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[Rudelord]

What would small arms do against drones, tanks, etc.?

A drone operator is still a human, tanks are still operated by humans. Tanks are not good in an asymmetric warfare scenario (which is the scenario.), and need infantry support. A drone operator still has a base of operations as vulnerable as any other. A drone can't even hold a street corner.

There's also the small matter of our armed forces being an all-volunteer organization, and I'm sure the media would love every misdropped bomb on American soil that has some 'collateral damage'.

I think there is a vast difference between taking over this nation or that nation and taking over a nation that has the military, nukes, drones, tanks, etc. that ours has.

Honestly though, I shouldn't have contributed to the derail of this thread so this is a conversation that would be better held in different thread.

A government dropping nukes on their own soil has already lost. So you can just remove that from the equation entirely. Control would be the end objective, not the obliteration and contamination of land.


But yes. you're correct, this isn't the thread for this.

 

[JB1981]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=206622023&postcount=68

Thank you sir. Where's the Trump press release on this guy?

 

[Hours Left]

Absolutely horrifying and senseless.

 

[Stereogatari]

From what I've read, this problem seems less of a religion one and more of a domestic US guy with mental health issues. He has used ISIS as "inspiration" but I see it as in the category of white guys that go on a shooting spree and then claim they're doing it for "Christianity" or whatever, but they aren't actually affiliated to any international terror network or whatever.

That's what has happened here, and the real ISIS will obviously claim him as their own as a propaganda.

 

[jett]

Yep, less than two weeks ago Obama said this at a town hall



http://fusion.net/story/313013/obama-gun-control-perfect-response/

This is unconscionable. I really have no words.

 

[SS4Gogita]

I know this is a "friend of a friend" thing and I'm trying to look for any official word on this, but apparently there was/is also a bomb threat called in to a local Walmart and that there could be potentially another shooting. Please stay safe and stay inside, Orlando-GAF.

 

[timetokill]

You haven't seen it in your lifetime in your region. People all over the world throughout time have seen it happen over and over. It's how America is even where it is now.

You can turn on the news any day now and still see them talking about groups occupying or taking nations.

Clearly those civs haven't researched Combined Arms to get the almighty tank.

No fucker or group of fuckers could take on the government with their Ar 15s, so that statement is extremely outdated.

Take a look at the world around you. Take a look at history.

Honestly though, I shouldn't have contributed to the derail of this thread so this is a conversation that would be better held in different thread.

I know why you don't want to continue, but anyway, hopefully you've got some things to think about.

 

[microdot]

The problem is both. Religion gives people an excuse commit horrible acts. It's not needed for life. Atheist aren't doing this bullshit.

Wut. People would still find reasons regardless if religion existed or not. One could argue that if it wasn't for religion these types of tragedies would be more common throughout history.

 

[Corronchilejano]

Wait, I thought the shooter was a middle eastern... ? Is there more info on the reasons for the shooting?

 

[Dr. Feel Good]

I know this is a "friend of a friend" thing and I'm trying to look for any official word on this, but apparently there was/is also a bomb threat called in to a local Walmart and that there could be potentially another shooting. Please stay safe and stay inside, Orlando-GAF.

Multiple people on Twitter are reporting it.

 

[Arrogant Bastard]

Wait, I thought the shooter was a middle eastern... ? Is there more info on the reasons for the shooting?

His father is from Afghanistan, nothing more than what has already been stated.

 

[devilhawk]

From what I've read, this problem seems less of a religion one and more of a domestic US guy with mental health issues. He has used ISIS as "inspiration" but I see it as in the category of white guys that go on a shooting spree and then claim they're doing it for "Christianity" or whatever, but they aren't actually affiliated to any international terror network or whatever.

That's what has happened here, and the real ISIS will obviously claim him as their own as a propaganda.

His other family members being found as radicalized will distance this from a mental health issue.

 

[Zackat]

Wait, I thought the shooter was a middle eastern... ? Is there more info on the reasons for the shooting?

I actually just found out he went to my high school. He grew up in my area, basically. It's fucking crazy.

 

[Bel Marduk]

People telling people and especially muslims how intolerant (their) Islam is and basically telling if they are tolerant they are not true muslims. Basically what Isis is doing.

Terrorists could not ask for better support.

I'm gay and live in Orlando. Every single person I know who lives in the city I've tried to account for. Every gay person I've seen today I've burst into tears of joy at how happy I am they were still alive. That, I believe, is the point of terrorism.

We were told after the last mass shooting that Islam is a religion of peace.. and the one before that.. and the one before that. Its starting to ring really hollow.

