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Mass shooting at Orlando gay nightclub [50 dead, 53 injured]
- Thread starter dc89
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timetokill
Banned
Slippery slope. One could easily make the argument that freedom of speech can promote an unhappy or unsafe society. You could argue that we'd be "safer" if the government could lock up everyone on the No Fly List just out of hand. Who makes that choice? What are we willing to give up for so-called security?
I'm not saying I have all the answers but this is a very complex philosophical, moral, and ethical question.
As far as caring about what it says, I would hope most people are very thankful for most of the amendments we have. I mean Due Process is pretty sweet, I gotta say.
LizardKing
Member
Sure, change the Constitution. Let's have the conversation about eliminating civil rights given in the BOR. But do it the correct way and legal way. Not pretending the right doesn't exist. Sorry if you can't see the danger in that and why it is much more than some old text.
Kill Your Masters
Member
And yet most of them don't go on killing sprees all while they are almost able to buy a gun like I buy milk in Europe.
Nonono. Fucking hell this is heartbreaking to read.
FUCK
The fact that he went all the way from Indiana to Santa Monica to shoot up LGBT folks is insane.
Prodigal Son
Member
Was reading the comments of a Jamaican news site and too many were terrifyingly supportive of the shooting. Wtf is everything.
AnathemicOne
Banned
It's fucking required to read for anyone defending gun rights
LizardKing
Member
Do you understand the implications of violating the fifth amendment's Clause of due process?
EdibleKnife
Member
And despite it being a yoke of slavery, it's still often cited by anti-gay evangelicals as scripture-ordered justification for homophobia. There are a few other scriptures even in the New Testament that speak to a condemnation of homosexual acts sans death (1 Corinth 6:9-10) and others that are used to speak to the fact that heterosexuality is the one true way humans can/should act (Matthew 19:3-6)
Yeah, I can totally see people supporting it here on Brazil too. I don't know, sometimes I just lose hope.
The worst part of all this (aside, obviously, from the terrible and senseless loss of life) is how politicized this is going to be in the upcoming election here... This is, yet again, another reminder of the consequences of widely available and easily obtained assault weapons... yet, somehow, I'm willing to bet the entire conversation is going to be focused on Islam, and fear mongering, feeding right into Trump's narrative. I fucking hate all this.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
One week
Dude could get an AR15 and a pistol in a single week.
But no, it's not our gun laws that are the issue.
This shit is too easy. Sorry, but it's just so fucking easy to get guns in America and go to some populated place and blow people away. This is going to happen and keep happening.
In terms of issues with the US, this is my most pessimistic outlook.
Dude could get an AR15 and a pistol in a single week.
But no, it's not our gun laws that are the issue.
This shit is too easy. Sorry, but it's just so fucking easy to get guns in America and go to some populated place and blow people away. This is going to happen and keep happening.
In terms of issues with the US, this is my most pessimistic outlook.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
hostage situation, they didn't go into the night club in Paris for dozens of minutes.
InfiniteBento
Member
It's real.
apparently, no one hiding in that bathroom survived.
Is there a source for that information?
LizardKing
Member
And this is what people don't get. You can't take away people's rights without due process. There is even a debate on whether being found guilty through due process is enough of a justification to take away people's rights such as for voting. There is no allowance in the Constitution to take away rights for any reason. We kind of just interpreted that people have been convicted lose those rights. Some of them anyway, it's pretty arbitrary.
Theanine3D
Member
Those phone transcripts are heartbreaking...
Was just going to say, I was hoping this tragedy would at least awaken some compassion in people who previously were not supportive of LGBT.
But I've realized some people... are sadly never going to change :\
Was just going to say, I was hoping this tragedy would at least awaken some compassion in people who previously were not supportive of LGBT.
But I've realized some people... are sadly never going to change :\
victreeb3l
Member
Poltergust
Member
The number is hypothetical, but there definitely will be a significant increase to the amount of blood available.
http://www.vox.com/2016/6/12/11911994/orlando-shooting-gay-blood-donation
That's really horrible.
When you talk about a lone wolf, do we know more ? Cause if European terrorism teached us something, it's that there is generally a link, some help from a bigger group, at some point, some communication by internet or something.. There was never really any lone wolf here.
