vile and they'll find a way to kill you if they want it bad enough, be it with guns, explosives or whatever else.

 

[d1rtn4p]

And here we go:

Wow. Finally Trump got a good point.

 

[mugurumakensei]

Withdrawing from Iraq lead to creation of ISIS - creation of such organization is only possible in vacuum where government doesn't control situation in their own country.

Although you are correct - keeping strong dictatorship Saddam had would also prevent creation of ISIS - no need to care about all those brown people he was killing in his own country.

Actually, ISIS formed out of the ashes of Al Qaeda in Iraq plus a jihad group in Syria. Al Qaeda in Iraq formed during the US invasion of Iraq. We called them insurgents. So, ISIS formed because of the US invasion of Iraq. Because of the merger of multiple Jihadi groups, they set their sites on turning Syria and Iraq into an Islamic state with their now larger and combined forces.