 

[beast786]

Yep, less than two weeks ago Obama said this at a town hall



http://fusion.net/story/313013/obama-gun-control-perfect-response/

Man . Damn

 

[nasax]

CNN reporting that the police arrested some guy who was going to do harm at a gay pride parade in California.

 

[Royal_Phalanx]

Horrible, horrible messed up world we live in. My condolences to all the victims.

My opinion on guns- take a European point of view on them and make all firearms be licensed and need a permit to own. Nothing needs to be 'taken away'. Everyone I know who's a gun owner here (in the UK) is extremely safety conscious and respectful of the kind of power a firearm can have (and they have to be, to even be allowed to own them in the first place). I don't own firearms, only a couple of air pistols, but I can see why they enjoy shooting sports. Target shooting can be pretty enjoyable, if done safely and responsibly. I feel like calls to just 'ban all guns' are extremely illiberal, actually.

 

[Sax1031]

His father is from Afghanistan, nothing more than what has already been stated.

The father of Omar Mateen, identified by police as the man behind the carnage at an Orlando nightclub early Sunday morning, is an Afghan man who holds strong political views, including support for the Afghan Taliban. In a video he posted on Saturday, he appears to be portraying himself as the president of Afghanistan.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-even-tried-to-run-for-the-afghan-presidency/

 

[cirrhosis]

CNN reporting that the police arrested some guy who was going to do harm at a gay pride parade in California.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1232135

 

[emag]

CAIR and other Muslim groups are raising funds for the the victims' families and the survivors on launchgood.

https://www.launchgood.com/project/muslims_united_for_victims_of_pulse_shooting

 

[ItIsOkBro]

That's great except


Canada

"And while a 2013 Pew Research poll found that 80 per cent of Canadians agreed that homosexuality should be accepted by society, only 36 per cent of Muslims agreed with that statement."
http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/politics/grenier-muslim-canadians-environics-1.3551591

England

Forget the rights. They want it illegal

"52% of British Muslims in poll think homosexuality should be illegal"

http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/11/europe/britain-muslims-survey/

There's no way to hand wave it. This kind of stuff leaves me hugely conflicted.

 

[cr0w]

I'm gay and live in Orlando. Every single person I know who lives in the city I've tried to account for. Every gay person I've seen today I've burst into tears of joy at how happy I am they were still alive. That, I believe, is the point of terrorism.

We were told after the last mass shooting that Islam is a religion of peace.. and the one before that.. and the one before that. Its starting to ring really hollow.

I hope everyone you know is safe and sound. I'm thankful that you are. Be safe, and give anyone you can an extra long hug on my behalf.

 

[GK86]

Posted?

The office of Texas Lieutenant Governor Dan Patrick, a Republican and evangelical Christian, on Sunday deleted a tweet many saw as offensive and insensitive that was sent out shortly after the deadly attack on a gay nightclub in Florida.

"Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows," read the Bible verse Patrick sent out on his official Twitter account a few hours after the worst mass shooting in U.S. history that left at least 50 dead.

 

[A Link to the Past]

No exceptions. The right to bear arms shall not be infringed.

In that case, do you find it abhorrent that a small child cannot own a firearm? Or that convicts cannot? If I can think of a single human being who legitimately should not have access to a firearm, shouldn't that mean that this talk of it not being okay to limit the right to bear arms be a bit silly?

At this point, it should be apparent that the right to bear arms is causing too much harm to other rights.

Posted?

He alleged that it was unrelated (I don't think he explained what exactly it was meant to refer to).

Seriously, people like Dan Patrick and Ted Cruz are a political ISIS. That they can get away with saying and doing some of the shit they have said in this society shows that our regard for the lives of LGBT people is so little.

 

[everyday math]

Posted?

Been posted lots of times.

 

[Arrogant Bastard]

Posted?

Yes, it was and it is believed to be a scheduled tweet that just had some horrid timing. Doesn't change much though, the verse in question is rather repugnant.

At this point, it should be apparent that the right to bear arms is causing too much harm to other rights.

That is kinda of the oddity about constitutional rights in general, they aren't absolute. The 2nd amendment itself has been infringed, re-envisioned, elaborated on, etc. countless times. Even the most staunch supporters of it have seemingly accepted the limitations.

 

[GK86]

Ahh ok, thanks fellas.

 

[AnathemicOne]

I seriously doubt when drafting the 2nd Amendment did the Founding Fathers, human beings just like me and you I might add, envisioned a country with people having access to said arms and killing each other en masse on a routine basis as we have today.

I don't give a fucking damn about your hobby if said hobby is one of the main reasons why people have to die nonsensically.

 

[NHarmonic.]

FUCK

This obliterated me, fuck this shit. Fuck every single one that gives shit to LGBT people, that spreads hate and kills innocents, whatever the damn reason is.

