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[DavidDesu]

Point of my post isn't about total events, just about the worst single event of each type

Gun laws account for thousands of deaths a year that makes 9/11 look like nothing. Deaths that are largely preventable. Other countries clamped down on guns when awful things happened, and guess what, a lot LOT less awful things happened afterwards. In the US the thinking seems to be; give people MORE guns to stop more gun terror. Result: You know the result.

 

[orochi91]

Point of my post isn't about total events, just about the worst single event of each type

That's an interesting metric.

Wanna address my post?

~6000 have died so far in 2016 from gun related deaths.

What's common denominator there?

Stop beating around the bush like some closet bigot and just say what you want outright.

 

[Diffense]

Tell me what religious ideology killed people at Virginia Tech.

Or Sandy Hook.

Or Auraria.

"here" "here" "here" "here" "here" "here" "here" "here" "here" "here""here" "here" "here" "here" "here""here" "here" "here" "here" "here""here" "here" "here" "here" "here""here" "here" "here" "here" "here""here" "here" "here" "here" "here""here" "here" "here" "here" "here""here" "here" "here" "here" "here""here" "here" "here" "here" "here""here" "here" "here" "here" "here""here" "here" "here" "here" "here""here" "here" "here" "here" "here""here" "here" "here" "here" "here"

the core issue here

BTW, powerful guns make it easy to kill many people quickly but their mere existence does not motivate anything.

 

[Valhelm]

You are statistically significantly much more likely to have AIDS/HIV. Combine that with the odds of general supply accident and frankly your blood is not worth it. It has nothing to do with discrimination, it has everything to do with qualified best practices to insuring the safety of the blood supply.

It's discrimination by definition. If HIV transmission is such a concern, why not screen daily collections from at-risk groups?

 

[knkng]

I'll admit I'm not familiar, are there many folks on TSA no-fly lists that have only been 'investigated' with no subsequent charges filed?

Yes, as far as I know it is primarily made up of people under suspicion of terrorist activities, but with no actual charges placed. It has also fallen under a fair amount of scrutiny, however I believe it to be an overall positive program (despite causing some issues for some innocent travelers).

The wiki page can probably tell you a lot more than I ever could:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Fly_List

 

[A Link to the Past]

I would love an outright ban of all fire arms in the United States.

There is no need for such weapons.

The argument for them is always "we need to protect ourselves!" without considering that the gun culture created something they need to be protected from. It's basically like that story where a home owner gets a cat to get rid of a mouse, a dog to get rid of the cat, etc. etc. until he ends up with an elephant - which he gets rid of using a mouse.

 

[Silent Chief]

If I remember correctly, Florida is one of those states in which they don't even check ID when you buy a gun and lots of Canadians buy them there to smuggle across the border and resale here for huge profits.

It's also full of segregated walled in community otherwise the tourist industry would have taken a huge drop by now.

 

[DavidDesu]

No they wouldn't, as it's not what their constituents want.

People didn't want the government forcing them, by law, to wear seatbelts. FREEDOM and all that... guess what, it's saved countless lives now.

Truly good government comes from doing the hard things, going against the grain to do what's RIGHT. Making good arguments and turning people around to see your thinking and the benefits of it.

 

[Toxi]

"here" "here" "here" "here" "here" "here" "here" "here" "here" "here""here" "here" "here" "here" "here""here" "here" "here" "here" "here""here" "here" "here" "here" "here""here" "here" "here" "here" "here""here" "here" "here" "here" "here""here" "here" "here" "here" "here""here" "here" "here" "here" "here""here" "here" "here" "here" "here""here" "here" "here" "here" "here""here" "here" "here" "here" "here""here" "here" "here" "here" "here""here" "here" "here" "here" "here"

Fuck that. This is not some unique event. This shit has been going on in my country for far too long because every time one of these mass shootings happens, you have deflection away from what allows these assholes to murder people.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

If I remember correctly, Florida is one of those states in which they don't even check ID when you buy a gun

No, FL requires a background check and a 3-day wait. The only time you don't have to wait is if you already have a CCW permit.