If the legislation in USA facilitates lone wolfs, it's indeed part of the problem, but still. I feel like this, if ISIS is behind it, even vaguely, is different than usually in America. There IS a problem with weapon in america, sure, and unfortunatly there are many opportunities to talk about it, but this is about Isis and an international problem here.
Except if he's a mad man with zero connection with anyone. And even like that the ideology is still a problem. I mean i feel like this may (i can be wrong) be part of an other pattern. Not the "america's gun problem" pattern, but a more global one in this case. It seems a little weird that it's all what everyone talks about everywhere.
When you talk about a lone wolf, do we know more ? Cause if European terrorism teached us something, it's that there is generally a link, some help from a bigger group, at some point, some communication by internet or something.. There was never really any lone wolf here.
If the legislation in USA facilitates lone wolfs, it's indeed part of the problem, but still. I feel like this, if ISIS is behind it, even vaguely, is different than usually in America. There IS a problem with weapon in america, sure, and unfortunatly there are many opportunities to talk about it, but this is about Isis and an international problem here.
Except if he's a mad man with zero connection with anyone. And even like that the ideology is still a problem. I mean i feel like this may (i can be wrong) be part of an other pattern. Not the "america's gun problem" pattern, but a more global one in this case. It seems a little weird that it's all what everyone talks about everywhere.
I don't want to comment on that because that is going open a nasty can of worms. It just doesn't make sense from what I'm reading about the situation.
FUCK
Nope. Fuck this shit.
This is not something I would wanna recieve in an SMS...NEVER.
God, this is horrible.
fierrotlepou
Member
Those texts... Jesus christ.
I'm as tired and broken as Obama was right now. I'm just... done.
RIP to all victims. Fuck this day.
Holy fuck. I'm in tears right now.
Seriously, how can you see this stuff and still cling to your guns?!
How's all this death and lack of regulation worth it for some dumb hobby or the twisted desire of living out an action movie-inspired fantasy?
As another poster said, they did fuck-all after Sandy Hook, and they'll do fuck-all now. Makes me sick.
If this country had a conscience, gun owners would flock give up their weapons and everyone will demand a real solution to this national disgrace.
RIP to all victims. Fuck this day.
FUCK
Holy fuck. I'm in tears right now.
Seriously, how can you see this stuff and still cling to your guns?!
How's all this death and lack of regulation worth it for some dumb hobby or the twisted desire of living out an action movie-inspired fantasy?
As another poster said, they did fuck-all after Sandy Hook, and they'll do fuck-all now. Makes me sick.
If this country had a conscience, gun owners would flock give up their weapons and everyone will demand a real solution to this national disgrace.
What do you consider homophobic? No right for marriage consider homophobic?
Edit: "numerous lbgt friendly mosque"..... I can't recall more than 2 in all of USA ,At least on the news or my network connection
If people on no-fly lists dont have the right have to fly , why in hell are they able to buy a gun? How is the right to a fucking gun something explicitly fabricated with the intent of killing, something no civilian person has a reason to have, a bigger, more defended right than the right to use a mode of transportation.
timetokill
Banned
Because in this country owning a gun is a fundamental right, and getting on a plane isn't.
But TBH the No Fly List is total bullshit and offensive anyway. There's no accountability, no reason needed for you to be on there, and practically no way to get off of it.
Arrogant Bastard
Banned
Yet, we passed the PATRIOT act, waterboarded people, indefinite detention, wiretapping, etc. etc.
Accept it we can and will take away peoples rights so long as it isn't their 2nd amendment, some reason that one has to be secured.
Yeah, I agree, it should be discussed and handled properly. I don't even think the amendment has to be removed or guns banned. I'm just for more regulation. But I ain't even American, so eh
I guess what I'm mostly saying is that arguments like"It's in the constitution"
or
"It's the way this country was founded"
are non-arguments to me. They have as much weight as someone saying the Bible is true because it's the Bible.
Hcoregamer00
The 'H' stands for hentai.
It could just be like San Bernardino where he was inspired by ISIS, and didn't maintain a constant connection.
