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Mass shooting at Orlando gay nightclub [50 dead, 53 injured]

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Yeah, we like to pretend that the US is the country with the most gun related deaths.

Come out west. I'm in South Dakota, the vast majority of people here cling to their guns like they're the most important thing in the world.

My dad has a concealed carry permit and he treats his pistol like its his own personal worry stone. I'm pretty sure he'd have withdrawals if he was separated from it (it's disgusting).

So? That's his (their) thing. I don't care. I cling to my weight training. If I go more than a day or two w/o it I start to feel irritable, sleep less, etc. Everyone has something.

To the people talking about the weird white supremacy cults and freedom militias or what have you, we're on the same page. Those people are insane. They are also amazing outliers.
 
To be fair, I talked to some guys from Kentucky one time who could only make it in the winter from shooting deer. They were responsible and I don't want to take their guns.

Banning all guns is radical and quite frankly won't work in America. Not from a "the gubmit can pry mah guns from mah cold dedd fingers", but because you literally can NOT live in rural America without at least a shotgun or rifle. Snakes, boars, other things - you want to have a gun around.

Assault weapons like the shooter used in Orlando should be banned, though. There's no reason to own them except killing people.

This issue to me does not seem very hard. There's an obviously sensible line which can be drawn that nobody wants to draw. To me, hunting rifles, shotguns, handguns for self defense - should be allowed (by constitution or otherwise) after extensive background checks, training, and licensing - licensing which has to be renewed and can be revoked at any time if you are on any terror watch list. Guns like machine guns, automatic assault weapons, etc that are designed for military use or just killing human beings should be outlawed.

The problem with this is that handguns are used in the vast majority of shootings. Handguns are designed solely for killing human beings. You don't need a concealable, compact weapon to shoot an animal.
 
Forget celebrities, 2016 is really the year of death. This is such shit.

I'm genuinely curious why this even matters. Whether he was given a direct order from ISIS or just did it in the name of ISIS, it's all the same in the end. He committed a terrorist act for ISIS.

A terrorist act committed by ISIS brass would be a -huge- deal. Not that this isn't a significant event, but if ISIS orchestrated this attack? There would be a lot, lot more to talk about.
 
I dunno, seems like theres plenty of discussion about Islamic extremists lately.

It's an uncomfortable position and maybe it should be. Yet I can't help but think that few public figures on the left engage the ideological causes. It doesn't surprise me since they don't want to be aligned with the worst of the rightare. They are actually talking about it though in the context of ignoring their own religious based extremists. None of this is easy. There are of course political reasons mixed in, but this not-real Muslims stuff you see people say make me feel like we are living in upsidedown land.
 
I would but you deleted it.

But we all know why you're running away. Another gunnut cracks attempting to explain their deadly hobby.
The post before that, where I mentioned hunting and shooting for recreation.

The one you interpreted as me saying I hunt for recreation.

Read it again, if you come to the same conclusion don't even bother replying ok?

I'll give you one last chance, if we're good I'd gladly explain, if not then that's absolutely okay with me as well.
 
The problem with this is that handguns are used in the vast majority of shootings. Handguns are designed solely for killing human beings. You don't need a concealable, compact weapon to shoot an animal.

Lynyrd Skynyrd said it decades ago.

"handguns are made for killing, ain't no good for nothin else"
 
Because people make pretend that the US is a gun culture, full of guns everyone we look, full of gun violence everywhere we look. None of it is true.

Thousands of Americans die from gun violence every year. What in the hell are you talking about?
 
I'm genuinely curious why this even matters. Whether he was given a direct order from ISIS or just did it in the name of ISIS, it's all the same in the end. He committed a terrorist act for ISIS.

It matters to the warmongers like Trump who will use this to bolster his ratings.
 
I'm genuinely curious why this even matters. Whether he was given a direct order from ISIS or just did it in the name of ISIS, it's all the same in the end. He committed a terrorist act for ISIS.

a homophobe shot up a gay nightclub what is even your point?
 
But his personal experience proves otherwise, ergo statistics are wrong.