 

[Imperial Bishop]

That, and countless other shit stains more worried about preserving his "right" to own a gun than what he did with it.

And they're the worst of the worst. Anyone who believes it's perfectly fine for someone with mental issues and/or intent to harm others to own a firearm is insane.

 

[devilhawk]

~6000 have died so far in 2016 from gun related deaths.

What's common denominator there?

Stop beating around the bush like some closet bigot and just say what you want outright.

That Islamic extremism is a major fucking issue. That the regressive left has blood on its hands for this for constantly silencing discussion on islamic extremism in America. Now Islamic extremists are targeting specific groups here in America. Yet, we will again act like it was just any other person following no specific ideology. The radical ideology was the driver, it was the impetus.

 

[Sai-kun]

Because we all know how great Gun control has been for Detroit and Chicago.

if you don't know shit about chicago, you probably shouldn't say a fucking word about it

thanks in advance

 

[Valhelm]

I would love an outright ban of all fire arms in the United States.

There is no need for such weapons.

Problem is that, as long as police and the military have access to those weapons, the citizens loose some bargaining power. This is especially dangerous for groups targeted by the state, such as black people.

 

[Henkka]

What happens when you ask who commits the majority of mass shootings

Who would you say that is

Is the answer white people

Would that be

Because

White people are the majority of the population in the US? So statistically, you'd expect them to commit majority of the violence, too.

 

[entremet]

It's discrimination by definition. If HIV transmission is such a concern, why not screen daily collections from at-risk groups?

Simple. Resources.

Part of the restrictions is to alleviate overhead as well. Blood is highly perishable and you are still reliant on donors for renewed stock.

 

[Late Flag]

All of the Abraham religions have proven themselves to be a boil on the ass of humanity. Alongside some of the worst atrocities in human history (slavery, colonialism, anti-semitism), you can find them there condoning the acts. If there's a demon or a devil, billions unwittingly serve him.

After I left organized religion, I still considered that everyone had the right to believe what they want. The problem is that, at their core, Abrahamic religions are thinly veiled political statements that dwell on issues of dominion and rulership OF THE WHOLE EARTH (heck Universe). Thefore adherents often have an annoying and dangerous tendency to seek to make THEIR beliefs YOUR business.

While this is not the central appeal to all adherents, it does represent the core of those religions and ignoring those aspects essentially neuter them. That's why the "radical" and "fundamentalist" elements can rightly chastise the "moderates". The moderates have to ignore a whole lot of their religion so as to not look batshit insane in a modern secular society.

Zyklon B was deadly, but it was Nazism that put it to use as a tool for genocide. I'm no big fan of guns but the ideology was the core issue here.

Are you aware that Judaism is an Abrahamic religion? I'm not sure how to read this post, since you seem to be critical of anti-semitism.

 

[DireStr8s]

Australia says hi

You believe Australia is absolutely impervious to an AR-15 attack in a nightclub due to it's gun laws?

 

[Poltergust]

You are statistically significantly much more likely to have AIDS/HIV. Combine that with the odds of general supply accident and frankly your blood is not worth it. It has nothing to do with discrimination, it has everything to do with qualified best practices to insuring the safety of the blood supply.

Yes, it has everything to do with discrimination.

If I can provide the documentation of being STD-free (which I can), why is there an arbitrary law that can stop me from donating blood on the basis of my sexual orientation?

Do you know the origin of such laws? It had to do with the AIDS scare of the 80s. You know, that thing that basically made everyone in America hate gay people. Hell, before last year, gay people were barred from donating at all, regardless of sexual history.

This law has no place in modern society.

