His father was a fruit loop, great.
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Mass shooting at Orlando gay nightclub [50 dead, 53 injured]
- Thread starter dc89
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His father was a fruit loop, great.
"the discussion on Islamic extremism is one that needs to be had"
Is there a reason you're so fucking vague? What is the discussion you want?
And tell me, do you seriously believe for one moment that "discussion" will stop similar racist shootings from happening?
Did you notice the post he was responding to?
That poster literally implied all American Muslims are extremists.
Doug Heffernan
Member
edit, wrong thread
Well, the people who were wounded and killed were targeted as a result of twisted religious ideologies, so I would agree that it's more relevant to this situation than a blanket gun control debate.
Brolic Gaoler
formerly Alienshogun
That didn't stop Paris, it wouldn't have stopped Orlando. People will use any means to kill. Knives, explosives, guns.
And apparently ISIS just claimed responsibility.
Amibguous Cad
Member
They do. They screen all donations, in fact, but even the best test will occasionally give you a false negative. Preventing certain at risk groups from donating reduces the chance of accidental contamination that much more.
It does seem like you can get qualified immunity on this if it would be politically radioactive to do so - African Americans have a higher HIV infection rate but good luck convincing people banning them from donating isn't racist - but that doesn't mean it's not a good policy.
Yes, when I said "Abrahamic religion" I said so to be inclusive of Islam, Christianity and Judaism. I am not picking sides. However the coterie of crazy also hate each other.
That sounds dubious. With shootings, yeah, we're mostly talking about men. White people are 63% of the country, so white men should be around 63% of shootings if all things were equal. I'd like to see where you got the 98% from, and what definition of mass shooting it's using.
Anyway, my bigger point is that saying Group A commit most violence is meaningless. We should instead look at which groups are over-represented when compared to the population.
A Link to the Past
Banned
So to you, gun deaths must be 0 in order to justify gun control? No value to you in preventing the deaths of thousands of people, where 6000 deaths and 1000 deaths are essentially the same in your eyes?
The Orlando shooter bought his guns legally a few days before the massacre. Yes it would have fucking stopped him. Do you think he could have murdered 50 people with a knife? Do you think building illegal home explosives is easier than buying a gun?
Dr. Buni
Member
I live in Brazil, where you can't really buy a gun legally, yet it is one of the countries with most causalities and violence. I don't disagree that gun control can help, but it also might not.
Roughly it looks proportionate.
http://www.statista.com/statistics/476456/mass-shootings-in-the-us-by-shooter-s-race/
44% white, 11% black, 6% asian etc etc
and yet you don't seem to know shit about why gun violence is an issue in chicago.
let me help you: it's not all because chicago has strict laws, it's because other counties in the state, and other surrounding states, don't.
Guns are considerably easier to acquire than explosives, and can deal more damage in a quicker amount of time than knives.
Can we drop this "people will use any means to kill" line of shit already? There's a reason guns are so popular with mass murderers -- they're fucking easy to get and use. If you make it harder to get guns, you make it harder for these people to act on their sick impulses. It's that simple, and has been proven in the numbers in plenty of other countries.
There is no strict gun control in the US.
In other developed countries there is, and it has worked.
Poltergust
Member
How much of that is caused by people outside of gangs and organized crime?
I don't think there's any evidence supporting that statement. As I said it's not just a fear that blood will go through undetected (although that is a concern), it's that you'll have to destroy up to 20% of the samples from that population, which is expensive.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Given that a mass shooting occurs every day in the US, I find it highly questionable that statista uses the same definition of what a mass shooting is.
What, evidence that such a ban would not exist if the ban would be applied to hetero people? I mean, we have an entire history where double standards exist for the majority population. The ban wouldn't exist because there would be protesting nationwide by hetero people.
Strict gun control in Chicago is useless because you drive to the next state or country over and bring back as many guns as you like. That's why gun control on a city-by-city basis is not an effective approach.
Right, it says men are 98%, not white men. Elliot Rodger wasn't white btw, his mother is Malaysian. Why it's not 98% men and not 50/50 men and women is probably too big for this topic.
Watched a couple of hours coverage on CNN this morning.
I'm obviously sad when I hear of mass shootings but this morning I was a bit sick to my stomach literally.
I watched President Obama's press conference. He seemed resigned, going through basically the same speech he made too many times before; but he also seemed pissed off inside, like "What, this shit AGAIN?".
I believe sadly that nothing will change in my lifetime.
In 2012 at Sandy Hook children got shot point blank in the face and nothing changed. That's when I gave up on this issue.
I'm obviously sad when I hear of mass shootings but this morning I was a bit sick to my stomach literally.