The problem with Lone Wolf attackers is that they don't need to be in contact constantly, thus they fly under the radar unless surveillance goes full police state. That is the last thing we want, we don't want to turn into a police state.
You can attack this situation through policing, and you can attack it by liming the kind of weaponry they can obtain legally. The liberal side wants more gun control, and the conservative side wants more policing.
timetokill
Banned
I mean, do you think those were good things now?
Or do you just want to violate the Constitution when it suits your political beliefs?
I think all of the above are total bullshit and I don't support any of them. And the 2nd is partly there to have some way to protect yourself from government overrreach like the programs you just listed.
jellies_two
Member
It turned into a hostage situation, it isn't clear how many people he shot before he returned to the club and took hostages. It is clear he shot a lot in the club before anyone really knew what was going on.
You take an assault rifle to any crowded venue without a metal detector and it doesn't matter what situation it turns into, does not matter what the cops do, the death toll could be this high.
F0rneus
Tears in the rain
The 1791 right to bear muskets should have no bearing in the present day where PSYCHOS can run around with assault rifles. Jesus Christ.
Obama even brought this up a couple weeks ago. It's because a huge chunk of Congress is being bribed by the NRA.
The NRA does not speak for all gun owners.
In countries where its very hard to obtain guns legally its much more difficult to obtain guns illegally as well. Look at China which such a large population there is plenty of domestic violence and the manufacturing of firearms is done on a state and government level akin to printing money. The reason why in the United States its is so easy for criminals to buy guns is because we have so much in circulation we can't keep track of them.
You have old weapons that existed before digital catalogizing and even weapons that are considered antique and relics which most people dont both documenting when they transfer them to another party. You have loopholes that allow people to bypass background checks at gunshows for firearm purchases. You have an average of 10 guns for each person in the United States in existence in this country alone.
I really hate it when people make statements like these despite the fact that all of the major mass shootings that media likes to focus on have been committed with LEGALLY bought guns.
Let's not even bring up the situational possibility of the armed civilian argument when in most cases of firearm incidents where there is a innocent bystander with a concealed weapon they have rarely if ever made a difference and in some cases made the situation worse.
Don't worry everyone will change their Facebook photo to add a flag or some shit.
There are numerous LGBT married Muslims in the US. There are a plurality of Imams who officiate such marriages. ISNA supports marriage rights for same sex couples.
The US isn't your community in Pakistan.
At least inspired by ISIS, who have taken credit.
Shooter called 911 ahead of the attack and pledged his allegiance to ISIS; at the very least, he's inspired by ISIS.
It's early to come to any final conclusions. He is lone wolf in the fact he carried out the attack on his own. However there could very well be connections to be found. I mean its already been revealed that his Dad's entire story is debunked and its extremely likely its a household full of radicals as far as ideology.
There is going to need to be a lot looked at. following money to see if any came in or out etc. Who he has been talking to in recent days and more
UberTag
Member
People once used similar arguments to justify keeping women from voting and to endorse slavery.Yeah, I agree, it should be discussed and handled properly. I don't even think the amendment has to be removed or guns banned. I'm just for more regulation. But I ain't even American, so eh
"It's in the constitution"
or
"It's the way this country was founded"
are non-arguments to me. They have as much weight as someone saying the Bible is true because it's the Bible.
LizardKing
Member
Are you American? If not let me explain from the beginning. The American Constitution has something called The Bill of Rights. These rights are considered universal and unable to be revoked for any reason without due process. One of these rights is the right to own a gun along with rights such as freedom of speech, religion, protection from unreasonable searches etc. If you treat one of these rights such as the right to own a gun as revocable without legislation then All Rights spelled out in the Bill of Rights could be revocable without legislation. It would be the single greatest devastating blow to civil liberties in the country's history. These rights can be changed or amended or removed through legislation. A two-thirds majority. The Bill of Rights is the only part of the Constitution that grants Americans civil liberties. It has never been changed. To change it would surely be a huge undertaking.
Brawly Likes to Brawl
Member
Not that bizarre, a lot of people out there hate gays, and I imagine some were incensed by Obama making LGBT Pride month official
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