 

[Toxi]

That Islamic extremism is a major fucking issue. That the regressive left has blood on its hands for this for constantly silencing discussion on islamic extremism in America. Now Islamic extremists are targeting specific groups here in America. Yet, we will again act like it was just any other person following no specific ideology. The radical ideology was the driver, it was the impetus.

Do you seriously fucking think "a discussion on Islamic extremism in America" would have stopped this man from buying a gun, going to a nightclub, and murdering 50 people?

Racism is a highly-discussed issue. Did that stop the Charleston Church shooting from happening? No. Because you can't actually eradicate that sort of regressive thought. All you can do is control the means such people have of hurting people.

And if you think that the "regressive left" led to this, when we had a bill that would prevent the legal sale of guns to this person blocked by the GOP in Congress, you're fucking ignorant.

 

[Sirpopopop]

That Islamic extremism is a major fucking issue. That the regressive left has blood on its hands for this for constantly silencing discussion on islamic extremism in America. Now Islamic extremists are targeting specific groups here in America. Yet, we will again act like it was just any other person following no specific ideology. The radical ideology was the driver, it was the impetus.

It's simple;

You don't ban all Christians from having guns because of Sandy Hook.

You don't ban Atheists from having guns because of Oklahoma, and maybe Virginia Tech.

Why should we ban Muslims from having guns?

 

[A Link to the Past]

Would that be

Because

White people are the majority of the population in the US? So statistically, you'd expect them to commit majority of the violence, too.

White men aren't, yet they are somewhere around 98% of mass shootings if the figure I recall is correct.

 

[ChaosZeroX]

Orlando Native here. Crazy ass shit .

Its insane how the community has come together here.

 

[SparkleMotion]

It's simple;

You don't ban all Christians from having guns because of Sandy Hook.

You don't ban Atheists from having guns because of Oklahoma, and maybe Virginia Tech.

Why should we ban Muslims from having guns?

The correct answer is to ban everyone from having guns.

 

[Soyongdori]

The correct answer is to ban everyone from having guns.

Too bad that's not gonna happen any time soon.

 

[devilhawk]

Do you seriously fucking think "a discussion on Islamic extremism in America" would have stopped this man from buying a gun, going to a nightclub, and murdering 50 people?

Just like closing the gun show loophole is something that needs to be done but won't statistically amount to anything, the discussion on the problem that is islamic extremism is one that needs to be had. It would be a start.

 

[beast786]

Wow

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-even-tried-to-run-for-the-afghan-presidency/

"expresses gratitude toward the Afghan Taliban, while denouncing the Pakistani government.

“Our brothers in Waziristan, our warrior brothers in [the] Taliban movement and national Afghan Taliban are rising up,” he said. “Inshallah the Durand Line issue will be solved soon.”"

 

[Valhelm]

It's simple;

You don't ban all Christians from having guns because of Sandy Hook.

You don't ban Atheists from having guns because of Oklahoma, and maybe Virginia Tech.

Why should we ban Muslims from having guns?

Can't we acknowledge the danger of Sunni radicalism without discriminating against Muslims?

 

[SparkleMotion]

Too bad that's not gonna happen any time soon.

I know, and it makes me sad. I'd never argue for it to happen cause I know it's not feasible, but stronger background checks would be SOMETHING.

 

[Bruce Springsteen]

Wow

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-even-tried-to-run-for-the-afghan-presidency/

what in the fuck, pretending to be Afghan President

 

[Joey Fox]

That Islamic extremism is a major fucking issue. That the regressive left has blood on its hands for this for constantly silencing discussion on islamic extremism in America. Now Islamic extremists are targeting specific groups here in America. Yet, we will again act like it was just any other person following no specific ideology. The radical ideology was the driver, it was the impetus.

The root cause of this attack, radical Islam, should be the main topic of discussion, or at least a main topic of discussion, with real solutions identified.

This hate speech took place in Florida:
https://youtu.be/qBlwxqqAprQ

We need to keep our people safe.