This is competely heartbreaking.

 

[BeesEight]

I don't feel so bad for being unavailable for Pride this year.

This is a really terrible event. I'm hoping for you guys in Orlando. This is just awful.

 

[partyphone]

the 2nd amendment was a mistake and needs to be repealed.

 

[Brazil]

FUCK

I've seen some shit, but this hurt me. This hurt me a lot.

 

[Pomerlaw]

Problem is there will still religious zealots or just bat shit crazy people out there for a long time to come.

What are you going to do for this? Americans have to do something about it now, but changing people takes a lot of time. Think easier. think faster. What you can do NOW is make guns much harder to get. Change your culture, and limit guns. Maybe it is not as cute as making everyone happy and cute. But it will make things better.

My thoughts are with you. Lets hope those people won't be dead for nothing, and the future is brighter and safer. Because most people are good people.

 

[LordRaptor]

I seriously doubt when drafting the 2nd Amendment did the Founding Fathers, human beings just like me and you I might add, envisioned a country with people having access to said arms and killing each other en masse on a routine basis as we have today.

Given the context of the second amendment is explicitly talking about "a well regulated militia", it is extremely likely that they were talking about - for example - ensuring The National Guard are armed. And regulated.

e:
And for the vast majority of American History that is exactly how it was interpreted legally.

 

[2MF]

I've seen some shit, but this hurt me. This hurt me a lot.

Yeah, this really put things in a different light for me too. It's so much more striking to read that than "50 people die" which comparably just feels like another statistic/headline.

 

[Royal_Phalanx]

The 'right' to bear arms even in the US isn't a right given that felons are prohibited from owning firearms anyway (and even also prohibited from voting as well). Something being a right would imply all citizens should be entitled to them.

What about other weapons, like airguns, bows, crossbows, knives, swords, slingshots, etc. Should they be banned too because 'nobody really NEEDS a bow, right?' Here in the UK knife crime is a pressing issue. Many thousands die every year to them. Should we ban knives too just because someone might misuse them?

 

[Figboy79]

Sigh. Holy fuck am I sick of this shit.

I try to be reasonable when it comes to gun control. I try to be respectful of the people that love them, and maintain them responsibly, but 50+ people are dead, and this country isn't going to do shit about it. It's infuriating and depressing. At this point, I wouldn't shed a fucking tear if we actually started taking people's guns away. I just don't care enough for people's right to bear arms anymore. Peoples lives are more important. I'm done being respectful and reasonable. This shit is ridiculous and embarrassing.

My heart goes out to the victims and their families. Fucking awful.

 

[MEsoJD]

Wut. People would still find reasons regardless if religion existed or not. One could argue that if it wasn't for religion these types of tragedies would be more common throughout history.

In industrialized society, religion is only a hindrance on our progress. Our morals stem from our survival instinct on a basic level and is molded further by society. Religion has already taken millions throughout history when the scientific method and advancement was still minuscule. We don't need superstition to live or support our fellow man. We are animals that would rather have cooperation than conflict.

Religion still teaches others that homosexuality is bad/immoral. It's bullshit and it's bad for all of us.

 

[LizardKing]

In that case, do you find it abhorrent that a small child cannot own a firearm? Or that convicts cannot? If I can think of a single human being who legitimately should not have access to a firearm, shouldn't that mean that this talk of it not being okay to limit the right to bear arms be a bit silly?

At this point, it should be apparent that the right to bear arms is causing too much harm to other rights.



He alleged that it was unrelated (I don't think he explained what exactly it was meant to refer to).

Seriously, people like Dan Patrick and Ted Cruz are a political ISIS. That they can get away with saying and doing some of the shit they have said in this society shows that our regard for the lives of LGBT people is so little.

Children can own them. I also never said it's not okay to limit the right to bear arms. I said that if people want to do it they have to go through the proper legal channels and change the Bill of Rights, not just pretend they don't exist.

I also don't think convicts civil rights should be taken away, under the current law there is no legal framework for that to exist. That includes the rights to free speech, the right to vote and the right to own a gun. I do however support the Constitution being amended to exempt violent felons from being able to own a gun. I would never support any right being taken away without due process however.

 

[Tarkus]

In industrialized society, religion is only a hindrance on our progress. Our morals stem from our survival instinct on a basic level and is molded further by society. Religion has already taken millions throughout history when the scientific method and advancement was still minuscule. We don't need superstition to live or support our fellow man. We are animals that would rather have cooperation than conflict.

preach.gif

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

The 'right' to bear arms even in the US isn't a right given that felons are prohibited from owning firearms anyway (and even also prohibited from voting as well). Something being a right would imply all citizens should be entitled to them.