No one I know who has unprotected sex has ever had a child, therefore it doesn't happen.

Sound logic there.

That's ... yea throw child sex around.

You two are confounding my words with what you think I'm saying. Gun violence and violence in general is tucked away from the majority of Americans. We are all incredibly safe. We are safer every year than the year before.
 
Yea but the problem this time is the mods of /r/news are Muslim and filtering deleting references to isis and the shooter's religion.

Consider me in "I need to see the receipts" mode on this one. But do it in PMs or make a new thread (preferred) since it's so far afield of what this thread is about.
 
I'm genuinely curious why this even matters. Whether he was given a direct order from ISIS or just did it in the name of ISIS, it's all the same in the end. He committed a terrorist act for ISIS.

Because if he was working with Isis that would mean they are coordinating with agents in the us. That would mean more attacks can be coming and maybe we can find out when if we find out more about mateen. If it's a lone wolf fanboy there is not much we can do about that.
 
I'm not offended. You don't get to drive the narrative like that. I just think it's disgusting to dismiss a right as a mere hobby and I think a lot of people born in America forget what makes the US great and enticing to the rest of the world.


I'm okay with Americans and the gun laws and I love the country it's great but believe me guns is like almost non existent for the rest of us (internationals) on why we like to visit /work in America . Most internationals think it's kinda stupid but were like meh your country atleast you guys are doing all this other stuff well so we don't think abou it .
 
I feel sick from this news. So many lives lost and all because they love someone of the same gender? This world can be such a cruel and disgusting place.

My thoughts are with all the families and victims of this disgusting attack. Also my heart goes out to the LBGT community.
 
I'm genuinely curious why this even matters. Whether he was given a direct order from ISIS or just did it in the name of ISIS, it's all the same in the end. He committed a terrorist act for ISIS.

Because if it is an order from isis it indicates a similar strategy to Bangladesh and that we'll probably see more of these attacks in the near future.
 
Quite the opposite, actually. And it wasn't derailing, I misread you given your earlier comments about Obama and "RIT" as you put it. I was asking questions to understand where you were coming from and compared to others, treating you civilally. So I don't understand why you're treating me hostility now.
No hostility, I apologize if it came out like that. I couldn't figure out what your angle was. It was a misread.

I like Obama just fine and I think he's done a good job with a lot of things. I just don't like this administration's handling of these issues concerning RIT. And no, I don't support Trump if that's what you're thinking.
 
"experience doesn't matter"

Great. I stand by my statement and find it absurdist how out of touch some people are (which is ironic as the majority here feel the same towards me).
You've said it yourself.
You're out of touch with reality if you can't see that America has cultivated a massive gun culture for literally centuries. The fact that you didn't personally see a gun in the last years won't change that.
 
Because people make pretend that the US is a gun culture, full of guns everyone we look, full of gun violence everywhere we look. None of it is true.

Really? So the country that won't even allow the CDC to research gun violence because it might restrict the rights of gun ownership down the road isn't a gun culture?
 
Are some of you people serious? Do you not see how much gun violence occurs each year in this country!? How mass shootings are quickly becoming just another passing event? Jesus fuck. We are truly past the point of looking the other way now.

The fact that people still cling to their fucking guns DESPITE THIS SHIT, IS PROOF THAT THERE IS A TOXIC GUN CULTURE.

It shouldn't be as fucking easy as buying a can of fucking coke. But it is.
 
I'm genuinely curious why this even matters. Whether he was given a direct order from ISIS or just did it in the name of ISIS, it's all the same in the end. He committed a terrorist act for ISIS.
If he wasn't officially ordered by ISIS, it becomes more likely that he did it out of hate and made the ISIS call to get more attention. Especially since we don't have evidence of a religious background.
 
So? That's his (their) thing. I don't care. I cling to my weight training. If I go more than a day or two w/o it I start to feel irritable, sleep less, etc. Everyone has something.

To the people talking about the weird white supremacy cults and freedom militias or what have you, we're on the same page. Those people are insane. They are also amazing outliers.