 

[orochi91]

That Islamic extremism is a major fucking issue. That the regressive left has blood on its hands for this for constantly silencing discussion on islamic extremism in America. Now Islamic extremists are targeting specific groups here in America. Yet, we will again act like it was just any other person following no specific ideology. The radical ideology was the driver, it was the impetus.

So let me get his straight:

~6000 people have died in the US due to gun related violence in 2016 so far, including the victims of this recent attack, yet instead of being critical of the freely available death machines, you're insinuating some sinister bullshit by linking the actions of a few radical extremists to 3.5 million Muslim Americans.

That's some stunning bullshit, and even you know it.

 

[2MF]

Wow

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-even-tried-to-run-for-the-afghan-presidency/

This is bizarre:

Just hours before the Orlando shooting, Seddique Mateen posted a video on a Facebook page called Provisional Government of Afghanistan — Seddique Mateen. In it, he seems to be pretending to be Afghanistan's president, and orders the arrest of an array of Afghan political figures.

Maybe he should have kept quiet in the aftermath of the attack, now his statements are going to come back to bite him.

 

[thenight11]

Dorey Scheimer ‏@DoreyScheimer 2m2 minutes ago New Stanton, PA
Per White House, Obama will not campaign with Hillary Clinton on Wednesday in Green Bay in light of Orlando attack #pulse #WFTV



Michael Rusch ‏@weeddude 2m2 minutes ago
.@realDonaldTrump statement https://www.donaldjtrump.com/press-...-statement-regarding-tragic-terrorist-attacks …

 

[Polari]

It's discrimination by definition. If HIV transmission is such a concern, why not screen daily collections from at-risk groups?

I assume they screen all blood as a matter of course. In Florida 18% of gay/bisexual men have HIV (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/19/health/hiv-rates-for-gay-men-are-higher-in-south-study-finds.html), which does make collecting blood from these populations inherently risky, and leads to waste and expense because you're probably going to have to destroy a whole lot of collected blood that tests positive.

 

[Sapientas]

This situation also brought another ugly thing to light: gay people are banned from donating blood if they had sex within a year. I know of the law, but I also heard that it was at least waived for today from several news sources this early afternoon.

Turns out that was false. I'm still barred from donating blood simply because I had sex with my boyfriend recently.

I'm really upset right now. I can't do anything to help because of who I am. The irony in this situation is disgusting.

This is absurd and it's incredible how a law stupid as that is still in effect.
Is that a federal law?

Edit: there is actually a reasoning behind this law that is not purely discrimination apparently, but still seems rather simplistic. Doing HIV (and other) tests on the blood samples is clearly more effective.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Can't we acknowledge the danger of Sunni radicalism without discriminating against Muslims?

Yeah

The issue becomes that we disproportionately talk about these dangers without giving an appropriate amount of acknowledgment towards other dangers, like white nationalism, Christian terrorism, most mass shootings, etc.

I assume they screen all blood as a matter of course. In Florida 18% of gay/bisexual men have HIV (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/19/health/hiv-rates-for-gay-men-are-higher-in-south-study-finds.html), which does make collecting blood from these populations inherently risky, and leads to waste and expense because you're probably going to have to destroy a whole lot of collected blood that tests positive.

Thing is though, you can't just argue that you discriminate because you fear your own incompetence. If HIV was an issue with hetero people more than LB men, such a thing would not exist because it would be very quickly be made illegal to discriminate against hetero men in this area. The reason it is still in issue is because LGBT people are voiceless and unable to enact this change on their own.

 

[Poltergust]

This is absurd and it's incredible how a law stupid as that is still in effect.
Is that a federal law?

It's a law by the FDA, so yes.

 

[SquashMatch]

if you don't know shit about chicago, you probably shouldn't say a fucking word about it

thanks in advance

I did and will continue to say words about it. Strict gun control there has not and will not lead to decreased gun violence.