I watched President Obama's press conference. He seemed resigned, going through basically the same speech he made too many times before; but he also seemed pissed off inside, like "What, this shit AGAIN?".
I believe sadly that nothing will change in my lifetime.
In 2012 at Sandy Hook children got shot point blank in the face and nothing changed. That's when I gave up on this issue.
Poltergust
Member
You are assuming that people who know that they're infected would donate blood. It won't be anywhere close to 20% of the samples.
Heck, if people are considerate enough to go to a blood bank, they most likely are responsible enough to know that they are clean by getting tested.
It's a nonsense law that doesn't reflect reality.
bootsthecat
Banned
A Link to the Past
Banned
The point is, no matter the reason why, it still stands to reason that we do not create laws to address the fact that men are more dangerous with a firearm than women. We don't have stricter background checks for men.
Guns are a problem, agreed
don't you also agree that homophobia in Islamic scripture is also a problem?
They both don't have to be mutually exclusive to each other
A Link to the Past
Banned
Given that I misremembered the statistic, I won't debate this. Ultimately it comes down to a double standard of when we want to apply limitations and for whom.
I guess a question is, when an LGBT person is murdered, what kind of person is most likely to have murdered them in the US?
This is a serious question, not a gotcha (I don't actually know the answer).
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
Welp.
There's homophobia in Christian and Judaic scripture as well
Not sure if this has been posted since this thread moves so fast, but Obama's townhall just a week ago is even more prescient now http://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattve...t-going-to-take-your-guns-believe-me-n2173160
That is a really weird way to present data. Using stats from different years and different sources. You'd think the ncb would be able to give an estimate at least from the same year.
And how many Christians or Jews take that seriously today?
Compare with how many Muslims all over the world support the concept of homosexuality being immoral or illegal (there were polls about this which show a vast majority of people in middle eastern countries think so).
Sure, but I don't have the ability to influence Islamic scripture. Neither do my politicians.
You know what they do have the ability to do? Stop fuckers like this guy from buying a gun.
You know what they refuse to do? Stop fuckers like this guy from buying a gun.
A Link to the Past
Banned
That's a good question. How many Muslims in the US take it seriously to the point of committing violence? Is it that much more, if more at all, than people in Jewish or Christian faiths?
This is so ridiculous. That Trump for even a second thought to call Obama out when just recently he called out the NRA for preventing him from reducing the ability for terrorists to obtain guns.
skullmuffins
Banned
A ban on hetero people donating would be infeasible on it's face, seeing as how straight folk make up the majority of the population; it would be impossible for them to get enough donations if they were excluded, and people would probably die as a result. MSM are both a relatively small and yet proportionally high-risk group. I don't think there is anti-gay discrimination at the heart of the ban. It's probably just a statistical and financial calculation where they've decided it's worthwhile to exclude this group - small number excluded, avoid problems like contaminated blood getting through the screening before it's detectable, and less risk of having to toss out good samples.
Square2015
Member
It doesn't outright condone killing gays, as these imams in Florida continue to.
NullPointer
Member
So sad and infuriating to see another attack against innocents celebrating live and love by a well armed coward following a demented motive. This man doesn't deserve to have a name.
My heart goes out to all the victims.
We should recognize the facts and similarities and motives behind these attacks rationally and clearly without shying away, but public voices, especially in leadership positions have a responsibility to be even more careful not to stoke the fires that will just lead to more innocents being put in danger.
Trump doesn't understand that or doesn't care or he knows full well and is using divisive appeals to power his candidacy, and his brand of rhetoric is the very last thing this country needs right now.
My heart goes out to all the victims.
All Americans my ass. Everyone my ass.Donald Trump said:
We should recognize the facts and similarities and motives behind these attacks rationally and clearly without shying away, but public voices, especially in leadership positions have a responsibility to be even more careful not to stoke the fires that will just lead to more innocents being put in danger.
Trump doesn't understand that or doesn't care or he knows full well and is using divisive appeals to power his candidacy, and his brand of rhetoric is the very last thing this country needs right now.
A Link to the Past
Banned
So it's discrimination with excuse and opportunity
If I recall, there was another poll that suggested that white Evangelical Christians supported LGBT people less than Muslims in the US
Poltergust
Member
If gay people were allowed to donate, it would statistically save about a million lives per year.
And yes, discrimination is at the heart of the ban. It was made in the 80s during the AIDS scare. You simply cannot deny the connection there; gay people were almost universally despised during that time.
EdibleKnife
Member
Leviticus 20:13
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
Has Mohamed only killed warriors? I'm genuinely curious.
I'm not religious, so my fecal matter is offtopic here
Interesting... any links?
edit - just found this: http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...-groups-grow-more-accepting-of-homosexuality/
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