The point is that these people support (and vote) for people who are opposed to any type of gun legislation. Here's a quick test. Look at these two guns. Can you tell me which one is legal for citizens to own and which one isn't? One is a semi-automatic, the other is capable of 3-round burst mode (where 3 bullets are fired in rapid succession).

AR15_A3_Tactical_Carbine_pic1.jpg


Keep in mind, when in semi-auto mode, they're the same weapon. They have the same rate of fire and fire the same rounds.

I'm not opposed to owning a gun. I grew up around them, I'm in the military where shooting a gun is part of the job description.

My point is that we need sensible gun control. There's no reason why it shouldn't be easier to buy a gun then to buy a car.
 
A mass shooting is defined as an incident in which 4 or more people are injured and/or killed, not including the shooter. By that definition they are extremely common in the US.

I'm aware of the statistics. Relative to incidences of gun violence in general, and considering how many people and guns there are in the United States, they are not that common. If we got rid of all mass shootings overnight it would not put a significant dent in the general frequency of injury or death due to gun violence.
 
a homophobe shot up a gay nightclub what is even your point?

I'm sorry, what? My point was questioning the relevancy of his direct connection to ISIS in regards to the attack.

Because if he was working with Isis that would mean they are coordinating with agents in the us. That would mean more attacks can be coming and maybe we can find out when if we find out more about mateen. If it's a lone wolf fanboy there is not much we can do about that.

Because if it is an order from isis it indicates a similar strategy to Bangladesh and that we'll probably see more of these attacks in the near future.

This actually makes a lot of sense, thank you. I hadn't considered it from an intelligence perspective.
*Edited in both quotes.
 
Reddit is quick becoming a home for the alt-right and various hate groups. It wouldn't surprise me.

Actually it's the opposite in this case.

If it was alt right central, there would be tons of threads of this with tons of speculation. Basic vetted sources are getting deleted.
 
Thousands of Americans die from gun violence every year. What in the hell are you talking about?

http://www.cdc.gov/dhdsp/data_statistics/fact_sheets/fs_heart_disease.htm

"Diabetes
Overweight and obesity
Poor diet
Physical inactivity
Excessive alcohol use"

and literally hundreds of thousands die because: bad diet, lack of exercise.

100%, completely avoidable deaths. Hundreds of thousands A YEAR.

But yea, lets stop 60,000 deaths instead of 6 million in the coming decade, let's focus on that because ??? my feelings and I like Doritos? I don't know.
 
This is the first time I am hearing of a former American resident (not sure if he was a citizen or not) going to Syria, radicalizing, returning to the States, spreading his message, and then returning to ISIS. Had done so without tripping any of the NSAs wires until he went back to Syria the final time.

Apparently Mateen was in contact with this guy and was interviewed twice by the government (once in 2013, once in 2014).
 
Really? So the country that won't even allow the CDC to research gun violence because it might restrict the rights of gun ownership down the road isn't a gun culture?

For many parts of America, the only thing you can identify as culture is guns and god. If America doesn't have a gun culture then I don't even know what the term culture evens means.
 
http://www.cdc.gov/dhdsp/data_statistics/fact_sheets/fs_heart_disease.htm

"Diabetes
Overweight and obesity
Poor diet
Physical inactivity
Excessive alcohol use"

and literally hundreds of thousands die because: bad diet, lack of exercise.

100%, completely avoidable deaths. Hundreds of thousands A YEAR.

But yea, lets stop 60,000 deaths instead of 6 million in the coming decade, let's focus on that because ??? my feelings and I like Doritos? I don't know.
Yeah, let's put a law in place to regulate heart attacks too.

People choose to eat bad food knowing how bad it is because they like eating bad food. Nobody chooses to get shot.

Super gross.
 
Posted earlier

As an ex-Muslim who loves America and my Muslim family, my heart is hurting beyond expression.