 

[Bek Sloy]

The danger of radicalised people is known and discussed, and followed by the incompetent US government, yet attacks happen. That there are people (like myself) who don't want to blame Islam every time something bad happens involving a Muslim, doesn't mean I'm trying to prevent the subject being broached, I just don't jump to conclusions based on religion.

 

[Matt_]

Michael Rusch ‏@weeddude 2m2 minutes ago
.@realDonaldTrump statement https://www.donaldjtrump.com/press-...-statement-regarding-tragic-terrorist-attacks …

I can't fucking believe this
one fucking line talking about the attack and the rest is political bullshit
what a fucking abhorrent man. makes me feel sick

 

[knkng]

Wow

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-even-tried-to-run-for-the-afghan-presidency/

"expresses gratitude toward the Afghan Taliban, while denouncing the Pakistani government.

“Our brothers in Waziristan, our warrior brothers in [the] Taliban movement and national Afghan Taliban are rising up,” he said. “Inshallah the Durand Line issue will be solved soon.”"

Oh yeah, the shooter definitely didn't pick up any bad traits from his father... *rolleyes*

 

[Blader]

Just like closing the gun show loophole is something that needs to be done but won't statistically amount to anything, the discussion on the problem that is islamic extremism is one that needs to be had. It would be a start.

Have you been locked in a closet for the last 15 years? Responses to Islamic extremism have been driving American foreign policy ever since 9/11. A discussion needs to be had? Discussion about what?

Oh, "the regressive left", lol. Yeah, goddamn those libs for trying to keep bigots from lumping in millions of innocent law-abiding Muslim-Americas with a handful of terrorists. The blood here is truly on their hands.

 

[Vilix]

The root cause of this attack, radical Islam, should be the main topic of discussion, or at least a main topic of discussion, with real solutions identified.

I thought the people who were wounded or killed should be the main topic of discussion?

 

[Oriel]

I see it didn't take long for the first conspiracy theories to start emerging. There's even one rather bizarre "theory" that includes Christina Grimmie! Weird. Although strangely enough Alex Jones has gone full on Trumper by blaming the Muslims altogether (once upon a time Jones would have blamed the govt for this in a heartbeat). It suits him now to blame Muslims as he tries to get his newest BFF Trump into the WH. Sick.

 

[Goodstyle]

At the risk of sounding like a South Park episode, I feel like the left and right need to both move on the discussion of radical Islam. Neither side seems willing to move a god damn inch, and it's frustrating.

 

[devilhawk]

So let me get his straight:

~6000 people have died in the US due to gun related violence in 2016 so far, including the victims of this recent attack, yet instead of being critical of the freely available death machines, you're insinuating some sinister bullshit by linking the actions of a few radical extremists to 3.5 million Muslim Americans.

That's some stunning bullshit, and even you know it.

I've never been against new gun control legislation.

The motives behind the attacks are important and must be discussed. Just like they were on this forum for the racist attack on the church in South Carolina.

 

[MIMIC]

Anyone watching MSNBC? Awesome speeches and offerings of condolences, resolve, and solidarity (Human Rights Campaign)

 

[Poltergust]

I did and will continue to say words about it. Strict gun control there has not and will not lead to decreased gun violence.

Tell that to England, Australia, Japan, etc.

Gun control needs to be a nationwide change for it to be effective. The reason it doesn't work for Chicago is because people can just go to the next city over and buy a gun there. This has been documented and studied.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Fuck Trump, I despise him and his face. I'm now worried that he found the political opportunity he needs to turn the tides and win the White House. How ironic that he is going to use the shooting of LGBT people to propel a platform that will ruin the lives of LGBT people.

Just like closing the gun show loophole is something that needs to be done but won't statistically amount to anything, the discussion on the problem that is islamic extremism is one that needs to be had. It would be a start.

Who cares? A loophole implies something that shouldn't exist. A single live saved is adequate justification to close it.