What about other weapons, like airguns, bows, crossbows, knives, swords, slingshots, etc. Should they be banned too because 'nobody really NEEDS a bow, right?' Here in the UK knife crime is a pressing issue. Many thousands die every year to them. Should we ban knives too just because someone might misuse them?

This is a lot of words to say "if we can't prevent everything, why do anything?"

 

[Brinbe]

The 'right' to bear arms even in the US isn't a right given that felons are prohibited from owning firearms anyway (and even also prohibited from voting as well). Something being a right would imply all citizens should be entitled to them.

What about other weapons, like airguns, bows, crossbows, knives, swords, slingshots, etc. Should they be banned too because 'nobody really NEEDS a bow, right?' Here in the UK knife crime is a pressing issue. Many thousands die every year to them. Should we ban knives too just because someone might misuse them?

Do you have someone knifing down 50 people dead in a fucking club? Think a little, please.

I was sick when nothing happened after Sandy Hook, and I'll be sick to death when nothing (except more unneeded racism against brown people) gets done. Fuck guns, fuck the NRA, and fuck anyone who still needlessly clings to their guns despite the tragedy of gun culture in America.

 

[Arrogant Bastard]

Children can own them. I also never said it's not okay to limit the right to bear arms. I said that if people want to do it they have to go through the proper legal channels and change the Bill of Rights, not just pretend they don't exist.

No, no we do not. Your constitutional right to bear arms is not absolute; there are limits, restrictions, and prohibitions on that right. We do not need to amend it to add additional restrictions and limitations.

 

[Sapiens]

To be clear, you're asking why we're talking about guns in a situation where a man purchased a gun legally and used it to commit the greatest loss of life from a mass shooting ever?

I know enough about the USA to know that a gun discussion is futile. Oil from water and so on. The US is guns. I know too many responsible gun owners, sorry.

I'd rather talk about the fundamentalist homophone piece of shit who decided it was okay to kill 50 people for no reason. The bigger powder keg is religion.

 

[Staccat0]

The 'right' to bear arms even in the US isn't a right given that felons are prohibited from owning firearms anyway (and even also prohibited from voting as well). Something being a right would imply all citizens should be entitled to them.

What about other weapons, like airguns, bows, crossbows, knives, swords, slingshots, etc. Should they be banned too because 'nobody really NEEDS a bow, right?' Here in the UK knife crime is a pressing issue. Many thousands die every year to them. Should we ban knives too just because someone might misuse them?

It's getting pretty late over in the UK. Maybe hit the hay.

 

[Demoskinos]

FUCK

 

[2MF]

The problem is both. Religion gives people an excuse commit horrible acts. It's not needed for life. Atheist aren't doing this bullshit.

I'm sure atheists could also do it, but here are some facts from the BBC:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-36513658

Worst US mass shootings in last 25 years

At least 50 dead, 2016 - Omar Mateen opens fire on revellers at gay club in Orlando, Florida
32 dead, 2007 - Student Seung-Hui Cho massacres students at Virginia Tech university before killing himself
27 dead, 2012 - Adam Lanza kills 20 six- and seven-year-old children and six adults before killing himself at Sandy Hook, Connecticut
23 dead, 1991 - George Hennard drives through the wall of a cafe in Killeen, Texas, before opening fire and committing suicide
14 dead, 2015 - Syed Rizwan Farook and Tashfeen Malik open fire at a staff gathering in San Bernardino
13 dead, 2009 - Maj Nidal Malik Hasan opens fire at army base in Fort Hood, Texas
13 dead, 2009 - Jiverly Wong shoots people at New York immigrant centre before killing himself
13 dead, 1999 - Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold kill fellow students and a teacher at Columbine High School in Littleton, Colorado

Compare and contrast with the fact that muslims are just 1% of US population. Yet 3 out of 8 of the deadliest shootings of the two last decades were carried out by muslims. Not to mention that small thing that happened a few years ago, what was it called, 9/11? Yeah, I seem to recall that was a bit of a problem too.

And people dare say religion has nothing to do with violence. Pee on my leg and tell me it's raining...

 

[pablito]

That text convo has me in tears

Fuck

 

[Deleted member 30609]

the thing that boggles the mind, and I guess I say one additional thing that boggles the mind about this, is that a single guy had enough ammunition to shoot over 100 people. I just don't understand the mechanics of system that permits someone to obtain a weapon that can do that much damage, and that much ammunition. Fucking ludicrous.

 

[trembli0s]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-even-tried-to-run-for-the-afghan-presidency/

Is the dad for real? You claim religion has no basis as your son's motive for murdering gays and then you actually support a group that espoused some of the most regressive facets of the religion?