Today we witnessed the worst mass shooting in American history: 50 tragically killed in an ‪#‎Orlando‬ gay bar. The authorities announced the details just a few minutes ago: it was Omar Mir Seddique Mateen, a devout American-born Muslim who had pledged his allegiance to ISIL. (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...-pulse-orland/)

Mateen's father has said the shooting had "nothing to do with religion," and that his son may have committed this crime because he saw "two men kissing in Downtown Miami a couple months ago." But no one goes on a killing rampage for seeing two men kiss. Clearly there's more to this than his father doesn't see. I do not blame him, though. His son has just died, and he's not in a state to think clearly. We ought to be praying for him.

None of us can think entirely objectively, especially at the heels of a terrorist attack charged with so many political controversies. The rhetoric and agendas are flying, even though the dust has not yet settled. Gun control? Homophobia? Islamophobia?

As we are clouded by agendas and struggling to react, two opposing positions are coming to the fore: "Islam is a religion of peace and Mateen's actions therefore have nothing to do with Islam," or "Islam is inherently violent therefore we must see all Muslims as latent threats."

As an American and a former Muslim, my heart is torn by these two poles of rhetoric. Those who take the first position are endangering my country by overlooking the very real cause of Jihad, which are the teachings and history of Islam. Those who take the latter position are endangering my Muslim family and friends, loving and patriotic Muslims that are as innocent and American as the rest of us.

The fact is, the vast majority of Muslims are loving, peaceful people who would never want to hurt any American or homosexual. I know this because I was deeply rooted in the Muslim community, and not a single Muslim out of the thousands I knew were violent or harbored violent tendencies. (The community I am referring to is in Norfolk, Virginia, with Sunnis, Shias, and others attending the same mosque. It was an open-armed and diverse Muslim community.)

Regardless, Islam itself has always taught that gays should be executed. Muhammad commanded: "If you find anyone doing as Lot’s people did, kill the one who does it, and the one to whom it is done." (Sunan Abu Daud 4447) Imams who have been trained in these Islamic teachings are teaching in our communities. Just three months ago, an imam who is well known for proclaiming Muhammad's teachings on homosexuality spoke in Orlando. In a prior speech about homosexuals he was noted to have said, "Let's get rid of them now." (video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBlwxqqAprQ;
news article: http://www.wftv.com/news/local/irani...ford/185803158) The imam spoke at an Islamic center that is less than 20 miles from the site of today's atrocities. Some American-born Muslims, such as Omar, are taking teachings like these at face value, listening to their imams and following Muhammad.

How can we understand this dilemma? How do we not react against all Muslims despite the fact that Islam has always taught such violence? My answer is simple: truth and love. This may sound trite or fanciful, but I am not advocating a whimsical or baseless love, which would never stand in the face of Jihad. I think we must respond with a love grounded in truth and self-sacrifice, reflecting the person and heart of Jesus Christ. We need to acknowledge the truth about Islam while holding that in tension with a respect and love for Muslims. (If you want more on this, I wrote a book on the topic after San Bernardino, ‪#‎AnsweringJihad‬: http://www.nabeelqureshi.com/answering-jihad).

Orlando marks the beginning of a new phase in our nation's history: The worst mass-shooting on American soil is now an Islamist terror attack. Our country has to respond, and it will respond. I pray that those of you who have taken the time to read this (thank you) will be a voice for responding with truth and love.

(Source)
Thanks for this And geez
 
That's ... yea throw child sex around.

You two are confounding my words with what you think I'm saying. Gun violence and violence in general is tucked away from the majority of Americans. We are all incredibly safe. We are safer every year than the year before.

Either you're trolling or English isn't your first language. They were not referring to "child sex".
 
I own a gun
I really like shooting it.
It's a lot of fun

I'd give it up in a heartbeat if it meant another one of these shootings never occurred again

Thank you. I'm not a licensed gun owner yet, but I feel the same way.

Like slavery at the time, the people are not capable of solving this problem. We aren't.

It would take a democrat dooming the party for decades to do the banning and limiting that needs to be done. Like a bolder current Obama.

The hate will take a longer time to stop. But the guns? That can be solved, but it will lead to a backlash the US has never seen.
 
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